Do You Support The "Gun Show Loophole?"

[Oddball]

Criminals aren't given much choice when using the gun allows it to be traced to them. When possessing an unregistered gun has it's own punishment, it isn't worth having around.

Guns built from scratch have no serial numbers to register, nitwit.

The more this thread goes on, the more it becomes evident who knows about guns and who probably wouldn't know which end of a weapon to point where.

 

[martybegan]

You don't know, so what's the difference. Gun shows aren't all the same. The real point is people who oppose universal or gun show background checks aren't interested in solving the problems of our open gun market.

The potential exists to resell a weapon at a gun show to someone who can't pass a background check and just because it's illegal doesn't mean there is a way of catching someone doing it or that a gun show doesn't promote doing it.

Sensible gun control laws would require registration of all firearms from the time of manufacturing and sales involving transfer of registration, which would always require a background check. Let me explain it in simple terms! Every gun from the time of manufacture is registered with an ID. The registration can be transferred to an organization or individual, but the organization has to be something like the military or law enforcement. Every gun is registered and checked each year to determine the same person owns it. The rifled firearms are periodically ballistics tested with the bullets being sent to FBI for scanning and the data is put in a data base. The FBI can work out a quick scan process. People would think twice before using a gun in a crime and the reason to possess a gun on the streets of our cities would fade away.

It's the nature of criminals to draw heat, so possessing an illegal firearm should be dealt with severely, when they've drawn heat. Let's say the cops find a firearm in the residence of someone suspected for a crime. I doubt a criminal wipes down his weapon everytime he touches it, so fingerprints can be lifted connecting a person to the weapon. A weapon could be associated with any type of crime the police would get a search warrant for and listed on the warrant.

I haven't been advocating these piecemeal, feelgood changes in the law, but have advocated a comprehensive approach that reduces gun violence and discourages illegal ownership of guns. Closing the gun show loophole is just a small part of what should be done.

And criminals will obey all of that.

Criminals aren't given much choice when using the gun allows it to be traced to them. When possessing an unregistered gun has it's own punishment, it isn't worth having around.

So some guy about to commit armed robbery is going to worry about the gun he has being UNREGISTERED?????

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


[ame=http://youtu.be/FopyRHHlt3M]Laugh harder - YouTube[/ame]

 

[martybegan]

Criminals aren't given much choice when using the gun allows it to be traced to them. When possessing an unregistered gun has it's own punishment, it isn't worth having around.

Guns built from scratch have no serial numbers to register, nitwit.

The more this thread goes on, the more it becomes evident who knows about guns and who probably wouldn't know which end of a weapon to point where.

Oh wait! you can know it from the ballistics because dubya would require a testfire to record the rifling...

Of course anyone with a nail file could change that... but its the thought that counts!!!!

 

[Dubya]

And, here is a point that I'd like to know the answer to:

Why are private sellers exempt from the same sort of rules that licensed gun sellers must follow in the first place?

Better question: Why are dealers and law abiding citizens put through the whole background check Kabuki dance, when it's demonstrably ineffective at keeping firearms out of the hands of criminals?

The only reason I can see for this loophole to exist is to put guns in the hands of people that shouldn't have guns.

Then I would suggest that you have a severe, quite possibly debilitating, case of myopia.

How can you claim it is ineffective? How can you know what the gun crime rate would be without any background checks?

 

[Oddball]

And, here is a point that I'd like to know the answer to:

Why are private sellers exempt from the same sort of rules that licensed gun sellers must follow in the first place?

Better question: Why are dealers and law abiding citizens put through the whole background check Kabuki dance, when it's demonstrably ineffective at keeping firearms out of the hands of criminals?

The only reason I can see for this loophole to exist is to put guns in the hands of people that shouldn't have guns.

Then I would suggest that you have a severe, quite possibly debilitating, case of myopia.

How can you claim it is ineffective? How can you know what the gun crime rate would be without any background checks?

I know that the cities with the tightest gun control laws have the highest murder rates.

I also know that that none of the perps of the mass shootings that has a bug up the asses of all of you bedwetting lolberals went through a background check to get their weapons.

Background checks are completely ineffective....Period.

 

[Dubya]

Criminals aren't given much choice when using the gun allows it to be traced to them. When possessing an unregistered gun has it's own punishment, it isn't worth having around.

Guns built from scratch have no serial numbers to register, nitwit.

The more this thread goes on, the more it becomes evident who knows about guns and who probably wouldn't know which end of a weapon to point where.

How many gun crimes are the result of guns built from scratch? Show me in the stats!

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

 

[Oddball]

Criminals aren't given much choice when using the gun allows it to be traced to them. When possessing an unregistered gun has it's own punishment, it isn't worth having around.

Guns built from scratch have no serial numbers to register, nitwit.

The more this thread goes on, the more it becomes evident who knows about guns and who probably wouldn't know which end of a weapon to point where.

How many gun crimes are the result of guns built from scratch? Show me in the stats!

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Doesn't matter...Guns made form scratch would easily avoid the registration process.

BTW, dumbass, it's illegal to transfer any gun made from scratch...Therefore, the person selling or giving away said weapon would be on the hook for a felony.

Just admit that you haven't the first bloody idea of what you're blabbering about....It's readily evident to those of us who do know.

 

[martybegan]

Criminals aren't given much choice when using the gun allows it to be traced to them. When possessing an unregistered gun has it's own punishment, it isn't worth having around.

Guns built from scratch have no serial numbers to register, nitwit.

The more this thread goes on, the more it becomes evident who knows about guns and who probably wouldn't know which end of a weapon to point where.

How many gun crimes are the result of guns built from scratch? Show me in the stats!

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Figure out your mythical way of universal background checks stopping them from buying them, and they will go that route. Cartels already know how to make drugs which is pretty advanced chemistry. Do your really think a little machining and metallurgy is beyond them?

 

[Dubya]

Better question: Why are dealers and law abiding citizens put through the whole background check Kabuki dance, when it's demonstrably ineffective at keeping firearms out of the hands of criminals?



Then I would suggest that you have a severe, quite possibly debilitating, case of myopia.

How can you claim it is ineffective? How can you know what the gun crime rate would be without any background checks?

I know that the cities with the tightest gun control laws have the highest murder rates.

I also know that that none of the perps of the mass shootings that has a bug up the asses of all of you bedwetting lolberals went through a background check to get their weapons.

Background checks are completely ineffective....Period.

How could you know that since it isn't true? Post how you have learned such a thing!

NYC has tough gun control laws and a very low gun crime rate. Even Chicago's rate, with all those areas to purchase guns near it, isn't in the top ten. From what I recall of the data I've seen New Orleans stands out and it is forbidden to have tougher gun control laws than the state. Louisiana has the highest gun crime rate in the country.

 

[Dubya]

Guns built from scratch have no serial numbers to register, nitwit.

The more this thread goes on, the more it becomes evident who knows about guns and who probably wouldn't know which end of a weapon to point where.

How many gun crimes are the result of guns built from scratch? Show me in the stats!

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Figure out your mythical way of universal background checks stopping them from buying them, and they will go that route. Cartels already know how to make drugs which is pretty advanced chemistry. Do your really think a little machining and metallurgy is beyond them?

My background is Chemistry and meth isn't "advanced chemistry" as you claim. It's rather simple.

You know you have been told how to stop criminals from getting gun, so it involves more than universal background checks or stopping the gun show loophole. It's foolish to think criminals are going to make their own guns to replace a lost supply.

 

[martybegan]

How many gun crimes are the result of guns built from scratch? Show me in the stats!

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Figure out your mythical way of universal background checks stopping them from buying them, and they will go that route. Cartels already know how to make drugs which is pretty advanced chemistry. Do your really think a little machining and metallurgy is beyond them?

My background is Chemistry and meth isn't "advanced chemistry" as you claim. It's rather simple.

You know you have been told how to stop criminals from getting gun, so it involves more than universal background checks or stopping the gun show loophole. It's foolish to think criminals are going to make their own guns to replace a lost supply.

No cartels will make it an supply it, like in prohibition of alcohol.

 

[martybegan]

How can you claim it is ineffective? How can you know what the gun crime rate would be without any background checks?

I know that the cities with the tightest gun control laws have the highest murder rates.

I also know that that none of the perps of the mass shootings that has a bug up the asses of all of you bedwetting lolberals went through a background check to get their weapons.

Background checks are completely ineffective....Period.

How could you know that since it isn't true? Post how you have learned such a thing!

NYC has tough gun control laws and a very low gun crime rate. Even Chicago's rate, with all those areas to purchase guns near it, isn't in the top ten. From what I recall of the data I've seen New Orleans stands out and it is forbidden to have tougher gun control laws than the state. Louisiana has the highest gun crime rate in the country.

NYC's gun laws are oppressive. And we have tons of illegal guns on the streets as well as more shootings per capita than places with more guns and less people.

People also have bars on thier windows and multiple locks on thier doors to keep out the criminals.

 

[martybegan]

How many gun crimes are the result of guns built from scratch? Show me in the stats!

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Figure out your mythical way of universal background checks stopping them from buying them, and they will go that route. Cartels already know how to make drugs which is pretty advanced chemistry. Do your really think a little machining and metallurgy is beyond them?

My background is Chemistry and meth isn't "advanced chemistry" as you claim. It's rather simple.

You know you have been told how to stop criminals from getting gun, so it involves more than universal background checks or stopping the gun show loophole. It's foolish to think criminals are going to make their own guns to replace a lost supply.

If it was so simple, why dont the methheads make it themselves.

It takes a lab and the ability to make it without blowing yourself up. Gun and bullet making are childs play by comparision.

 

[Oddball]

How many gun crimes are the result of guns built from scratch? Show me in the stats!

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Figure out your mythical way of universal background checks stopping them from buying them, and they will go that route. Cartels already know how to make drugs which is pretty advanced chemistry. Do your really think a little machining and metallurgy is beyond them?

My background is Chemistry and meth isn't "advanced chemistry" as you claim. It's rather simple.

You know you have been told how to stop criminals from getting gun, so it involves more than universal background checks or stopping the gun show loophole. It's foolish to think criminals are going to make their own guns to replace a lost supply.

How did any of that stop the shooters and Columbine, Paducah, Jonesboro, Sandy Hook, Aurora, Vista Ridge Mall, or any one of the other tens of thousands of gangland shootings that happen across the country every year?

C'mon...Dazzle us.

 

[The Rabbi]

You don't know, so what's the difference. Gun shows aren't all the same. The real point is people who oppose universal or gun show background checks aren't interested in solving the problems of our open gun market.

The potential exists to resell a weapon at a gun show to someone who can't pass a background check and just because it's illegal doesn't mean there is a way of catching someone doing it or that a gun show doesn't promote doing it.

Sensible gun control laws would require registration of all firearms from the time of manufacturing and sales involving transfer of registration, which would always require a background check. Let me explain it in simple terms! Every gun from the time of manufacture is registered with an ID. The registration can be transferred to an organization or individual, but the organization has to be something like the military or law enforcement. Every gun is registered and checked each year to determine the same person owns it. The rifled firearms are periodically ballistics tested with the bullets being sent to FBI for scanning and the data is put in a data base. The FBI can work out a quick scan process. People would think twice before using a gun in a crime and the reason to possess a gun on the streets of our cities would fade away.

It's the nature of criminals to draw heat, so possessing an illegal firearm should be dealt with severely, when they've drawn heat. Let's say the cops find a firearm in the residence of someone suspected for a crime. I doubt a criminal wipes down his weapon everytime he touches it, so fingerprints can be lifted connecting a person to the weapon. A weapon could be associated with any type of crime the police would get a search warrant for and listed on the warrant.

I haven't been advocating these piecemeal, feelgood changes in the law, but have advocated a comprehensive approach that reduces gun violence and discourages illegal ownership of guns. Closing the gun show loophole is just a small part of what should be done.

And criminals will obey all of that.

Criminals aren't given much choice when using the gun allows it to be traced to them. When possessing an unregistered gun has it's own punishment, it isn't worth having around.

What criminal is going to use a gun that can be traced to him? Since he is prohibited to begin with, he isn't going through any legal channels to obtain it. He'll get a gun thast has been stolen from someone else in exchange for a bag of pot or whatnot. The way they always do.
Libs just aren't very good at thinking this through, are they?

 

[Oddball]

• Without a gun registration process, there is no way to know who sold what weapon to whom.
  
  
• Without mandatory background checks, private gun sellers can always claim ignorance of the fact that a person is a felon.
  
  
• And Republicans have effectively hamstrung enforcement of existing gun laws.

If we could track where the criminal were getting their guns, and actually hold them responsible, then said illegal gun sales would decrease exponentially, as private gun sellers would actually pay attention to who they were selling their guns to, or face jail time.

I continuously hear people talking about how gun control would be ineffective because criminals will get weapons anyway...

And they're right. I agree that stopping the sale of guns is not the answer.

But where do you think the criminals are getting them from?

How do background checks of law abiding people impede thieves and black marketers?

It should be simple to understand. But that is a reach for you Jethro.

As citizens, we can't stop a criminal from buying an illegal firearm from the trunk of another criminal in some dark alley. But we CAN stop criminals from buying weapons in the light of day in the safe, secure setting of a public gun show.

In some dark alley IS WHERE a criminal should be forced to buy a gun. In a totally illegal setting, with all the inherent dangers that come with it. BUT, our current laws sanction criminals being able to walk into a gun show, receive expert advice, discounts, then buy whatever weapon(s) they desire without a background check or having to pay black market prices or risk the dangers of buying a weapon from another criminal in a dark alley.

So, you're admitting that background checks do nothing to deter criminals....I'll take the victory where I can get it.

Oh, and there's nothing at all stopping people with ill intent from going to gun shows and getting expert advice and instructions....And criminals don't give a shit about discounts.

Another nitwit who doesn't know the fist damned thing about guns or gun shows.

 

[The Rabbi]

How can you claim it is ineffective? How can you know what the gun crime rate would be without any background checks?

I know that the cities with the tightest gun control laws have the highest murder rates.

I also know that that none of the perps of the mass shootings that has a bug up the asses of all of you bedwetting lolberals went through a background check to get their weapons.

Background checks are completely ineffective....Period.

How could you know that since it isn't true? Post how you have learned such a thing!

NYC has tough gun control laws and a very low gun crime rate. Even Chicago's rate, with all those areas to purchase guns near it, isn't in the top ten. From what I recall of the data I've seen New Orleans stands out and it is forbidden to have tougher gun control laws than the state. Louisiana has the highest gun crime rate in the country.

Illinois is ranked 31 in gun crime. CA is ranked 30. D.C is ranked #1 and Vermont, which has no gun laws beyond Federal is at 34.
Ergo there is no correlation between stricter gun laws and deaths by firearms.

 

[martybegan]

And criminals will obey all of that.

Criminals aren't given much choice when using the gun allows it to be traced to them. When possessing an unregistered gun has it's own punishment, it isn't worth having around.

What criminal is going to use a gun that can be traced to him? Since he is prohibited to begin with, he isn't going through any legal channels to obtain it. He'll get a gun thast has been stolen from someone else in exchange for a bag of pot or whatnot. The way they always do.
Libs just aren't very good at thinking this through, are they?

Smart ones will, dumb ones won't care, and if they are on the lam and living off the cash they are stealing, knowing who they are isnt much of a help. Not refuting you Rabbi, just saying dubya's arguement doesnt work either way you look at it.

 

[whitehall]

I'm a "right winger" and I have been to a few dozen gun shows and I can't seem to figure out what the "loophole" issue is all about. The last couple of gun shows had a State Trooper on duty and the gun show sellers were busy requiring two types of ID and a criminal name check. Maybe the left wing sissies should actually visit a gun show before they post their ignorant crap. Gun shows seem to require more verification than the democrats required for their presidential candidate.

 

[Oddball]

I'm a "right winger" and I have been to a few dozen gun shows and I can't seem to figure out what the "loophole" issue is all about. The last couple of gun shows had a State Trooper on duty and the gun show sellers were busy requiring two types of ID and a criminal name check. Maybe the left wing sissies should actually visit a gun show before they post their ignorant crap. Gun shows seem to require more verification than the democrats required for their presidential candidate.

They're idiots who haven't been within 500 yards of a gun show -probably never even so much as had a weapon in their hands in their entire lives- and it shows in this thread.