Zone1 Does anyone else here believe (as I do) that ALL who ever lived will live forever with God in his kingdom?

[The Irish Ram]

Which Bible did you use?

Pick one, because they all say the same thing, forever, eternal, without end.
The same forever that describes God's attributes in Psalm 136, describes Satan's stay in the Lake of Fire. Both are without end.
What you have done is revised the Bible to suit your understanding of it. You added to it. You added that forever, and forever and ever, and eternal actually have a time limit. And, then went on to decide that Satan would be given a reprieve and the vitriol between God and Satan would mend. That everyone, humans, and fallen angels, and demons all live happily ever after with their buddy, Jesus.
Your premise simply is not Biblical.

 

[K9Buck]

Pick one, because they all say the same thing, forever, eternal, without end.
The same forever that describes God's attributes in Psalm 136, describes Satan's stay in the Lake of Fire. Both are without end.
What you have done is revised the Bible to suit your understanding of it. You added to it. You added that forever, and forever and ever, and eternal actually have a time limit. And, then went on to decide that Satan would be given a reprieve and the vitriol between God and Satan would mend. That everyone, humans, and fallen angels, and demons all live happily ever after with their buddy, Jesus.
Your premise simply is not Biblical.

How can people be sent to an eternity in Hell when we're also told that Jesus is the savior of ALL people?

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

And then the Apostle John, who wrote Revelation, told us that, not only did God send Jesus to save the WORLD, but that they testified to it!

1 John 4:14 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

Thoughts?

 

[ding]

How can people be sent to an eternity in Hell when we're also told that Jesus is the savior of ALL people?

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

And then the Apostle John, who wrote Revelation, told us that, not only did God send Jesus to save the WORLD, but that they testified to it!

1 John 4:14 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

Thoughts?

You are conflating salvation for redemption. Those are two different things. They are related but not the same. Redemption means deliverance from the bondage of sin and the restoration of our relationship with God and was achieved through Christ's sacrificial death on the cross. Salvation begins with the grace of God but requires us to choose whether to receive this grace or reject it. If we choose to receive grace, we choose a life aligned with the will of God but it we don’t receive it, we remain in a life of sin. For most people this is a process; a journey.

 

[K9Buck]

You are conflating salvation for redemption. Those are two different things. They are related but not the same. Redemption means deliverance from the bondage of sin and the restoration of our relationship with God and was achieved through Christ's sacrificial death on the cross. Salvation begins with the grace of God but requires us to choose whether to receive this grace or reject it. If we choose to receive grace, we choose a life aligned with the will of God but it we don’t receive it, we remain in a life of sin. For most people this is a process; a journey.

Word salad. Got any scripture?

 

[ding]

Word salad. Got any scripture?

The Key Differences Between Salvation and Redemption
Salvation and redemption are both important concepts in the Catholic Faith and there are key differences that exist between the two. Jesus’ sacrificial death on the cross is the act of redemption that forgave us from our sins and spared us from a life of eternal damnation. Redemption is just the first step of salvation and the first part of our life as a child of God.

Redemption is defined as the process of restoring man from the bondage of sin to the liberty of the children of God through the satisfactions and merits of Christ. The word redemption is derived from the Latin Vulgate word “redemptio,” is a rendering of the Hebrew word “kopher” and the Greek word “lytron” which means ransom price in the Old Testament.

Redemption involves both God and man. On God’s part, divine honor has been repaired and divine wrath has been appeased. On our part as sinners redemption means deliverance from the bondage of sin and the restoration of our relationship with God.

In our natural human states we are all sinful and unworthy of a life in heaven. Regardless of the good works we do on earth, we are unable to meet God’s divine standards and we are fated to face a final judgment that will determine where we will spend eternity, either in heaven or hell.

However, Our Heavenly Father is a merciful and loving God and He wants us to be redeemed from a life of eternal damnation. He overlooked our faults and sinfulness and saved us through grace.

The meaning of redemption in the Catholic Faith is the act by which Jesus saved us from the slavery of sin, this act is his sacrificial death on the cross. Redemption involves going from one state to another. In the Catholic context, it is Christ liberating us from an old life of sin to freedom of a new life in him.

Our lives as children of God does not begin and end in redemption. After we are redeemed from our sins and reconciled with God, we begin the process of salvation. In the Council of Trent, salvation from sin begins with the grace of God touching a sinner’s heart and calling him to repent. This grace is a product of the love and mercy of God and it is our choice whether to receive this grace or reject it. If we choose to receive grace, we choose a life aligned with the will of God but if we don’t receive it, we remain in a life of sin.

After receiving grace, we as sinners are disposed for salvation from sin. From this, we believe in the revelation and promises of God, we fear God’s justice, we hope in His mercy, we trust that God will be merciful to us for Christ’s sake, we begin to love God as the source of all justice and we begin to hate sin.

Justification comes after our disposition for salvation and this is not just simply the remission of our sins but the sanctification and renewal of our inner selves through our voluntary reception of God’s grace and gifts. This inner transformation will manifest in the way we live our lives and how we treat others.

Salvation therefore is not a one-time event. It is not simply accepting the grace of God, it involves constantly choosing a Christian way of life and following the teachings of the church.

When Christ died on the cross he did this to redeem ALL of mankind. To be redeemed by Christ is an invitation to salvation. Salvation is for each INDIVIDUAL to either accept of reject God's gifts. Salvation and redemption are beautiful gifts that we are all very blessed to receive.

Important Principles to Maintain Salvation:​

• 
  Love God: Loving God is said to be the first and greatest commandment. We should not allow anything to get in the way of our devotion to our Heavenly Father. We demonstrate our love for God by following His commands and by acknowledging Him as the source of everything.
• 
  Love your neighbors: Our neighbors are the people around us, our family, friends and even people we don’t know. To love our neighbors means showing them respect, compassion and forgiveness regardless of their race and religion. God loves us all equally as His children.
• 
  Live a righteous life: The Bible is a good source of wisdom as to how we should live a morally upright life. God wants us to experience lasting peace and this can only be achieved if we live according to His ways.
• 
  Repent: When we choose the path of sin, we are isolated from God and we begin to feel a lack of peace and a sense of guilt. We can only return to our former state of grace if we repent and ask for forgiveness. Repentance is not simply confessing our sins, though. It is genuinely resolving not to commit the same mistakes.

The Key Differences Between Salvation and Redemption​

Salvation and redemption are at the core of our Catholic Faith. Are these two concepts interchangeable? What are their key differences?
www.catholicfaithstore.com

 

[K9Buck]

Salvation and redemption are both important concepts in the Catholic Faith

And that's where we part ways. I follow the scriptures, not the Catholic catechism.

 

[ding]

And that's where we part ways. I follow the scriptures, not the Catholic catechism.

You follow yourself.

 

[K9Buck]

You follow yourself.

Angry rhetoric.

Paul also relied on the scriptures and used them to discern what is of God. I try to do the same. So why do you fault me for being true to the scriptures?

Acts 17:2 ESV
And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

 

[ding]

Angry rhetoric.

Paul also relied on the scriptures and used them to discern what is of God. I try to do the same. So why do you fault me for being true to the scriptures?

Acts 17:2 ESV
And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

No, quite reasoned. You are the on who is angry. Repent.

 

[ding]

Angry rhetoric.

Paul also relied on the scriptures and used them to discern what is of God. I try to do the same. So why do you fault me for being true to the scriptures?

Acts 17:2 ESV
And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

Paul also rebuked Christians for not treating communion as the body and blood of Christ. But you pick and choose what you want and bastardize the rest.

 

[K9Buck]

No, quite reasoned. You are the on who is angry. Repent.

I will continue to rely on God's word from the scriptures.

 

[ding]

I will continue to rely on God's word from the scriptures.

You worship a book and yourself. Repent.

 

[K9Buck]

Paul also rebuked Christians for not treating communion as the body and blood of Christ. But you pick and choose what you want and bastardize the rest.

If you can share scriptures I am willing to adjust my theology. If you can't then why should I?

 

[K9Buck]

You worship a book and yourself. Repent.

You're hurt and upset because I rely on the word of God. You should step back and think about that.

 

[ding]

If you can share scriptures I am willing to adjust my theology. If you can't then why should I?

God doesn't live in a book. And you can't properly discern it if he did.

Apparently you believe that you can do anything you want with impunity because Christ died for your sins. You can't. So if that's what you believe the bible is telling you, every interpretation you make is suspect.

 

[ding]

You're hurt and upset because I rely on the word of God. You should step back and think about that.

Not at all. I worship God in spirit and in truth. How can I ever be hurt or angry when I speak the truth?

According to your interpretation you get a hall pass for anything you do because Christ died. That's fake news no matter how many times you think you found a verse that supports that.

 

[K9Buck]

God doesn't live in a book. And you can't properly discern it if he did.

Apparently you believe that you can do anything you want with impunity because Christ died for your sins. You can't. So if that's what you believe the bible is telling you, every interpretation you make is suspect.

You're off the deep-end

 

[ding]

You're off the deep-end

Not at all. You can't sin with impunity just because Christ died. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

 

[ding]

Ax murderer? No problem. According to KBuck you will live forever with God in his kingdom.

Serial rapist? No problem. According to KBuck you will live forever with God in his kingdom.

Child molester? No problem. According to KBuck you will live forever with God in his kingdom.

Serial killer? No problem. According to KBuck you will live forever with God in his kingdom.

Catholic? Oh you're going to hell. SMH.

 

[Meriweather]

How can people be sent to an eternity in Hell when we're also told that Jesus is the savior of ALL people?

Could it be it is how you are seeing 'ALL'. Consider entering heaven and seeing all the people there. All the people there are there due to our Savior, Jesus Christ. All the people there. No one there was saved by anyone else. No one was saved by Peter or Paul or Mary (sorry, couldn't resist).

In fact, Jesus' life, death, and resurrection did redeem the world, opening the way of salvation to all. Note that Paul said each is to work out his/her salvation with fear/awe and trembling. Also interesting is what Jesus said (except for one) about all the Father put in his hands.

"My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”

(That is somewhere in John, I would guess near the end, for anyone who wishes to double check.)

There are different ways and connotations for 'all'. While I agree that the word we often see translated to 'eternal' can mean different things, it certainly does not exclude the definition of 'without end'. It also includes the definition of 'without beginning and without end'. It can mean 'age', but recall this age has been around thousands upon thousands of years.