Dumb AND Evil

[DudleySmith]

Even sociopaths know there has to be some standards and rules. Doped up dumbass left wingers of course don't have any.

 

[buttercup]

The gradual erosion of virtue in society is perhaps the single most dangerous, consistent, yet unrecognized threat to the whole of Individual liberty in America today.

I couldn't agree more, and I think that's an excellent point that many people don't seem to realize or believe. I think there's a lot more to it than this, but you reminded me of another quote...one I haven't seen posted in a long time. It's by Alexander Tytler, about the cycle of great nations.

There seems to be a few different versions of this quote online, but anyway I'll just post it in image form:

Here's another one with some added commentary.

So far as the original question, I likely have some thoughts on it. The question is do I feel like blowing the keystrokes on sharing them. At the moment? Not really. I don't place forth much effort in these burning questions any more. Not on here anyway. Over the course of my time here I've leaned toward just accepting the effort to be a waste of my time.

I know what you mean. Back when DA was still around, I used to spend a lot of time discussing and debating all sorts of topics, but I haven't done that much on this forum... and as you know I don't post a lot in general, with the exception of a couple topics that interest me. Certainly not politics these days.

 

[buttercup]

No, not until you decide on what your topic is going to be.

It seems that everybody but you has decided to go with the topic of intelligence and morals not being compatible.

According to the world's dictionaries, Wisdom can be used in place of Intelligence in most cases.

Sorry, I'm finished here. I really only wanted to help but now it's completely off track.

We did get a little off topic when some of us started talking about the connection between morality and liberty.

But no, you are simply wrong that intelligence is the same thing as wisdom, so we're not going off topic when talking about wisdom, because wisdom has to do with knowing what is right (versus wrong) and actually applying that knowledge in one's life.

Even the dictionary definition will tell you that:

wisdom​

[ wiz-duhm ]SHOW IPA

---

noun

1. the quality or state of being wise; knowledge of what is true or right coupled with just judgment as to action; sagacity, discernment, or insight.

That said, I go by the biblical definition of wisdom... but for this thread we don't have to go by the biblical definition because like I just showed you, even the dictionary will tell you that wisdom is not the same as intelligence.

 

[Donald H]

We did get a little off topic when some of us started talking about the connection between morality and liberty.

But no, you are simply wrong that intelligence is the same thing as wisdom, so we're not going off topic when talking about wisdom, because wisdom has to do with knowing what is right (versus wrong) and actually applying that knowledge in one's life.

Even the dictionary definition will tell you that:

wisdom​

[ wiz-duhm ]SHOW IPA

---

noun

1. the quality or state of being wise; knowledge of what is true or right coupled with just judgment as to action; sagacity, discernment, or insight.

That said, I go by the biblical definition of wisdom... but for this thread we don't have to go by the biblical definition because like I just showed you, even the dictionary will tell you that wisdom is not the same as intelligence.

Sorry hon but I Expect some minimums and trying to differentiate between wisdom and intelligence for some erroneous reason, doesn't make it.

Just consider yourself right!

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Sorry hon but I Expect some minimums and trying to differentiate between wisdom and intelligence for some erroneous reason, doesn't make it.

Just consider yourself right!

She is right. Without getting into details, I have an extremely intelligent brother who NEVER had to study and he got straight 'A"s. He had so much potential, but he squandered his life more than han I will reveal. He had intelligence but zero wisdom.

The two are COMPLETELY different. Wisdom is better than intelligence

 

[buttercup]

She is right. Without getting into details, I have an extremely intelligent brother who NEVER had to study and he got straight 'A"s. He had so much potential, but he squandered his life more than han I will reveal. He had intelligence but zero wisdom.

The two are COMPLETELY different. Wisdom is better than intelligence

Yep. There are many people like that. When you think about it... ultimately, what good is intelligence if it isn't combined with wisdom and good principles? Some say Hitler was intelligent, but at the end of the day what good was that in his case? This is why I love the book of Proverbs. It's all about true wisdom and how valuable and beneficial it is.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Yep. There are many people like that. When you think about it... ultimately, what good is intelligence if it isn't combined with wisdom and good principles? Some say Hitler was intelligent, but at the end of the day what good was that in his case? This is why I love the book of Proverbs. It's all about true wisdom and how valuable and beneficial it is.

Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: And with all thy getting get understanding. Proverbs 4:7

 

[SaxonJackson]

Is there a correlation between intelligence and morality?

I'm open to being convinced that there is... but as of now, I would say I don't think so.

I’ve known people who are very intelligent, but at the same time have terrible qualities like selfishness, mean-spiritedness, dishonesty, etc.

And I've known many people of average intelligence who have amazing qualities like kindness, generosity, honesty, etc.

I think it boils down to the fact that intelligence and wisdom are two different things. People can be intelligent and unwise. To me, wisdom is infinitely more important.

What’s really sad is when someone is both dumb AND evil. I can think of some people like that. (no names mentioned.)

But anyway, getting back to the main question here, would you agree that there’s no actual correlation between intelligence and morality/ethics? If you disagree, please change my mind.

I think there IS a correlation between intelligence and morality (or even the lack, thereof). A truly intelligent person will see the benefits of living a moral life. Conversely, there are intelligent folks who've purposely chosen to live immoral lives in trade for sensual pleasure.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I think there IS a correlation between intelligence and morality (or even the lack, thereof). A truly intelligent person will see the benefits of living a moral life. Conversely, there are intelligent folks who've purposely chosen to live immoral lives in trade for sensual pleasure.

You realize you just contradicted yourself.

You're confusing wisdom with intelligence.

Intelligent people CAN be immoral. I know many.

A WISE person is not.

 

[SaxonJackson]

You realize you just contradicted yourself.

You're confusing wisdom with intelligence.

Intelligent people CAN be immoral. I know many.

A WISE person is not.

I did realize that it could appear that way. However, I think intelligent people understand morality and the choices that can be made surrounding it. Dumb people are more apt to act out of impulse and basic instinct. So I still believe that there's a correlation between intelligence and morality.

 

[jackflash]

Is there a correlation between intelligence and morality?

I'm open to being convinced that there is... but as of now, I would say I don't think so.

I’ve known people who are very intelligent, but at the same time have terrible qualities like selfishness, mean-spiritedness, dishonesty, etc.

And I've known many people of average intelligence who have amazing qualities like kindness, generosity, honesty, etc.

I think it boils down to the fact that intelligence and wisdom are two different things. People can be intelligent and unwise. To me, wisdom is infinitely more important.

What’s really sad is when someone is both dumb AND evil. I can think of some people like that. (no names mentioned.)

But anyway, getting back to the main question here, would you agree that there’s no actual correlation between intelligence and morality/ethics? If you disagree, please change my mind.

I agree with you buttercup as I see no connection between overall intelligence equating to either morality or ethics. As an example we can examine a former dictator named Adolf Hitler. In Adolf's early adult years he was just another face in the crowd;

A young Hitler cheers the start of World War One, 1914 - Rare Historical Photos

The caption on the picture reads: “Adolf Hitler, the German patriot in the middle of the crowd stands with blazing eyes". The Declaration of War, 1914.

rarehistoricalphotos.com

Adolf Hitler managed to take control of the Nazi party/National socialist German Workers Party(sound a little commie?!) then managed to land the SA Sturmabteilung Braunhemden(Storm Detachment Brown Shirts) as the main body of the Nazi movement. All of the above were accomplished in just a few short years by the early 1920's. By 1933 Hitler landed the chancellor position of Germany & then by emergency decree became dictator of Germany. By February of 1943 Hitler's 6th army stood on the Volga river, gateway to Asia. Was Hitler intelligent? I'd say so BUT in a manipulative & very evil way. Adolf Hitler is almost entirely remembered for the evil acts he had perpetrated against humanity.

As can be seen from the above information, intelligence bears no connection what so ever with morality/ethics. Below is a good read about the difference between "morality vs. ethics".

Difference Between Ethics and Morality - GeeksforGeeks

A Computer Science portal for geeks. It contains well written, well thought and well explained computer science and programming articles, quizzes and practice/competitive programming/company interview Questions.

www.geeksforgeeks.org

 

[zaangalewa]

I agree with you buttercup as I see no connection between overall intelligence equating to either morality or ethics. As an example we can examine a former dictator named Adolf Hitler. In Adolf's early adult years he was just another face in the crowd;

A young Hitler cheers the start of World War One, 1914 - Rare Historical Photos

The caption on the picture reads: “Adolf Hitler, the German patriot in the middle of the crowd stands with blazing eyes". The Declaration of War, 1914.

rarehistoricalphotos.com

Adolf Hitler managed to take control of the Nazi party/National socialist German Workers Party(sound a little commie?!)

The Commies had been organized in the KPD = Kummunistische Partei Deutschlands. Hitler transformed the totally succesless political party DAP into the NSDAP. "National-socialistic"-DAP. National =right wring, socialistic =left wing. Pragmatism zto do so - that's all.
Why he did not directly found an own party but overtook an existing one? I guess perhaps for to found an own political party he had neeeded to be a citizen of Germany.

then managed to land the SA Sturmabteilung Braunhemden(Storm Detachment Brown Shirts) as the main body of the Nazi movement.

A goon squad. The boys got an excellent uniform - while Hitler on his own was very poor.

All of the above were accomplished in just a few short years by the early 1920's. By 1933 Hitler landed the chancellor position of Germany & then by emergency decree became dictator of Germany.

You miss the step that he became president of Germany. The president was the head of the state in the republic of Weimar. President Hindenburg - an old man - did do him the favor to die. No one ever tried to find out whether this had been a murder or not.

By February of 1943 Hitler's 6th army stood on the Volga river, gateway to Asia. Was Hitler intelligent?

For an idiot like him? He suffered for sure an astronomic arrogance and hubris.

I'd say so BUT in a manipulative & very evil way. Adolf Hitler is almost entirely remembered for the evil acts he had perpetrated against humanity.

As can be seen from the above information, intelligence bears no connection what so ever with morality/ethics. Below is a good read about the difference between "morality vs. ethics".

Difference Between Ethics and Morality - GeeksforGeeks

A Computer Science portal for geeks. It contains well written, well thought and well explained computer science and programming articles, quizzes and practice/competitive programming/company interview Questions.

www.geeksforgeeks.org

Hitler was a moralist. He used a simple darwinistic moral = "The strong will survive, the weak will die." It is said one of his very last sentences had been "The German people are not worthy of me". For me shows this sentence his character very clear - whether he really said so or not. ... Oh by the way: How "intelligent" is a character?

 

[zaangalewa]

No, intelligence and wisdom aren't two different things

This are totally different things. Wisdom is the ability to use intelligence in a senseful way. Take the example of the judge Salomon who said to the "two mothers" of the baby he will cut it into two pieces and give everyone 50% of the baby. One of the mothers agreed the other mother said: "Give the child to her". Salomon gave the baby to the mother who said so because this answer showed she is the real mother.

Does anyone know now who is really the biological mother? No! Indeed no one knows this! But nevertheless she is the real mother. The answer for this is not able to be found in logic - it is only able to be found in a living heart. Perhaps formally Salomon made a mistake and gave the baby to the "wrong" biological mother. Not very intelligent! But indeed he gave the baby to the right mother who loved the baby. Very wise!

 

[Donald H]

This are totally different things. Wisdom is the ability to use intelligence in a senseful way. Take the example of the judge Salomon who said to the "two mothers" of the baby he will cut it into two pieces and give everyone 50% of the baby. One of the mothers agreed the other mother said: "Give the child to her". Salomon gave the baby to the mother who said so because this answer showed she is the real mother.

Does anyone know now who is really the biological mother? No! Indeed no one knows this! But nevertheless she is the real mother. The answer for this is not able to be found in logic - it is only able to be found in a living heart. Perhaps formally Salomon made a mistake and gave the baby to the "wrong" biological mother. Not very intelligent! But indeed he gave the baby to the right mother who loved the baby. Very wise!

One of them must have been a pretty F-U mutha!

 

[zaangalewa]

One of them must have been a pretty F-U mutha!

Hmm .... looks like someone seperated you into two parts - a human part and an English part. But where's the human part?

 

[Mindful]

Hmm .... looks like someone seperated you into two parts - a human part and an English part. But where's the human part?

And then there’s the German part. Which you aspire to be.

 

[zaangalewa]

And then there’s the German part. Which you aspire to be.

The German word for German means nearly the same like "united". So there is no German part. Hitler separated Germans into Jews and Aryans - the USA seperated atoms into energy and material elements. And both remembers me in the context where this had happened to the message of the bible not to try to separate what god connected with each other.

 

[Mindful]

The German word for German means nearly the same like "united". So there is no German part. Hitler separated Germans into Jews and Aryans - the USA seperated atoms into energy and material elements. And both remembers me in the context where this had happened to the message of the bible not to try to separate what god connected with each other.

How uninteresting.

 

[zaangalewa]

How uninteresting.

Facts and knowledge are always uninteresting for lazybones and idiots.

 

[The Duke]

Is there a correlation between intelligence and morality?

I'm open to being convinced that there is... but as of now, I would say I don't think so.

I’ve known people who are very intelligent, but at the same time have terrible qualities like selfishness, mean-spiritedness, dishonesty, etc.

And I've known many people of average intelligence who have amazing qualities like kindness, generosity, honesty, etc.

I think it boils down to the fact that intelligence and wisdom are two different things. People can be intelligent and unwise. To me, wisdom is infinitely more important.

What’s really sad is when someone is both dumb AND evil. I can think of some people like that. (no names mentioned.)

But anyway, getting back to the main question here, would you agree that there’s no actual correlation between intelligence and morality/ethics? If you disagree, please change my mind.

Intelligence is not related to how good or even wise a person is.

A lot can be learned from people of average intelligence that are wise.

That being said, the dude with the highest IQ believes in God, so there's that.