Donald Trump is destroying Obamacare from within. And Michigan is a case study

[Luddly Neddite]

Note: This guy is a Republican:

Kasich Slams Trump's Move on Health Care Subsidies

WASHINGTON — Republican Ohio Gov. John Kasich on Sunday blasted President Donald Trump's decision to stop funding some health care subsides during an interview with host Chuck Todd on NBC's "Meet The Press."

"What I don't understand, Chuck, is what are they doing?" the governor asked. "Are they just passing these things and people are praising what the president did because of politics? I mean, do they understand the impact that this has on families, on people?"

The president and many other Republicans have called these subsidies a "payoff" to health insurers.

Kasich slammed that suggestion on "Meet The Press," saying, "these were payments to insurance companies to make sure that hardworking Americans, who don't make a lot of money, can have their co-payments taken care of."

A few Repubs have called him out on this sabotage he's doing. To be fair, the Rs were doing it before he was elected but what he is doing will really hurt a lot of people - mostly the people who likely voted for him.

Its trumpcare now and his fans are going to have to find something else to blame it on.

 

[dblack]

Who paid for the care needed by the scofflaws?

Local government taxpayers , that's who.

So, you support nationalizing a fundamental human need, because you don't like freeloaders?

I don't buy it. It's not that I don't believe you're stingy twat - you probably are - but the argument doesn't add up. If you don't like your local government helping sick people in need, tell them to stop! It'd be a hell of a lot easier that creating a leviathon government program with the single-minded purpose of funneling money to the insurance industry.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Fuck Michigan.

Florida wins when Trump scraps Obamacare subsidies, experts say

Experts???? LOL

Yeah we all know that only experts that agree with leftists are credible.

You failed to identify which experts which is why I mocked you (in fact most of what you post deserves to be mocked). BTW, FL has many older citizens who will suffer given Trump's idea of health care reform.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Who paid for the care needed by the scofflaws?

Local government taxpayers , that's who.

So, you support nationalizing a fundamental human need, because you don't like freeloaders?

I don't buy it. It's not that I don't believe you're stingy twat - you probably are - but the argument doesn't add up. If you don't like your local government helping sick people in need, tell them to stop! It'd be a hell of a lot easier that creating a leviathon government program with the single-minded purpose of funneling money to the insurance industry.

First of all FU [That is my way of metaphorically taking your personal attack and stuffing it you foul mouth].

I was a manager who needed to manage a local agency budget, local government spends more on healthcare and less to do the many other things that need to be done.

I don't support insurance companies, they are in business to make a profit, not to pay claims. I support Medicare for all, from cradle to grave. In the long run it will be less expensive and more productive if preventative medicine replaces long term care of preventable chronic disease.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Fuck Michigan.

Florida wins when Trump scraps Obamacare subsidies, experts say

That is a ridiculously thin statement of opinion with no documentation or attempt to explain how that is possible. The only way that cutting the subsidies is going to create a windfall for insurers is if they use it as an excuse to jack up premiums. Then where will that leave the residents of Fla? Anyone who believes this tripe has got to be really, really STUPID

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

So, you support nationalizing a fundamental human need, because you don't like freeloaders?

Nationalizing???

 

[dblack]

I don't support insurance companies, they are in business to make a profit, not to pay claims. I support Medicare for all, from cradle to grave. In the long run it will be less expensive and more productive if preventative medicine replaces long term care of preventable chronic disease.

Medicare is insurance companies. They're still profiting behind the scenes. The only difference is that government is buying your insurance for you. With your tax money. The only thing that changes is you don't have any say in the matter. Or, well, once every four year or so you get your drop-in-the-ocean "vote". Go team!

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

I don't support insurance companies, they are in business to make a profit, not to pay claims. I support Medicare for all, from cradle to grave. In the long run it will be less expensive and more productive if preventative medicine replaces long term care of preventable chronic disease.

Medicare is insurance companies. They're still profiting behind the scenes. The only difference is that government is buying your insurance for you. With your tax money. The only thing that changes is you don't have any say in the matter. Or, well, once every four year or so you get your drop-in-the-ocean "vote". Go team!

A reporter finally asked Trump to just explain his health care plan. His response was a train wreck.

Trump was responding to Fox News’ John Roberts, who noted that Trump’s efforts to repeal the Affordable Care Act through legislation have failed, and then asked him, “I’m wondering, at this point, what is your health care plan, sir?”

Without addressing the question, Trump immediately attacked insurance companies.

Maybe you can explain what the fuck he's talking about

“

Well if you look, ah, insurance companies, and you take a good strong look at the numbers, you’ll see since the formation of Obamacare they’re up 400 percent, 450 percent, 250 percent, 300 percent — they’ve made a fortune, the insurance companies,” Trump said. “So when I knocked out the hundreds of millions of dollars a month being paid back to the insurance companies by the politicians, I must tell you, that wanted me to continue to pay this, I said I’m not going to do it. This is money that goes to the insurance companies to line their pockets, to raise up their stock prices, and they’ve had a record run, they’ve had an incredible run, and it’s not appropriate.”

The ACA sets limits as to how much they can profit. Those subsidies are making insurance affordable.

Trump then pivoted to attacking Obamacare.

“Obamacare is a disaster. It’s virtually dead, as far as I am concerned it really is dead, and I predicted that a long time ago — it is a concept that doesn’t work, and we are very close,” Trump said. “We feel we have the votes, and as soon as we’re finished with taxes, John, we really feel we have the votes to get block grants into the states where the states can much better manage this money and much better take care of the people, rather than the federal government. The state block grants — we’ll do massive block grants into the various states so that the states can run the program.”

So where the fuck is his plan? WHERE THE FUCK IS YOUR PLAN?

 

[boedicca]

Them money?

Obamacare was doom from the beginning ,a system that the middle class must pay subsidies for all the leeches who refuse to work.

What do you mean the middle class paid subsidies?

Are you really that dense? Where do you think them money the government transfers to other people comes from?

them money? WTH are you talking about? I posted a link on what taxpayers were targeted with higher taxes to pay for it.

Government money is fungible, hun. Considering the enormous deficits of the past few years, it's inane to think that any of us who pay taxes are not getting screwed with this program.

So you have no problem with your tax money going to fund the war machine, congressmen, oil companies, etc? But if you're asked to let them take a couple dollars of your taxes to help someone who might really need it. Now do tell me how much your taxes went up to help fund this? If you made over $200,000 you did pay extra. You are also now going to pay extra in premiums in 2018 since trump just took the csr's away.

I have problems with my tax money being wasted on things which are not the Federal Government's role to provide. Someone else's NEED is not a reason to enslave me to their service.

 

[boedicca]

Them money?

Obamacare was doom from the beginning ,a system that the middle class must pay subsidies for all the leeches who refuse to work.

What do you mean the middle class paid subsidies?

Are you really that dense? Where do you think them money the government transfers to other people comes from?

them money? WTH are you talking about? I posted a link on what taxpayers were targeted with higher taxes to pay for it.

Government money is fungible, hun. Considering the enormous deficits of the past few years, it's inane to think that any of us who pay taxes are not getting screwed with this program.

End the drug war; too, fiscally responsible for the right wing?

The Drug War is a misguided disaster. Same thing with the War on Poverty.

 

[dblack]

So, you support nationalizing a fundamental human need, because you don't like freeloaders?

Nationalizing???

You've never heard of it? It's when government takes over an industry or service. Single payer would be nationalizing health insurance. Under the covers, it will be the same culprits profiting, but as consumers we'll be stuck with them. Which seems to be the point everything Congress has done regarding health care.

 

[dblack]

I don't support insurance companies, they are in business to make a profit, not to pay claims. I support Medicare for all, from cradle to grave. In the long run it will be less expensive and more productive if preventative medicine replaces long term care of preventable chronic disease.

Medicare is insurance companies. They're still profiting behind the scenes. The only difference is that government is buying your insurance for you. With your tax money. The only thing that changes is you don't have any say in the matter. Or, well, once every four year or so you get your drop-in-the-ocean "vote". Go team!

A reporter finally asked Trump to just explain his health care plan. His response was a train wreck.

Trump was responding to Fox News’ John Roberts, who noted that Trump’s efforts to repeal the Affordable Care Act through legislation have failed, and then asked him, “I’m wondering, at this point, what is your health care plan, sir?”

Without addressing the question, Trump immediately attacked insurance companies.

Maybe you can explain what the fuck he's talking about

Fuck if know. The man is a moron.

WHERE THE FUCK IS YOUR PLAN?

Again?? Don't you ever read my responses? Every time you ask this question you act like I've never answered you. And every single time I answer you. In response, you get distracted with Trump and start typing in all caps again. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, just for shits and grins:

The first thing I'd do, just to set the scene and minimize the current suffering, would be a significant bump in current safety net programs. The programs are mostly bullshit, but some people are relying on them for health care, and it's likely to get worse before it gets better.

With that taken care of, I'd start with a straight up repeal of ACA. Every last shred of it.

Next, I'd remove every tax incentive and regulation propping up "group" health insurance plans. They're not viable and never have been. The only reason they exist is that they've been propped up by government. Worse still, they destroy market incentives and are the driving force behind health care inflation.

Then, I'd use the Commerce clause to bust up the regulatory 'fiefdoms' that insurance companies have created for themselves in each state.

Lastly, I'd initiate an exhaustive survey of all the ways the law is being used to herd health care consumers - the idea being to maximize their freedom to find their own solutions to their health care needs, without the insurance industry trying to shut them down via their control of the regulatory regime.

Got it? Are you going to ask me again in couple of weeks?

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Them money?

What do you mean the middle class paid subsidies?

Are you really that dense? Where do you think them money the government transfers to other people comes from?

them money? WTH are you talking about? I posted a link on what taxpayers were targeted with higher taxes to pay for it.

Government money is fungible, hun. Considering the enormous deficits of the past few years, it's inane to think that any of us who pay taxes are not getting screwed with this program.

So you have no problem with your tax money going to fund the war machine, congressmen, oil companies, etc? But if you're asked to let them take a couple dollars of your taxes to help someone who might really need it. Now do tell me how much your taxes went up to help fund this? If you made over $200,000 you did pay extra. You are also now going to pay extra in premiums in 2018 since trump just took the csr's away.

I have problems with my tax money being wasted on things which are not the Federal Government's role to provide. Someone else's NEED is not a reason to enslave me to their service.

What is the role of the Federal government is open to question. You are just presenting your opinion as fact. If you want to be part of an interdependent, civilized society, the needs of others are in fact a reality that you have to accept and deal with. When people are sick, we all pay in many ways and providing health care is the least expensive and most humane way to do that.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

So, you support nationalizing a fundamental human need, because you don't like freeloaders?

Nationalizing???

You've never heard of it? It's when government takes over an industry or service. Single payer would be nationalizing health insurance. Under the covers, it will be the same culprits profiting, but as consumers we'll be stuck with them. Which seems to be the point everything Congress has done regarding health care.

That does not make a lick of sense. With single payer, the insurance companies would be effectively out of the health care business.

 

[boedicca]

Them money?

Are you really that dense? Where do you think them money the government transfers to other people comes from?

them money? WTH are you talking about? I posted a link on what taxpayers were targeted with higher taxes to pay for it.

Government money is fungible, hun. Considering the enormous deficits of the past few years, it's inane to think that any of us who pay taxes are not getting screwed with this program.

So you have no problem with your tax money going to fund the war machine, congressmen, oil companies, etc? But if you're asked to let them take a couple dollars of your taxes to help someone who might really need it. Now do tell me how much your taxes went up to help fund this? If you made over $200,000 you did pay extra. You are also now going to pay extra in premiums in 2018 since trump just took the csr's away.

I have problems with my tax money being wasted on things which are not the Federal Government's role to provide. Someone else's NEED is not a reason to enslave me to their service.

What is the role of the Federal government is open to question. You are just presenting your opinion as fact. If you want to be part of an interdependent, civilized society, the needs of others are in fact a reality that you have to accept and deal with. When people are sick, we all pay in many ways and providing health care is the least expensive and most humane way to do that.

No, I'm using the scope provided for in The Constitution. The powers are quite specific and limited:

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8

Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 8 - Powers of Congress


The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8 - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Again?? Don't you ever read my responses? Every time you ask this question you act like I've never answered you. And every single time I answer you. In response, you get distracted with Trump and start typing in all caps again. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, just for shits and grins:

The first thing I'd do, just to set the scene and minimize the current suffering, would be a significant bump in current safety net programs. The programs are mostly bullshit, but some people are relying on them for health care, and it's likely to get worse before it gets better.

I have no idea what you're talking about. you would make a " significant bump in current safety net programs." What programs exactly? Should government be engaging in programs and policies that ensure that everyone has access to health care or not? A simple yes or no will do.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Next, I'd remove every tax incentive and regulation propping up "group" health insurance plans. They're not viable and never have been. The only reason they exist is that they've been propped up by government. Worse still, they destroy market incentives and are the driving force behind health care inflation.

So you say. Another baseless opinion not backed up with documentation. Group plans have been in effect for decades are they are working. Market incentives.... like the incentive to screw and take advantage of consumers>??

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Then, I'd use the Commerce clause to bust up the regulatory 'fiefdoms' that insurance companies have created for themselves in each state.

I think that is exactly what Obamacare does. But yet you hate Obamacare????

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Lastly, I'd initiate an exhaustive survey of all the ways the law is being used to herd health care consumers - the idea being to maximize their freedom to find their own solutions to their health care needs, without the insurance industry trying to shut them down via their control of the regulatory regime.

What the hell does that mean...? Maximize freedom to do what. No have insurance until they get sick and then buy into the market at the expense of those who are responsible enough to cover themselves in the first place? Find their own solution. ? What is your solution? What solutions do elderly and low income people have? Get real and cut the bullshit

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

It is open to interpretation Is Health Care Reform Technically Illegal?

Have the honesty and integrity to present a balanced view...Please!