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[freeandfun1]

Anti-Kerry Vietnam Veterans Hold Strong

The following statement from Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is in response to an article appearing in the morning edition of the Boston Globe (“Veteran Retracts Criticism of Kerry”) which implies that one Vietnam Veteran wishes to retract an affidavit he signed regarding John Kerry’s actions during and after Kerry’s time in Vietnam. The signed affidavit can be seen below.

"Captain George Elliott describes an article appearing in today’s edition of the Boston Globe by Mike Kranish as extremely inaccurate and highly misstating his actual views. He reaffirms his statement in the current advertisement paid for by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, Captain Elliott reaffirms his affidavit [see below] in support of that advertisement, and he reaffirms his request that the ad be played.

“Additional documentation will follow. “The article by Mr. Kranish is particularly surprising given page 102 of Mr. Kranish’s own book quoting John Kerry as acknowledging that he killed a single, wounded, fleeing Viet Cong soldier whom he was afraid would turn around.

“Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has more than 250 supporters who are revealing first hand, eyewitness accounts of numerous incidents concerning John Kerry’s military service record. The organization will continue to discuss much of what John Kerry has reported as fact concerning his four-month tour of duty in Vietnam.”

BOSTON GLOBE 'REPORTER' COMMISSIONED TO WRITE CAMPAIGN BOOK FOREWORD -- WHILE COVERING KERRY

BOSTON GLOBE journalist Mike Kranish has been commissioned to write the foreword of the Kerry-Edwards campaign book -- just as he is covering the campaign in an official capacity as a journalist for the BOSTON GLOBE!

Kranish made waves on Friday by reporting in the GLOBE how a key figure in the anti-Kerry vet ad campaign, Kerry's former commanding officer, "backed off one of the key contentions."

But Captain George Elliott claims the Kranish article is "extremely inaccurate" and highly misstated his actual views.

[TV Station WTVG 13-ABC, Toledo, Ohio dropped the anti-Kerry vet ad on Friday after the Kerry campaign used the GLOBE/Kranish story to convince the station's management the ad was false.]

Developing...

 

[smirkinjesus]

Anti-Kerry Vietnam Veterans Hold Strong

Good Grief. Give it up already. "Anti-Kerry Vietnam Vetrans"? If you're a Vietnam Vetran, and you support a guy who didn't serve over a guy who fought and risked his life in the same War you fought.....well, I can have no respect for them. As tough a time as those vetrans had coming home from that war, then to turn on one of their own in favor of a guy who didn't fight at all? Shameful, screw that. Vietnam vets have the right to support anyone they want, but demonizing one of their own is loathesome.

 

[jimnyc]

but demonizing one of their own is loathesome.

Like Kerry did when he spoke out upon his return? Except it wasn't just one man he was speaking of, but rather a great deal of the military.

 

[smirkinjesus]

Like Kerry did when he spoke out upon his return? Except it wasn't just one man he was speaking of, but rather a great deal of the military.

You mean when he said this:

"How do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Vietnam?" Kerry asked. "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?" Attacking the Nixon White House, he said, "This administration has done us the ultimate dishonor. They have attempted to disown us and the sacrifices we made for this country."

Almost forgotten in that famous speech were Kerry's controversial assertions that Vietnam veterans had "personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephone to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country."


Yes, You're right, he did say those things. Are they true? Possibly, I don't know.

 

[jimnyc]

Yes, You're right, he did say those things. Are they true? Possibly, I don't know.

So you're defending a man that you openly admit could be lying to the nation and congress when he testified? You're right, it was loathsome what was said, but it was Kerry doing the speaking. Whether he turned on his own brothers in arms or lied to congress is irrelevant.

 

[smirkinjesus]

So you're defending a man that you openly admit could be lying to the nation and congress when he testified? You're right, it was loathsome what was said, but it was Kerry doing the speaking. Whether he turned on his own brothers in arms or lied to congress is irrelevant.

It's what he said at his Senate meeting. I imagine those things probably happened in Vietnam. And lets not forget the context of those times, the hearing took place only three weeks after William Calley was convicted for the My Lai incident. The country at that time was violently opposed to the war. Was it wrong for him to give his view of the war because it made the military look bad? He spoke powerfully at that hearing and Nixon & crew initiated a smear campaign against him at that time. The remnants of that campaign are still with us in the smut the right-wing is latching onto today in the month's before the election.
The man fought in an unpopular war at a complicated time and he came home and lambasted the Nixon Administration. You want to say that should be a factor in whether or not Vietnam Vets or any of us support him? The man fought hard, and fought brave. He came home and protested the war briefly. If anyone had a right to do so, he did.

 

[jimnyc]

The man fought in an unpopular war at a complicated time and he came home and lambasted the Nixon Administration.

AND his fellow soldiers, let's not forget that point.

You're condemning the veterans who are speaking out against Kerry, and that's exactly what he did himself to them. Now he's running for president and using his war background as a selling point for his qualifications. You say they are turning on one of their own, but please don't forget that 'one of their own' turned on them first.

 

[smirkinjesus]

AND his fellow soldiers, let's not forget that point.

You're condemning the veterans who are speaking out against Kerry, and that's exactly what he did himself to them. Now he's running for president and using his war background as a selling point for his qualifications. You say they are turning on one of their own, but please don't forget that 'one of their own' turned on them first.

He condemned rape, cutting off ears, beheadings, electric torture, dismemberment, mutilation, random killing of civilians, burning villages, killing animals for fun and poisoning food stocks. Should he have just kept his mouth shut about the atrocities he witnessed? If you had seen those things, would you have kept quiet? If he lied and none of those things happened, then sure Vietnam Vets have every right to be offended. If those things did happen, and you know as well as I do that they did, then shame on those vets for Condemning him for speaking the truth.

 

[dilloduck]

He condemned rape, cutting off ears, beheadings, electric torture, dismemberment, mutilation, random killing of civilians, burning villages, killing animals for fun and poisoning food stocks. Should he have just kept his mouth shut about the atrocities he witnessed? If you had seen those things, would you have kept quiet? If he lied and none of those things happened, then sure Vietnam Vets have every right to be offended. If those things did happen, and you know as well as I do that they did, then shame on those vets for Condemning him for speaking the truth.

He didn't witness any of this. Thats the problem. He was fed this info to act as an anti-war protestor to further his political career.

 

[smirkinjesus]

He didn't witness any of this. Thats the problem. He was fed this info to act as an anti-war protestor to further his political career.

In the Oval Office, President Nixon delivered a backhanded compliment to Kerry, whom he distinguished from the other "bearded weirdos."

.............................................Nixon Tapes.......................................
The "real star" of the hearing was Kerry, Nixon told chief of staff H. R. "Bob" Haldeman and national security adviser Henry Kissinger the day after Kerry testified, according to the secretly taped White House recordings.

"He did a hell of a great job," Haldeman said.

"He was extremely effective," Nixon agreed.

"He did a superb job on it at Foreign Relations Committee yesterday," Haldeman said. "A Kennedy-type guy, he looks like a Kennedy, and he, he talks exactly like a Kennedy."

"Where did he serve?" Nixon asked.

"He was a Navy lieutenant, j.g., on a gunboat, and he used to run his gunboat up and shoot at, shoot babies out of women's arms," Haldeman said. (A member of Kerry's crew had shot and killed a Vietnamese child in an episode that occurred in a "free-fire zone," according to Kerry, but it is not clear whether Haldeman knew about the matter or was being jocular.)

"Oh, stop that," Nixon said. "People in the Navy don't do things [like that.]" With apparent sarcasm, Nixon turned to Kissinger, who assured him a naval officer would not shoot babies out of women's arms. But there was a seriousness to the statement as well; just three weeks earlier, a jury had convicted Lieutenant William Calley of killing 22 civilians in what became known as the My Lai massacre. Just days earlier, Nixon had ordered Calley released pending his appeal. The case had been more fuel for the antiwar movement.

Nixon seemed particularly incredulous that Kerry had won so many medals. "Bob, the Navy didn't have any casualties in Vietnam except in the air," Nixon told Haldeman, showing either a disregard for the high casualty rate of swift boat sailors or an extraordinary lack of knowledge about what had really happened during the war he oversaw as commander in chief.

The White House staff decided it needed to dig up dirt on Kerry, or at least undermine his effort. Three days later, Haldeman arrived in the Oval Office and announced to the president: "We've got some interesting dope on Kerry."

Nixon was interested.

"Kerry, it turns out, some time ago decided he wanted to get into politics," Haldeman said. "Well, he ran for, took a stab at the congressional thing. And he consulted with some of the folks in the Georgetown set here. So what, what the issue, what, he'd like to get an issue. He wanted a horse to ride."

The tape recording inexplicably ends at this point.


.............continued............
The White House found a better way to go after Kerry. Colson had seen a press conference featuring a young Navy veteran named John O'Neill, who served in the same swift boat division as Kerry shortly after Kerry left Vietnam. O'Neill, like many swift boat veterans, was outraged at Kerry's claim of US atrocities.


In short order, O'Neill became the centerpiece of the Nixon White House strategy to undermine Kerry. O'Neill, now a Texas lawyer, stresses that he did not receive any payment from the White House and was acting on his own because he thought Kerry's statements were unconscionable lies.


For weeks, Colson had been accusing Kerry of ducking a debate with O'Neill. On June 15, Colson wrote to another White House aide: "I think we have Kerry on the run, he is beginning to take a tremendous beating in the press, but let's not let him up, let's destroy this young demagogue before he becomes another Ralph Nader. Let's try to move through as many sources as we can the fact that he has refused to meet in debate, even though he agreed to do so and announced to the press he would."


The next day, O'Neill arrived at the White House to meet with Nixon. The two men bonded; a brief "grip and grin" session turned into an hourlong meeting, with Nixon bucking up O'Neill for the fight against Kerry.

Later as mentioned before on this board, they debated on "The Dick Cavett Show."

 

[musicman]

smirkinjesus:

Excuse me for butting in, but let me see if I've got this straight. John Kerry wasn't betraying his brothers-in-arms - he was lambasting the Nixon administration. Wow...even then - playing politics, and the safety of U.S. soldiers be damned. At least he came by his current tactics honestly. I guess that all U.S. soldiers became murderers and rapists the day LBJ left office.

I don't KNOW those things happened, any more than you do. I don't happen to subscribe to the Gospel According to Oliver Stone. What I DO know is that a lot of Americans died over there who might not have - had their efforts not been undermined, and their enemies emboldened, by the likes of Jane Fonda and John Kerry.

 

[adamsimpire]

I recently got some news on Kerry's service in vietnam. Now, I know how all the liberal left in America is raving about how John Kerry is some sort of war hero, and don't get me wrong here (I appriciate his service), but he's no hero.

His tour of duty was EIGHTEEN MONTHS and he served only FOUR until he requested to be brought back home, and then became one of the main protesters of the war.

Now my biggest question is how he got a purple heart when he doesn't seem to have a scratch on him. Yet some guys get their legs blown off after 14 months of service and only get 1 purple heart.

Any answers?

 

[dmp]

Any answers?

No.

 

[tpahl]

I recently got some news on Kerry's service in vietnam. Now, I know how all the liberal left in America is raving about how John Kerry is some sort of war hero, and don't get me wrong here (I appriciate his service), but he's no hero.

His tour of duty was EIGHTEEN MONTHS and he served only FOUR until he requested to be brought back home, and then became one of the main protesters of the war.

Now my biggest question is how he got a purple heart when he doesn't seem to have a scratch on him. Yet some guys get their legs blown off after 14 months of service and only get 1 purple heart.

Any answers?

Other than being a a rich connected person, no i do not have any answers. I do have another question though...

Does anyone think that purple hearts or other brave military experience is a big qualification for the presidency? If so why?

I see it as a qualification for promotions within the military, or for a job as a fireman or police officer, but I do not see how it makes a person a better candidate to be president. It does show something about their character I suppose, but their bravery in battle just does not seem like a hugely important trait to me when considering a president compared to other things such as their policy.

 

[Mr. P]

Sure, he's a slime ball that wants you to think he's the saviour of America!
Problem is he ain't, he's just a liberal politician. You know the type, say and do whatever
they have to to be elected. Ha! Like Mr. Heinz needs the job.

I hear Olie North turned down hearts so he could stay with his guys and not be sent home.
I have no links or references for that...but if true, there's a HERO!

*as well as the other liget medal winners...all Heros in my book.*

 

[tpahl]

Sure, he's a slime ball that wants you to think he's the saviour of America!
Problem is he ain't, he's just a liberal politician. You know the type, say and do whatever
they have to to be elected. Ha! Like Mr. Heinz needs the job.

It is kinda funny, the above could be just as true if you substituted the word Heinz with Bush.

Travis

 

[5stringJeff]

It is kinda funny, the above could be just as true if you substituted the word Heinz with Bush.

Travis

*yawn*

You know, you are quickly becoming a one-post kind of poster. It's almost like I could put you on ignore because I know most of your posts are going to be along the lines of "Bush is a liberal, vote for Badnarik."

 

[Mr. P]

It is kinda funny, the above could be just as true if you substituted the word Heinz with Bush.

Travis

Really? Bush married a millionaire divorced her and then married a Billionaire?

Whooooooooo...I didn't know that.

 

[tpahl]

Really? Bush married a millionaire divorced her and then married a Billionaire?

Whooooooooo...I didn't know that.

No. he didn't. And it also is not in the 'above' that I quoted.

Travis

 

[tpahl]

*yawn*

You know, you are quickly becoming a one-post kind of poster. It's almost like I could put you on ignore because I know most of your posts are going to be along the lines of "Bush is a liberal, vote for Badnarik."

That is because on most issues, bush is a liberal and it would be better to vote for Badnarik in my opinion.

but there are also quite a few posts where I discuss how Kerry is not anti war like his supporters claim.