CDZ Do we need a new Branch of Government to investigate the others?

[2aguy]

This is how Nixon is different from hilary..and the democrats today.....

Watergate scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On Monday, July 16, 1973, in front of a live, televised audience, chief minority counsel Fred Thompson asked Butterfield whether he was "aware of the installation of any listening devices in the Oval Office of the President." Butterfield's revelation of the taping system transformed the Watergate investigation. Cox immediately subpoenaed the tapes, as did the Senate, but Nixon refused to release them, citing his executive privilege as president, and ordered Cox to drop his subpoena. Cox refused.[41]

"Saturday Night Massacre"[edit]


On October 20, 1973, after Cox refused to drop the subpoena, Nixon commanded Attorney General Elliot Richardson, and then Richardson's deputy, William Ruckelshaus, to fire the special prosecutor. Richardson and Ruckelshaus both refused to fire Cox and resigned in protest.

Nixon's search for someone in the Justice Department willing to fire Cox ended with the Solicitor General Robert Bork. Though Bork claims to believe Nixon's order was valid and appropriate, he considered resigning to avoid being "perceived as a man who did the President's bidding to save my job."[42] Bork carried out the presidential order and dismissed the special prosecutor.

These actions met considerable public criticism. Responding to the allegations of possible wrongdoing, in front of 400 Associated Press managing editors on November 17, 1973, Nixon stated emphatically, "I'm not a crook."[43][44] He needed to allow Bork to appoint a new special prosecutor; Bork chose Leon Jaworski to continue the investigation.

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Now can anyone imagine anyone in the obama administration or a hilary administration doing this....?

On October 20, 1973, after Cox refused to drop the subpoena, Nixon commanded Attorney General Elliot Richardson, and then Richardson's deputy, William Ruckelshaus, to fire the special prosecutor. Richardson and Ruckelshaus both refused to fire Cox and resigned in protest.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

It is pretty clear that when one political party is in control of the law enforcement agencies of the federal government, they can control who investigates them....we are seeing this now with hilary clinton, who is being protected by the FBI and the Department of Justice...the very organizations that should be prosecuting her.

Would a new Branch of Government.....an investigative branch that would be voted on and seperate from the Executive branch solve this problem...?

No.

You want to form another Branch, vote on it and if it is from the same political party as the Executive then how will that have solved anything?

Also why are you excusing the GOP failure in the House?

They can't do anything...they only have the power to investigate and inform......they can't issue warrants and they have the democrats running interference for any investigation into a democrat.

Again, you want to form another branch of the government that will be elected by the people, so tell me if that branch of government is also Democratic Party members what good was it to form that new branch of government?

This is why I put this here....so we can talk about if it is needed...I think it is...and how it would be created to avoid the problem we have now....

Keeping in mind it will never happen....I just wanted to hash this out.

You believe the United States need another branch of Government?

How conservative of you and you have yet to solve the one little problem that I have asked you twice, well now three times and that is if that branch is controlled by the same political party that the President is from then what good would it be?

Oh and here is a better solution and have the opposition party select the Justice Department heads and not the President... Also the second place finisher in the General Election should be the Vice President that way you have more of a balance in the system...

Nah, let waste more money on another branch of government instead...

 

[2aguy]

It is pretty clear that when one political party is in control of the law enforcement agencies of the federal government, they can control who investigates them....we are seeing this now with hilary clinton, who is being protected by the FBI and the Department of Justice...the very organizations that should be prosecuting her.

Would a new Branch of Government.....an investigative branch that would be voted on and seperate from the Executive branch solve this problem...?

No.

You want to form another Branch, vote on it and if it is from the same political party as the Executive then how will that have solved anything?

Also why are you excusing the GOP failure in the House?

They can't do anything...they only have the power to investigate and inform......they can't issue warrants and they have the democrats running interference for any investigation into a democrat.

Again, you want to form another branch of the government that will be elected by the people, so tell me if that branch of government is also Democratic Party members what good was it to form that new branch of government?

This is why I put this here....so we can talk about if it is needed...I think it is...and how it would be created to avoid the problem we have now....

Keeping in mind it will never happen....I just wanted to hash this out.

You believe the United States need another branch of Government?

How conservative of you and you have yet to solve the one little problem that I have asked you twice, well now three times and that is if that branch is controlled by the same political party that the President is from then what good would it be?

Oh and here is a better solution and have the opposition party select the Justice Department heads and not the President... Also the second place finisher in the General Election should be the Vice President that way you have more of a balance in the system...

Nah, let waste more money on another branch of government instead...

Chill dude......I am asking for thoughts and ideas.....

I thought about that too.....an amendment that places the opposition party in Charge of the Department of Justice....then you have the problem of Lawfare against the other party...like you saw against Tom Delay and Sarah Palin and other Republicans attacked by states attorneys in various states....

 

[Al Azar]

Conservatives don't have a problem with big government if it forces everybody to toe their line.

 

[2aguy]

Conservatives don't have a problem with big government of it forces everybody to toe their line.

yeah....says the guy from the party making bakers bake cakes......and restaurants being forced to limit drink sizes....

 

[Fair&Balanced]

It is pretty clear that when one political party is in control of the law enforcement agencies of the federal government, they can control who investigates them....we are seeing this now with hilary clinton, who is being protected by the FBI and the Department of Justice...the very organizations that should be prosecuting her.

Would a new Branch of Government.....an investigative branch that would be voted on and seperate from the Executive branch solve this problem...?

No.

You want to form another Branch, vote on it and if it is from the same political party as the Executive then how will that have solved anything?

Also why are you excusing the GOP failure in the House?

They can't do anything...they only have the power to investigate and inform......they can't issue warrants and they have the democrats running interference for any investigation into a democrat.

Again, you want to form another branch of the government that will be elected by the people, so tell me if that branch of government is also Democratic Party members what good was it to form that new branch of government?

This is why I put this here....so we can talk about if it is needed...I think it is...and how it would be created to avoid the problem we have now....

Keeping in mind it will never happen....I just wanted to hash this out.

You believe the United States need another branch of Government?

How conservative of you and you have yet to solve the one little problem that I have asked you twice, well now three times and that is if that branch is controlled by the same political party that the President is from then what good would it be?

Oh and here is a better solution and have the opposition party select the Justice Department heads and not the President... Also the second place finisher in the General Election should be the Vice President that way you have more of a balance in the system...

Nah, let waste more money on another branch of government instead...

I actually like the idea of returning to the original system of the second place finisher becomes VP

But your idea of having the the opposite party control the Justice Dept has no merit because then it would just be used as a weapon. We need something OUTSIDE of the control of the political elite that has the power to investigate them. A permanent agency. Not a special prosecutor named on a case by case basis.


Sad that US politics has came to that eh?

 

[Fair&Balanced]

Conservatives don't have a problem with big government if it forces everybody to toe their line.

Are you acknowledging that liberals don't want to toe the line of holding politicians to the same legal standard as the rest of us are?

 

[Holos]

Is there a reason for which you used so many words with Capital letters, but not for the use of the proper name of Hillary Clinton?

Yeah.....hilary is a criminal. She deserves no respect.......

The problem wasn't made, nor presented, by Government, therefore a new Branch of Government isn't applicable, since the representation of Government isn't appropriate.

The answer is no. Separate federal powers (the Legislative, the Judicial, the Executive) are not government branches, but are united within a singular Government, both centralized and decentralized (distributed into States).

 

[IsaacNewton]

It is pretty clear that when one political party is in control of the law enforcement agencies of the federal government, they can control who investigates them....we are seeing this now with hilary clinton, who is being protected by the FBI and the Department of Justice...the very organizations that should be prosecuting her.

Would a new Branch of Government.....an investigative branch that would be voted on and seperate from the Executive branch solve this problem...?

It's broken now because Republicans have figured out demographics is going to render them unable to win national elections in the next couple election cycles. So they have fallen back on the only thing they have left to them nationally, using the power in the House of Representatives to launch political attacks against their opponents. This will only change once they are no longer the majority.

There did used to be compromise and some cordiality. Desperation on the Republican side has destroyed this for good. They have decided they will not accept defeat by vote.

So we get this, as noted in another thread. The founding fathers drafted the Constitution in 116 days and passed it within 9 months. A year to write and pass THE CONSTITUTION.

This Republican controlled Congress hasn't passed a budget since? 2009? 6 years? And they refuse to consult and consent on this president's Supreme Court nomination which they are required to do by the Constitution. The president has fulfilled his Constitutional duties in this matter.

The form of our government is just fine as it has always been. We are just witnessing what happens when one group of people decide their political agenda is above the Constitution and the good of the country. The Republicans in essence are holding the entire Republic hostage if their demands aren't met.

Pretty close to the definition of terrorism yes?

 

[flacaltenn]

No. The solution to Too Much & Corrupt Government is Less Government.

Get rid of the unelected 4th branch of Public Union Career Bureaucrats for a start. Cut spending to bare Constitutional essentials. Less Money will attract Less Rats.

I like the less government idea......but that still doesn't stop them from exploiting the Department of Justice by putting loyalists in there.....imagine if the Republicans had closed ranks around Nixon instead of allowing him to be removed........he would have finished his term...the democrats learned that lesson well...especially hilary who actually worked on Watergate....

It's very simple. Elect Johnson/Weld. Folks will put into all those critical positions not to protect the Party and the elected, but because they are BEST QUALIFIED and not raving partisans. You would have the equivalent of an Independent Counsel as Atty Gen for EVERY issue. And folks heading the IRS, EPA, SEC who will ANSWER to Congress regardless of whether Dems or Reps are the problem.

Try 4 years of something OTHER than the cross-blaming and excuses and the race to the bottom of integrity. And if you NOT relieved --- then go drastic.

BTW -- THe ONLY enforcement of integrity over Fed Govt right now are the "Inspector Generals". If you DID want more independence and less partisan pranks and crappy results -- give THEM the authority to appoint Independent Counsels for actions that occur WITHIN any agency..

 

[MarathonMike]

No, the last thing we need is a 4th branch of government that would be just as likely to be corrupted as the other three. Restore the original design of the government which is 3 fully independent branches that work to keep the others "in check". Step one is break the conjoined Executive-Judicial branch apart that is destabilizing our country. You do that by kicking out Liberal leaders like Lynch and replacing them with moderates that are NOT career politicians.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

No. The solution to Too Much & Corrupt Government is Less Government.

Get rid of the unelected 4th branch of Public Union Career Bureaucrats for a start. Cut spending to bare Constitutional essentials. Less Money will attract Less Rats.

I like the less government idea......but that still doesn't stop them from exploiting the Department of Justice by putting loyalists in there.....imagine if the Republicans had closed ranks around Nixon instead of allowing him to be removed........he would have finished his term...the democrats learned that lesson well...especially hilary who actually worked on Watergate....

It's very simple. Elect Johnson/Weld. Folks will put into all those critical positions not to protect the Party and the elected, but because they are BEST QUALIFIED and not raving partisans. You would have the equivalent of an Independent Counsel as Atty Gen for EVERY issue. And folks heading the IRS, EPA, SEC who will ANSWER to Congress regardless of whether Dems or Reps are the problem.

Try 4 years of something OTHER than the cross-blaming and excuses and the race to the bottom of integrity. And if you NOT relieved --- then go drastic.

BTW -- THe ONLY enforcement of integrity over Fed Govt right now are the "Inspector Generals". If you DID want more independence and less partisan pranks and crappy results -- give THEM the authority to appoint Independent Counsels for actions that occur WITHIN any agency..

Again, the problem with Inspector General's is that they do not concern themselves with criminal activity, indeed they have no power to do so, all they can do is refer crimes to the justice department.

AND they are powerless if their investigation is done after the fact. Take the case with Hillary, for example. The State Dept IG clearly said "yes she broke a bunch of our rules" but since she no longer worked IN the State Dept, what could they do? Even if they had wanted to do something

 

[BuckToothMoron]

It is pretty clear that when one political party is in control of the law enforcement agencies of the federal government, they can control who investigates them....we are seeing this now with hilary clinton, who is being protected by the FBI and the Department of Justice...the very organizations that should be prosecuting her.

Would a new Branch of Government.....an investigative branch that would be voted on and seperate from the Executive branch solve this problem...?

NO! Please, no more federal government agencies. If government is involved it will be slow, cumbersome, corrupt, and inefficient. Voters have to step up and clear out the mess. Repeal the 17th Amendment and get back to letting the states handle education, healthcare ect.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

It is pretty clear that when one political party is in control of the law enforcement agencies of the federal government, they can control who investigates them....we are seeing this now with hilary clinton, who is being protected by the FBI and the Department of Justice...the very organizations that should be prosecuting her.

Would a new Branch of Government.....an investigative branch that would be voted on and seperate from the Executive branch solve this problem...?

It's broken now because Republicans have figured out demographics is going to render them unable to win national elections in the next couple election cycles. So they have fallen back on the only thing they have left to them nationally, using the power in the House of Representatives to launch political attacks against their opponents. This will only change once they are no longer the majority.

There did used to be compromise and some cordiality. Desperation on the Republican side has destroyed this for good. They have decided they will not accept defeat by vote.

So we get this, as noted in another thread. The founding fathers drafted the Constitution in 116 days and passed it within 9 months. A year to write and pass THE CONSTITUTION.

This Republican controlled Congress hasn't passed a budget since? 2009? 6 years? And they refuse to consult and consent on this president's Supreme Court nomination which they are required to do by the Constitution. The president has fulfilled his Constitutional duties in this matter.

The form of our government is just fine as it has always been. We are just witnessing what happens when one group of people decide their political agenda is above the Constitution and the good of the country. The Republicans in essence are holding the entire Republic hostage if their demands aren't met.

Pretty close to the definition of terrorism yes?

Oh yes, it's all the mean old GOP's fault isn't it

#dismissed

 

[flacaltenn]

No. The solution to Too Much & Corrupt Government is Less Government.

Get rid of the unelected 4th branch of Public Union Career Bureaucrats for a start. Cut spending to bare Constitutional essentials. Less Money will attract Less Rats.

I like the less government idea......but that still doesn't stop them from exploiting the Department of Justice by putting loyalists in there.....imagine if the Republicans had closed ranks around Nixon instead of allowing him to be removed........he would have finished his term...the democrats learned that lesson well...especially hilary who actually worked on Watergate....

It's very simple. Elect Johnson/Weld. Folks will put into all those critical positions not to protect the Party and the elected, but because they are BEST QUALIFIED and not raving partisans. You would have the equivalent of an Independent Counsel as Atty Gen for EVERY issue. And folks heading the IRS, EPA, SEC who will ANSWER to Congress regardless of whether Dems or Reps are the problem.

Try 4 years of something OTHER than the cross-blaming and excuses and the race to the bottom of integrity. And if you NOT relieved --- then go drastic.

BTW -- THe ONLY enforcement of integrity over Fed Govt right now are the "Inspector Generals". If you DID want more independence and less partisan pranks and crappy results -- give THEM the authority to appoint Independent Counsels for actions that occur WITHIN any agency..

Again, the problem with Inspector General's is that they do not concern themselves with criminal activity, indeed they have no power to do so, all they can do is refer crimes to the justice department.

AND they are powerless if their investigation is done after the fact. Take the case with Hillary, for example. The State Dept IG clearly said "yes she broke a bunch of our rules" but since she no longer worked IN the State Dept, what could they do? Even if they had wanted to do something

Then give them the power to lay out a legal case. Not just write reports. THEY are the agency watchdogs. Not the DOJ. Let the DOJ concentrate on Federal crimes OUTSIDE of the Minion of Morons.

 

[flacaltenn]

DOJ could STILL refuse to prosecute. But with a clear case layed out in legal terms with all the discovery released to the public --- DOJ would have go full rogue to avoid it. And WE would know about it.

 

[2aguy]

No. The solution to Too Much & Corrupt Government is Less Government.

Get rid of the unelected 4th branch of Public Union Career Bureaucrats for a start. Cut spending to bare Constitutional essentials. Less Money will attract Less Rats.

I like the less government idea......but that still doesn't stop them from exploiting the Department of Justice by putting loyalists in there.....imagine if the Republicans had closed ranks around Nixon instead of allowing him to be removed........he would have finished his term...the democrats learned that lesson well...especially hilary who actually worked on Watergate....

It's very simple. Elect Johnson/Weld. Folks will put into all those critical positions not to protect the Party and the elected, but because they are BEST QUALIFIED and not raving partisans. You would have the equivalent of an Independent Counsel as Atty Gen for EVERY issue. And folks heading the IRS, EPA, SEC who will ANSWER to Congress regardless of whether Dems or Reps are the problem.

Try 4 years of something OTHER than the cross-blaming and excuses and the race to the bottom of integrity. And if you NOT relieved --- then go drastic.

BTW -- THe ONLY enforcement of integrity over Fed Govt right now are the "Inspector Generals". If you DID want more independence and less partisan pranks and crappy results -- give THEM the authority to appoint Independent Counsels for actions that occur WITHIN any agency..

Oh...so you are voting to elect hilary?

 

[Fair&Balanced]

DOJ could STILL refuse to prosecute. But with a clear case layed out in legal terms with all the discovery released to the public --- DOJ would have go full rogue to avoid it. And WE would know about it.

What I propose is taking the DoJ COMPLETELY out of the equation. Look at this situation with Clinton. Come on dude, democratic lemmings aside everyone realizes she broke the law and the DoJ just completely failed in their obligations.

 

[flacaltenn]

No. The solution to Too Much & Corrupt Government is Less Government.

Get rid of the unelected 4th branch of Public Union Career Bureaucrats for a start. Cut spending to bare Constitutional essentials. Less Money will attract Less Rats.

I like the less government idea......but that still doesn't stop them from exploiting the Department of Justice by putting loyalists in there.....imagine if the Republicans had closed ranks around Nixon instead of allowing him to be removed........he would have finished his term...the democrats learned that lesson well...especially hilary who actually worked on Watergate....

It's very simple. Elect Johnson/Weld. Folks will put into all those critical positions not to protect the Party and the elected, but because they are BEST QUALIFIED and not raving partisans. You would have the equivalent of an Independent Counsel as Atty Gen for EVERY issue. And folks heading the IRS, EPA, SEC who will ANSWER to Congress regardless of whether Dems or Reps are the problem.

Try 4 years of something OTHER than the cross-blaming and excuses and the race to the bottom of integrity. And if you NOT relieved --- then go drastic.

BTW -- THe ONLY enforcement of integrity over Fed Govt right now are the "Inspector Generals". If you DID want more independence and less partisan pranks and crappy results -- give THEM the authority to appoint Independent Counsels for actions that occur WITHIN any agency..

Oh...so you are voting to elect hilary?

No -- I'm voting to put a halt to the decline of integrity in govt due to partisan cross-blaming. And YOU?

Voting out of fear is what the parties want. The more fearsome the candidates, the more their bases contributes and vote. We should stop rewarding them. Integrity issues would improve with some "mediation" team in place.

YOU want to treat the symptom -- I want to eradicate the disease.

 

[JoeMoma]

No. The solution to Too Much & Corrupt Government is Less Government.

Get rid of the unelected 4th branch of Public Union Career Bureaucrats for a start. Cut spending to bare Constitutional essentials. Less Money will attract Less Rats.

I like the less government idea......but that still doesn't stop them from exploiting the Department of Justice by putting loyalists in there.....imagine if the Republicans had closed ranks around Nixon instead of allowing him to be removed........he would have finished his term...the democrats learned that lesson well...especially hilary who actually worked on Watergate....

That is exactly true. The GOP obviously could have closed ranks and protected Nixon. They chose not to. Now , I do believe that today's GOP would do the same as the Dems are doing with Clinton, just the nature of politics today.

The GOP usually forms a circular firing squard when one of its members gets in trouble.