Do you believe Cohen or Trump?

[Hutch Starskey]

LOL- you idiot snowflakes keep thinking if you keep repeating your 'theories' over and over it is 'explaining'

Both Cohen and AMI have both admitted to the illegal campaign contributions.

Can't get around that.

A plea bargain can't be used as evidence, dumbass, so it doesn't matter what they supposedly "admitted." Cohen doesn't get to determine whether Trump committed a campaign expenditure, and neither does Manafort. A judge does that, and Mueller obviously knows that no judge is going to rule in his favor.

A judge does that, and Mueller obviously knows that no judge is going to rule in his favor.

A judge already has. Cohen is already convicted and sentenced for it, dope.

You're a ******* imbecile. No judge has ruled that his plea bargain can be used as evidence.

There is nothing that prevents Cohen or AMI from testifying against Trump in any future proceedings, dope.

Why would they?

Because they're witnesses, dope.

 

[candycorn]

The "plea deal" is based on what Michael Cohen and the parent company gave to the authorities. In this world, you do not get something for nothing and while the plea itself may not be admissible, the information they gave would certainly be admissible.

It doesn't matter what it's "based on," you ******* moron. It's not freely given uncoerced testimony that can be cross examined, and Cohen doesn't have the qualifications do determine what the law means.

By the "information" you mean the contents of the plea deal. That's exactly what isn't admissible.

I see you're now retreating to the hair-splitting exercise.

The plea deal is predicated on testimony that will be presented. You do not get the deal unless you're willing to testify.

Once he's sentenced, Mueller has no leverage over the defendant. He can't revoke any deals at that point.

You obviously don't understand the first thing about how plea deals operate.

Ok; go with that. Meanwhile back in reality, the prosecutor can add charges and lengthen a sentence if the cooperation that was promised does not materialize. If, of course, there are charges to add.

No, he can't add charges, moron. Nor can he lengthen a sentence. You seem to believe that a prosecutor has the arbitrary power of a totalitarian dictator. That's not surprising since that's the form of government you support. The "cooperation" has to occur before his sentencing because afterwards the charges are final.

You seem to have forgotten what happened to former Trump campaign manager Paul Manfort who plead guilty when he violated the terms of the plea bargain.

Manafort Breached Plea Deal by Repeatedly Lying, Mueller Says

You seem really uninformed.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

There is absolutely nothing wrong out side of moral character, with paying off bimbos under normal situations.

HOWEVER, if the primary reason these ladies of the night were being paid off, was because he did not want them spilling the beans to the public, because of the Access Hollywood video or the 12 women that said he sexually harassed them during his campaign for presidency, then it would be breaking the law....

-it would have to be the primary reason or sole reason, due to the election campaign....for it to be illegal

here are some of the facts and reasons:

It is illegal for a Corporation to donate money or in kind services, to any campaign.

The payoff to Karen McDougall to silence her, for Donald Trump, by the National Enquirer/AMI Corp. was specifically done to silence her during Trump's campaign. She had approached the National Enquirer a couple of months earlier than her August payoff, to tell her "story" is my understanding and they hymned and hawed over it... until Candidate Trump had won his primary, I believe they were trying to catch and kill her story of the two of them, for less money....but once Trump had won, it actually cost them a pretty penny.

Both David Pecker, (the National Enquirer guy) and Michael Cohen and Donald Trump met in 2015 to discuss HOW the National Enquirer could help him in his campaign for the Presidency.... To Catch and Kill any of the women coming forward that he slept with, AND to run negative ads on Hillary during the campaign.... of which the National Enquirer did BOTH.

The discussion was NOT to hide it from Melania... ( I think they probably have a sexualy open marriage or she would have left him long ago....) There are two people, Cohen and Pecker, that have said this happened.... vs. the Don. Not just Cohen.

So, this means a Corporation was donating to the Trump Campaign, with gifts that would help him in the election.... so the National Enquirer/AMI broke the law... but Donald was aware and okay and even asked them to do what they did, and I believe Trump's Company paid them back.... in a back handed and fraudulent way, by paying Cohen for legal services that he never performed, then he paid AMI Corp, so to hide the whole thing....

all of this was dirty, and for the purpose of the election and hiding from we the people, of what was being done.... normally as said, this might have been ok, but Campaign Finance laws have the sole purpose of giving sunshine to we the people, so we can make educated choices and to know where the money came from that donates directly to these campaigns...

Oh darn, the dinner bell for the oven is going off so I will have to come back and finish this and get in to the Stormy pay off....

Wrong again. It's been explained to you multiple times why your theory is wrong. If an expenditure can have any conceivable private purpose, then it's not a campaign expenditure.

I've never seen such a huge pile of obviously wrong snowflake myths in my life

NOPE.....

The reason Edwards got off, is because they did not believe the campaign was the primary reason... he was married, but was having an affair with her and she and he had a child together, and the payments went over a long period of time and even when he had already knew he was pulling out of the primary.... so even though he was no longer going to be in the primary race, she and their child, was still getting paid....

This is why he got off.... the primary purpose was to take care of his mistress, and to take care of her while she was with child, and to take care of her and their child , after the child was born, and to hide this all from his wife who was dying, and it also helped his campaign.... the campaign came in 3rd place.

The discussion with Trump, Cohen and Pecker did not mention Melania and hiding it from her.... she already knew she married a whore.... and certainly saw all the pictures of him with these other two women... it was ONLY ABOUT his campaign.... the whole discussion of the 3 was about the Campaign... And these were past affairs, near ten years past, not an affair he was presently having...

So it is a better shot that he would be guilty than Edwards, of covering it up for the main purpose of the campaign, thus making it an illegal campaign donation from a corporation.... and Trump's company paying Pecker back is also an illegal donation....

If Trump had made all the payments out of his own money and not his company's, and didn't go through contortions the best mob boss could imagine to cover it all up financially, he probably would not be in trouble at all for it...

but honestly, to me...this all is a side show to deflect from his Russian collusion....

That's rationalization, not logic. You aren't able to commit logic. If the payment conceivably had a private purpose, then it's not a campaign expenditure, period.

It's more likely that a ten year old affair was covered up just weeks before the election for the purpose protecting the campaign and the candidate.

The DOJ agrees.

Would you rather that Trump or anyone for that matter become president of the country, and then after that be attacked while in office with blackmail and extortion schemes ?? It's best to clear up your past legally, and binding so that the office remains free and open as it should be for the people, and not controlled by an underworld of shady characters attempting to find favor in the people's house.

It's best to clear up your past legally, and binding so that the office remains free and open as it should be for the people, and not controlled by an underworld of shady characters attempting to find favor in the people's house.

I agree. Trump didn't do it legally and he himself is an " underworld shady character".

 

[edward37]

Not a damned thing illegal about it.

You should let the prosecutors and AMI know about that.

Who the **** is AMI?

Who the **** is AMI?

If you don't know that, you should just go away.

I'm sure that would make your life easier.

Bri I look forward to reading your posts You are a prime example of republicanism,,everything wrong with America

 

[beagle9]

Wrong again. It's been explained to you multiple times why your theory is wrong. If an expenditure can have any conceivable private purpose, then it's not a campaign expenditure.

I've never seen such a huge pile of obviously wrong snowflake myths in my life

NOPE.....

The reason Edwards got off, is because they did not believe the campaign was the primary reason... he was married, but was having an affair with her and she and he had a child together, and the payments went over a long period of time and even when he had already knew he was pulling out of the primary.... so even though he was no longer going to be in the primary race, she and their child, was still getting paid....

This is why he got off.... the primary purpose was to take care of his mistress, and to take care of her while she was with child, and to take care of her and their child , after the child was born, and to hide this all from his wife who was dying, and it also helped his campaign.... the campaign came in 3rd place.

The discussion with Trump, Cohen and Pecker did not mention Melania and hiding it from her.... she already knew she married a whore.... and certainly saw all the pictures of him with these other two women... it was ONLY ABOUT his campaign.... the whole discussion of the 3 was about the Campaign... And these were past affairs, near ten years past, not an affair he was presently having...

So it is a better shot that he would be guilty than Edwards, of covering it up for the main purpose of the campaign, thus making it an illegal campaign donation from a corporation.... and Trump's company paying Pecker back is also an illegal donation....

If Trump had made all the payments out of his own money and not his company's, and didn't go through contortions the best mob boss could imagine to cover it all up financially, he probably would not be in trouble at all for it...

but honestly, to me...this all is a side show to deflect from his Russian collusion....

That's rationalization, not logic. You aren't able to commit logic. If the payment conceivably had a private purpose, then it's not a campaign expenditure, period.

It's more likely that a ten year old affair was covered up just weeks before the election for the purpose protecting the campaign and the candidate.

The DOJ agrees.

Would you rather that Trump or anyone for that matter become president of the country, and then after that be attacked while in office with blackmail and extortion schemes ?? It's best to clear up your past legally, and binding so that the office remains free and open as it should be for the people, and not controlled by an underworld of shady characters attempting to find favor in the people's house.

THAT IS PRECISELY what the payoff set himself up for...

THE TRUTH and only telling the truth is what would prevent THAT blackmail and extortion from happening...

you have got it ALL WRONG.

how can you not know this???

The truth as to be told to who ?? The other blackmail and extortion team ??? You know who they are by now don't you ??

 

[beagle9]

Wrong again. It's been explained to you multiple times why your theory is wrong. If an expenditure can have any conceivable private purpose, then it's not a campaign expenditure.

I've never seen such a huge pile of obviously wrong snowflake myths in my life

NOPE.....

The reason Edwards got off, is because they did not believe the campaign was the primary reason... he was married, but was having an affair with her and she and he had a child together, and the payments went over a long period of time and even when he had already knew he was pulling out of the primary.... so even though he was no longer going to be in the primary race, she and their child, was still getting paid....

This is why he got off.... the primary purpose was to take care of his mistress, and to take care of her while she was with child, and to take care of her and their child , after the child was born, and to hide this all from his wife who was dying, and it also helped his campaign.... the campaign came in 3rd place.

The discussion with Trump, Cohen and Pecker did not mention Melania and hiding it from her.... she already knew she married a whore.... and certainly saw all the pictures of him with these other two women... it was ONLY ABOUT his campaign.... the whole discussion of the 3 was about the Campaign... And these were past affairs, near ten years past, not an affair he was presently having...

So it is a better shot that he would be guilty than Edwards, of covering it up for the main purpose of the campaign, thus making it an illegal campaign donation from a corporation.... and Trump's company paying Pecker back is also an illegal donation....

If Trump had made all the payments out of his own money and not his company's, and didn't go through contortions the best mob boss could imagine to cover it all up financially, he probably would not be in trouble at all for it...

but honestly, to me...this all is a side show to deflect from his Russian collusion....

That's rationalization, not logic. You aren't able to commit logic. If the payment conceivably had a private purpose, then it's not a campaign expenditure, period.

It's more likely that a ten year old affair was covered up just weeks before the election for the purpose protecting the campaign and the candidate.

The DOJ agrees.

Would you rather that Trump or anyone for that matter become president of the country, and then after that be attacked while in office with blackmail and extortion schemes ?? It's best to clear up your past legally, and binding so that the office remains free and open as it should be for the people, and not controlled by an underworld of shady characters attempting to find favor in the people's house.

It's best to clear up your past legally, and binding so that the office remains free and open as it should be for the people, and not controlled by an underworld of shady characters attempting to find favor in the people's house.

I agree. Trump didn't do it legally and he himself is an " underworld shady character".

You are spinning now, because Trump did do it legally, but Mueller wants dirt no matter what form it comes in or how he gets it, so who are the shady characters again ??? Kavanaugh hearings comes to mind also, then came the backfire on the Demon-crats. Good grief.

 

[The Original Tree]

Let's see here.

• Clinton destroys 33,000 emails and lies 150 times. Emails about "Yoga Pants" (Classified Information) found on Anthony Weiner's laptop show she lied. She said she only had 1 device for State Dept business. She actually had 17 burner devices she bought on Ebay so she could hide what she was doing. She paid Crowdstrike to bleach bit her illegal secret server in violation of two Federal Court orders and destroyed 17 devices with a ballpeen hammer and removed their SIM cards.

• Comey came out and covered for her, broke protocol, the law and FBI procedure, when he gave EVERYONE IMMUNITY, did not record a single word of testimony, and even after proclaiming numerous Clinton lied and she broke multiple laws, and excused it by saying she was a dumb *****, not one person was charged with lying on her staff. He also overstepped his authority and exonerated her months before any interviews were even done.

• The FBI immediately sets up a wiretapping operation on Candidate Trump for Clinton and Obama based soley on Russian Propaganda, Clinton and Obama purchased after thy lose several debates, in which they cheated in.

• They never vet the Dirty Dossier. They order their British Spy Steele to dump some of The Dossier in the media so they can use circular corroboration to falsify Affidavits in a FISA court to get a wire tapping warrant. The FBI knowing that The Dirty Dossier was false, salacious and was not vetted, and that they themselves used circular corroboration, goes ahead and sets up an illegitimate wiretapping operation and not only that, leaks classified information to the press and then lies about their doing it. They even leak conversations of The President with other heads of state. The FBI an DOJ both lie about the source of these leaks.....themselves.

• The FBI says they irretrievably lost 50,000 text messages of it's agents thus making text messages between Strozk and Page and others unable to be reviewed. The IG found them in just a couple hours and what was revealed was a plot in the upper echelons of the FBI and DOJ to use false Russian Propaganda to remove a duly elected president from office. The FBI Lied about the messages

• The FBI and DOJ slowed walked or outright denied legal requests for documents legitimately requested by Congress. They lied about the availability of documents and how long it would take to produce them.

• James Comey admits to violating protocol , sneaking in to the White House, interviewing Flynn over already disclosed meetings and conversations with diplomats in a plot to get him removed as National Security Advisor. Comey lied about his intentions to circumvent White House Security and Chief Counsel.

• They couldn't catch Flynn in a lie, and Flynn was honest in his answers according to official documents. Mueller took that same report and accused Flynn of lying, threatened his family, and financially ruined Flynn in an attempt to get him to lie about the president.

• Loretta Lynch tells Comey to "take it easy on Clinton" and call his investigation in to her Espionage Crimes a "Matter" She then contradicted Comey and said she said no such thing. One of them is lying.

• Susan Rice, Susan Powers, Mills all are engaged in Illegal "Unmasking Activities" They lie about it.

• Eric Holder, Brennan, and Clapper all Lie under oath in front of Congress. So does Andrew McCabe and Strozk. No one is charged with lying.

• Robert Mueller's illegitimate investigation launched soley by Russian Propaganda that was already known to be false is staffed with violent, hateful Clinton donors Hell bent on removing Trump from office. Half of them had to be fired and half of them are under criminal investigation right now. To say they had bias is an understatement. Strozk, Comey, Yates and Rosenstein lied to The FISA Court, filed False Affidavits and secured wire taps illegitimately for Obama and Clinton to spy on The Trump Campaign, and then they lied about doing so.

• Mueller in Gestapo Fashion storms both Manafort's home and Michael Cohen's home in Pre-Dawn Raids more suited for Drug King Pins and Mafia Dons. They confiscate attorney client privileged materials and refuse to give them back to the clients using them instead to grill the clients about what they know about these documents without the benefit of being able to review said documents.

• Since when does The FBI withhold documents from the targets of their wrath? Manafort is thrown in solitary confinement for months for refusing to lie about The President. Since when does someone who is having a dispute with The IRS get thrown in to solitary confinement? The FBI lies about why Manafort is doing time for a 15 year old over sight on his taxes (allegedly) regarding work he did for The Podesta Group and Tony Podesta. Mueller gives (Clinton Chief Advisor) Podesta Immunity and then accuses Manafort of lying about his (Secret Meetings with Assange) Apparently Manafort has a Cloak of Invisibility he uses to sneak in to see Assange. Mueller accusing Manafort of lying and pulls his plea deal over whackadoodle conspiracies, that Manafort is indeed The Invisible Man.

• Mueller deleted thousands of text messages off of Page and Strozk's phones and wiped them before giving them to the Inspector General. He lied about that and concealed that fact from The IG.

• Mueller and Weismann have been charged before with tampering with evidence, manufacturing evidence, altering witness testimony, prosecutorial misconduct, and railroading several innocent men to jail costing the taxpayers millions.

I think we should be asking if Mueller is Lying

 

[CowboyTed]

Cohen's statements are self-serving nonsense, but even if they were not, they have no bearing on any potential criminality on the part of Our Exalted President.

Cohen has claimed that Trump "knew that the payoffs were wrong."

What the **** does that even mean? It is clear that such payoffs are entirely legal, and that even if they were politically motivated, they do not constitute campaign finance violations FOR THE CANDIDATE. In the worst, case President Trump would have to revise a finance disclosure and pay a fine. Big deal.

As for Trump's apparent denial of any advance knowledge of the payoffs (which were entirely different from one another), who cares? It was his own money, spent for his own benefit. So what?

Obama got hit for fines on 2 million or so for FEC violations.........did they prosecute him........Nope......he paid a fine and that was the end of it.

Double Standards.......

Obama paid for fines for late filing and that was taken in consideration.

Election Law Violations Compared: Obama 2008 vs. Trump 2016

Even GOP Reps have said Obama was a really well run...

"
The infractions committed by the 2008 Obama campaign were not alleged to be intentional, and the FEC did not consider the campaign’s documentation lapses as rising to the level of a “serious” offense prosecutable by the Department of Justice.

“There are always reporting violations in campaigns. Many of them minor, many of them substantive,” Ravel told us. “But in this case … what was admitted to by Cohen was that there was a clear intent to use campaign money for the purpose of keeping the individuals quiet right before the election for campaign purposes.”

Trump’s assertion that Cohen broke no law is in conflict with his own Justice Department, who secured multiple guilty pleas related to the commission of violations of federal election laws. Specifically, Cohen admitted to intentionally violating portions of the following federal election laws on behalf of Donald Trump:

• 52 U.S. Code § 30116 – Limitations on contributions and expenditures
• 52 U.S. Code § 30118 – Contributions or expenditures by national banks, corporations, or labor organizations

Obama’s civil FEC infractions, while they resulted in a large fine, are legally distinct from what Cohen pled guilty to, which is the intentional commission of felonies intended to affect the outcome of a federal election."

Why do you feel you need to lie to defend Trump, Could the truth not work?

Is this what happens when you discover the truth doesn't work?

 

[Lesh]

Trump’s assertion that Cohen broke no law is in conflict with his own Justice Department, who secured multiple guilty pleas related to the commission of violations of federal election laws. Specifically, Cohen admitted to intentionally violating portions of the following federal election laws on behalf of Donald Trump:

Oh....

 

[bripat9643]

A plea bargain can't be used as evidence, dumbass, so it doesn't matter what they supposedly "admitted." Cohen doesn't get to determine whether Trump committed a campaign expenditure, and neither does Manafort. A judge does that, and Mueller obviously knows that no judge is going to rule in his favor.

A judge does that, and Mueller obviously knows that no judge is going to rule in his favor.

A judge already has. Cohen is already convicted and sentenced for it, dope.

You're a ******* imbecile. No judge has ruled that his plea bargain can be used as evidence.

There is nothing that prevents Cohen or AMI from testifying against Trump in any future proceedings, dope.

Why would they?

Because they're witnesses, dope.

They won't be under any obligation to say what Mueller wants them to say, moron.

 

[Lesh]

They won't be under any obligation to say what Mueller wants them to say, moron.

They'll only be used as witnesses where evidence verifies their testimony

 

[bripat9643]

They won't be under any obligation to say what Mueller wants them to say, moron.

They'll only be used as witnesses where evidence verifies their testimony

They are never going to testify in any trial. Mueller doesn't want them to because he knows their plea deals are horseshit.

 

[Lesh]

But wait..I thought Mueller is making them lie...

If they aren't going to be witnesses...

Oh you are getting really confusing

 

[bripat9643]

But wait..I thought Mueller is making them lie...

If they aren't going to be witnesses...

Oh you are getting really confusing

Mueller's power over them disappears the minute they are sentenced, dumbass.

 

[Lesh]

Mueller's power over them disappears the minute they are sentenced, dumbass.

You actually got something correct for once.

Of course at that point he has already gotten depositions and evidence from them so...

 

[g5000]

"I didn't know anything about the payment to Stormy."












"Okay, I did know about the payment. Not only did I know about it, I paid her with my own money."











"Okay, it wasn't my money. Michael paid her off with his own money."



"You can't believe anything my lawyer says because he lies a lot."

 

[The Original Tree]

So check this out.....Cohen was apparently Rpping Off The Trump Organization with multiple false billings, and The Trump Org would have never found out Cohen was stealing from them if it weren't for The Mueller Investigation.

How Ironic is that?

 

[Lesh]

Crooks stealing from crooks.

That NEVER happens right?

 

[Votto]

Both have told different stories to different people. Neither are trustworthy imo.
Cohen imo is not a credible witness.

I have to say, I really don't care.

We have a Congress that has paid off women to the tune of $17 million to keep them quiet for crimes of sexual assault using taxpayer money, yet none of it went public and none of them had to step down.

Then you have people like Bill Clinton pay to keep his whores quiet and nothing happens to him.

Why then should we be up in arms or do we just hate Orange Man who did not sexually assault anyone?

No matter how "bad" Trump is, the Swamp always outdoes him.

 

[jc456]

If Cohen has tapes or documentation to support his claim, then I will tend to believe his version

Obviously, but absent this type of undeniable proof I don't see how anyone can believe either of them.

And for the record unless it was campaign money I dont see what the big deal is.

undeniable proof ?