Do you believe in Democracy? Ukrainian edition

[OldFlame]

Lmao!

Triggered you so badly that you went around digging up my threads.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Just showing you are a liar.

 

[GLASNOST]

..... It doesn't matter who started shit,

It matters to me because it already affects my life and my family.

I just don't understand why US has to involve herself in foreign wars. .

In this case as with all (?) of them since the end of WW II it's all about the MIC.

Yes, Russia invaded Ukraine. They are the aggressors.

Not true. Not at all true. I can tell you why it's not true but I think you already know ..... but you don't want to believe it.

 

[MayorQuimby]

I think an argument could be made that Russia reacted to the POTENTIAL of being surrounded by NATO countries and they felt they needed to proactively cushion their border and secure their warm water port... I've made that argument myself.

Naw.

"The potential of", when someone says this, I know there is a good chance that they are white. White people are smart in a lot of ways, but in some aspects they are hopelessly retarded.

Putin was not reacting to any "potential" whatever. He was reacting to what he perceived as bad intentions of NATO. Now, you can argue about whether his reaction was appropriate or not, what you can't deny is that, he perceived bad intent, and so he acted. It was not because of something rational like, "Hmm. I have calculated the odds, and it appears to me that there is a good chance (aka, potential) of something bad happening, so I am gonna ___".

But that doesn't absolve them of launching an unprovoked war of aggression that is responsible for escalating a regional conflict to all out conventional war that has cost hundreds of thousands of lives.

I'd say NATO had been provoking Russia, but just not in a traditional way, as in, they were technically not sending armies in to Russia..etc.

It's dumb to say "unprovoked", anyway, Any time there is armed conflict between nations, if you go back far enough, you will reach a point where you can identify the country who, "started" the fight, which technically makes it the unprovoked aggressor. But, I am pretty sure that there are other things, that happened prior to that, that led up to their "unprovoked" attack.

 

[Missourian]

Then I suppose you should run with it.

As is mine.

My former military education relies on propaganda alone, however my Cold War knowledge is based (mostly) upon personal experience. I have been to every East and West European nation through the Cold War and I actually lived in Berlin during that time. My military experience was 1965-1968 (Vietnam 1966-67) and although I was employed with the RAF in Berlin in the late 1970s I was, none-the-less a civilian there. Actually, none of this offers any qualification for this subject. What I think is much more insightful is the fact that I am European and I live here. I have personal experience in every one of the countries involved in this Russia-Ukraine-EU-US mish-mash. Then, of course, there are the sources of real time reports. Does that carry any weight? Maybe not but it cannot be pushed aside by contradictory Western MSM. Why do I say that? Because my preferred sources motivate their findings ..... that is to say, once explained it makes sense. The Western media is mostly fist-pounding on tables and "ignore the lies we've been telling you" since the end of WW II.

At the end of all of this we will have said everything we want to say and we will be left with "my source" against "your source". Right?

I would say my beliefs on the underlying causes of the war run contrary to the vast majority of Western Sources.

My opinions on the strategic and tactical realities of the conflict are my own and not in any way informed by sources other experience and knowledge.

Since we basically agree on the broad interpretation of the situation, I believe that reinforces my position.

What specific assumptions do you take umbridge with?

That together Europe could defeat Russia in conventional warfare?

 

[GLASNOST]

... It seems to me that the EU has seen too many Hollywood films about the US storming the beaches to rescue Europe.

However .....

There are two things to argue:
1). Would they be justified in fighting FOR something [Ukraine]? The answer is
2). Would they be justifed in fighting AGAINST something [Russia]? The answer is

Complex .

Yes.

But the three Chabad members will sort it to maximum Deep State satisfaction ---but consistent with leaving the opportunity for more wars -- be they connected to current Ukraine, or , as a trade - off for a defined Middle East position within the Greater Israel project .

You simply have three Theatre players acting their roles with a script that the Sheeple Herd still has not fathomed .

Most definitely.

I continue to believe that it remains the case that the US will be bankrupted with a new structure emerging .

That would be lovely.

 

[MisterBeale]

Honestly, I believe that Europe, for all their talk, are smart enough to see that a war with Russia is a no win situation.

Yup.

They don't want to have the desires of Britain's aristocracy affect their welfare states.

Now that the U.S. is done with this lost cause, they are finding excuses to withdraw while trying not to look like hypocrites.

EU approves reduced $3.7 billion in Ukraine Facility aid amid reform delays​

August 8, 2025 11:22 pm

EU approves reduced $3.7 billion in Ukraine Facility aid amid reform delays

The EU Council approved a regular tranche payment of 3.2 billion euros ($3.7 billion) under the Ukraine Facility mechanism on Aug. 8, a smaller amount than initially planned due to Kyiv's failure to complete key reforms.

kyivindependent.com

E.U. Cuts Aid to Ukraine Over Corruption Concerns​

The $1.7 billion reduction capped a tough week for President Volodymyr Zelensky as he deals with Ukraine’s governance issues.
July 26, 2025

https://archive.ph/jnMoN

EU to Reduce Ukraine Support Over Unmet Reform Targets​

The EU will for the first time reduce support to Ukraine from its war fund, after Kyiv has not lived up to the conditions, announces the EU Commission.
July 29 2025

EU to Reduce Ukraine Support Over Unmet Reform Targets | Sweden Herald

The EU will for the first time reduce support to Ukraine from its war fund, after Kyiv has not lived up to the conditions, announces the EU Commission

swedenherald.com

EU to Make Reduced Aid Payout to Ukraine Due to Lagging Reforms​

July 29, 2025

https://archive.ph/m90kh#selection-1415.0-1415.13

 

[irosie91]

However .....


Yes.

Most definitely.

That would be lovely.

sheeeeesh----the NEW DEICIDE LIBEL----"deep state chabad"

 

[GLASNOST]

Since we basically agree on the broad interpretation of the situation, I believe that reinforces my position.

What specific assumptions do you take umbridge with?

I hope I haven't given you that thought.

That together Europe could defeat Russia in conventional warfare?

I think we disagree on that. We wouldnj't stand a chance against Russia. We are video game warriors - Russians are "hands on".

 

[GLASNOST]

Now that the U.S. is done with this lost cause, they are finding excuses to withdraw while trying not to look like hypocrites.

This, I believe, is what MAGA is all about.

 

[PeterPilot]

Putin is the one who isn't trying diplomacy, idiot.

That is an ignorantly false statement. Putin and Russia have been trying to find a diplomatice solution for 15 years. NATO and the US are the aggressors, and that's old news.

 

[Missourian]

I hope I haven't given you that thought.

I think we disagree on that. We wouldnj't stand a chance against Russia. We are video game warriors - Russians are "hands on".

That's what I believed about Russia vs Ukraine three years ago.

I now no longer believe Russia is conventionally as formidable as they previously projected.

 

[MayorQuimby]

That's what I believed about Russia vs Ukraine three years ago.

I now no longer believe Russia is conventionally as formidable as they previously projected.

Hi Misso:

Did you see my post #43? I would love to hear what you have to say, thanks.

 

[JimH52]

MSN

​

But Yuriy Boyechko, CEO of Hope for Ukraine, a charity that helps frontline communities in the war-torn country, told Newsweek that Trump agreeing to meet with Putin without any preconditions plays directly into Russia's hands.

Putin will end his diplomatic isolation by meeting with the president of the world's largest democracy, while there has been no mention of secondary sanctions, which Trump had threatened would be imposed from last Friday, Boyechko said.

​

trump has not plans going into the illegal meeting with Putin on Friday. His assertion that Putin has 50 days for a cease fire have turned into, "Hey, let's talk." This is exactly what Putin wants. He comes out of diplomatic isolation and meets an American president on US soil. It is embarrassing. It is easy to see where this is going. Putin and trump agree on a land swap...Zelensky disagrees and trump blames Zelensky for his failure to get his peace prize.

 

[martybegan]

MSN

​

But Yuriy Boyechko, CEO of Hope for Ukraine, a charity that helps frontline communities in the war-torn country, told Newsweek that Trump agreeing to meet with Putin without any preconditions plays directly into Russia's hands.

Putin will end his diplomatic isolation by meeting with the president of the world's largest democracy, while there has been no mention of secondary sanctions, which Trump had threatened would be imposed from last Friday, Boyechko said.

​

trump has not plans going into the illegal meeting with Putin on Friday. He assertion that Putin has 50 days for a cease fire have turned into, "Hey, let's talk." This is exactly what Putin wants. He comes out of diplomatic isolation and meets and American president on US soil. It is embarrassing. It is easy to see where this is going. Putin and trump agree on a land swap...Zelensky disagrees and trump blames Zelensky for his failure to get his peace prize.

How is the meeting illegal? What law is being broken?

 

[GLASNOST]

I now no longer believe Russia is conventionally as formidable as they previously projected.

You have given me the impression that your military training (and experience) in planning (for example) was/is superior to mine. I think that's true, isn't it? So, I am a little bit surprised that you are not taking Russian strategy into consideration. Do you play chess? I do, but I don't enjoy playing. Anyway, the side that captures the king wins. How many queens, and rooks, and bishops and knights and pawns that left on the board are insignificant. THINK NOW: What are Putin's goals? Don't make me tell you. I'm sure you can figure it out. Putin is WAY AHEAD of everyone else. Don't be distracted by a little "razzle dazzle" in the periphery. Keep your eyes on the prize.

 

[Donald H]

The question can't be just ignored any longer. Putin/Russia is close to finishing off the long sufrering Ukrainian people and America is close to not being able to deny it's defeat!

Not to even need to consider that the Zionist regime being stripped of its ability to attack Iran.

Both situations call for America to risk making a move on Russia!

Is nuclear war now guaranteed?

At least we should all know that Trump is pretending to not take it all seriously. He still thinks that Russia and the Brics are Libya!

America and Trump are MRGA.

 

[Donald H]

You have given me the impression that your military training (and experience) in planning (for example) was/is superior to mine. I think that's true, isn't it? So, I am a little bit surprised that you are not taking Russian strategy into consideration. Do you play chess? I do, but I don't enjoy playing. Anyway, the side that captures the king wins. How many queens, and rooks, and bishops and knights and pawns that left on the board are insignificant. THINK NOW: What are Putin's goals? Don't make me tell you. I'm sure you can figure it out. Putin is WAY AHEAD of everyone else. Keep your eyes on the prize.

Do you fear that Putin won't make it home from Alaska?

 

[Rogue AI]

How is the meeting illegal? What law is being broken?

Didn't you know? Everything Trump does is illegal in the minds of the TDS afflicted.

 

[JWBooth]

As I stated in another thread:

There is nothing but a little PR for Putin to gain by coming to Alaska. Every day the Ukes advance farther towards the Dnieper in advance of the Russian Army.

 

[GLASNOST]

Do you fear that Putin won't make it home from Alaska?

He'll make it, and a bullet won't even come close to his ear. His body guards are serious people .... none of that DEI crap.