Documents Discovered, Shows Hanoi Directed Kerry

[CSM]

Right. Exquisite timing, eh? Funny how a man who signed up for a six-year hitch in 1966 doesn't show a formal discharge until 12 years later - exactly the time when Carter was handing out get-out-of-jail-free cards. The fact that Kerry could stop all this by signing Form 180 - but doesn't - tells me that whatever is in that military record must be pretty damning. This would be the story of the year for any journalist interested in actually ferreting out news....instead, PBS was busy running a hatchet piece on Rumsfeld last night. Nothing wrong here.

Thanks for the info, CSM.

It wasn't coincidence. It had to be e deliberate act. Officer review boards were held for all officers in 1977 at the request of Carter. Attempts have been made under the FOIA to get Kerry's records but the Navy refuses to release them. There are many reasons for less than honorable discharges; however, one could conclude (based on the evidence so far) that whatever the reason Kerry got a less than honorable discharge, he has since been granted amnesty. At the very least, it undermines the whole argument against Bush's record and Kerry's statements that he served "honorably".

 

[musicman]

CSM:

I almost started to say, "I hate to belabor the obvious..." - but it's plain to see that this simple fact is NOT obvious to a depressingly large number of Americans:

Can you even IMAGINE the howling that would emanate from the mainstream media if the roles were reversed here?

 

[CSM]

Here is a website with links to the original document:

http://beldar.blogs.com/beldarblog/2004/10/was_kerrys_orig.html

The article itself couldbe viewed as leaning to the right, but the document appears to be real.

Note that this whole question about Kerry's service record was an issue during the Nixon years as well.

 

[musicman]

Here is a website with links to the original document:

http://beldar.blogs.com/beldarblog/2004/10/was_kerrys_orig.html

The article itself couldbe viewed as leaning to the right, but the document appears to be real.

Note that this whole question about Kerry's service record was an issue during the Nixon years as well.

Thanks, CSM. I'm just going to interrupt my reading long enough to tell you that this was, indeed, part of the original link I was referencing. It is now unavailable(from that particular link, at any rate) without the person requesting it subscribing to - I believe - The New York Sun. So, this will prove to be a most useful link.

Perhaps the "eligibility" dispute was raised by a reader, in the "comments" section of the Sun link. The man seemed to know what he was talking about. Anyhow, I'll keep digging. Thanks again!

 

[CSM]

Thanks, CSM. I'm just going to interrupt my reading long enough to tell you that this was, indeed, part of the original link I was referencing. It is now unavailable(from that particular link, at any rate) without the person requesting it subscribing to - I believe - The New York Sun. So, this will prove to be a most useful link.

Perhaps the "eligibility" dispute was raised by a reader, in the "comments" section of the Sun link. The man seemed to know what he was talking about. Anyhow, I'll keep digging. Thanks again!

No problem, though I think the issue is mute. I am not a lawyer, so do not know how the amnesty impacts eligibility for VA benefits or running for public office.

 

[drowe]

No problem, though I think the issue is mute. I am not a lawyer, so do not know how the amnesty impacts eligibility for VA benefits or running for public office.

I was known as the barracks lawyer during my time in the Army. I once spoke with a fellow platoon member "who sought counsel"; he was receiving a General Discharge for multiple UCMJ actions (DUI, possession of a firearm on post). He was able to apply for an honorable after I believe 90 days and then eligible for VA benefits (GI bill etc.). At any rate, I'm sure the appeal works along the same lines too.

 

[CSM]

I was known as the barracks lawyer during my time in the Army. I once spoke with a fellow platoon member "who sought counsel"; he was receiving a General Discharge for multiple UCMJ actions (DUI, possession of a firearm on post). He was able to apply for an honorable after I believe 90 days and then eligible for VA benefits (GI bill etc.). At any rate, I'm sure the appeal works along the same lines too.

What he was eligible for was a review after 90 days. That would be primarily for clerical errors, etc. He could request a formal review board at any time up to 15 years after the date of the original discharge. Va benefits eligibility are reviewed by the VA itself, regardless of type of discharge.

 

[drowe]

CSM - I pass the the Barracks Lawyer Torch to you sir.

Go forth and do good things

 

[CSM]

CSM - I pass the the Barracks Lawyer Torch to you sir.

Go forth and do good things

CSM=Command Sergeant Major.

It was my job to know such things.

 

[Palestinian Jew]

So let me get all the accusations straight:

-While in Vietnam Kerry shot himself to get a purple heart.

-Then he jumped off his boat in wild craze and proceeded to burn down a village with a Zippo, but not before shooting a little girl.

-He then tried to flee from gunfire like a coward, which knocked off one of his crewman. He then continued to flee, but decided to go back for the guy. All the while the supposed witness was just watching.

-Kerry singlehandedly lengthened all the imprisionment of POWs and increased their torture for giving one of a million anti-war speeches given at the time.

-Kerry met with Jane Fonda in Hanoi

-Kerry and the VVAW were nothing but puppets of Hanoi

-Kerry was really dishonorably discharged, but for some reason the military documents do not say that

And the right says we are crazy?!

 

[CSM]

So let me get all the accusations straight:

-While in Vietnam Kerry shot himself to get a purple heart.

-Then he jumped off his boat in wild craze and proceeded to burn down a village with a Zippo, but not before shooting a little girl.

-He then tried to flee from gunfire like a coward, which knocked off one of his crewman. He then continued to flee, but decided to go back for the guy. All the while the supposed witness was just watching.

-Kerry singlehandedly lengthened all the imprisionment of POWs and increased their torture for giving one of a million anti-war speeches given at the time.

-Kerry met with Jane Fonda in Hanoi

-Kerry and the VVAW were nothing but puppets of Hanoi

-Kerry was really dishonorably discharged, but for some reason the military documents do not say that

And the right says we are crazy?!

1) never heard that one.

2) Never heard that one either.

3) Not in any details I have seen.

4) Not singlehandedly...he had a lot of help.

5) Never heard that one either.

6) Dunno about the puppets part, but they certainly had similar goals (specifically the end of the VN war).

7) Not sure if it was dishonorable, but it was definitely less than honorable.

8) Not only does the right say it, they believe it!

 

[Avatar4321]

So let me get all the accusations straight:

-While in Vietnam Kerry shot himself to get a purple heart.

-Then he jumped off his boat in wild craze and proceeded to burn down a village with a Zippo, but not before shooting a little girl.

-He then tried to flee from gunfire like a coward, which knocked off one of his crewman. He then continued to flee, but decided to go back for the guy. All the while the supposed witness was just watching.

-Kerry singlehandedly lengthened all the imprisionment of POWs and increased their torture for giving one of a million anti-war speeches given at the time.

-Kerry met with Jane Fonda in Hanoi

-Kerry and the VVAW were nothing but puppets of Hanoi

-Kerry was really dishonorably discharged, but for some reason the military documents do not say that

And the right says we are crazy?!

And you are I mean do you think the right could have come up with a candidate who actually did all those things? No thats a pure left accomplishment. Be proud this is only like the 4th or 5th liberal candidate you guys have put up thats failed miserably.

 

[Bonnie]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13368&highlight=mystery+surrounds

Well that answers the question I was just about to raise, regarding Kerry releasing all his discharge papers..........Wasn't there supposed to be an official inquiry by the Navy into some of those papers being falsified????

 

[CSM]

Well that answers the question I was just about to raise, regarding Kerry releasing all his discharge papers..........Wasn't there supposed to be an official inquiry by the Navy into some of those papers being falsified????

The investigation was into the documents regarding his medals and awards.

 

[acludem]

Let me restate what I said. I don't care what either of these guys was doing 33 years ago, and I don't think about 85% of the American people give a crap either. Kerry service and Bush's lack thereof should be a wash, no issue, done. Let's focus on what's ahead instead of crap that happened 33 years ago.

As for the requirments to be President, I went by what the Constitution says adding in what you have to do to lose citizenship. Meeting with the government of a nation is not treason, working with or for that government would be and no one can prove Kerry worked with Hanoi. Oh wait....we were never officially at war with Hanoi...well darn, there goes your treason argument even if he did work for them.

acludem

 

[no1tovote4]

Really? How interesting.

Is there anything between a dishonorable and an honorable discharge? Is there a plain old 'discharge'?

It would be an Other Than Honorable, but not a Dishonorable.

 

[Zhukov]

I don't care what either of these guys was doing 33 years ago, and I don't think about 85% of the American people give a crap either.

I'm not so sure. I can think of about 40% who would like to know if Sen. Kerry was dishonorably discharged, if for no other reason than if true it would destroy him.

 

[Bonnie]

Certainly not those of us who already know he is Communist, but for those who are not commie college kids, and have lingering doubts, it may come in handy to know just who they are actually voting for.

 

[musicman]

Let me restate what I said. I don't care what either of these guys was doing 33 years ago, and I don't think about 85% of the American people give a crap either. Kerry service and Bush's lack thereof should be a wash, no issue, done. Let's focus on what's ahead instead of crap that happened 33 years ago.

As for the requirments to be President, I went by what the Constitution says adding in what you have to do to lose citizenship. Meeting with the government of a nation is not treason, working with or for that government would be and no one can prove Kerry worked with Hanoi. Oh wait....we were never officially at war with Hanoi...well darn, there goes your treason argument even if he did work for them.

acludem

"Kerry's service and Bush's lack thereof should be a wash...".

Pretty sly, acludem. You're as subtle as a bare ass on a flagpole. Unfortunately for you, though, your sneaky dishonesty points up exactly why "crap that happened 33 years ago" IS an issue: Democrats have made it so, and have done so in typically disingenuous Democrat fashion. George Bush fulfilled his military obligation. He served honorably. Anyone who doubts that needs only to look at his military record, which he made public by signing Form 180. Only a party which lies as casually and automatically as the Democrats would persist in this nonsense.

We might not have been officially "at war" with Hanoi, but 58,000 dead Americans would seem to indicate that we were involved in considerably more than a "spat" with them. If John Kerry wasn't working to advance Hanoi's goals, why is he honored in Vietnam's war museum? If John Kerry is an AMERICAN WAR HERO, as HE CLAIMS (ceaselessly, unbidden, and to audiences increasingly unsympathetic and contemptuous), why won't he stop all this mean gossip by taking the one simple step that would silence his critics forever? Why won't he sign Form 180?

 

[nosarcasm]

Kerry's service might have been honorable but obviously he went
for the three purple hearts to get out of the war as fast as possible.
That is not a sign of courage or patriotism.

Upon his return home, even if he is convinced that Vietnam is a mistake
it was morally wrong to hype the abuses that happened in the war.
Some of his fellow soldiers were still in enemy hand and it was known
they were tortured and abused for supposed war crimes. Ask Mc Cain.
To focus on "war crimes" by US troops he played into the hand of the
vietcong and gave them fake justification for torture and abuse.

Wrong time wrong approach. His record in congress shows that Kerry
still is an antiwar activist in his heart. This will be perceived as weakness
by the enemy. They will continue or even intensify their terror campaign
to make Kerry (if elected) pull out and go back to an isolationist approach
leaving the regions prone to the Islamo-Fascist movement.

Will Kerry step up and attack Iran if they continue with their Nuke program
I doubt it. If the Iranian feel the same way soon their will be another
Islamic bomb. This will lead to an WMD where other countries will ignore
the nonproliferation treaty and arm themselves to resisit US or other countries
influence.

The last polls I looked at did not look good for Bush, Kerry seems to
be on the offensive and has the momentum the last 4 days. Bush
has to turn it around and focus on Kerry's weakness, he lacks a moral
backbone. Everything is relative in his backbencher world. Clinton
with his " depends on the definition of is" set a low standard. Kerry
is someone that could easily fail to meet it.