jillian
Princess
Yes, when he was on our payroll.
as for his family... true. but that's my point. i'd think one of the reasons for that would have been his distaste for their "westernization".
Does anybody have a theory as to
- Thread starter Dr Grump
- Start date
Yes, when he was on our payroll.
as for his family... true. but that's my point. i'd think one of the reasons for that would have been his distaste for their "westernization".
PatekPhilippe
Senior Member
This is correct. Khalid Sheik Mohammed was credited with the planning of the 9/11 operation. As a college educated mechanical engineer he worked out all of the necessary calculations to determine what would bring down those towers. This did not happen overnight. This planning took from sometime after the 1993 bombing to September 10, 2001. There were several PBD's throughout the 90's and into the new century that discussed Bin Laden's desire to use planes to attack the United States.
As far as the reasons why? I agree with most mentioned above but would like to add that once Bin Laden got the desired reaction from each of his demands he made more. Capitulation is seen as a sign of weakness in the Arab world. After the truck bombing of the Marine Barracks in Lebanon we pulled out lock, stock and barrel. Then Bin Laden's next excuse was Palestine, that got no traction. When Saddam invaded Kuwait and threatened the flow of oil the U.S. intervened with the help of Saudi Arabia. That gave Bin Laden his biggest recruiting tool. He then used that excuse for nearly 10 years culminating with our withdrawal from Saudi Arabia and 9/11.
The bottom line is his Q'utbist/Wahhabist beliefs that the West is the Great Satan. This is his sole reason for attacking the West....religious fanaticism.
And, when one is leading an organization based on hatred, an enemy is a handy thing to have. Without an enemy, what might be the purpose of hatred?
Reminds me of another leader's practices.
geauxtohell
Choose your weapon.
why 9-11 happened? This is partially a rhetorical question because I have my own theory, but am interested in others.
Note: Mods, if those conspiracy theorists rock along to this thread can you give them the boot? I think they have enough threads to talk about their blather...
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Wars-Afghanistan-Invasion-September/dp/0143034669/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264355880&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001 (9780143034667): Steve Coll: Books[/ame]
geauxtohell
Choose your weapon.
Oh, I don't buy that. GWB is certainly culpable. As the leader of the free world, he should have been ahead of the curve. Not behind it.
Furthermore, he was too niave and allowed himself to be manipulated by members of his cabinet with a hidden agenda. OBL was merely a convenient excuse for them. They were gunning to get us into Iraq from the onset. Once we were in Iraq, OBL was no longer that important.
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eots
no fly list
American Horse
AKA "Mustang"
America was the biggest target. He/they also saw America as the "weak horse" and a paper tiger, as well as being seen as morally bankrupt. That last image can not fail to have been arrived at from our own film industry.why 9-11 happened? This is partially a rhetorical question because I have my own theory, but am interested in others.
Note: Mods, if those conspiracy theorists rock along to this thread can you give them the boot? I think they have enough threads to talk about their blather...
eots
no fly list
no conspiacy theory..
Dr. Quintiere, one of the world’s leading fire science researchers and safety engineers, also encouraged his audience of fellow researchers and engineers to scientifically re-examine the WTC collapses. “I hope to convince you to perhaps become 'Conspiracy Theorists', but in a proper way
OpEdNews - Article: Former Chief of NIST's Fire Science Division Calls for Independent Review of World Trade Center Investigation
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F1Y6cGRXEs]YouTube - Rare TV NEWS report about WTC bombing FBI Foreknowledge[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYIZW959vJc]YouTube - Fox News expose: Israelis had foreknowledge of 9-11.[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuUvz6hLms8]YouTube - Neocon's PNAC : 911 is our "cataclysmic event, like a New Pearl Harbor"[/ame]
PatekPhilippe
Senior Member
Sorry...all you have done is present THEORIES...you know what the beauty of that is? They don't require a shred of proof...just some fruitcake who believes in them to spread them around.
eots
no fly list
Sorry...all you have done is present THEORIES...you know what the beauty of that is? They don't require a shred of proof...just some fruitcake who believes in them to spread them around.
you mean like the bush story and how it was spread by the controlled media ?...I see..
PatekPhilippe
Senior Member
Sorry...all you have done is present THEORIES...you know what the beauty of that is? They don't require a shred of proof...just some fruitcake who believes in them to spread them around.
you mean like the bush story and how it was spread by the controlled media ?...I see..
"it" what? Herpes? Or are you going to back up your statement with facts this time.
Pajarito7
Rookie
why 9-11 happened? This is partially a rhetorical question because I have my own theory, but am interested in others.
Note: Mods, if those conspiracy theorists rock along to this thread can you give them the boot? I think they have enough threads to talk about their blather...
Osama Bin Ladin has worked with CIA in the past. For some reason it all got turned around when Osama Bin Ladin was being ignored because he wanted to fight certain wars with his own army of believers that fought by faith. The Arab leaders laughed at him. For some reason though he sought to put America as his enemies and well eventually we got a terrorist attack. I believe we were asking for it and CIA knew they were going to attack. With all this happening I think former Pres. Bush screwed up by using this as an excuse to declare the ultimate "invisible" war on terrorism. Terrorism is everywhere and could be anywhere so we basically have the power to invade anywhere we think might be a threat to America (Yemen, Pakistan, Iran, etc). This is bad because this type of interventionism in foreign policy is what will form even more terrorist to hate us. America is acting as if it's the police of the world especially after declare the war on terrorism. I believe we need to pull all of our troops and bases from every country and focus more on internal intelligence and border patrol. War effects economies drastically and violence just creates even more violence. I thought Congress would've known history by now but it looks as if they are just playing with fire. Fire that is soon to backfire on us if we keep heading towards this direction.
candycorn
Diamond Member
There are many reasons I think. In essence, why do you invest in one stock over another....why do you invest in anything at all? A better or at least some ROI; right?
I think his personal motivations were because he and his group are dubious of our influence not only in the Middle East but the world in general. I think most people are like that at least on some level. Look at this and other forums for example and you see the hatred of Israel. They don't hate Israel because of their matsaball soup; its because a great many Hebrews and Jews have ascended to positions of wealth and influence in the West.
The big difference is that people in this country would never ever think about turning this bitter resentment into an armed conflict.
OBL has no such apprehensions and the means to make it come true except its not a (strictly) Israel/Jew equation.
I think on a grander scale, his Jihad only gains when we act aggressively. Or at least that is what the old arithmetic says; not so much since 2006 or so.
Boots on the ground in Iraq = X number of Jihadists.
Boots on the ground in Afghanistan = Y number of Jihadists.
Boots on the ground in Iran = (likely) X+20% number of Jihadists.
Boots on the groun in Saudi= X+Y+50% number of Jihadists.
OBL's problem is that he's not the only game in town any longer but he's the best funded. In 2011 and beyond; look for some tribal conficlts to emerge (if not sooner) as in-fighting takes hold.
But back to your question; OBL wanted to see American boots on the ground in Saudi most of all. It didn't work (yet). More Jihadists means more visibility for Al Queda and, of course, himself on the world stage.
A third and probably overlooked reason is simple arrogance that goes beyond hating our influence and wanting to see the big kid on the block get beat; I think it goes to the man himself. Islam, though a peaceful religion that I don't fully understand--hell I don't understand all of Christianity yet
--is very restrictive and from what I can tell, is one of those that has a culture of "you're with us or against us" with very little room for lipservice from the faithful. I think that OBL looks at the map and sees shades of gray all over it now. There are few hardline countries out there anywhere. Iran is thawing with internal strife; Hezbollah is funding schools; while Israel-Arab relations are not wonderful, they are not bombing one another's capitol cities, India and Pakistan are not close but are not on the brink of nuclear anhilation any longer.... I think as probably one of the last hard-core hardliners out there, OBL is seeing his worldview slip away and frankly is wanting to hit while he still can and force us back into camps; the East and the West; Christians and Jews and Muslims; Old World and New World.... Think of the first time you took the carving knife out of your dad's hand on Thanksgiving and telling him that you'd cut the turkey; was that comfortable for him? Likely not. The world is moving into a large melting pot and it is growing more uncomfortable everyday for those who do not accept it readily. I'm one of those at times.
Anyway, thats my two cents. Commence firing.
Dr Grump
Platinum Member
- Thread starter
- #55
There are many reasons I think. In essence, why do you invest in one stock over another....why do you invest in anything at all? A better or at least some ROI; right?
I think his personal motivations were because he and his group are dubious of our influence not only in the Middle East but the world in general. I think most people are like that at least on some level. Look at this and other forums for example and you see the hatred of Israel. They don't hate Israel because of their matsaball soup; its because a great many Hebrews and Jews have ascended to positions of wealth and influence in the West.
The big difference is that people in this country would never ever think about turning this bitter resentment into an armed conflict.
OBL has no such apprehensions and the means to make it come true except its not a (strictly) Israel/Jew equation.
I think on a grander scale, his Jihad only gains when we act aggressively. Or at least that is what the old arithmetic says; not so much since 2006 or so.
Boots on the ground in Iraq = X number of Jihadists.
Boots on the ground in Afghanistan = Y number of Jihadists.
Boots on the ground in Iran = (likely) X+20% number of Jihadists.
Boots on the groun in Saudi= X+Y+50% number of Jihadists.
OBL's problem is that he's not the only game in town any longer but he's the best funded. In 2011 and beyond; look for some tribal conficlts to emerge (if not sooner) as in-fighting takes hold.
But back to your question; OBL wanted to see American boots on the ground in Saudi most of all. It didn't work (yet). More Jihadists means more visibility for Al Queda and, of course, himself on the world stage.
A third and probably overlooked reason is simple arrogance that goes beyond hating our influence and wanting to see the big kid on the block get beat; I think it goes to the man himself. Islam, though a peaceful religion that I don't fully understand--hell I don't understand all of Christianity yet
Think of the first time you took the carving knife out of your dad's hand on Thanksgiving and telling him that you'd cut the turkey; was that comfortable for him? Likely not. The world is moving into a large melting pot and it is growing more uncomfortable everyday for those who do not accept it readily. I'm one of those at times.
Anyway, thats my two cents. Commence firing.
Don't really understand the need to supersize your comments. Think they are totally wrong, but very interesting, and very well put...
I think the 'why' is more to do with the reasons I put forth during my first few posts...
candycorn
Diamond Member
There are many reasons I think. In essence, why do you invest in one stock over another....why do you invest in anything at all? A better or at least some ROI; right?
I think his personal motivations were because he and his group are dubious of our influence not only in the Middle East but the world in general. I think most people are like that at least on some level. Look at this and other forums for example and you see the hatred of Israel. They don't hate Israel because of their matsaball soup; its because a great many Hebrews and Jews have ascended to positions of wealth and influence in the West.
The big difference is that people in this country would never ever think about turning this bitter resentment into an armed conflict.
OBL has no such apprehensions and the means to make it come true except its not a (strictly) Israel/Jew equation.
I think on a grander scale, his Jihad only gains when we act aggressively. Or at least that is what the old arithmetic says; not so much since 2006 or so.
Boots on the ground in Iraq = X number of Jihadists.
Boots on the ground in Afghanistan = Y number of Jihadists.
Boots on the ground in Iran = (likely) X+20% number of Jihadists.
Boots on the groun in Saudi= X+Y+50% number of Jihadists.
OBL's problem is that he's not the only game in town any longer but he's the best funded. In 2011 and beyond; look for some tribal conficlts to emerge (if not sooner) as in-fighting takes hold.
But back to your question; OBL wanted to see American boots on the ground in Saudi most of all. It didn't work (yet). More Jihadists means more visibility for Al Queda and, of course, himself on the world stage.
A third and probably overlooked reason is simple arrogance that goes beyond hating our influence and wanting to see the big kid on the block get beat; I think it goes to the man himself. Islam, though a peaceful religion that I don't fully understand--hell I don't understand all of Christianity yet
Think of the first time you took the carving knife out of your dad's hand on Thanksgiving and telling him that you'd cut the turkey; was that comfortable for him? Likely not. The world is moving into a large melting pot and it is growing more uncomfortable everyday for those who do not accept it readily. I'm one of those at times.
Anyway, thats my two cents. Commence firing.
Don't really understand the need to supersize your comments. Think they are totally wrong, but very interesting, and very well put...
I think the 'why' is more to do with the reasons I put forth during my first few posts...
Larger=easier to read.
If you believe the reasons I put fourth are wrong; I can see that because he's not exactly putting out bullet points; we're all guessing why he authorized the attack on us.
However, I feel that the goal of every Jihadist is to get as many US troops into the muslim holy lands as possible. It is more difficult to recruit foot soldiers when "the great satan" isn't acting satanic. Furthermore, I fully believe that he, personally, is more comfortable with the nations of the world in neat camps as opposed to the free exchange of commerce and ideas. And I think it ties into your "revenge" angle at least a little bit if you buy his personal reasons for authorizing or at least knowing of the attack; when the USSR goes into Afghanistan, his rep rose and money poured in. When the US attacks, basically the world says "you're on your own" so it is quite easy for us to see why he prefers 1978 to 2008.
But as I said, we're all guessing; I think the salient point is that we know who the enemy is and it isn't NeoCons, Mossad, or any of the other people the kooks blame for the attack.
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