Dr. Robert P. Jones on What White Christians Have Wrought in American Politics

[Papageorgio]

I never said I was not tribal . You are a liar.

And another attack!

 

[ding]

I recognize and organize the posts. With links to each one. Saint Papageorgio keeping him.

The fact that I did not on display inconvenience for you to check.

But you won’t chat you think check-in is goofy

My opinion is that you prefer bullshit to facts

You see yourself in the most favorable light possible and you see others who do not share the same beliefs as you in the worst light possible.

You are on my short list of list favorable people to discuss anything with.

 

[ding]

I never said I was not tribal . You are a liar.

Great. Now tell me something you disagree with your tribe about.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

That you don't see that you are tribal is hilarious to me. Your tribe is the Democratic Party.

I never said I was not tribal . You are a liar.

What's my tribe?

first off you lied. I never said I wasn’t tribal. Why did you lie?

as to what is your tribe Saint Ding.

It’s the tribe that wants to deny privacy to women when they get pregnant.

It is your White Christian nationalism.

I am a Jeffersonian voter and you are an anti-Jeffersonian voter who forsakes individual liberty for religious conformity. otherwise: a Saintly Voter.

You can read about it here:


100 34. “The struggle between two contending images of America has been a constant of our history. From the beginning, many Americans, unhappy with a Constitution that was undeniably secular, defined the United States as a Christian nation. They believed that the civil order and spiritual order are interrelated and interdependent; that if Christianity is the true faith, those who deny it are wrong and misguided; that non-Christians should be tolerated but that government, to be strong and virtuous and moral, must be allied with the religion of the majority.” Morton Borden is a professor of history at the University of California, Santa Barbara, and author of Jews, Turks, and Infidels (University of North Carolina Press, 1984).

The above is a perfect description of Trump Christians, who hold the main source of truth to be the Holy Bible. Many times literally..

Papageorgio said: More trolling by a race baiter.

i. Papageorgio cxxxi. to 128: More nonsense and trolling by our resident troll, nothing to say, but he speaks anyway. ppgrg 241221 Sdrpjo00131

ii. NotfooledbyW cxxxii. to 131. : I can’t force intellectual curiosity on you, Saint Papageorgio.. Either you have it or you don’t. nfbw 241221 Sprgio00132

iii. Papageorgio cxxxiii. to 132. : More trolling by a race baiter. ppgrg 2312332 Sprgio00133

iv. NotfooledbyW cxxxiv. to 133. : I am trying to have a civil conversation with Saint Papageorgio regarding the established and consistent curse of racially inspired divisions that are driven by what’s called keeping the “Christian Biblical Worldview” in politics.

Indeed, the title of this thread is “ Dr. Robert P. Jones on What White Christians Have Wrought in American Politics.” indeed I have introduced some posts from the thread that I started on this topic titled “What did Iowa's evangelicals do?”

For that, all I get is insults from Saint Papageorgio calling me a troll and a race baiter.

My contribution here, is supportive of Dr. Robert P Jones and his work that has been cited in this thread by the OP. I think it is important to understanding where we are politically on the issue of race and religion in the lives of working class Americans.

I also want to discuss the way the global oligarchy of billionaires impacts the racial division in politics due in part to the religion of Judeo-Christianity

….. for that, I am called a troll and a race baiter. wtf is all I can say as I will continue to discuss this topic because it is important.

There is another rational thinker on this topic who I shall introduce here with an excerpt about the most American human source of religious liberty and freedom of conscience that we as Americans of all races and religions and non-religions are supposed to enjoy.

Morton Borden is a professor of history at the University of California, Santa Barbara, and author of Jews, Turks, and Infidels (University of North Carolina Press, 1984). nfbw 241221 Vdrpjo00134

Faith of Our Founders

Jefferson's view of religious freedom, some of his contemporaries complained, exalted individual freedom at the expense of majority rights. Indeed it did, and still does, since Jefferson opposed all tyrannies, of monarchs as well as of majorities. He considered his authorship of the Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom as memorable and significant as the Declaration of Independence.

But there have been many throughout American history, to this day, who have been unable to accept either Jefferson's ideas on religious freedom or his motives. The Virginia Statute, in fact, one rather typical critic contended, denigrated Christianity. It amounted to "an alliance between the civil authority and infidelity.

Secularism has been, a recent scholar concludes, "one of Jefferson's richest legacies to democracy." Those on the religious right today cannot conceive of republicanism functioning successfully without a Christian foundation.

Like their 19th-century predecessors, they point to current national problems as proof and rely on psychological stress to attract support. They are as zealous as they are indefatigable, for they believe it is the Lord's work.

v. NotfooledbyW cxxxiv. to 133. : That last sentence ….

(white Christians with a fundamentally strict biblical worldview.) are as zealous as they are indefatigable, for they believe it is the Lord's work.”.

I believe when understood in the context of the full piece, (White Christian Nationalism) contributes heavily to the current dysfunction of our democracy from a purely working class point of view.

if you think there is no validity to my observation, please make an argument if you can, Saint Papageorgio. nfbw 241221 Vdrpjo00134

 

[ding]

first off you lied. I never said I wasn’t tribal.

Why did you lie?

I didn't lie. That's what it seemed like what you were implying. I'm glad you acknowledged your tribalism but am a little confused by why you would think other people's tribalism is bad when you yourself are tribalistic.

 

[ding]

as to what is your tribe Saint Ding.

It’s the tribe that wants to deny privacy to women when they get pregnant.

White Christian nationalism.

How many times have I replied to your saint ding dig with I am not a saint? Every time, right? And yet you continue to do it, right? So not only do I find it insulting that you think I think I am a saint, I find that it confirms what Papageorgio has been saying about your use of insults. I also find that your repeated use of your saint ding dig despite my objections is a sign that you habitually use insults in your posts. This goes to my point about how you are the one who sees himself as better than others. You see yourself as better than you are. You see others as worse than they are. YOU are the one who thinks he is a saint.

I don't belong to the white Christian nationalist tribe. So YOU are lying. Why are you lying about me? Maybe this is something we should discuss in the bull ring.

 

[ding]

I am at Jeffersonian voter and you are an anti-Jeffersonian voter who for six individual liberty for religious conformity. otherwise: a Saintly Voter.

I believe we have already established that you believe you are a saint.

 

[ding]

The above is a perfect description of Trump Christians, who hold the main source of truth to be the Holy Bible. Many times literally..

Couldn't care less. I'm not a Trump Christian or a White Nationalist Christian.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

I don't belong to the white Christian nationalist tribe. So YOU are lying.

there is nothing to be belong to. it is a state of mind which includes wanting to restrict the liberty of a woman when she becomes pregnant.

White Christian nationalism is a political force, and your political positions are aligned with it.

you are a conduit for Catholic anti-abortion propaganda with pedes the voting power of the Republican Party and its white Christian nationalist agenda.


nevertheless, I want to talk about the following instead of “formatting“ and who’s tribal and who’s not tribal blah blah blah. Boring as shit bulkshit

Morton Borden is a professor of history at the University of California, Santa Barbara, and author of Jews, Turks, and Infidels (University of North Carolina Press, 1984). nfbw 241221 Vdrpjo00134

Faith of Our Founders

Jefferson's view of religious freedom, some of his contemporaries complained, exalted individual freedom at the expense of majority rights. Indeed it did, and still does, since Jefferson opposed all tyrannies, of monarchs as well as of majorities. He considered his authorship of the Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom as memorable and significant as the Declaration of Independence.

But there have been many throughout American history, to this day, who have been unable to accept either Jefferson's ideas on religious freedom or his motives. The Virginia Statute, in fact, one rather typical critic contended, denigrated Christianity. It amounted to "an alliance between the civil authority and infidelity.

Secularism has been, a recent scholar concludes, "one of Jefferson's richest legacies to democracy." Those on the religious right today cannot conceive of republicanism functioning successfully without a Christian foundation.

Like their 19th-century predecessors, they point to current national problems as proof and rely on psychological stress to attract support. They are as zealous as they are indefatigable, for they believe it is the Lord's work.

v. NotfooledbyW cxxxiv. to 133. : That last sentence ….

(white Christians with a fundamentally strict biblical worldview.) are as zealous as they are indefatigable, for they believe it is the Lord's work.”.

I believe when understood in the context of the full piece, (White Christian Nationalism) contributes heavily to the current dysfunction of our democracy from a purely working class point of view.

if you think there is no validity to my observation, please make an argument if you can, Saint Papageorgio. nfbw 241221 Vdrpjo00134

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Couldn't care less. I'm not a Trump Christian or a White Nationalist Christian.

I didn’t say you are. You have their state of mind quite intact.

 

[ding]

More trolling by a race baiter. Indeed, the title of this thread is “ Dr. Robert P. Jones on What White Christians Have Wrought in American Politics.” indeed I have introduced some post from the thread that I started on this topic titled “What did Iowa's evangelicals do?” For that, all I get is insults from Saint Papageorgio calling me a troll and a race baiter. My contribution here, is supportive of Dr. Robert P Jones and his work that has been cited in this thread by the OP. I think it is important to understanding where we are politically on the issue of race and religion in the lives of working class Americans. I also want to discuss the way the global oligarchy of billionaires impacts the racial division in politics due in part to the religion of Judeo-Christianity ….. for that, I am called a troll and a race baiter. wtf is all I can say as I will continue to discuss this topic because it is important. There is another rational thinker on this topic who I shall introduce here with an excerpt about the most American human source of religious liberty and freedom of conscience that we as Americans of all races and religions and non-religions are supposed to enjoy. Morton Borden is a professor of history at the University of California, Santa Barbara, and author of Jews, Turks, and Infidels (University of North Carolina Press, 1984). Jefferson's view of religious freedom, some of his contemporaries complained, exalted individual freedom at the expense of majority rights. Indeed it did, and still does, since Jefferson opposed all tyrannies, of monarchs as well as of majorities. He considered his authorship of the Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom as memorable and significant as the Declaration of Independence. But there have been many throughout American history, to this day, who have been unable to accept either Jefferson's ideas on religious freedom or his motives. The Virginia Statute, in fact, one rather typical critic contended, denigrated Christianity. It amounted to "an alliance between the civil authority and infidelity. Secularism has been, a recent scholar concludes, "one of Jefferson's richest legacies to democracy." Those on the religious right today cannot conceive of republicanism functioning successfully without a Christian foundation. Like their 19th-century predecessors, they point to current national problems as proof and rely on psychological stress to attract support. They are as zealous as they are indefatigable, for they believe it is the Lord's work. That last sentence …. (white Christians with a fundamentally strict biblical worldview.) are as zealous as they are indefatigable, for they believe it is the Lord's work.”. I believe when understood in the context of the full piece, contributes heavily to the current dysfunction of our democracy from a purely working class point of view. if you think there is no validity to my observation, please make an argument if you can, Saint Papageorgio.

This is from the last post you made. I already responded to the first part of the post, but I wanted to show you what you wrote in one long passage. It's a lot to unpack. Your post was really disjointed and rambling. So here goes...

I don't care what Dr. Robert P. Jones wrote or said. I'm not interested in it in the slightest. You brought me to this thread with your idiotic saint ding dig.

I don't believe Papageorgio is a racist. I believe YOU are the racist. I find you to be a troll. I find your behaviors appalling.

 

[ding]

there is nothing to be belong to. it is a state of mind which includes wanting to restrict the liberty of a woman when she becomes pregnant.

White Christian nationalism is a political force, and your political positions are aligned with it.

you are a conduit for Catholic anti-abortion propaganda with pedes the voting power of the Republican Party and its white Christian nationalist agenda.


nevertheless, I want to talk about the following instead of “formatting“ and who’s tribal and who’s not tribal blah blah blah. Boring as shit bulkshit

Morton Borden is a professor of history at the University of California, Santa Barbara, and author of Jews, Turks, and Infidels (University of North Carolina Press, 1984). nfbw 241221 Vdrpjo00134

Faith of Our Founders

Jefferson's view of religious freedom, some of his contemporaries complained, exalted individual freedom at the expense of majority rights. Indeed it did, and still does, since Jefferson opposed all tyrannies, of monarchs as well as of majorities. He considered his authorship of the Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom as memorable and significant as the Declaration of Independence.

But there have been many throughout American history, to this day, who have been unable to accept either Jefferson's ideas on religious freedom or his motives. The Virginia Statute, in fact, one rather typical critic contended, denigrated Christianity. It amounted to "an alliance between the civil authority and infidelity.

Secularism has been, a recent scholar concludes, "one of Jefferson's richest legacies to democracy." Those on the religious right today cannot conceive of republicanism functioning successfully without a Christian foundation.

Like their 19th-century predecessors, they point to current national problems as proof and rely on psychological stress to attract support. They are as zealous as they are indefatigable, for they believe it is the Lord's work.

v. NotfooledbyW cxxxiv. to 133. : That last sentence ….

(white Christians with a fundamentally strict biblical worldview.) are as zealous as they are indefatigable, for they believe it is the Lord's work.”.

I believe when understood in the context of the full piece, (White Christian Nationalism) contributes heavily to the current dysfunction of our democracy from a purely working class point of view.

if you think there is no validity to my observation, please make an argument if you can, Saint Papageorgio. nfbw 241221 Vdrpjo00134

Talk about rambling. Stay focused. What tribe am I in?

 

[ding]

I didn’t say you are. You have their state of mind quite intact.

You most certainly did say I was a white christian nationalist. And in fact you are still saying it by saying I have their state of mind.

Stop lying about me. I don't associate myself in any way with that tribe. So try again... what tribe am I in?

 

[Papageorgio]

How many times have I replied to your saint ding dig with I am not a saint? Every time, right? And yet you continue to do it, right? So not only do I find it insulting that you think I think I am a saint, I find that it confirms what Papageorgio has been saying about your use of insults. I also find that your repeated use of your saint ding dig despite my objections is a sign that you habitually use insults in your posts. This goes to my point about how you are the one who sees himself as better than others. You see yourself as better than you are. You see others as worse than they are. YOU are the one who thinks he is a saint.

I don't belong to the white Christian nationalist tribe. So YOU are lying. Why are you lying about me? Maybe this is something we should discuss in the bull ring.

Thank you, he persists on this name calling, I am not a Catholic, I don’t believe in Saints, I find it demeans the apostles and I have asked several times to stop this derogatory term directed at me, but he doesn’t listen and I am done with the civility. It is a personal attack because he knows it offends me but still uses it to inflame people, that is the essence of trolling. He gives the impression of superiority, self righteousness and honesty. I find him no better than the Democrats lying about vaccines, Covid origins, Biden’s mental health and using law fare to bring down political opponents.

 

[Papageorgio]

there is nothing to be belong to. it is a state of mind which includes wanting to restrict the liberty of a woman when she becomes pregnant.

White Christian nationalism is a political force, and your political positions are aligned with it.

you are a conduit for Catholic anti-abortion propaganda with pedes the voting power of the Republican Party and its white Christian nationalist agenda.


nevertheless, I want to talk about the following instead of “formatting“ and who’s tribal and who’s not tribal blah blah blah. Boring as shit bulkshit

Morton Borden is a professor of history at the University of California, Santa Barbara, and author of Jews, Turks, and Infidels (University of North Carolina Press, 1984). nfbw 241221 Vdrpjo00134

Faith of Our Founders

Jefferson's view of religious freedom, some of his contemporaries complained, exalted individual freedom at the expense of majority rights. Indeed it did, and still does, since Jefferson opposed all tyrannies, of monarchs as well as of majorities. He considered his authorship of the Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom as memorable and significant as the Declaration of Independence.

But there have been many throughout American history, to this day, who have been unable to accept either Jefferson's ideas on religious freedom or his motives. The Virginia Statute, in fact, one rather typical critic contended, denigrated Christianity. It amounted to "an alliance between the civil authority and infidelity.

Secularism has been, a recent scholar concludes, "one of Jefferson's richest legacies to democracy." Those on the religious right today cannot conceive of republicanism functioning successfully without a Christian foundation.

Like their 19th-century predecessors, they point to current national problems as proof and rely on psychological stress to attract support. They are as zealous as they are indefatigable, for they believe it is the Lord's work.

v. NotfooledbyW cxxxiv. to 133. : That last sentence ….

(white Christians with a fundamentally strict biblical worldview.) are as zealous as they are indefatigable, for they believe it is the Lord's work.”.

I believe when understood in the context of the full piece, (White Christian Nationalism) contributes heavily to the current dysfunction of our democracy from a purely working class point of view.

if you think there is no validity to my observation, please make an argument if you can, Saint Papageorgio. nfbw 241221 Vdrpjo00134

More justification and no apologies for the name calling.

 

[ding]

Thank you, he persists on this name calling, I am not a Catholic, I don’t believe in Saints, I find it demeans the apostles and I have asked several times to stop this derogatory term directed at me, but he doesn’t listen and I am done with the civility. It is a personal attack because he knows it offends me but still uses it to inflame people, that is the essence of trolling. He gives the impression of superiority, self righteousness and honesty. I find him no better than the Democrats lying about vaccines, Covid origins, Biden’s mental health and using law fare to bring down political opponents.

He's very much a political animal. He emulates politicians. Or maybe the politicians are emulating us. Either way, it's not a good look or helpful in solving problems and finding solutions.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

don't believe @Papageorgio is a racist. I believe YOU are the racist. I find you to be a troll. I find your behaviors appalling.

Talk about rambling. Stay focused. What tribe am I in?

You most certainly did say I was a white christian nationalist. And in fact you are still saying it by saying I have their state of mind.

if you draw a line between all voting aged Americans with Jeffersonian secularists on one side and Christian religionists on the other side; which side are you on?


100 34. “The struggle between two contending images of America has been a constant of our history. From the beginning, many Americans, unhappy with a Constitution that was undeniably secular, defined the United States as a Christian nation.

 

[DonGlock26]

American men of all races voted for Trump. We’ve had enough of the anti-American male Democrats.

 

[ding]

if you draw a line between all voting aged Americans with Jeffersonian secularists on one side and Christian religionists on the other side; which side are you on?

I don't know that I fit into any of them. I'm my own person. I treat issues that resonate with me as separate and distinct from each other. I don't give issues that don't resonate with me much thought. I don't necessarily take a position or make comments on all issues.

 

[ding]

100 34. “The struggle between two contending images of America has been a constant of our history. From the beginning, many Americans, unhappy with a Constitution that was undeniably secular, defined the United States as a Christian nation.

I don't have a problem with our Constitution. It had to be undeniably secular if it were to protect religious freedom.