CDZ Dont Be Fooled by the False Liberal-Conservative Dichotomy

[theDoctorisIn]

In regular conversation, the way the terms "liberal" and "conservative" are thrown around renders them entirely meaningless.

On the other hand, from a scholarly perspective, ideologies entitled "liberal" and "conservative" do exist. They're not dichotomous, in fact they are more similar than different.

 

[Thunderbird]

rdean here's some more "janitors and mail guys" who support Obama: Democratic billionaires boost pro-Obama super PAC - Kenneth P. Vogel - POLITICO.com

lol

 

[rdean]

This is what I said:

Democrats want all Americans to have health care, Republicans don't.
Democrats want BP to pay for what they did, Republicans don't.
Democrats want to negotiate with foreign governments. Republicans want to bomb them.
Democrats know we can't pay off debt unless we make money. That includes an improved infrastructure and college and trade school educated workers. Republicans think by not spending we can pay off the debt.

And you didn't disagree with a single thing. That means they are true, right? If not, which one is wrong?

This one, for example: Democrats want to negotiate with foreign governments. Republicans want to bomb them.

Obama Claims to Have Ended Decade of War But Wanted Troops to Stay in Iraq Longer The Weekly Standard

U.S. Deaths in Afghanistan Obama vs Bush Just Foreign Policy

The Toll Of 5 Years Of Drone Strikes 2 400 Dead

And some Republicans oppose Obama's aggression: GOPers oppose Libya intervention - Meredith Shiner - POLITICO.com

Don't be a partisan tool. Don't serve some lying politician.

I wish the Democratic politicians were helping out working folk, they certainly need help. Unfortunately these politicians serve the rich and that means corporate welfare, endless occupations in the Mideast, and transgender activism.

Mod note: Incorrect quote tags removed.

Come on. Do I really need to go read those. If Bush had just gone into Afghanistan and taken out Bin Laden and then left, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Bush and the GOP tricked this country into going into Iraq. Republicans went into Afghanistan and didn't even take out Bin Laden. They not only let him go, but they stopped looking for him. Bush himself said he didn't care about the worst mass murderer in the history of this country. And like Colin Powell said, if you break it you own it. Obama has done the best job possible under the terrible circumstances Republicans left him. And look at the GOP solutions. Send back more troops? Drop more bombs? Obama has been given the worst scenario possible. Republicans couldn't have screwed up the Middle East more unless that had been their plan all along. You don't see Republicans coming up with any solutions. Most don't even know the Kurds are Sunni or the difference between Sunni and Shiite. They are even shocked that what they did left Iran with a brand new friend. Try to figure out why. Why is Iran and Iraq suddenly close friends after years of terrible war? Think it through. Give us an answer.

 

[rdean]

rdean here's some more "janitors and mail guys" who support Obama: Democratic billionaires boost pro-Obama super PAC - Kenneth P. Vogel - POLITICO.com

lol

There you go again. Your argument is "yours are as bad as ours". Only they aren't.

Democrats have rich people too. It's a coalition party. The Democrats are not 90% white. There is nothing wrong with making money. But it's how you make it that's the issue. And what laws you work to have changed.

Texas Site Begins Taking Federal Nuclear Waste NPR

ANDREWS, Texas (AP) — Republican mega-donor Harold Simmons' remote hazardous waste dump in West Texas began accepting low-level radioactive material Thursday from a federal lab in New Mexico — the latest step in Simmons' vision of a site that accepts all types of waste.

Simmons, who did not attend the ceremony and is one of the world's wealthiest men, has given Republican Rick Perry's campaigns $1.1 million during his time as Texas' governor. The governor is responsible for appointing environmental commissioners.

---------------------------------------------------

So Texas is proud to be the most polluted state in the country? I hope the people who live there feel that way.

 

[blunthead]

Skipping the fact that I probably lost 90% of readers here with the word 'dichotomy', I have to ask why anyone still buys into this garbage?

There is no real difference between liberals and conservatives inside the Beltway. Oh, yeah they talk a good fight, like the GOP did over this last 2010 elections, but as soon as they are back in DC, the GOP does one pratfall 'FAIL' after another and dont stop any of Obama's agenda, in fact they saved his bacon on the TPP.

All these candidates sell access for donations, and with that access there is an implied promise to serve the people that give them loads of cash. These donors are largely the same people; major corporations and banks like Goldman Sachs or GE or GM. We little people down here in the low rungs of American society don't count for these guys. We are just the 'little people' and they have bigger fish to fry than to be bothered with us except on one day every two years.

What is liberal about forcing schools to change their menus at lunch to inedible garbage? What is conservative about voting away our national sovereignty one piece at a time?

There is no genuine conservatism or liberalism any more. There are only fakes and frauds who have hijacked what those words used to mean. The liberal frauds of our day are not classic liberals, they are Marxists, and the so-called conservatives are really neo-con refugees from the Scoop Jackson wing of the Democratic Party that got run out in the 1980s and are themselves a mix of godless Trotskyites and Fabian Socialists.

The two major parties are a duopoly who share power and agreed to cooperate in keeping out third party efforts by hook or crook, nothing more.

So why play their game?

We need to get back to our most important task of putting the Oligarchs back their proper place kissing the Peoples lower back sides so they can stay in existence.

I think what I'll offer isn't a good response to the OP, but I think I've discovered what my label is. I think I'm a Classic European Liberal as opposed to a Modern American one
(Classical liberalism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia Modern American Liberalism is indeed synonymous wit communism. I'm not sure what modern conservatism is except that at it's best it's Classic European Liberalism.

 

[blunthead]

There is a difference between sitting on your butt in front of the tv with a bottle of Jim Beam, solving all the world's problems with mindless ideology when there are no consequences and having to actually make a government work. If you want to live where only your ideology reigns supreme, you need to find yourself a nice place with a despotic dictator who thinks like you and move there. You will never find it here.

It's already here, you just can't see it.

 

[blunthead]

rdean here's some more "janitors and mail guys" who support Obama: Democratic billionaires boost pro-Obama super PAC - Kenneth P. Vogel - POLITICO.com

lol

There you go again. Your argument is "yours are as bad as ours". Only they aren't.

Democrats have rich people too. It's a coalition party. The Democrats are not 90% white. There is nothing wrong with making money. But it's how you make it that's the issue. And what laws you work to have changed.

Texas Site Begins Taking Federal Nuclear Waste NPR

ANDREWS, Texas (AP) — Republican mega-donor Harold Simmons' remote hazardous waste dump in West Texas began accepting low-level radioactive material Thursday from a federal lab in New Mexico — the latest step in Simmons' vision of a site that accepts all types of waste.

Simmons, who did not attend the ceremony and is one of the world's wealthiest men, has given Republican Rick Perry's campaigns $1.1 million during his time as Texas' governor. The governor is responsible for appointing environmental commissioners.

---------------------------------------------------

So Texas is proud to be the most polluted state in the country? I hope the people who live there feel that way.

How do the Clintons make their money? How does Obama (I mean other than when I have to give it to them)? You seem to think that most Democrats make their money honestly while most Republicans don't. Nothing could sound more ridiculous and simplistic. And don't bother trying to quote some liberal or other publications' talking points. How do those publications know what's hidden? They can't. It's hidden.

 

[blunthead]

When you use "Marxists" and "Fabian Socialists" and "godless Trotskyites", you reveal you are stuck in a 1950s rhetoric that was unreal then and unlinked to the real world today.

Huh?

 

[blunthead]

This is what I said:

Democrats want all Americans to have health care, Republicans don't.
Democrats want BP to pay for what they did, Republicans don't.
Democrats want to negotiate with foreign governments. Republicans want to bomb them.
Democrats know we can't pay off debt unless we make money. That includes an improved infrastructure and college and trade school educated workers. Republicans think by not spending we can pay off the debt.

And you didn't disagree with a single thing. That means they are true, right? If not, which one is wrong?

This one, for example: Democrats want to negotiate with foreign governments. Republicans want to bomb them.

Obama Claims to Have Ended Decade of War But Wanted Troops to Stay in Iraq Longer The Weekly Standard

U.S. Deaths in Afghanistan Obama vs Bush Just Foreign Policy

The Toll Of 5 Years Of Drone Strikes 2 400 Dead

And some Republicans oppose Obama's aggression: GOPers oppose Libya intervention - Meredith Shiner - POLITICO.com

Don't be a partisan tool. Don't serve some lying politician.

I wish the Democratic politicians were helping out working folk, they certainly need help. Unfortunately these politicians serve the rich and that means corporate welfare, endless occupations in the Mideast, and transgender activism.

Mod note: Incorrect quote tags removed.

Come on. Do I really need to go read those. If Bush had just gone into Afghanistan and taken out Bin Laden and then left, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Bush and the GOP tricked this country into going into Iraq. Republicans went into Afghanistan and didn't even take out Bin Laden. They not only let him go, but they stopped looking for him. Bush himself said he didn't care about the worst mass murderer in the history of this country. And like Colin Powell said, if you break it you own it. Obama has done the best job possible under the terrible circumstances Republicans left him. And look at the GOP solutions. Send back more troops? Drop more bombs? Obama has been given the worst scenario possible. Republicans couldn't have screwed up the Middle East more unless that had been their plan all along. You don't see Republicans coming up with any solutions. Most don't even know the Kurds are Sunni or the difference between Sunni and Shiite. They are even shocked that what they did left Iran with a brand new friend. Try to figure out why. Why is Iran and Iraq suddenly close friends after years of terrible war? Think it through. Give us an answer.

You're mindless recital of talking points is nauseating.

 

[JakeStarkey]

When you use "Marxists" and "Fabian Socialists" and "godless Trotskyites", you reveal you are stuck in a 1950s rhetoric that was unreal then and unlinked to the real world today.

You seriously think that there are no Marxists or Fabian Socialists around today?lol, whatever

There are far fewer than those on the far reactionary right like you. The few far lefties in America pose almost no threat to America. JimBowie, you are simply upset that the social con far right's influence in America continues to slip.

 

[rdean]

rdean here's some more "janitors and mail guys" who support Obama: Democratic billionaires boost pro-Obama super PAC - Kenneth P. Vogel - POLITICO.com

lol

There you go again. Your argument is "yours are as bad as ours". Only they aren't.

Democrats have rich people too. It's a coalition party. The Democrats are not 90% white. There is nothing wrong with making money. But it's how you make it that's the issue. And what laws you work to have changed.

Texas Site Begins Taking Federal Nuclear Waste NPR

ANDREWS, Texas (AP) — Republican mega-donor Harold Simmons' remote hazardous waste dump in West Texas began accepting low-level radioactive material Thursday from a federal lab in New Mexico — the latest step in Simmons' vision of a site that accepts all types of waste.

Simmons, who did not attend the ceremony and is one of the world's wealthiest men, has given Republican Rick Perry's campaigns $1.1 million during his time as Texas' governor. The governor is responsible for appointing environmental commissioners.

---------------------------------------------------

So Texas is proud to be the most polluted state in the country? I hope the people who live there feel that way.

How do the Clintons make their money? How does Obama (I mean other than when I have to give it to them)? You seem to think that most Democrats make their money honestly while most Republicans don't. Nothing could sound more ridiculous and simplistic. And don't bother trying to quote some liberal or other publications' talking points. How do those publications know what's hidden? They can't. It's hidden.

The Clintons and Obama made their money giving speeches for money and writing books. You make that sound like bad things.

 

[rdean]

This is what I said:

Democrats want all Americans to have health care, Republicans don't.
Democrats want BP to pay for what they did, Republicans don't.
Democrats want to negotiate with foreign governments. Republicans want to bomb them.
Democrats know we can't pay off debt unless we make money. That includes an improved infrastructure and college and trade school educated workers. Republicans think by not spending we can pay off the debt.

And you didn't disagree with a single thing. That means they are true, right? If not, which one is wrong?

This one, for example: Democrats want to negotiate with foreign governments. Republicans want to bomb them.

Obama Claims to Have Ended Decade of War But Wanted Troops to Stay in Iraq Longer The Weekly Standard

U.S. Deaths in Afghanistan Obama vs Bush Just Foreign Policy

The Toll Of 5 Years Of Drone Strikes 2 400 Dead

And some Republicans oppose Obama's aggression: GOPers oppose Libya intervention - Meredith Shiner - POLITICO.com

Don't be a partisan tool. Don't serve some lying politician.

I wish the Democratic politicians were helping out working folk, they certainly need help. Unfortunately these politicians serve the rich and that means corporate welfare, endless occupations in the Mideast, and transgender activism.

Mod note: Incorrect quote tags removed.

Come on. Do I really need to go read those. If Bush had just gone into Afghanistan and taken out Bin Laden and then left, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Bush and the GOP tricked this country into going into Iraq. Republicans went into Afghanistan and didn't even take out Bin Laden. They not only let him go, but they stopped looking for him. Bush himself said he didn't care about the worst mass murderer in the history of this country. And like Colin Powell said, if you break it you own it. Obama has done the best job possible under the terrible circumstances Republicans left him. And look at the GOP solutions. Send back more troops? Drop more bombs? Obama has been given the worst scenario possible. Republicans couldn't have screwed up the Middle East more unless that had been their plan all along. You don't see Republicans coming up with any solutions. Most don't even know the Kurds are Sunni or the difference between Sunni and Shiite. They are even shocked that what they did left Iran with a brand new friend. Try to figure out why. Why is Iran and Iraq suddenly close friends after years of terrible war? Think it through. Give us an answer.

You're mindless recital of talking points is nauseating.

Mindless? Which part isn't true. Come on, put up or shut up.

 

[JimBowie1958]

"Conservative Thinkers" tend to be an oxymoran.

I think you meant 'oxymoron'.

Classic.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Democrats want all Americans to have health care, Republicans don't.

Donald Trump wanmts universal health care, and a great many other Republicans do as well. But Obamacare was passed without any attempt by Obama or the Democrats to get Republican support. Pelosi infamously said that since the GOP lost the 2008 elections, their support was not wanted or needed.

And so we end up with this pile of bad law and bad policy called Obamacare.

Democrats want BP to pay for what they did, Republicans don't.

Most Republicans do, they just don't want to utterly destroy BP like I do.

Democrats want to negotiate with foreign governments. Republicans want to bomb them.

No, Republicans want to negotiate, they just don't think it requires us to roll over and take it up the ass like Obama does. Of course, Obama likes taking it up the ass so he thinks its a good thing.

Democrats know we can't pay off debt unless we make money. That includes an improved infrastructure and college and trade school educated workers. Republicans think by not spending we can pay off the debt.

Most Republicans think that an investment in growth is good, but that it can best be done by businesses. I think tax cuts right now would simply be spent overseas, so we need to reform our tax laws prior to cutting taxes in an effort to spur growth. And you cannot pay off the debt while continuing to add to it ad so it just keeps growing.

And you didn't disagree with a single thing. That means they are true, right? If not, which one is wrong?

What is wrong is that you are a simplistic sloganeer and partisan hack. You are the Democrat equivalent of Alex Jones.

 

[JimBowie1958]

In regular conversation, the way the terms "liberal" and "conservative" are thrown around renders them entirely meaningless.

On the other hand, from a scholarly perspective, ideologies entitled "liberal" and "conservative" do exist. They're not dichotomous, in fact they are more similar than different.

Yes, there is a lot of difference between classic liberalism and conservatism. What we call them today are not the classic meanings, and todays terms within the current paradigm of a Democrat-Republican duopoly where they place first priority on preventing another Ross Perot from ever happening, that is what I am discussing here.

 

[Thunderbird]

Bush and the GOP tricked this country into going into Iraq.

Quite a few Democrats, including Hillary, voted for the war. If they didn't think Bush was telling the truth they should have investigated his sources.

Obama has done the best job possible under the terrible circumstances Republicans left him.

The "best job possible"?! lol Looks like we've got a real Obamabot here. lol

Some information your brain won't be able to process:

President Obama s Secret Only 100 al Qaeda Now in Afghanistan - ABC News

Do you defend Obama's huge escalation of the war in Afghanistan?

And look at the GOP solutions. Send back more troops? Drop more bombs? Obama has been given the worst scenario possible.

Read the news and inform yourself:

Obama to Send 1,500 More Troops to Assist Iraq

Obama Bombs Iraq In Order to Save It Common Dreams Breaking News Views for the Progressive Community

Sorry you can't accept reality. Maybe therapy would help?

 

[rdean]

"Conservative Thinkers" tend to be an oxymoran.

I think you meant 'oxymoron'.

Classic.

Not really. Since the alternate spelling is "oxymora".

 

[rdean]

Bush and the GOP tricked this country into going into Iraq.

Quite a few Democrats, including Hillary, voted for the war. If they didn't think Bush was telling the truth they should have investigated his sources.

Obama has done the best job possible under the terrible circumstances Republicans left him.

The "best job possible"?! lol Looks like we've got a real Obamabot here. lol

Some information your brain won't be able to process:

President Obama s Secret Only 100 al Qaeda Now in Afghanistan - ABC News

Do you defend Obama's huge escalation of the war in Afghanistan?

And look at the GOP solutions. Send back more troops? Drop more bombs? Obama has been given the worst scenario possible.

Read the news and inform yourself:

Obama to Send 1,500 More Troops to Assist Iraq

Obama Bombs Iraq In Order to Save It Common Dreams Breaking News Views for the Progressive Community

Sorry you can't accept reality. Maybe therapy would help?

The reality is both wars were started by Bush and the GOP. Their solutions have been more troops and don't leave.

 

[Josf]

"We need to get back to our most important task of putting the Oligarchs back their proper place kissing the Peoples lower back sides so they can stay in existence."

Before the criminals took over, this federation was based upon due process, in an adaptive form of trial by jury, loosely called common law. The concept survives today, and the actual words are still the official Amendments to the (fraudulent) Constitution of 1787, in the Bill of Rights.

Before the criminals took over there were no Oligarchs who managed to place themselves above the law of the land, which was based upon due process, which again was called common law.

That was a stated fact stated right in the Articles of Confederation.

So what is stopping the people from forming a grand jury to then discover all the facts those randomly selected jurists demand, with all the authority of these federated people in these federated states, so as to accuse any one of those criminals now in office of "President" of the United States, which is demonstrably a foreign owned, and foreign run, corporation, and then by indictment those criminals (Oligarchs) are afforded their trial by jury?

Ignorance?

Stupidity?

Willful distortion of the facts?

 

[PhilosphyBeforeParty]

Skipping the fact that I probably lost 90% of readers here with the word 'dichotomy', I have to ask why anyone still buys into this garbage?

There is no real difference between liberals and conservatives inside the Beltway. Oh, yeah they talk a good fight, like the GOP did over this last 2010 elections, but as soon as they are back in DC, the GOP does one pratfall 'FAIL' after another and dont stop any of Obama's agenda, in fact they saved his bacon on the TPP.

All these candidates sell access for donations, and with that access there is an implied promise to serve the people that give them loads of cash. These donors are largely the same people; major corporations and banks like Goldman Sachs or GE or GM. We little people down here in the low rungs of American society don't count for these guys. We are just the 'little people' and they have bigger fish to fry than to be bothered with us except on one day every two years.

What is liberal about forcing schools to change their menus at lunch to inedible garbage? What is conservative about voting away our national sovereignty one piece at a time?

There is no genuine conservatism or liberalism any more. There are only fakes and frauds who have hijacked what those words used to mean. The liberal frauds of our day are not classic liberals, they are Marxists, and the so-called conservatives are really neo-con refugees from the Scoop Jackson wing of the Democratic Party that got run out in the 1980s and are themselves a mix of godless Trotskyites and Fabian Socialists.

The two major parties are a duopoly who share power and agreed to cooperate in keeping out third party efforts by hook or crook, nothing more.

So why play their game?

We need to get back to our most important task of putting the Oligarchs back their proper place kissing the Peoples lower back sides so they can stay in existence.

thank you. you saved me from having to write another essay on this topic.