Does anti Semitism exist? nah

[Book of Jeremiah]

i dunno. you once claimed 99% of jews are zionists.

and so what? all he said was that something wasn't anti-semitism.

Being a Zionist does not undercut one's loyalty to the US any more than being a member of a Church which is opposed to abortion, or any number of other affiliations or attachments.

We might want to worry more about those who claim to be 'morally opposed' to the very existence of nation-states and governments.

Many here don't even know what being a Zionist means.

There are hundreds of thousands of Zionists who are not Jews all over the world.

Does anybody ask THEM to whom they're loyal?

I'm proud to be a Zionist. - Jeri

 

[sealadaigh]

it's a legitimate question...a very legitimate question.

do you think the palestinians would be more docile were they being colonised by eskimos?

Did they say that the ESKIMOS will hide behind the stones and the trees, and they will tell on them?

do you really want to discuss religious tracts? i am sure i can ind plenty of objectionable passages about the "goyim" in translations of the torah and talmud.

 

[sealadaigh]

So, that's why you only see one side. You're out of sorts.

Still, there's hatred enough out there for Blacks, Jews and Muslims it would seem.

I'm watching all of it.

the good part is, when everyone freaks, i am totally calm.

i think a lot of the bigotry out there isn't going to change. the effects of that bigotry, such as lower pay and inferior schools can be changed.

The meld between bigotry and hatred doesn't need a vulcan.

i suppose that would depend upon how you define bigotry. to many, it simply means someone who is prejudiced against someone or a group for circumstances beyond their control (born that way).

for others it means acting on those prejudices.

the definition evolves and changes.

 

[t_polkow]

Of course it exists. What do you call Saudi Arabia not permitting Jews to fly to Saudi Arabia?

ANTI - SEMITISM.

This kind of stuff is what EDUCATED non fundamentalist Jews are fighting in Israel



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7t_LxpCY2G8]How To Kill Goyim And Influence People -- Torat Ha'melech - YouTube[/ame]



How To Kill Goyim And Influence People: Leading Israeli Rabbis Defend Manual for For Killing Non-Jews


As soon as it was published late last year,Torat Ha’Melech sparked a national uproar. The controversy began when an Israeli tabloid panned the book’s contents as “230 pages on the laws concerning the killing of non-Jews, a kind of guidebook for anyone who ponders the question of if and when it is permissible to take the life of a non-Jew.” According to the book’s author, Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira, “Non-Jews are “uncompassionate by nature” and should be killed in order to “curb their evil inclinations.” “If we kill a gentile who has has violated one of the seven commandments… there is nothing wrong with the murder,” Shapira insisted. Citing Jewish law as his source (or at least a very selective interpretation of it) he declared: “There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us, and in such a situation they may be harmed deliberately, and not only during combat with adults.”

In January, Shapira was briefly detained by the Israeli police,

 

[sealadaigh]

OK, so how many such American Jews do you allege there are? And in percentage, how do you allege that compares to other groups within the American citizenry? How are you arriving at those estimates: what are your sources?

i dunno. you once claimed 99% of jews are zionists.

and so what? all he said was that something wasn't anti-semitism.

Being a Zionist does not undercut one's loyalty to the US any more than being a member of a Church which is opposed to abortion, or any number of other affiliations or attachments.

We might want to worry more about those who claim to be 'morally opposed' to the very existence of nation-states and governments.

i make a distinction between religious entities and political entities.

who is opposed to the very existence of nation-states and governments?

 

[sealadaigh]

i dunno. you once claimed 99% of jews are zionists.

and so what? all he said was that something wasn't anti-semitism.

Being a Zionist does not undercut one's loyalty to the US any more than being a member of a Church which is opposed to abortion, or any number of other affiliations or attachments.

We might want to worry more about those who claim to be 'morally opposed' to the very existence of nation-states and governments.

Many here don't even know what being a Zionist means.

There are hundreds of thousands of Zionists who are not Jews all over the world.

Does anybody ask THEM to whom they're loyal?

i am aware of what a "zionist" is and i am aware of how marg twisted mike k's post.

 

[MHunterB]

What have I ever posted, Mike, that makes you 'suspect' me of disloyalty to our nation? I'm sure my husband (who retired fro the Army as an E-9 and has a current clearance) would be interested in knowing more.......

Just because Norm was born to Jewish parents, do you have proof that he practices Judaism? ( I use 'Jew' to mean members of my faith community: how are you using it?) And do you have some asinine idea that his being 'Jewish' has some bearing on his reliability?

If I'm mistaken I will apologize. My suspicion is based on the fact that every time someone posts a criticism of Israel you are among those who pop up in defense of Israel regardless of how reasonable the complaint, such as the negative effects of U.S. military and economic support of Israel --which in fact was Osama bin Laden's principal grievance against us dating back to 1998. (Do you need me to post the transcript of bin Laden's 1998 complaint and his subtle but unmistakable threat?)

We have 'American' posters here who are very anti-capitalism: does their titular 'American' status mean that capitalism is a terrible system ?

I am among the vigorous critics of capitalism as it exists in America today. And, yes, unconstrained (laissez faire) capiitalism is indeed a terrible system because it inevitably will evolve into fascistic rule by the rich.

I suspect that you don't see where your definition of a 'reasonable' complaint isn't necessarily shared by others. OBL was a terrorist, by any reasonable account. His 'grievances' are of little concern to me, and I do not see why the US should change its foreign policy based on those 'grievances'. Nor does anyone who's involved in the policy-making process, it would seem.

I don't think we've got 'unconstrained' capitalism in this country, either. It may need some 'tweaking', but the basic system is doing better by most of us than anything else which has been proposed in the past century or so....

Oh, and I don't "pop up" on here: over the past year I've been a fairly regular poster. And yes, I do post on other topics, etc.

 

[MHunterB]

Being a Zionist does not undercut one's loyalty to the US any more than being a member of a Church which is opposed to abortion, or any number of other affiliations or attachments.

We might want to worry more about those who claim to be 'morally opposed' to the very existence of nation-states and governments.

Many here don't even know what being a Zionist means.

There are hundreds of thousands of Zionists who are not Jews all over the world.

Does anybody ask THEM to whom they're loyal?

i am aware of what a "zionist" is and i am aware of how marg twisted mike k's post.

So sad you're unaware of how you twisted my post: being a 'Zionist' does not equate to uncritical support for Israel's every policy. And it assuredy does not equate to placing Israeli concerns before American ones.

 

[Hossfly]

the good part is, when everyone freaks, i am totally calm.

i think a lot of the bigotry out there isn't going to change. the effects of that bigotry, such as lower pay and inferior schools can be changed.

I understand your 'enthusiasm' now.

Regarding the 'Second Intifada? There was no ending of the 'First Intifada'.

We're still in the First Intifada.

It's ebb and flow, dont'cha know

Indeed, it is all just a continuation of the war Israel started a hundred years ago.

Why not mention that your fellow Muslims started the war against others when they left the Saudi Peninsula and started invading the surrounding countries in the Middle East and they are continuing this war against others in many locations in the world today?

 

[50_RiaL]

Anti-Semitism is innate hostility toward Jews -- all Jews.

Hostility toward Israel is not anti-Semitism. Dislike of American Jews whose loyalty to Israel exceeds their concern for America's best interests is not anti-Semitism. It is patriotism!

"God Bless America." Written by the Jewish composer Irving Berlin. Those darn Jews!

 

[sealadaigh]

Many here don't even know what being a Zionist means.

There are hundreds of thousands of Zionists who are not Jews all over the world.

Does anybody ask THEM to whom they're loyal?

i am aware of what a "zionist" is and i am aware of how marg twisted mike k's post.

So sad you're unaware of how you twisted my post: being a 'Zionist' does not equate to uncritical support for Israel's every policy. And it assuredy does not equate to placing Israeli concerns before American ones.

you read way too much into simple statements.

i am aware of what a zionist is and i am aware of how you twisted mike k's post.

he said..."Dislike of American Jews whose loyalty to Israel exceeds their concern for America's best interests is not anti-Semitism. It is patriotism!"

you always assume statements like "american jews" means "all american jews". i do not happen to think in absolutes. i think people who do are pretty zealous and stupid and i do not assume either of those about a person as well.

probably an appropriate response on your part would be to ask what he meant..."some" or "all" or "those".

 

[sealadaigh]

Anti-Semitism is innate hostility toward Jews -- all Jews.

Hostility toward Israel is not anti-Semitism. Dislike of American Jews whose loyalty to Israel exceeds their concern for America's best interests is not anti-Semitism. It is patriotism!

"God Bless America." Written by the Jewish composer Irving Berlin. Those darn Jews!

and jonathan pollard god damned america. those darn jews.

i am not going to judge all jews by either one of these men.

i do think a lot of american jews, if forced to choose between what is good for america or what is good for israel would blindly choose what is good for israel. i can think of no other american ethnicity/culture whose loyalties are so divided. there may be some, but i cannot think of any.

 

[pbel]

What does anti-Semitism have to do with the Israeli/Palestinian Conflict?

Lip, perhaps you could tell us why anti-Semitism or any bigotry would affect someone's interest either for or against.

In one of my Posts, I wondered how you would gauge Harry Truman a confirmed anti-Semite whose support and influence at the UN assured the creation of Israel. He put the strategic interests of the US guarding the Oil Routes over his very obvious anti-Semitism.

What say you?

 

[MikeK]

Anti-Semitism is innate hostility toward Jews -- all Jews.

Hostility toward Israel is not anti-Semitism. Dislike of American Jews whose loyalty to Israel exceeds their concern for America's best interests is not anti-Semitism. It is patriotism!

OK, so how many such American Jews do you allege there are? And in percentage, how do you allege that compares to other groups within the American citizenry? How are you arriving at those estimates: what are your sources?

History has taught you nothing.

 

[RoccoR]

MikeK, MHunterB, et al,

I'm not sure that "Semitism is innate hostility toward Jews."

There are several different ways to consider this, but religion seems to be the thought here. Oddly enough, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all "Semitic religions." Semitic refers to the customs, traditions, and practices of Semitic People [(speakers of Semitic languages)(Arabic, Amharic, Hebrew, and Tigrinya)]. Semitic People are in the heritage linage of Assyrians, Chaldeans, Aramaeans, Sabaeans, Canaanites, Amorites and (of course) Hebrews.

Oddly enough (and I don't understand how it came to be) in modern times, the term "anti-Semetic" has come to mean a prejudiced or discriminating against Jewish people; unless specified differently.

Anti-Semitism is innate hostility toward Jews -- all Jews.

Hostility toward Israel is not anti-Semitism. Dislike of American Jews whose loyalty to Israel exceeds their concern for America's best interests is not anti-Semitism. It is patriotism!

OK, so how many such American Jews do you allege there are? And in percentage, how do you allege that compares to other groups within the American citizenry? How are you arriving at those estimates: what are your sources?

History has taught you nothing.

(COMMENT)

You are not born either "anti-Semitic" or "Semitic;" there is nothing in it that is innate. Both are learned through training and experience.

To be anti-Israeli is not the same as being anti-Semitic. The first is a geo-political issue and the latter is in a religious context.

Most people (not from the Middle East) are open minded and judge the policies and practices of Israel on a case-by-case basis. Because they might favor Israel in one aspect, does not make them pro-Israeli. Because they might oppose Israel in another aspect, does not make them anti-Israeli.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[MHunterB]

I think that stating another person 'always assumes' is expressing an absolute. And I think that people who express and think in absolutes are indeed pretty zealous and stupid.

 

[MHunterB]

Anti-Semitism is innate hostility toward Jews -- all Jews.

Hostility toward Israel is not anti-Semitism. Dislike of American Jews whose loyalty to Israel exceeds their concern for America's best interests is not anti-Semitism. It is patriotism!

"God Bless America." Written by the Jewish composer Irving Berlin. Those darn Jews!

and jonathan pollard god damned america. those darn jews.

i am not going to judge all jews by either one of these men.

i do think a lot of american jews, if forced to choose between what is good for america or what is good for israel would blindly choose what is good for israel. i can think of no other american ethnicity/culture whose loyalties are so divided. there may be some, but i cannot think of any.

As good an illustration of anti-jewish 'thought' as ever there was. It's more by way of a 'belief' since absolutely nothing 'external' to the induhvidual has been cited.

 

[MHunterB]

Anti-Semitism is innate hostility toward Jews -- all Jews.

Hostility toward Israel is not anti-Semitism. Dislike of American Jews whose loyalty to Israel exceeds their concern for America's best interests is not anti-Semitism. It is patriotism!

OK, so how many such American Jews do you allege there are? And in percentage, how do you allege that compares to other groups within the American citizenry? How are you arriving at those estimates: what are your sources?

History has taught you nothing.

Aside from the pedantic pontification, that 'comment' is devoid of useful information. Just what is it that, in your opinion, 'history' should have taught me?

And won't you please give me some reason to hold your opinion above another view? Thanks : ))

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Anti-Semitism is innate hostility toward Jews -- all Jews.

Hostility toward Israel is not anti-Semitism. Dislike of American Jews whose loyalty to Israel exceeds their concern for America's best interests is not anti-Semitism. It is patriotism!

"God Bless America." Written by the Jewish composer Irving Berlin. Those darn Jews!

and jonathan pollard god damned america. those darn jews.

i am not going to judge all jews by either one of these men.

i do think a lot of american jews, if forced to choose between what is good for america or what is good for israel would blindly choose what is good for israel. i can think of no other american ethnicity/culture whose loyalties are so divided. there may be some, but i cannot think of any.

I once heard the Jewish comedian Alan King describe his love for Israel as his love for his mother, and his love for America as his love for his wife. A man's first loyalty is to his wife, but he doesn't desert his mother either.

 

[pbel]

"God Bless America." Written by the Jewish composer Irving Berlin. Those darn Jews!

and jonathan pollard god damned america. those darn jews.

i am not going to judge all jews by either one of these men.

i do think a lot of american jews, if forced to choose between what is good for america or what is good for israel would blindly choose what is good for israel. i can think of no other american ethnicity/culture whose loyalties are so divided. there may be some, but i cannot think of any.

I once heard the Jewish comedian Alan King describe his love for Israel as his love for his mother, and his love for America as his love for his wife. A man's first loyalty is to his wife, but he doesn't desert his mother either.

I can sympathize on a historical sense, Jews were dispersed by a conquering colossus...Then Christianity persecuted...But this is a Geo-Political matter not about religion and mothers...Israel was a gift by the Western Powers over the objection of the indigenous Arabs, Palestinians, Syrians Egyptians all mixed in an area called Palestine or what-ever.

If you got a wife like Israel became a state, they would call that rape.