Does high levels of CO2 in the past contradict the warming effect of CO2?

[Midnight Marauder]

Wouldn't that be fucked up if we made billions of solar panels and went from trillions to billionths of ppm's with this monster gas.

That's exactly what's coming, and it would take alot less NF3 than you think, alot less solar panels than you think. Because it's not just solar panels. Every flat screen TV, every computer motherboard and flat screen monitor, every "smart phone," every digital reader like Kindle and the I-Pad, just about everything that is "cool" today, creates NF3 in the manufacturing process. And it's totally unregulated.

Report from 2008, but anyways it is increasing quickly.

It's something you have to go out there and FIND, have to LOOK FOR.... Because it's just kept pretty much MUM.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

By 2010, methane levels, at least in the Arctic, were measured at 1850 ppb, a level scientists described as being higher than at any time in the previous 400,000 years.[7] Historically, methane concentrations in the world's atmosphere have ranged between 300 and 400 ppb during glacial periods commonly known as ice ages, and between 600 to 700 ppb during the warm interglacial periods
...
Increasing quickly again,,,50 ppb.

Understand.... The difference between NATURALLY OCCURRING gases, and completely MAN MADE ones like NF3.

Which should we be concentrating on first? Ones which occur in nature, or ones that we manufacture which DO NOT occur in nature? Which truly are anthropomorphic? We really cannot control the natural ones, but we sure as hell can control the purely man made ones.

That the EnviroNazi community isn't worried about the purely man-made ones really tells you something...

 

[ScienceRocks]

By 2010, methane levels, at least in the Arctic, were measured at 1850 ppb, a level scientists described as being higher than at any time in the previous 400,000 years.[7] Historically, methane concentrations in the world's atmosphere have ranged between 300 and 400 ppb during glacial periods commonly known as ice ages, and between 600 to 700 ppb during the warm interglacial periods
...
Increasing quickly again,,,50 ppb.

Understand.... The difference between NATURALLY OCCURRING gases, and completely MAN MADE ones like NF3.

Which should we be concentrating on first? Ones which occur in nature, or ones that we manufacture which DO NOT occur in nature? Which truly are anthropomorphic? We really cannot control the natural ones, but we sure as hell can control the purely man made ones.

That the EnviroNazi community isn't worried about the purely man-made ones really tells you something...

It is true that most of the methane is natural, but why is the perma frost melting and releasing it at the highest levels in hundreds of thousands of years? Whats melting the ice to release this gas. I think we should outlaw NF3...

 

[Midnight Marauder]

It is true that most of the methane is natural, but why is the perma frost melting and releasing it at the highest levels in hundreds of thousands of years?

Allegedly.....

 

[mdn2000]

Man is natural, we are the highest level of nature, all we do is what nature intended.

 

[Old Rocks]

Ah so. H-bombs are natural. NF3 is natural. PCBs and CFCs are natural. So comforting to know that.

The GHGs that we are emitting are already having a major measurable effect on our climate. And effect that will accelerate in the coming years.

Methane releases from Arctic shelf may be much larger and faster than anticipated

The research results, published in the March 5 edition of the journal Science, show that the permafrost under the East Siberian Arctic Shelf, long thought to be an impermeable barrier sealing in methane, is perforated and is leaking large amounts of methane into the atmosphere. Release of even a fraction of the methane stored in the shelf could trigger abrupt climate warming.

"The amount of methane currently coming out of the East Siberian Arctic Shelf is comparable to the amount coming out of the entire world's oceans," said Shakhova, a researcher at UAF's International Arctic Research Center. "Subsea permafrost is losing its ability to be an impermeable cap."

 

[Old Rocks]

Emissions of NF3 and similiar industrial gases happen in the manufacture of all semi-conductores, not just big screen TVs and solar panels. And the matter needs to be addressed at the national and international level. So very glad to see you pushing for tough government regulations on GHGs, Midnight.

http://www.ipcc-nggip.iges.or.jp/public/gp/bgp/3_6_PFC_HFC_NF3_SF6_Semiconductor_Manufacturing.pdf

ABSTRACT
Six fully fluorinated compounds and one hydrofluorocarbon are widely used by the semiconductor industry:tetrafluoromethane (CF4), hexafluoroethane (C2F6), octafluororopane (C3F8), octafluorobutane (c-C4F8), suflurhexafluoride (SF6) nitrogen trifluoride (NF3) and trifluoromethane (CHF3)1. Collectively, these gases will betermed fully fluorinated compounds (FFCs) for ease of discussion in this paper. Semiconductor manufacture usesFFCs in two critical processes: for cleaning chemical vapour deposition (CVD) chambers and for dry etching.Depending on the complexity of the product, the manufacturing process may require up to 100 FFC-using stepsand up to 3 months process time. The Revised 1996 IPCC Guidelines for National Greenhouse Gas Inventories(IPCC Guidelines) do not provide specific guidance on how to estimate FFC emissions from semiconductors.

Good practice in inventory preparation for the semiconductor industry presents challenges at all levels: factory,national and third party verification. At the factory level, estimation of potential emissions based on productioncapacity or FFC use may introduce inaccuracies due to a number of factors related to the complexity of theproduction process, the variability of emissions with product types, and the rapidity with which processes changein this dynamic industry. For similar reasons, measurement of actual FFC emissions from semiconductormanufacture is extremely challenging, and depending on the level of accuracy desired, potentially very costly.Through voluntary programmes, a significant portion of the global industry is endeavouring to estimate annualFFC emissions. Several facility level emission measurement methods have been devised and used. Through theefforts of the World Semiconductor Council, industry leaders in Europe, Japan, Korea, Taiwan and the UnitedStates are working towards adopting a common emission measurement method.

At the national level, there is no common inventory method currently in use, and reporting has been problematicfor this source. It appears that some countries have not reported FFC semiconductor emissions, and reports ofother Parties lack transparency (UNFCCC/SBSTA/1998/7). Currently, emissions are reported under the IPCCcategory 2F6 Other (Industrial Processes Halocarbon/SF6 Consumption). Because there are a number of FFCsused in semiconductor manufacture, with different global warming potentials (GWPs) and in different quantities,emissions of different species cannot be summed and reported on a mass basis. They can be aggregated on acarbon equivalent basis, but this does not allow for reconstruction of the inventory since a third party will notknow the share of each gas. Unless reporting of semiconductor emissions under “Other” is explicitly specified there may be problems with transparency because emissions from other undesignated industrial sources such as
SF6 used by electrical utilities would also be reported on this line.

 

[Old Rocks]

It is true that most of the methane is natural, but why is the perma frost melting and releasing it at the highest levels in hundreds of thousands of years?

Allegedly.....

Not allergedly, measured in the water and air in the Arctic.

Huge methane leak in Arctic Ocean: study - Environment - The Independent

Methane Bubbling From Arctic Lakes, Now And At End Of Last Ice Age

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Ah so. H-bombs are natural. NF3 is natural. PCBs and CFCs are natural.

Can you not read? No one made any such assertion.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

It is true that most of the methane is natural, but why is the perma frost melting and releasing it at the highest levels in hundreds of thousands of years?

Allegedly.....

Not allergedly, measured in the water and air in the Arctic.

Allegedly.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Emissions of NF3 and similiar industrial gases happen in the manufacture of all semi-conductores, not just big screen TVs and solar panels.

That's exactly what I said. Again, you either fail to read, or cannot read. Not surprising. Since it's obvious you cannot SPELL either.

 

[mdn2000]

Ah so. H-bombs are natural. NF3 is natural. PCBs and CFCs are natural. So comforting to know that.

The GHGs that we are emitting are already having a major measurable effect on our climate. And effect that will accelerate in the coming years.

Methane releases from Arctic shelf may be much larger and faster than anticipated

The research results, published in the March 5 edition of the journal Science, show that the permafrost under the East Siberian Arctic Shelf, long thought to be an impermeable barrier sealing in methane, is perforated and is leaking large amounts of methane into the atmosphere. Release of even a fraction of the methane stored in the shelf could trigger abrupt climate warming.

"The amount of methane currently coming out of the East Siberian Arctic Shelf is comparable to the amount coming out of the entire world's oceans," said Shakhova, a researcher at UAF's International Arctic Research Center. "Subsea permafrost is losing its ability to be an impermeable cap."

You are about the stupidest person who posts. All your links contradict what you say and when you state your opinion you sound like a guy who spent 20 years cutting down trees.

Seriously Old Crock, you are the biggest Hypocrite on the boards, I for one have never destroyed a forest yet Old Crock admits to spending 20 years cutting down trees.

I do not own a swimming pool, yet Old Crock while complaining and crying like a big ***** the world is dead continues to maintain a swimming pool, the energy required to fill the pool with water, provide the water, the chemicals used to treat the water, the construction of the pool, the manufacture of the materials of the pool are exactly the things Old Crock is protesting against, man made global warming, Old Crocks share of the responsibility is the greatest I have seen on the boards.

Old Crock, an old, senile hypocrite that created the problem Old Crock now claims to be against, lets see a picture of the pool emptied and filled with rocks Old Crock, further lets here that Old Crock does not drink anything cold, that takes energy, lets here Old Crock profess Old Crock drinks nothing but non-CO2-carbonated soda.

Let me here that Old Crock is not heating or air-conditioning his home.

Lets here how Old Crock is not using a car.

I for one will not use heat or air conditioning for the all of the winter, summer here in Brazil. I will also not being using a car, maybe a taxi, my vehicle in California will not create CO2 for the next two months, how about the hypocrite Old Crock.

If CO2 is so dangerous, why is Old Crock above curtailing Old Crock's creation of CO2.

Global Warming assholes are all hypocrites, elitists, who believe because they speak their shit dont stink.