Dobbs was the worst thing that could happen to Republicans.

[JoeB131]

What about all those Pregnancy Crisis centers the left wants to shut down because they don't do abortions?

You mean the ones that mislead women into thinking they can get abortion services, and then pressure them into keeping their pregnancies?

Contraception doesn't deal with a unique human life, abortion does. That's why Griswold led to a resolution of the conflict, and Roe didn't.

Roe wasn't a resolution because religious fanatics kept it going, and Republicans indulged them. Let's not forget that 5 of the seven justices who voted for Roe were Ike and Nixon appointees. Of the eight justices appointed by Republicans since then, five of them upheld Roe as sensible law. Until Trump appointed religious crazies to replace the sensible justices, that is.

Roe's mistake was getting involved in the issue at all. Now we are going to have go through the conflict that should have been kept on conflicting back in the 70's and up till now. Roe wasn't a WWII ending, it was a WWI ending.

No, Roe struck down laws that were being ignored and were doing more damage than good. It only became an issue because the religious crazies made it one.

The gift of a free society, something I know you despise.

An intimate medical decision being made by a politician is not a free society, dipshit.

 

[AMart]

Before Dobbs, the Republicans could placate the Religious Right and Social Conservatives by speaking out against Abortion. This was essentially harmless. With Roe as the law of the land, there was no hope of actually doing anything. And best of all, the Republicans couldn’t be blamed for doing nothing. The Supreme Court had ruled and the poor politicians were powerless to do anything about it.

So some fool in the audience screams that “Abortion is Murder” and the politician could agree and lament about how awful it was and it’s a shame the Supremes gave us this awful ruling.

Then Dobbs came and the Republicans got what they said they wanted. Only, it’s not going the way they wanted.

Abortions After Dobbs (Published 2023)

The number of legal abortions has held steady, if not increased, after the Supreme Court’s ruling.

www.nytimes.com

Abortions have remained the same, and indications are that there has been an increase since Dobbs.

So the stated goal to stop abortions, has failed. They are about the same and even possibly increasing. So the “have to save lives” mentality is taking it right on the nose.

For decades polling indicated that most people supported a woman’s right to choose. The Anti Abortion people swore that these were push polls. They were fiction. These polls were lies. A vast majority wanted to save the unborn babies.

Even when Abortion was an issue in an election, the Republican would win. But nobody stopped to consider it might be because the voters didn’t think the politician could do anything about the issue.

Now of course we are in a post Dobbs world. The problem is that the Republicans don’t know what to do. It turns out the polls were right. The majority of voters actually are pro choice. In the meantime the Republicans have become defined by fierce opposition to Abortion.

It is worse for Trump. He proudly announced he had done this. He had packed the court with anti abortion Judges who overturned Roe.

The Republicans are now demanding that the important issues, the ones that matter are the economy, and immigration, and the deficit. The voters appear to think Abortion is pretty important.

Abortion = less future democrat voters and criminals. You guys are jacking off about 1 fucking state.

 

[HikerGuy83]

The only effective way to reduce abortions is to reduce the number of pregnancies.

Absolutely correct. And that is what you would want anyway (IME). I really don't like legal constrictions in this issue. Reducing abortions is a long term campaign that results in fewer women making choices (their choices) that result in unwanted pregnancies.

But this is the side that the anti-abortion people never talk about

Not sure what you mean by anti-abortion people. I talk about it all the time. My general context is that fighting the battle at the abortion clinic is like a goal line stand. We need to move the conversation to the 50 yard line and give it some room. It's not choosing to have an abortion. It's choosing to engage in activities in a way that results in an unwanted pregnancy (and no this isn't the....don't want a kid....cross your legs argument).

But I talk about it with people all the time.

 

[HikerGuy83]

You mean the ones that mislead women into thinking they can get abortion services, and then pressure them into keeping their pregnancies?

Is this a chronic issue ?

 

[martybegan]

Ridiculous and specious.
Until viability the FETUS is not a separate organism.
Unless you wish to properly classify the fetus as a parasite.


The only valid arguments for restricting abortion prior to viability are safety and efficacy.

Anything else is just men exercising their desire to own and control women.

And you wonder why you lose elections.

It has separate DNA, and something of your own species can't be a parasite.

Kind of like letting women be beaten by men in their own sports, and thinking women can have penises?

 

[martybegan]

If a one year old dies while with their mother there is an investigation done to see why. Should this happen for every miscarriage?

Of course not. Miscarriages aren't abortions.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Absolutely correct. And that is what you would want anyway (IME). I really don't like legal constrictions in this issue. Reducing abortions is a long term campaign that results in fewer women making choices (their choices) that result in unwanted pregnancies.



Not sure what you mean by anti-abortion people. I talk about it all the time. My general context is that fighting the battle at the abortion clinic is like a goal line stand. We need to move the conversation to the 50 yard line and give it some room. It's not choosing to have an abortion. It's choosing to engage in activities in a way that results in an unwanted pregnancy (and no this isn't the....don't want a kid....cross your legs argument).

Well said all around. Thanks!

But I talk about it with people all the time.

You are the exception

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Of course not. Miscarriages aren't abortions.

So, you are saying there is a difference between the baby in the womb and the baby after the birth

 

[martybegan]

You mean the ones that mislead women into thinking they can get abortion services, and then pressure them into keeping their pregnancies?




Roe wasn't a resolution because religious fanatics kept it going, and Republicans indulged them. Let's not forget that 5 of the seven justices who voted for Roe were Ike and Nixon appointees. Of the eight justices appointed by Republicans since then, five of them upheld Roe as sensible law. Until Trump appointed religious crazies to replace the sensible justices, that is.



No, Roe struck down laws that were being ignored and were doing more damage than good. It only became an issue because the religious crazies made it one.


An intimate medical decision being made by a politician is not a free society, dipshit.

Show where any of them is misleading anyone.

Your fellow citizens, who have every right to their viewpoints. Deal with it, closet Nazi.

Plenty of secular arguments for restrictions on abortion.

 

[martybegan]

So, you are saying there is a difference between the baby in the womb and the baby after the birth

Who has ever said there isn't? The thing is the difference is meaningless when it comes to it being a unique life and organism, and that's the point abortion rights fanatics never get about their opponents.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Who has ever said there isn't?

Most pro-life people. You are the first I have seen admit there is a difference

The thing is the difference is meaningless when it comes to it being a unique life and organism,

true.

 

[SavannahMann]

Abortion = less future democrat voters and criminals. You guys are jacking off about 1 fucking state.

I hate to steal this. But why not.

Every word you just said was wrong.

It wasn’t one state. It was Ohio, Virginia, Wisconsin, Kansas, and the list goes on.

Why was Abortion legal until the first law was passed in 1821?

Why were the founders of the opinion that it was a woman’s body and her choice?

It’s understandable that a person can be ignorant. But you are really overdoing it.

 

[martybegan]

Most pro-life people. You are the first I have seen admit there is a difference



true.

Again, the difference doesn't matter. While I would prefer birth control abortions be banned, my libertarian side compels me to accept 10-14 weeks as a good limit for that. Which also covers the whole rape thing.

And honestly I don't know why incest is considered different. Non consensual incest is still rape, and a rape exception covers that. And are we talking about forcing abortions on people who have consensual incestuous sex?

 

[justoffal]

Actually, it's more often the conservative woman who is seeking an abortion because she refuses to use other contraception.

The liberal gal is making her boy wear a rubber, and she's taking a pill.

When I was in the service, one of my fellow NCOs had a girlfriend. Asian-American, very Catholic, who decided that because her boyfriend wasn't making good on his promise to marry her after she gave it up, decided to stop using contraception. When the cad refused to marry her, she got an abortion because she didn't want her parents to know she wasn't still a virgin at 22.

All very nice..... But still she's not address the rights or lack thereof of the unborn.

 

[Dadoalex]

It has separate DNA, and something of your own species can't be a parasite.

Kind of like letting women be beaten by men in their own sports, and thinking women can have penises?

Parasitic behavior is not DNA related.

It is either part of the mother in which case any decisions are hers to make
or
It is a parasite and removing parasites is always in the best interest of the host.

And why are you introducing penises? Not related to the conversation in any way other than a blatant attempt to derail the thread.

 

[martybegan]

Parasitic behavior is not DNA related.

It is either part of the mother in which case any decisions are hers to make
or
It is a parasite and removing parasites is always in the best interest of the host.

And why are you introducing penises? Not related to the conversation in any way other than a blatant attempt to derail the thread.

Parasites aren't a natural offspring of the host organism. Just more rationalizing of killing something.

It's supported by the mother, but not part of her. Procreation is not parasitism.

Just showing the hypocrisy about you saying you "support" women.

 

[Mac1958]

Maybe one of these days the parties will learn that winning an election is not a "mandate" to shove their agendas down everyone's throat.

Ha ha, just kidding. They won't learn that.

 

[1srelluc]

Except your party ran on banning the practice altogether.

The only guard rail should be what the woman and her doctor decide upon. Everyone else should mind their own fucking business.

I really don't care one way or the other....Not my monkey, not my circus.....I just want it to be a non-issue going forward to get the abortion monkey off the gop's back.....After all, that's all the dems have to run on.

 

[martybegan]

Maybe one of these days the parties will learn that winning an election is not a "mandate" to shove their agendas down everyone's throat.

Ha ha, just kidding. They won't learn that.

So the winners of elections should not try to pass anything, or pass what their opposition wants?

Dumb statement is dumb.

 

[Dadoalex]

Parasites aren't a natural offspring of the host organism. Just more rationalizing of killing something.

It's supported by the mother, but not part of her. Procreation is not parasitism.

Just showing the hypocrisy about you saying you "support" women.

A fetus meets every definition of a parasite.
The fetus is either part of the woman, demonstrable since it cannot survive outside the parasitic environment, in which case the woman has sole decision making authority.
or
The fetus is a parasite, demonstrable because of the damage the parasite does to the host, in which case removing the parasite is good for the health of the host.

That you think you should have any say in the matter shows your disdain for women and the fact you want to use the government to force your clearly religious views on women shows what a sorry hypocrite you are.