Don t Let Anybody Tell You That Businesses Create Jobs

[BlackSand]

Ya'll writing comedy now.

IW axed me twice what kinda business's I was/have been in. So I said what I've done/did/do. Truth. No ******* big personal information there. It's my ******* work history.
Then you decided I was a lying, piece of shit pizza delivery man. Then you both decided I had lost it. LMAO.

What has happened is that in our weird ass, on line world of argument and put down, you all have had your asses kicked by everyone that understands the way demand creates jobs.

SO as with many punk asses I have known over the years, after getting their asses handed to them, they sooth each others wounded pride by licking each others ass.

Carry on
LMMFAO.

 

[zeke]

Ya'll writing comedy now.

IW axed me twice what kinda business's I was/have been in. So I said what I've done/did/do. Truth. No ******* big personal information there. It's my ******* work history.
Then you decided I was a lying, piece of shit pizza delivery man. Then you both decided I had lost it. LMAO.

What has happened is that in our weird ass, on line world of argument and put down, you all have had your asses kicked by everyone that understands the way demand creates jobs.

SO as with many punk asses I have known over the years, after getting their asses handed to them, they sooth each others wounded pride by licking each others ass.

Carry on
LMMFAO.

Blacksands, is that Ice Weasels ass you are all puckered up to in your photo with the rubber duckies? RU into rubber? Weird.
I can only guess what Ice Weals doing under the water with his ass in the air like that. Them weasels are tricky little critters. Don't chaknowit.

 

[BlackSand]

Blacksands, is that Ice Weasels ass you are all puckered up to in your photo with the rubber duckies? RU into rubber? Weird.
I can only guess what Ice Weals doing under the water with his ass in the air like that. Them weasels are tricky little critters. Don't chaknowit.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Igor Sikorsky who designed and built the helicopter

Thomas Edison who successfully designed and created the lightbulb

The Wright Brothers who successfully designed and flew the first aircraft at Kitty Hawk

Do you think that they sent out fliers, posted ads, or slapped down a stack of questioners to hand out to get someone's "opinion" before they thought it was a good idea? Imagine if someone approached you with the idea they believe they could create a machine that can fly like a bird, during a time when no such concept existed. Another with an idea to produce light without the need of wick and a flame, a task which was performed by only the lamplighters at that time? They each sought out private investors and simply followed an idea with no guarantee it would ever work or how it could be built. After their success stories and hard work, do you think anyone wanted to jump on that band wagon later and make use of that invention? Did innovation built from a simple dream actually create an interest among the people with possibilities that were never seen before? Did that interest in turn CREATE demand and a desire to mass produce it, thereby creating jobs? Do you want to try and reinvent the wheel by saying a business or an individual with an idea, can't possibly find customers and create a demand that would require the hiring of more people to mass produce a product?

Edison created the LIGHT bulb BECAUSE he could see the demand for it..... there was already a demand for Light, during the night....oil lamps were used.... Edison did not create this Demand....the demand/need for 'light' was there before he created the light bulb....

The Wright Bros had also seen the Demand for Flight....hot air blimps were already flying with passengers....

DEMAND , the need, drove the inventions

Where was the demand for compact disc before it's release? Was there a demand when LPs and 45s were still acceptable formats among consumers? Can you provide proof that such a demand existed prior, OR did the realease of a higher quality sound in a smaller more compact disc than the LP actually CREATE the demand? The same can be said about the iPad, Many had already begun the transition from desk top to a portable laptop that frequent flier business associates were quite content with. Can you prove there was a previous demand for the iPad that consumers were gravitating towards before it's release?

Oh, incidentally where was the demand when Igor Sikorsky developed and built the helicopter, as there was already a successful demand for the aircraft?

Again, innovation opens up possibilities which CREATES demand among consumers.

 

[Mathbud1]

Why not? He probably started out by himself anyway. He might take a little longer, but can still get the job done. You act like the guy who owns a roofing business had never picked up a hammer. How likely do you think that is?

You have never done a roof have you? 35 square, three layer tear off. NO ONE does that by themselves. The customers don't like it, the job takes forever. The business owner can't take all his time on a roof. Who's out there selling the next job? And the guy with a roofing business has more than likely been a roofer. That's why there is no ******* way he takes on a job that big by himself.

And you have never been a roofer either. I have.

And all he has to do is put a few more Mexican roofers on the job eh. Illegals every one. You good with that?

Now, conversely, how much of a business is a bunch of roofers standing around with no tools, no truck, no materials, no marketing, no accounting, and no business license?

Funny. Every real roofer I know has a truck, tools, air compressor, nail guns, ladders. etc. Contacts are easy for material. You think roofing supply companies won't sell to any roofer that has the money to pay for materials.
As to selling a job. That is the issue for all companies. How to find the work and how to close the sale. That can be a problem for every business.

No if the guy loses his crew, he is effectively out of business. At least for a while.

I've done some roofing on a strictly volunteer basis. I don't know the terminology, so '35 square' doesn't mean a thing to me. '3 layer tear off' does. I do understand you to mean a big job, and I understand that one person is not likely to tackle that by himself, but one person can do smaller jobs alone.

Who said anything about illegals? There are plenty of people looking for work right? Hire more people to do the work to maintain the size of the company, or do the work yourself and the company will have to shrink to compensate. He doesn't at all have to go out of business just because some workers walk out.

Bigger companies negotiate better CONTRACTS for materials. Anyone can buy. Not anyone can get the same price.

Yes, having all his employees walk out at once would be a blow to the business, but it does not necessarily end it. He still has everything necessary in place to continue operations as soon as he can get another crew together.

Do the individual workers have everything they need to replicate the business they just left? Maybe. Eventually. For now, they would have to start where their employer started: the beginning.

 

[Care4all]

Igor Sikorsky who designed and built the helicopter

Thomas Edison who successfully designed and created the lightbulb

The Wright Brothers who successfully designed and flew the first aircraft at Kitty Hawk

Do you think that they sent out fliers, posted ads, or slapped down a stack of questioners to hand out to get someone's "opinion" before they thought it was a good idea? Imagine if someone approached you with the idea they believe they could create a machine that can fly like a bird, during a time when no such concept existed. Another with an idea to produce light without the need of wick and a flame, a task which was performed by only the lamplighters at that time? They each sought out private investors and simply followed an idea with no guarantee it would ever work or how it could be built. After their success stories and hard work, do you think anyone wanted to jump on that band wagon later and make use of that invention? Did innovation built from a simple dream actually create an interest among the people with possibilities that were never seen before? Did that interest in turn CREATE demand and a desire to mass produce it, thereby creating jobs? Do you want to try and reinvent the wheel by saying a business or an individual with an idea, can't possibly find customers and create a demand that would require the hiring of more people to mass produce a product?

Edison created the LIGHT bulb BECAUSE he could see the demand for it..... there was already a demand for Light, during the night....oil lamps were used.... Edison did not create this Demand....the demand/need for 'light' was there before he created the light bulb....

The Wright Bros had also seen the Demand for Flight....hot air blimps were already flying with passengers....

DEMAND , the need, drove the inventions

Where was the demand for compact disc before it's release? Was there a demand when LPs and 45s were still acceptable formats among consumers? Can you provide proof that such a demand existed prior, OR did the realease of a higher quality sound in a smaller more compact disc than the LP actually CREATE the demand? The same can be said about the iPad, Many had already begun the transition from desk top to a portable laptop that frequent flier business associates were quite content with. Can you prove there was a previous demand for the iPad that consumers were gravitating towards before it's release?

Again, innovation opens up possibilities which CREATES demand among consumers.

Yes, innovation is usually always for advancement....

Advancement of what, you may ask?

Improvement, would be my answer

As I have said, in as many ways that I can.....creation and innovation comes from previous innovations, it's PROGRESS.... improvement....we ARE getting smarter and smarter...at least we seem to think we are...

It's been going on since the day we were created and given the word, given speech.

The CD was nothing knew in the sense of creating a musical song...CD's was the advancement of the floppy disc, with benefits of progressing the LP record, and 45 or the 78.... the MP3 player is an advance of the Walkman, (and cd player for music) and the Walkman was an advance on the cassette tape recorder , and DVD 's was an advancement of CD's and Videos, and Blueray of DVD's etc etc etc etc.....

Nothing is created in a vacuum, and nothing of what you mentioned was created and marketed without a plan on what they foresaw the demand to be.....nothing in retail or manufacturing is just shot from the hip....it is planned, and projected, all off of what they think they can sell, what they estimate the demand will be based off of the previous sales of like items.

I'm not even certain if we disagree?

 

[zeke]

Again, innovation opens up possibilities which CREATES demand among consumers.

I 100% agree. Creative, inventive, innovative people will find a way to fulfill a need in a better way if given the chance.

I lived in a city full of inventors. When you started your car today, that starter was invented in my city. If you popped a top on an aluminum can recently, it was invented in my city, automotive AC, my city on and on.

None of those things had a market SPECIFICALLY for those products until they were invented.

But people still needed to start their cars, open their beers and cool off in the auto.
Problems were solved (broken arms starting your car, losing your can opener, having hot kids in slow traffic) and consumers soon started DEMANDING that their like problems be solved so the SUPPLY was created to fill that demand and the inventor was happy and the people with the jobs making the supply were happy and the consumer was happy. And everybody made money and life was good.

It was oh so happy days when we made everything we needed or wanted.

 

[Mathbud1]

Well, I am not saying it is EASY PEASY for the business owners....they do use their own or borrowed money to open the business, and do the training of employees if a small business, and manage the business if a small business, and do their own buying of product that they project to have demand... they have a lot at risk....and a lot of executive decisions to make....

But the business itself, opened because the owner believed there was DEMAND for what he or she wanted to sell.

Potential demand is like the potential energy stored in wood. The energy is absolutely useless without a spark. Once the fire is started there are a lot of things that can put it out. Running out of fuel (demand) is one. As long as all the conditions are good, throwing more fuel on the fire will let it grow, but if the conditions are bad, all the fuel in the world won't keep the fire burning. Pour water on the fire or suck the air out and the fire will go out no matter how much fuel you add.

Business is the same. Demand is absolutely necessary. Nobody is saying it isn't necessary. Some of us simply recognize that demand alone is worthless, and that even with massive demand, a business can choke and die.

 

[BlackSand]

It was oh so happy days when we made everything we needed or wanted.

So why aren't you happy making it now ... Does the demand not exist ... Or are you incapable of making what you need or want?

.

 

[Care4all]

Well, I am not saying it is EASY PEASY for the business owners....they do use their own or borrowed money to open the business, and do the training of employees if a small business, and manage the business if a small business, and do their own buying of product that they project to have demand... they have a lot at risk....and a lot of executive decisions to make....

But the business itself, opened because the owner believed there was DEMAND for what he or she wanted to sell.

Potential demand is like the potential energy stored in wood. The energy is absolutely useless without a spark. Once the fire is started there are a lot of things that can put it out. Running out of fuel (demand) is one. As long as all the conditions are good, throwing more fuel on the fire will let it grow, but if the conditions are bad, all the fuel in the world won't keep the fire burning. Pour water on the fire or suck the air out and the fire will go out no matter how much fuel you add.

Business is the same. Demand is absolutely necessary. Nobody is saying it isn't necessary. Some of us simply recognize that demand alone is worthless, and that even with massive demand, a business can choke and die.

if demand is present in the market, then the business that failed will be replaced by another business trying to get the demand their "fill"....

I don't disagree with you....it's called ''supply and demand'' for a Reason....

For everything to work, you need BOTH

One is meaningless, without the other.

 

[zeke]

I've done some roofing on a strictly volunteer basis.

You must be a nice guy. Or crazy. jk. 35 square is 3500 square feet. 10x10 area = 1 square.

Who said anything about illegals?

Illegals is the group that has filled the need for roofers. Unfortunately. It can be very very hard to get a white guy to roof. Not many black guys on a roof.

You can hire a Mexican who knows what he is doing and will work his ass off for 100 to 120 a day. 7 days a week. Hates when it rains. Not all are illegals. Usually what happens is you have at least one guy who is here legally and speaks English. He is the contact person for the entire crew. He might have 4, 6, 8 men that he is running as his crew. Very few are here legally. Can't speak English. All live together and share expenses.

And work their asses off. Lay low. Keep out of trouble. Go back to Mexico or whatever Central American country they come from for the winter.

If that hypothetical roofing company owner lost his crew, he lost around 3500 dollars for himself for that ONE day of work it would of taken a 6 man crew to perform.

Find two three roofs a week with a Mexican crew and make some pretty good money.

That's why the white guy is the business owner. And sells. And is legal.

And I have gotten jobs BECAUSE we were all white guy roofers. Some homeowners are like that.

 

[BlackSand]

if demand is present in the market, then the business that failed will be replaced by another business trying to get the demand their "fill"....

I don't disagree with you....it's called ''supply and demand'' for a Reason....

For everything to work, you need BOTH

One is meaningless, without the other.

Where I cannot argue that either can be of much use without the other ... If you want to use a "chicken or egg" argument to decide which is necessary ... Supply is the only thing that can satisfy demand and supply doesn't have to.

.

 

[Care4all]

if demand is present in the market, then the business that failed will be replaced by another business trying to get the demand their "fill"....

I don't disagree with you....it's called ''supply and demand'' for a Reason....

For everything to work, you need BOTH

One is meaningless, without the other.

Where I cannot argue that either can be of much use without the other ... If you want to use a "chicken or egg" argument to decide which is necessary ... Supply is the only thing that can satisfy demand and supply doesn't have to.

.

true, Supply doesn't HAVE to MEET the demand...

but it usually does, and that's the beauty of capitalism imho.

 

[zeke]

So why aren't you happy making it now ... Does the demand not exist ... Or are you incapable of making what you need or want?

Dude, I am tired of your bullshit. Step up your game or leave me the **** alone. What the **** are you asking me?

Just in case, I was saying that back before you were a twinkle in anybodies crotch, we here in America made every single consumer product that our hearts desired. We made clothes, shoes, consumer electronics, cars washers and dryers, machine tooling, you name it we made it, And that times were good, people had good jobs and everybody was making money. That's what I was saying.

What the **** are you asking me?

 

[BlackSand]

true, Supply doesn't HAVE to MEET the demand...

but it usually does, and that's the beauty of capitalism imho.

That is what a lot of people in this thread have been saying.

It could be argued that the business owner's desire to make money and open a business is more important than demand towards providing supply. Things are demanded all the time ... But it doesn't make a difference until the owner takes the risk and supplies them.

.

 

[BlackSand]

Dude, I am tired of your bullshit. Step up your game or leave me the **** alone. What the **** are you asking me?

Just in case, I was saying that back before you were a twinkle in anybodies crotch, we here in America made every single consumer product that our hearts desired. We made clothes, shoes, consumer electronics, cars washers and dryers, machine tooling, you name it we made it, And that times were good, people had good jobs and everybody was making money. That's what I was saying.

What the **** are you asking me?

Yo chick ... I asked you why you keep using words like "were","desired","made" ... And phrases like "times were good", "had good jobs" ... and referring to everything in the past tense?

Were those times when demand was greater?

.

 

[EconChick]

But at least you're admitting employers hire employees.

As another poster has put it -- and I have stolen it -- employees are merely a means of mass producing someone else's idea.

The business would exist without them, it would not exist without the person who created it.

The Left's goal here is "you didn't build that, you didn't earn that, therefore you don't own that, it belongs to The Collective".

.

No Mac, THAT IS NOT what liberals are saying.....NOT IN THE LEAST....it may be what you have twisted it to mean to yourself.

All we are saying is that we believe in "trickle UP"! Demand is First, supply is second. Demand drives newer inventions, you need to see at night, there is a demand to see at night, so the oil lamp was created which lead to the light bulb....the demand for a better and more efficient way to cook multiple items, the 4 eye stove and oven was created....better way to keep food cold than the dripping ice box, the refrigerator was created.... the needs and demands of the people, progress, is what drives CREATION.

an existing business is NOT going to hire more employees just for the hell of it, they are going to add employees when their demand increases...when more people are buying what they sell...

We believe as ALL STATISTICS SHOW, that more money in to the hands of those who buy the goods, improves the overall economy... and that giving more money to an owner of a running business, will not increase his sales and will not raise the demand, so that he can hire more people.... it's the other way around that works best... more demand, more people get hired.

that if more customers buy the business's goods, if the "demand" for the goods increases, then the sales increase calls for MORE help to be hired to service the customer's needs, which in turn makes more money for the business

Care4all,

See this quote of yours below?

"We believe as ALL STATISTICS SHOW, that more money in to the hands of those who buy the goods, improves the overall economy."

You're making the conservative argument. Yet you're too brainwashed to understand what the heck you're saying. Liberals believe that taking more money from the hands of those at the decentralized level....and giving it to government to "stimulate" the economy....is better for those at the bottom.

You keep claiming you're a liberal on the topic of economics. I'm guessing you're socially liberal but because you're not able to grasp the bigger economic picture you just punt to what LIBS say on the subject. I know a lot of people like that.

You're a sweet lady but I have to tell ya, you say things that are so silly, it just makes people sit back and laugh. Trickle up??? Once again, that's the conservative's argument.....that wealth comes from the DECENTRALIZED level going up instead of CENTRALIZED liberal BS going down.

Try getting away from reading Dem propaganda. Try to stop reading rags from Keynesians - like Time, New York Times, LA Times, W Post, etc. that are more biased than Gruber. Try thinking for yourself and reading alternative information.

I give you more credit than a lot of the libs on this board because you attempt to shoot for independence. The problem is YOU DON'T KNOW YOU DON'T KNOW. And you obviously defer to people you shouldn't.

 

[bripat9643]

Almost none of the ones who succeed have 5 years worth of expenses when they start.

But they do have access to 5 years capital.

ROFL! No they don't.

Mine, for one.

 

[bripat9643]

It's one of those "Heads I win. Tails you lose" deals. If the company makes money, it's all due to the employees, and they are entitled to all of it. If the company loses money, it's the employer's fault, and he deserves to suffer all the losses.

Who says they're 'entitled to all of it?'

You and most of your libturd friends.

 

[bripat9643]

This guy actually believes this shit. Business owners only assets when they start out is their inventory. Period end of story. Explain to me how oh i dont know how a pizza oven and dough and toppings is equal to 5 years capital? Hell most new business owe a good 10,000 on their commercial lease when they start. That means they are in debt to begin with. Ever hear the saying starting up a business is risky? Moron.

Why wouldn't you obtain an 18 month five-times inventory loan and use your cash for advertising?

Why would any bank give a business without a track record such a loan?