Dr. Robert P. Jones on What White Christians Have Wrought in American Politics

I don't know that I fit into any of them.
what you write puts you in the pro religion is camp.

I made that decision based on what you write.
don't have a problem with our Constitution.
I did not say you did have a problem with the constitution. you do have a problem with the secular left is why I put you on the religion side.
 
what you write puts you in the pro religion is camp.

I made that decision based on what you write.
I defend religion from attacks against enemies of religion; both the militant atheist variety and the rival religion variety. That doesn't make me pro-religion. That makes me pro freedom of religion. If you want to put me in that group, I'm good with that.

You made the decision because I opposed your position on abortion. So what other tribe would you like to put me in?

Would you like to put me in the Catholic tribe? How about the Christian tribe? Because unlike you and your Democratic Party tribe, I don't agree with everything the Catholic tribe or Christian tribe believe or teach. You see... I'm my own person. My tribe is God's tribe, the tribe of truth.
 
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I don't know that I fit into any of them. I'm my own person. I treat issues that resonate with me as separate and distinct from each other. I don't give issues that don't resonate with me much thought. I don't necessarily take a position or make comments on all issues.
This is me, I am conservative in some areas and liberal in others, I am not black and white because it doesn’t work in todays world and some topics are much more interesting to me than others or concern me more. I think we all need to learn to respect others views and opinions and work to open dialogue on issues to become less divided and more inclusive.
 
This is me, I am conservative in some areas and liberal in others, I am not black and white because it doesn’t work in todays world and some topics are much more interesting to me than others or concern me more. I think we all need to learn to respect others views and opinions and work to open dialogue on issues to become less divided and more inclusive.
Well said, especially the last part of having tolerance for opposing views. There's not a lot of tolerance here from any political or religious side. It's disappointing.
 
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My tribe is God's tribe, the tribe of truth.

i. but you do not allow a pregnant woman to recognize a truth that is different than yours.

You are intolerant because you are a religionist. You write that you believe the cross of Christ is the ultimate truth and only true revealed religion.

ii. NotfooledbyW clxxvii. : “The struggle between two contending images of America has been a constant of our history. nfbw 241222 Vdrpjo00177

ii. ding said: I don't have a problem with our Constitution. It had to be undeniably secular if it were to protect religious freedom. #dvng 241222 180


iii. theHawk dxiii. : LOL more lies. The Founding Fathers endlessly debated about almost everything. . thvhvwk 240513 Spiwtt00016

iv. NotfooledbyW xli. : The debate that mattered on a secular constitutional basis was between rational theists like Franklin Washington Adams Jefferson and Madison for a secular government tolerant of all religion versus the Connecticut Wits and all supernatural Cross of Jesus Bible believers.

The Cross of Christ was stricken from the Constitution because the rational theists won the debate.

You need to come to an understanding of the Connecticut wits in order to have a meaningful discussion on the relationship between Christianity and the original founding documents, the declaration of independence in the United States Constitution.

Here is an excerpt regarding the Connecticut wits.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ay-america-was-founded-as-a-christian-nation/

"The Origins of American Religious Nationalism." By Sam Haselby

Sam Haselby is a historian, an editor at Aeon Magazine and the author of "The Origins of American Religious Nationalism." July 4, 2017

So there are insuperable obstacles to the Christian nationalist position. But there is also a neglected and fascinating history, key to American independence. Quite simply, America’s first patriots were acutely Christian and did envision, at least, an acutely Christian, which to them meant Protestant, nation. They issued the first calls for American independence. More specifically, America’s first nationalist movement was a small group of young New England writers at Yale College who were fiercely Christian. Timothy Dwight and John Trumbull were the group’s founding members, and by 1769, at the Yale College commencement, they publicly protested for American independence. Noah Webster, of dictionary fame, would later come into the group, too.

These young writers, who called themselves the Connecticut Wits, were terrible poets, but they were visionary American nationalists. Dwight’s epic poem, “The Conquest of Canaan,” portrayed an independent America as the new Holy Land. He began it in 1771. Most Americans, by contrast, supported reconciliation with Britain well into 1776. Years later, Dwight would complain that for their early, open advocacy of American independence they had suffered years of ridicule and contempt. John Trumbull’s 1773 poem “An Elegy of the Times” is a clear, repeated call, steeped in New England Protestantism, for nationalist revolution. Though I’ve never met anyone today who has read it, Trumbull’s 1775 poem “M’Fingal” was the best-selling poem of the American Revolution. It went through 30 editions, a feat no other American poet managed until Henry Wadsworth Longfellow in 1847. M’Fingal is a lampoon of the Scottish Enlightenment and a sclerotic Great Britain in the name of enlightened and vital independent, Protestant America. nfbw 240520 Vpiwtt00041

v. Everything that Saint Ding writes on the USMB place him on the side of the Connecticut Wits.

Saint Ding is clearly not on the side of the rational theists who founded the great nation, we are fortunate enough to live in.
 
Well said, especially the last part of having tolerance for opposing views. There's not a lot of tolerance here from any political or religious side. It's disappointing.
Yep. It’s like this troller, if you don’t agree with him, you are this or that, and he can’t apologize or won’t stop name calling because they try to bully people into agreeing with their views. He has left me alone like others because I will callout the BS and lies they spew. The right claims I am on the left, the left claims I’m on the right. The extremes are both nasty however the left is worse in many regards. There opinion is fact, your opinion is a lie. Sad politics has turned so divisive.
 
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i. but you do not allow a pregnant woman to recognize a truth that is different than yours.

You are intolerant because you are a religionist. You write that you believe the cross of Christ is the ultimate truth and only true revealed religion.

ii. NotfooledbyW clxxvii. : “The struggle between two contending images of America has been a constant of our history. nfbw 241222 Vdrpjo00177

ii. ding said: I don't have a problem with our Constitution. It had to be undeniably secular if it were to protect religious freedom. #dvng 241222 180


iii. theHawk dxiii. : LOL more lies. The Founding Fathers endlessly debated about almost everything. . thvhvwk 240513 Spiwtt00016

iv. NotfooledbyW xli. : The debate that mattered on a secular constitutional basis was between rational theists like Franklin Washington Adams Jefferson and Madison for a secular government tolerant of all religion versus the Connecticut Wits and all supernatural Cross of Jesus Bible believers.

The Cross of Christ was stricken from the Constitution because the rational theists won the debate.

You need to come to an understanding of the Connecticut wits in order to have a meaningful discussion on the relationship between Christianity and the original founding documents, the declaration of independence in the United States Constitution.

Here is an excerpt regarding the Connecticut wits.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ay-america-was-founded-as-a-christian-nation/

"The Origins of American Religious Nationalism." By Sam Haselby

Sam Haselby is a historian, an editor at Aeon Magazine and the author of "The Origins of American Religious Nationalism." July 4, 2017

So there are insuperable obstacles to the Christian nationalist position. But there is also a neglected and fascinating history, key to American independence. Quite simply, America’s first patriots were acutely Christian and did envision, at least, an acutely Christian, which to them meant Protestant, nation. They issued the first calls for American independence. More specifically, America’s first nationalist movement was a small group of young New England writers at Yale College who were fiercely Christian. Timothy Dwight and John Trumbull were the group’s founding members, and by 1769, at the Yale College commencement, they publicly protested for American independence. Noah Webster, of dictionary fame, would later come into the group, too.

These young writers, who called themselves the Connecticut Wits, were terrible poets, but they were visionary American nationalists. Dwight’s epic poem, “The Conquest of Canaan,” portrayed an independent America as the new Holy Land. He began it in 1771. Most Americans, by contrast, supported reconciliation with Britain well into 1776. Years later, Dwight would complain that for their early, open advocacy of American independence they had suffered years of ridicule and contempt. John Trumbull’s 1773 poem “An Elegy of the Times” is a clear, repeated call, steeped in New England Protestantism, for nationalist revolution. Though I’ve never met anyone today who has read it, Trumbull’s 1775 poem “M’Fingal” was the best-selling poem of the American Revolution. It went through 30 editions, a feat no other American poet managed until Henry Wadsworth Longfellow in 1847. M’Fingal is a lampoon of the Scottish Enlightenment and a sclerotic Great Britain in the name of enlightened and vital independent, Protestant America. nfbw 240520 Vpiwtt00041

v. Everything that Saint Ding writes on the USMB place him on the side of the Connecticut Wits.

Saint Ding is clearly not on the side of the rational theists who founded the great nation, we are fortunate enough to live in.
I'm not going to parse through this to try to figure out your point. Maybe try to restate it a little more succinctly.
 
Yep. It’s like this troller, if you don’t agree with him, you are this or that, and he can’t apologize or won’t stop name calling because they try to bully people into agreeing with their views. He has left me alone like others because I will callout the BS and lies they spew. The right claims I am on the left, the left claims I’m on the right. The extremes are both nasty however the left is worse in many regards. There opinion is fact, your opinion is a lie. Sad politics has turned so divisive.
Yep and I think he thinks he is overwhelming us with the sheer magnitude of his posts. When in reality no one can actually follow what his point is. It's either because he doesn't know how to succinctly make his case or his case is so poor he tries to hide how poor it is through obfuscation or both.
 
This video details why Trump won. Democrats do not have to do all these kinds of alterations. Trumps win had NOTHING to do with democrats not connecting, or having a bad message. Identity politics played a huge role... By REPUBLICANS!

Robert P. Jones is the president and founder of Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI). In this video he details what created the trump victory.


Pitiful to be that needy and think so negatively of people you don't even try to know.
Of course I would like that, as long as it was real Christianity morals being defended in law.

There is no reason we shouldn’t ban things like abortion, transgenderism, prostitution and the porn industry.
You want to ban transgenderism ? You are nuts ! People don't choose who they are , they are who they are. It's always been that way put your head back in the sand maybe you'll feel better.
 
I'm not going to parse through this to try to figure out your point. Maybe try to restate it a little more succinctly.
do you think there should be some form of punishment for a woman who wants to have a safe legal abortion in the state in which she lives?
 
People don't choose who they are , they are who they are.

I didn’t say they choose who they are. Trans weirdos are the ones claiming they can “choose” what they are.

They are the gender they were created. Nothing will change that. That is reality. You can either accept it or live a lie.
 
What is my position?
yes, you want. to punish a woman for having an abortion. Therefore, you want to force your truth on others when you have absolutely no reason to do so.
 
Pitiful to be that needy and think so negatively of people you don't even try to know.
Robert P. Jones knows those people. He was one of them.
 
yes, you want. to punish a woman for having an abortion. Therefore, you want to force your truth on others when you have absolutely no reason to do so.
Why are you lying? Maybe repeat word for word what I have told you over and over again.
 
15th post
100 99. It’s a states rights issue says many a maga.

Actually I am suggesting that both have rights and it's up to the states to decide the precedence of rights.


That is why so much of the Constitution, particularly the Bill of Rights, is devoted to what the government is notallowed to do, regardless of majority sentiment. As Jefferson said, our founders fought not for democracy, but for a government “tied down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”

In fact, our founders had a great distrust of majority rule. Alexander Hamilton asserted that “Real liberty is not found in the extremes of democracy.” James Madison said “democracies…have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.” Thomas Jefferson warned that “an elective despotism was not the government we fought for,” and that “The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society.”

Is that the position I stated over a dozen times? Be honest.
yes. You are in favor of a state right to enforce upon a law abiding individual the tyranny of the white Christian religious majority in by restrict access to abortion

NotfooledbyW xiii,lxx to 4802. : 50 years of pre-viability abortion history shows that it is rare for a women to carry a baby for 28 weeks and then suddenly decide for no reason she does not want to nurture it further. Overstressed mental and emotional health of a woman going through some kind of crisis should not be criminalized by the ******* state of ******* Texas or ******* Florida. Those states are grotesquely in favor of invasion of privacy of law abiding individuals and eager to inflict cruel and unusual punishment on women who have become pregnant. There is no excuse for it. nfbw 241122 Vrvwgo13070
 
100 99. It’s a states rights issue says many a maga.




That is why so much of the Constitution, particularly the Bill of Rights, is devoted to what the government is notallowed to do, regardless of majority sentiment. As Jefferson said, our founders fought not for democracy, but for a government “tied down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”

In fact, our founders had a great distrust of majority rule. Alexander Hamilton asserted that “Real liberty is not found in the extremes of democracy.” James Madison said “democracies…have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.” Thomas Jefferson warned that “an elective despotism was not the government we fought for,” and that “The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society.”


yes. You are in favor of a state right to enforce upon a law abiding individual the tyranny of the white Christian religious majority in by restrict access to abortion

NotfooledbyW xiii,lxx to 4802. : 50 years of pre-viability abortion history shows that it is rare for a women to carry a baby for 28 weeks and then suddenly decide for no reason she does not want to nurture it further. Overstressed mental and emotional health of a woman going through some kind of crisis should not be criminalized by the ******* state of ******* Texas or ******* Florida. Those states are grotesquely in favor of invasion of privacy of law abiding individuals and eager to inflict cruel and unusual punishment on women who have become pregnant. There is no excuse for it. nfbw 241122 Vrvwgo13070
When you can properly stare my position, we can talk. Until then I see no sense in talking about this with you.
 
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