Don't screw around with the filibuster...

[WorldWatcher]

It takes 67 votes to change the rules in the Senate. So, they cannot change the filibuster rules with only 51 votes, but they can use a procedural mechanism to bypass the filibuster rules, one at a time.

Procedure to invoke the nuclear option​

On November 21, 2013, following a failed cloture vote on a nomination, the nuclear option was used, as follows:


Once the presiding officer rules on the point of order, if the underlying question is nondebatable, any appeal is decided without debate. A simple majority is needed to sustain a decision of the chair. As the appeal is nondebatable, there is no supermajority requirement for cloture, as would be necessary for a proposition amending the rules. The presiding officer and the standing rule can therefore be overruled by a simple majority. This procedure establishes a new precedent that supersedes the plain text of the Standing Rules. These precedents will then be relied upon by future presiding officers in determining questions of procedure.

The procedure may, for example, override requirements of Rule XXII, the cloture rule, in order to allow a filibuster to be broken without the usual 60-vote requirement.

Nuclear option - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Rules Of The Senate | U.S. Senate Committee on Rules & Administration

The Official U.S. Senate Committee on Rules & Administration

www.rules.senate.gov

.
.
.
The rules of the Senate (linked above) do not require 67 votes for a motion to suspend. We're not talking about an "objection" to the rules and the Chair ruling (in coordination with Senate Parlemenarian). This is about a motion to suspend. Something different.

WW

 

[task0778]

View attachment 1181122

Rules Of The Senate | U.S. Senate Committee on Rules & Administration

The Official U.S. Senate Committee on Rules & Administration

www.rules.senate.gov

.
.
.
The rules of the Senate (linked above) do not require 67 votes for a motion to suspend. We're not talking about an "objection" to the rules and the Chair ruling (in coordination with Senate Parlemenarian). This is about a motion to suspend. Something different.

WW

Perhaps I misunderstand, but doesn't it say "any rule may be suspended by unanimous consent"? Meaning every Senator?

 

[WorldWatcher]

Perhaps I misunderstand, but doesn't it say "any rule may be suspended by unanimous consent"? Meaning every Senator?

No you read it right, as to what you quoted.

That means an immediate challenge to the rule can be made and a point of order made for a unanimous consent, if NO Senator objects the motion passes. However if even 1 Senator objects to the motion is fails on a unanimous consent request.

For a full vote the motion has to be submitted in writing in advance and a vote taken, a simple majority is sufficient to pass the motion. There was no mention in the rules for the section I posted requiring 67 votes.

WW

 

[BackAgain]

There's a lot of rumbling out of DC about going nuclear in the Senate. I understand the urgency but getting rid of the filibuster is not the right way to tackle it.

This is one of those things that will always bite you in the ass later. The lazy Man's way out.

Trump's 'nuclear' demand not landing for Senate Republicans amid shutdown

Senate Republicans have long resisted the temptation of going nuclear on the filibuster, a move more often made by Senate Democrats when they controlled the upper chamber.

www.foxnews.com

Jo

Why not?

If we don’t do it, now, then the Dims will do it to us eventually, anyway.

If we choose to do it at all, though, it should be limited to situations where we are unable to pass a budget or a CR. (And I hate CR’s.)

 

[task0778]

No you read it right, as to what you quoted.

That means an immediate challenge to the rule can be made and a point of order made for a unanimous consent, if NO Senator objects the motion passes. However if even 1 Senator objects to the motion is fails on a unanimous consent request.

For a full vote the motion has to be submitted in writing in advance and a vote taken, a simple majority is sufficient to pass the motion. There was no mention in the rules for the section I posted requiring 67 votes.

WW

Something doesn't add up here. Why then isn't there a written motion to suspend the cloture rules done in advance every time the majority wants something passed? I think you are mistaken, a written motion to suspend the cloture rule still has to be passed by 67 votes. Not sure maybe it's only 60.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Something doesn't add up here. Why then isn't there a written motion to suspend the cloture rules done in advance every time the majority wants something passed? I think you are mistaken, a written motion to suspend the cloture rule still has to be passed by 67 votes. Not sure maybe it's only 60.

Where in the suspension of the rules, which i provided an image of and a link to the Senate rules, does it say 67 vote are required to suspend a rule?

We’re not talking passage of the rules as Congress convenes in January for a new session. We’re talking about suspending a rule during legislation.

So what rule, from the Senate rules page please, requires 67 votes?

WW

 

[task0778]

Where in the suspension of the rules, which i provided an image of and a link to the Senate rules, does it say 67 vote are required to suspend a rule?

We’re not talking passage of the rules as Congress convenes in January for a new session. We’re talking about suspending a rule during legislation.

So what rule, from the Senate rules page please, requires 67 votes?

WW

Senate Rule XXII requires a two-thirds majority, or 67 votes, to suspend a rule. This rule is primarily used for invoking cloture on debate, allowing the Senate to end filibusters and proceed to a vote on legislation or nominations. It ensures that a significant majority is needed to override standard procedural rules, reflecting the Senate's commitment to extended debate and deliberation.


Also, there is no motion by which a simple majority of the Senate can stop a debate and allow itself to vote in favor of an amendment, a bill or resolution, or most other debatable questions. Most bills, indeed, are potentially subject to at least two filibusters before the Senate votes on final passage: first, a filibuster on a motion to proceed to the bill's consideration and, second, after the Senate agrees to this motion, a filibuster on the bill itself.

Senate Rule XXII, however, known as the cloture rule, enables Senators to end a filibuster on any debatable matter the Senate is considering. Sixteen Senators initiate this process by presenting a motion to end the debate. In most circumstances, the Senate does not vote on this cloture motion until the second day of session after the motion is made. Then, it requires the votes of at least three-fifths of all Senators (normally 60 votes) to invoke cloture. (Invoking cloture on a proposal to amend the Senate's standing rules requires the support of two-thirds of the Senators present and voting, whereas cloture on nominations requires a numerical majority.)

Loading…

www.congress.gov

 

[WorldWatcher]

Senate Rule XXII requires a two-thirds majority, or 67 votes, to suspend a rule. This rule is primarily used for invoking cloture on debate, allowing the Senate to end filibusters and proceed to a vote on legislation or nominations. It ensures that a significant majority is needed to override standard procedural rules, reflecting the Senate's commitment to extended debate and deliberation.


Also, there is no motion by which a simple majority of the Senate can stop a debate and allow itself to vote in favor of an amendment, a bill or resolution, or most other debatable questions. Most bills, indeed, are potentially subject to at least two filibusters before the Senate votes on final passage: first, a filibuster on a motion to proceed to the bill's consideration and, second, after the Senate agrees to this motion, a filibuster on the bill itself.

Senate Rule XXII, however, known as the cloture rule, enables Senators to end a filibuster on any debatable matter the Senate is considering. Sixteen Senators initiate this process by presenting a motion to end the debate. In most circumstances, the Senate does not vote on this cloture motion until the second day of session after the motion is made. Then, it requires the votes of at least three-fifths of all Senators (normally 60 votes) to invoke cloture. (Invoking cloture on a proposal to amend the Senate's standing rules requires the support of two-thirds of the Senators present and voting, whereas cloture on nominations requires a numerical majority.)

Loading…

www.congress.gov

#1 You posting based on an old report, NOT the rules of the current Senate which I provided in a previous post.

#2 The suspension of the rule your text is referencing is the invocation of cloture to end debate, normally a Senator can filibuster for an unlimited amount of time. The suspension of the unlimited debate rule to invoke cloture.

#3 In a previous post I showed, not an old report, but an image of and a link to the current rule of the Senate. It does not take 67 votes to suspend a rule, in this case the rule requiring 60 votes to invoke closure (the reference to 67 votes to invoke cloture is from old rules, not the current rules). The current rules require only a simple majority for the Senators to suspend a rule (that rule being the 60 vote require to invoke cloture, making it a simple majority). Then a simple majority fan invoke cloture and force a simple majority vote on the CR.

WW