Do You Believe In Civil Rights?

[Contumacious]

There is a world of difference. Because the "civil rights" as espoused by black movement leaders LEAVE out the broader issues in Civil Liberties. Including asset forfeiture, eminent domain, spying on citizens, etc. Have never HEARD the NAACP take those issues to the mat. Even THO --- the first 2 of those DIRECTLY affect the black communities disproportionately.

And you don't do "justice reform" just as a Civil rights issue for the benefit of one class. Just as you don't "fix" Fergusons by declaring the problem to be RACISM.. CLEARLY, the problems in Ferguson stem largely by failure of govt. NOT by racism..

Groups and organizations tend to address the issues and/or problems that affect them most. So perhaps your argument shouldn't be that there is a difference, but that they should also address those issues you brought to the fore. Yes?

That's not productive if "civil rights" means different things to different groups. Civil Liberties apply to ALL. And if the causes of grievances are not truely racism -- all this is better addressed from a BROADER coalition of interests.

Lets look at asset forfeiture for instance. Entire black community in the Deep South is raided by BATF and DEA and FBI. Town is dirt poor and 99% black. COWS are confiscated without trial. Tractors, farms and money is confiscated without trial. Entire TOWN is ransacked because of alleged drug violations.. We could on about how urban black communities are targeting for eminent domain because they are a cheap target. But it's not PRIMARILY a race issue is it? Although when Sharpton or the NAACP picks this up -- they re-brand it as "environmental justice" with a DISTINCTIVE racial overtone. Not MY preferences bud. I'm on board with ALL of this. Not just the stuff YOU want to paint as racial or Civil Rights.

Are those previous examples a Civil Rights issue because of RACISM -- or is it a larger Civil Liberty issue? You made it sound that I was some kind of primadonna only caring about MY hide. But true Civil Libertarians are working these abuses for the benefit of EVERYONE. And a lot of credibility would be gained by "black causes" if they spent less falsely claiming that most of this abuses are racial --- and not universal crime, justice, and fairness issues.

But civil rights DOESN'T mean different things to different people. It only has ONE definition. Perhaps SOME people simply wish it to be what it is not.

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While civil rights has a textbook definition, it does mean different things to different people in the application of it. Some think civil rights involves providing special treatment to certain groups because of the past.

When you say "some" , what you really mean is yourself. I sure don't mean anything other than the dictionary definition.

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Do I have a CIVIL RIGHT to have you motherfuckers respect the US president elect by refraining from recruiting the CIA to depose or murder him?

.

 

[MarcATL]

Do you believe that civil rights needs more attention, or it already have had enough and it's time to move on?

Why/why not?

I don't support the concept of special rights disguised as civil rights as applied today.

Who's getting special rights, and how?

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Current legislation is replete with 'special rights'. We've all but given up on the concept of equal rights under the law, with government cutting a different deal for everyone depending on which interest group they belong to. Powerful minorities and industry groups vie for exemptions and perks.

But, as many here have point out, it's impossible to discuss equal rights under law without first establishing what kind of rights governments should be protecting in the first place.

Cite some examples of those "replete" examples.

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Most 'tax incentives'. Most of the ways we 'enforce' the religion clause of the first amendment, which has been turned on its head - what was originally a call to keep government out of religion has become a special protection for religions that meet government approval. Most of the public accommodations provisions of the "civil rights" law (i.e. the establishment of protected classes). The similar application of "civil rights" laws in regard to employment discrimination. Much of what falls under labor law does this, by granting special rights to members of government approved labor organizations.

Let me know if you need more examples.

You're conflating rights by calling them civil rights. You really mean religious rights.

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[MarcATL]

Do you believe that civil rights needs more attention, or it already have had enough and it's time to move on?

Why/why not?

I don't support the concept of special rights disguised as civil rights as applied today.

Who's getting special rights, and how?

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Anyone that falls into a protected class where the term rights is preceded with (fill in the blank).

Anyone that is hired under programs like affirmative action. If the black color of someone's skin is a factor in any way during the hiring process, that's special.

What rights are they getting that you're not?

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[flacaltenn]

Do you believe that civil rights needs more attention, or it already have had enough and it's time to move on?

Why/why not?

I think all the recent evidence is that there IS oppression. Not so much race based as class based. If you read the Federal report on Ferguson for instance you'll find the MAIN source of oppression is a local govt that had an average of 3 outstanding warrants and 1.5 arrests per household. A system where MOST of those warrants were garbage or clerical errors. A system where someone TRYING to pay off a fine in installments had their money returned and their asses thrown in jail. .

There is a CLEAR pattern of oppression from muni govts that try to run by the SAME rules as wealthier towns or suburbs. And the irony of all that is of course -- that these victims just love them some MORE big muscular govt with piss poor "customer service" and lack of innovation.. And they VOTE that way -- all the ******* time.

That "innovation" has to come from recognizing that problems that LOOK like "racial oppression" are often clearly --- something else entirely.. And it has to come from folks that THINK emancipated and better represented.

Then it IS race based, but this race in this location (as in most) happens to be locked in an endless chain of poverty and crime.

Wilson was lunatic when he emptied his pistol into Brown however.

I can't believe he thought he would get away with this. It has cost him his police career. He is lucky it did not cost him more.

You're missing the larger picture of despair and anger that CREATES anti-law attitudes in those communities. And that is what I was addressing. Ferguson ran their entire "justice system" incompetently and arrogantly. And that problem was NOT "race based".. It's a failure of government that plagues MOST working poor communities in the US. NOT ---- just the black ones. You "cop to" Brown's attitude that got him killed after a LIFETIME of being abused and oppressed by an incompetent justice system. And seeing that abuse eat away at lives in the community. But it's NOT racism.. That's why the SAME attitudes against the justice system prevail in BLACK RUN cities and towns.

In America, Blacks Have Never Been Treated Worse Than They Deserve

You belong to a cult of Bell Curve deniers.

And you might belong in the FRINGES of any Bell Curve.. And not on the "good side" fringe.

There's really no addressing that reply other then bookmarking it for future proof of existence of TRUE racism. You must HATE any discussions on Civil Liberties or Civil Rights. Must IRK you that your hate is not legal to act upon.

Nothing works in a free society without TOLERANCE. No freedom or liberties for anyone because of who they are or what freedoms they choose to exercise.

 

[MarcATL]

"The only problem that I can think of that doesn't exist is voter fraud."

Only Libs would refuse a requirement that a voter be a US citizen to vote in US elections and then complain about foreigners interfering in US elections.

It's a solution in search of a problem. Aka the problem doesn't exist.

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[Meathead]

Who's getting special rights, and how?

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Multi-generational mooching.

 

[MarcATL]

There is a world of difference. Because the "civil rights" as espoused by black movement leaders LEAVE out the broader issues in Civil Liberties. Including asset forfeiture, eminent domain, spying on citizens, etc. Have never HEARD the NAACP take those issues to the mat. Even THO --- the first 2 of those DIRECTLY affect the black communities disproportionately.

And you don't do "justice reform" just as a Civil rights issue for the benefit of one class. Just as you don't "fix" Fergusons by declaring the problem to be RACISM.. CLEARLY, the problems in Ferguson stem largely by failure of govt. NOT by racism..

Groups and organizations tend to address the issues and/or problems that affect them most. So perhaps your argument shouldn't be that there is a difference, but that they should also address those issues you brought to the fore. Yes?

That's not productive if "civil rights" means different things to different groups. Civil Liberties apply to ALL. And if the causes of grievances are not truely racism -- all this is better addressed from a BROADER coalition of interests.

Lets look at asset forfeiture for instance. Entire black community in the Deep South is raided by BATF and DEA and FBI. Town is dirt poor and 99% black. COWS are confiscated without trial. Tractors, farms and money is confiscated without trial. Entire TOWN is ransacked because of alleged drug violations.. We could on about how urban black communities are targeting for eminent domain because they are a cheap target. But it's not PRIMARILY a race issue is it? Although when Sharpton or the NAACP picks this up -- they re-brand it as "environmental justice" with a DISTINCTIVE racial overtone. Not MY preferences bud. I'm on board with ALL of this. Not just the stuff YOU want to paint as racial or Civil Rights.

Are those previous examples a Civil Rights issue because of RACISM -- or is it a larger Civil Liberty issue? You made it sound that I was some kind of primadonna only caring about MY hide. But true Civil Libertarians are working these abuses for the benefit of EVERYONE. And a lot of credibility would be gained by "black causes" if they spent less falsely claiming that most of this abuses are racial --- and not universal crime, justice, and fairness issues.

But civil rights DOESN'T mean different things to different people. It only has ONE definition. Perhaps SOME people simply wish it to be what it is not.

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We're going around the circle here. You just expressed very little interest in Civil Liberties issues that have IMMENSE importance to black americans. Because the "civil rights" label generally precludes MANY Civil Liberty issues.. I can draw you Venn diagram of American Civil Liberty issues, and shade the ones where black people are disproportionately targeted. And BY THE CIVIL RIGHTS scope of interest, they would not be included.

Simple man. There are MILLIONS more serious minded people that would join and march in mutual causes -- if the black community opened up and showed similar anger about EVERYONE's Civil Liberties. And not just "their Right" as a "race"..

I said I don't see the difference between the two. I also agreed that the difference you see should be included into what you currently see going on in the movement.

What more do you want?

Favored classes are unconstitutional. Enforce equality under the law, not favoritism under the law.

Make the Nobility Have No Ability

Outlaw birth privileges then. That will disable the powerful clique that sponsors minorities, attacking the majority from both ends.

What birth privileges?

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[flacaltenn]

That's not productive if "civil rights" means different things to different groups. Civil Liberties apply to ALL. And if the causes of grievances are not truely racism -- all this is better addressed from a BROADER coalition of interests.

Lets look at asset forfeiture for instance. Entire black community in the Deep South is raided by BATF and DEA and FBI. Town is dirt poor and 99% black. COWS are confiscated without trial. Tractors, farms and money is confiscated without trial. Entire TOWN is ransacked because of alleged drug violations.. We could on about how urban black communities are targeting for eminent domain because they are a cheap target. But it's not PRIMARILY a race issue is it? Although when Sharpton or the NAACP picks this up -- they re-brand it as "environmental justice" with a DISTINCTIVE racial overtone. Not MY preferences bud. I'm on board with ALL of this. Not just the stuff YOU want to paint as racial or Civil Rights.

Are those previous examples a Civil Rights issue because of RACISM -- or is it a larger Civil Liberty issue? You made it sound that I was some kind of primadonna only caring about MY hide. But true Civil Libertarians are working these abuses for the benefit of EVERYONE. And a lot of credibility would be gained by "black causes" if they spent less falsely claiming that most of this abuses are racial --- and not universal crime, justice, and fairness issues.

But civil rights DOESN'T mean different things to different people. It only has ONE definition. Perhaps SOME people simply wish it to be what it is not.

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Yep...Civil Rights Movement 2017...kill a cop...vote Democratic.

Link?

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What do those crazy kids have to do with the civil rights movement?

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Thats a DAMN good question. Wanna take a shot at answering your question? Who told them that Ferguson was a "racial issue"? For that matter, how does John Lewis conflate POLITICS/CIA with Civil Rights? There's a lot of noise that "cheapens" real Civil Rights issues. INCLUDING the indoctrinating crap that gets fed in Academia.

 

[MarcATL]

But civil rights DOESN'T mean different things to different people. It only has ONE definition. Perhaps SOME people simply wish it to be what it is not.

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Yep...Civil Rights Movement 2017...kill a cop...vote Democratic.

Link?

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What do those crazy kids have to do with the civil rights movement?

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Thats a DAMN good question. Wanna take a shot at answering your question? Who told them that Ferguson was a "racial issue"? For that matter, how does John Lewis conflate POLITICS/CIA with Civil Rights? There's a lot of noise that "cheapens" real Civil Rights issues. INCLUDING the indoctrinating crap that gets fed in Academia.

Cool story bro, but you're all over the place.

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[Bush92]

But civil rights DOESN'T mean different things to different people. It only has ONE definition. Perhaps SOME people simply wish it to be what it is not.

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Yep...Civil Rights Movement 2017...kill a cop...vote Democratic.

Link?

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What do those crazy kids have to do with the civil rights movement?

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Thats a DAMN good question. Wanna take a shot at answering your question? Who told them that Ferguson was a "racial issue"? For that matter, how does John Lewis conflate POLITICS/CIA with Civil Rights? There's a lot of noise that "cheapens" real Civil Rights issues. INCLUDING the indoctrinating crap that gets fed in Academia.

Ferguson was a racial issue that was flamed by liberal media in order to stir black to vote for Clinton in record numbers. Fat blob M.Brown reached for officers gun and got lead blasted into his worthless blubber. He deserved to die. Hands-up Don't Shoot was exposed as a lie.

 

[dblack]

I don't support the concept of special rights disguised as civil rights as applied today.

Who's getting special rights, and how?

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Current legislation is replete with 'special rights'. We've all but given up on the concept of equal rights under the law, with government cutting a different deal for everyone depending on which interest group they belong to. Powerful minorities and industry groups vie for exemptions and perks.

But, as many here have point out, it's impossible to discuss equal rights under law without first establishing what kind of rights governments should be protecting in the first place.

Cite some examples of those "replete" examples.

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Most 'tax incentives'. Most of the ways we 'enforce' the religion clause of the first amendment, which has been turned on its head - what was originally a call to keep government out of religion has become a special protection for religions that meet government approval. Most of the public accommodations provisions of the "civil rights" law (i.e. the establishment of protected classes). The similar application of "civil rights" laws in regard to employment discrimination. Much of what falls under labor law does this, by granting special rights to members of government approved labor organizations.

Let me know if you need more examples.

You're conflating rights by calling them civil rights. You really mean religious rights.

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? You asked for examples of special rights, and I listed some. Only one of them had anything to do with religion, and I didn't refer to it as a 'civil right'. Were you possibly responding to a different post?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The OP really doesn't mean civil rights. He means preferential treatment for "people of color" which is intrinsically contrary to civil rights.

How did you calculate that?

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Exploitation of white guilt is far more apropos, but certainly not as catchy.

.

Predatory Preaching


Whites have nothing to feel guilty about. Liberal race-traitors don't feel guilty either. They are sadists who want to pressure other Whites into feeling guilty in order to take away our self-respect. They force laws down our throats, knowing we won't fight back and will eventually believe in their charges of guilt to cover up our cowardice in letting the enemies of the majority make the laws.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Favored classes are unconstitutional. Enforce equality under the law, not favoritism under the law.

Make the Nobility Have No Ability

Outlaw birth privileges then. That will disable the powerful clique that sponsors minorities, attacking the majority from both ends.

What birth privileges?

Whirled Wad of Wub

Quit pretending you don't know, preppylover! I'm wise to that Netwit trick.

 

[Bush92]

Today's so-called "civil rights movement."

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Do you believe that civil rights needs more attention, or it already have had enough and it's time to move on?

Why/why not?

I think all the recent evidence is that there IS oppression. Not so much race based as class based. If you read the Federal report on Ferguson for instance you'll find the MAIN source of oppression is a local govt that had an average of 3 outstanding warrants and 1.5 arrests per household. A system where MOST of those warrants were garbage or clerical errors. A system where someone TRYING to pay off a fine in installments had their money returned and their asses thrown in jail. .

There is a CLEAR pattern of oppression from muni govts that try to run by the SAME rules as wealthier towns or suburbs. And the irony of all that is of course -- that these victims just love them some MORE big muscular govt with piss poor "customer service" and lack of innovation.. And they VOTE that way -- all the ******* time.

That "innovation" has to come from recognizing that problems that LOOK like "racial oppression" are often clearly --- something else entirely.. And it has to come from folks that THINK emancipated and better represented.

Then it IS race based, but this race in this location (as in most) happens to be locked in an endless chain of poverty and crime.

Wilson was lunatic when he emptied his pistol into Brown however.

I can't believe he thought he would get away with this. It has cost him his police career. He is lucky it did not cost him more.

You're missing the larger picture of despair and anger that CREATES anti-law attitudes in those communities. And that is what I was addressing. Ferguson ran their entire "justice system" incompetently and arrogantly. And that problem was NOT "race based".. It's a failure of government that plagues MOST working poor communities in the US. NOT ---- just the black ones. You "cop to" Brown's attitude that got him killed after a LIFETIME of being abused and oppressed by an incompetent justice system. And seeing that abuse eat away at lives in the community. But it's NOT racism.. That's why the SAME attitudes against the justice system prevail in BLACK RUN cities and towns.

In America, Blacks Have Never Been Treated Worse Than They Deserve

You belong to a cult of Bell Curve deniers.

And you might belong in the FRINGES of any Bell Curve.. And not on the "good side" fringe.

There's really no addressing that reply other then bookmarking it for future proof of existence of TRUE racism. You must HATE any discussions on Civil Liberties or Civil Rights. Must IRK you that your hate is not legal to act upon.

Nothing works in a free society without TOLERANCE. No freedom or liberties for anyone because of who they are or what freedoms they choose to exercise.

The "A Punk Is a Hunk" Death-Wish Cult

Only inferior people have reason to believe in equality. That's why you refuse to debate whether genetic racial inferiority is even possible; the only way you can win is by skipping over that question. Your cult's race card is a Joker. Losers play it to make themselves feel like winners.

 

[flacaltenn]

I think all the recent evidence is that there IS oppression. Not so much race based as class based. If you read the Federal report on Ferguson for instance you'll find the MAIN source of oppression is a local govt that had an average of 3 outstanding warrants and 1.5 arrests per household. A system where MOST of those warrants were garbage or clerical errors. A system where someone TRYING to pay off a fine in installments had their money returned and their asses thrown in jail. .

There is a CLEAR pattern of oppression from muni govts that try to run by the SAME rules as wealthier towns or suburbs. And the irony of all that is of course -- that these victims just love them some MORE big muscular govt with piss poor "customer service" and lack of innovation.. And they VOTE that way -- all the ******* time.

That "innovation" has to come from recognizing that problems that LOOK like "racial oppression" are often clearly --- something else entirely.. And it has to come from folks that THINK emancipated and better represented.

Then it IS race based, but this race in this location (as in most) happens to be locked in an endless chain of poverty and crime.

Wilson was lunatic when he emptied his pistol into Brown however.

I can't believe he thought he would get away with this. It has cost him his police career. He is lucky it did not cost him more.

You're missing the larger picture of despair and anger that CREATES anti-law attitudes in those communities. And that is what I was addressing. Ferguson ran their entire "justice system" incompetently and arrogantly. And that problem was NOT "race based".. It's a failure of government that plagues MOST working poor communities in the US. NOT ---- just the black ones. You "cop to" Brown's attitude that got him killed after a LIFETIME of being abused and oppressed by an incompetent justice system. And seeing that abuse eat away at lives in the community. But it's NOT racism.. That's why the SAME attitudes against the justice system prevail in BLACK RUN cities and towns.

In America, Blacks Have Never Been Treated Worse Than They Deserve

You belong to a cult of Bell Curve deniers.

And you might belong in the FRINGES of any Bell Curve.. And not on the "good side" fringe.

There's really no addressing that reply other then bookmarking it for future proof of existence of TRUE racism. You must HATE any discussions on Civil Liberties or Civil Rights. Must IRK you that your hate is not legal to act upon.

Nothing works in a free society without TOLERANCE. No freedom or liberties for anyone because of who they are or what freedoms they choose to exercise.

The "A Punk Is a Hunk" Death-Wish Cult

Only inferior people have reason to believe in equality. That's why you refuse to debate whether genetic racial inferiority is even possible; the only way you can win is by skipping over that question. Your cult's race card is a Joker. Losers play it to make themselves feel like winners.

My general policy is --- I only debate fearsome racists if they appeal to intellectual arguments and reason. And I'll actually do that to see if I should (for some reason) become more racist myself. So send a portfolio of "your work" in being a racist --- and then we'll chat.

 

[Chuz Life]

Today's so-called "civil rights movement."

disgusting.

 

[Correll]

It has had TOO much attention, and has become reverse discrimination and needs to be reversed itself.

What does "race" have to do with it?

They are reverse discriminating on grounds of race.

How do? Do expound .

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The 210 point bonus blacks get for having black skin in ivy league college admissions is a fine example.

Not that it is credible that you have not heard these arguments before.

 

[dblack]

There goes the neighborhood...

 

[Chuz Life]

There goes the neighborhood...

Sorry if I interrupted you state of hypocrisy and or denial.

Here, let me put these back on for you.