Do Muslims believe in the separation of Church and State?

[Dhara]

Islam bashing thread.

Do you want to grow hate or love in your heart? Your choice. Decide which you choose to feed.

As an American I want to raise awareness that we are the targets of Islamic extremists who could look like anyone. Some look European, some look Black and some look Hispanic or Semitic. With Taqiyya sanctioned as a tool of convenience where deception and lying to NON Muslims is OK, those concerns have to be discussed. For our own welfare and safety,we must be vigilant, scrutinize every suspicious act and report it promptly; regardless of the physiognomy of the suspicious person. I am not anti-ISLAM but I am definitely anti-Jihadist. I am not fond of ISIS or Al Queda. So now, tell me, what is YOUR solution for separating those elements from the pack of Muslim immigrants and refugees; or, for that matter domestic converts? I will be eagerly waiting to see your response.

I want to raise awareness that fear and anger feed hate. If you feel like a victim then you are one.

I'm more concerned by the loss of civil liberties that has eroded since the so-called "war on terror".

Then go make a thread dealing with that and stop attempting to derail this one. Thanks.

I plan on staying on this thread, Tilly. My comments are completely relevant to this discussion..

 

[Tilly]

Islam bashing thread.

Do you want to grow hate or love in your heart? Your choice. Decide which you choose to feed.

As an American I want to raise awareness that we are the targets of Islamic extremists who could look like anyone. Some look European, some look Black and some look Hispanic or Semitic. With Taqiyya sanctioned as a tool of convenience where deception and lying to NON Muslims is OK, those concerns have to be discussed. For our own welfare and safety,we must be vigilant, scrutinize every suspicious act and report it promptly; regardless of the physiognomy of the suspicious person. I am not anti-ISLAM but I am definitely anti-Jihadist. I am not fond of ISIS or Al Queda. So now, tell me, what is YOUR solution for separating those elements from the pack of Muslim immigrants and refugees; or, for that matter domestic converts? I will be eagerly waiting to see your response.

I want to raise awareness that fear and anger feed hate. If you feel like a victim then you are one.

I'm more concerned by the loss of civil liberties that has eroded since the so-called "war on terror".

Then go make a thread dealing with that and stop attempting to derail this one. Thanks.

I plan on staying on this thread, Tilly. My comments are completely relevant to this discussion..

Your asinine comments have nothing whatsoever to do with The thread title and you are contributing absolutely nothing. But do what you will. Anyone who prefers the thread not to be derailed can simply ignore you.

 

[Tilly]

Islam bashing thread.

Do you want to grow hate or love in your heart? Your choice. Decide which you choose to feed.

As an American I want to raise awareness that we are the targets of Islamic extremists who could look like anyone. Some look European, some look Black and some look Hispanic or Semitic. With Taqiyya sanctioned as a tool of convenience where deception and lying to NON Muslims is OK, those concerns have to be discussed. For our own welfare and safety,we must be vigilant, scrutinize every suspicious act and report it promptly; regardless of the physiognomy of the suspicious person. I am not anti-ISLAM but I am definitely anti-Jihadist. I am not fond of ISIS or Al Queda. So now, tell me, what is YOUR solution for separating those elements from the pack of Muslim immigrants and refugees; or, for that matter domestic converts? I will be eagerly waiting to see your response.

I want to raise awareness that fear and anger feed hate. If you feel like a victim then you are one.

I'm more concerned by the loss of civil liberties that has eroded since the so-called "war on terror".

Iran, specifically, is not a democracy. America IS and we have opened our borders and access to our way of life to Muslims from all over the world. That has been the case for as long as I can remember...decades. Iran has not shown the "love" you are so worried about Americans having.

About 90% of your population is Shia Muslim but Iran is also home to around 300,000 Christians and the largest Jewish population in the ME outside of Israel. That shows some degree of tolerance that I had not expected

Tolerance?

UN report blasts Iran for persecution of Christians, other religious minorities
By Benjamin Weinthal

Published March 21, 2014
FoxNews.com

Iranian President Hassan Rouhani claims to be a moderate, but he has had little positive impact on the plight of religious minorities in the Islamic republic. (AP) (2013 Getty Images)

The election last year of self-professed moderate President Hassan Rouhani has not brought Iran's Christians any relief, according to a new United Nations report which finds the Islamic Republic's Bible believers more persecuted than ever.

The detailed report finds Iran has continued to imprison Christians for their faith and designated house churches and evangelical Christians as "threats to national security.” At least 49 Christians were among 307 religious minorities being held in Iranian jails as of January 2014, noted the UN, which also blasted the regime for its hostility to Jews, Baha’is, Zoroastrians and Dervish Muslims, the UN report stated.

“These are indicators that President Rouhani has no influence over hard-liners, who remain fully in charge of the judiciary and security apparatus, government entities that are responsible for the most severe abuses against religious minorities," Dwight Bashir, deputy director for policy at the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, told FoxNews.com.

[pullquote]

Among the Christians held in Iranian prisons is American citizen and Christian pastor Saeed Abedini, who is serving an eight-year prison term for alleged crimes related to his faith. President Obama has called for Abedini's release, even as his administration has negotiated a disarmament deal with Iran.

"This report is as an important reminder about the true nature of the Iranian regime," Sen. Mark Kirk, (R-III), told FoxNews.com. "We can't pretend we are negotiating with Western moderates – we are negotiating with Islamic radicals who persecute Christians, Baha'is, other religious and ethnic minorities and women, while denying all of its citizens basic human rights -- including the freedom of speech and assembly."

In 2013, Iranian authorities arrested “at least 42 Christians, of whom 35 were convicted for participation in informal "house churches," in association with churches outside the Islamic Republic of Iran, perceived or real evangelical activity and other standard Christian activities.”

Iran’s opaque justice system imposed prison sentences on Christians ranging from one to ten years.

“Under the law, religious minorities, including recognized Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians, also face discrimination in the judicial system, such as harsher punishments,” said Shaheed, who is an internationally recognized expert on human rights.

While the persecution detailed in the report includes wrongful imprisonment and even death sentences, it also takes more subtle forms. Ahmed Shaheed, UN special rapporteur on the situation of human rights in Iran, said Iranian Christians have reported having viruses planted on their computers after visiting Christian websites.


Continues:

UN report blasts Iran for persecution of Christians, other religious minorities | Fox News

 

[JQPublic1]

Islam bashing thread.

Do you want to grow hate or love in your heart? Your choice. Decide which you choose to feed.

As an American I want to raise awareness that we are the targets of Islamic extremists who could look like anyone. Some look European, some look Black and some look Hispanic or Semitic. With Taqiyya sanctioned as a tool of convenience where deception and lying to NON Muslims is OK, those concerns have to be discussed. For our own welfare and safety,we must be vigilant, scrutinize every suspicious act and report it promptly; regardless of the physiognomy of the suspicious person. I am not anti-ISLAM but I am definitely anti-Jihadist. I am not fond of ISIS or Al Queda. So now, tell me, what is YOUR solution for separating those elements from the pack of Muslim immigrants and refugees; or, for that matter domestic converts? I will be eagerly waiting to see your response.

I want to raise awareness that fear and anger feed hate. If you feel like a victim then you are one.

I'm more concerned by the loss of civil liberties that has eroded since the so-called "war on terror".

Iran, specifically, is not a democracy. America IS and we have opened our borders and access to our way of life to Muslims from all over the world. That has been the case for as long as I can remember...decades. Iran has not shown the "love" you are so worried about Americans having.

About 90% of your population is Shia Muslim but Iran is also home to around 300,000 Christians and the largest Jewish population in the ME outside of Israel. That shows some degree of tolerance that I had not expected

We are a democracy. Any Muslims in America must abide by our cultural values as Americans. I don't think supporting fear and anger and saying the religion of Islam itself is flawed helps us defeat terrorism.

Separation of church and state. We don't have a national religion. That's one of our great strengths as a nation.

I welcome your opinions, dharma. You are providing an insight to Iranian culture and political life that is rarely mentioned in these circles. Please do not think that I am a Muslim basher . I am just seeking some answers to questions that have arisen over the past few years concerning the negative effect Islam extremists might have on my life and those of people I love. Now back to the debate.

I am somewhat skeptical of your assertion that Iran is a Democracy since the Supreme Leader ( Ayatollah) is the ultimate alpha male there. The President, the uni-cameral legislative body and your judiciary are all subordinate to the Ayatollah.

Separation of Church and State is, it seems , merely political window dressing in the Iranian political /theocratic hierarchy.

 

[JQPublic1]

Islam bashing thread.

Do you want to grow hate or love in your heart? Your choice. Decide which you choose to feed.

As an American I want to raise awareness that we are the targets of Islamic extremists who could look like anyone. Some look European, some look Black and some look Hispanic or Semitic. With Taqiyya sanctioned as a tool of convenience where deception and lying to NON Muslims is OK, those concerns have to be discussed. For our own welfare and safety,we must be vigilant, scrutinize every suspicious act and report it promptly; regardless of the physiognomy of the suspicious person. I am not anti-ISLAM but I am definitely anti-Jihadist. I am not fond of ISIS or Al Queda. So now, tell me, what is YOUR solution for separating those elements from the pack of Muslim immigrants and refugees; or, for that matter domestic converts? I will be eagerly waiting to see your response.

I want to raise awareness that fear and anger feed hate. If you feel like a victim then you are one.

I'm more concerned by the loss of civil liberties that has eroded since the so-called "war on terror".

Iran, specifically, is not a democracy. America IS and we have opened our borders and access to our way of life to Muslims from all over the world. That has been the case for as long as I can remember...decades. Iran has not shown the "love" you are so worried about Americans having.

About 90% of your population is Shia Muslim but Iran is also home to around 300,000 Christians and the largest Jewish population in the ME outside of Israel. That shows some degree of tolerance that I had not expected

Tolerance?

UN report blasts Iran for persecution of Christians, other religious minorities
By Benjamin Weinthal

Published March 21, 2014
FoxNews.com

Iranian President Hassan Rouhani claims to be a moderate, but he has had little positive impact on the plight of religious minorities in the Islamic republic. (AP) (2013 Getty Images)

The election last year of self-professed moderate President Hassan Rouhani has not brought Iran's Christians any relief, according to a new United Nations report which finds the Islamic Republic's Bible believers more persecuted than ever.

The detailed report finds Iran has continued to imprison Christians for their faith and designated house churches and evangelical Christians as "threats to national security.” At least 49 Christians were among 307 religious minorities being held in Iranian jails as of January 2014, noted the UN, which also blasted the regime for its hostility to Jews, Baha’is, Zoroastrians and Dervish Muslims, the UN report stated.

“These are indicators that President Rouhani has no influence over hard-liners, who remain fully in charge of the judiciary and security apparatus, government entities that are responsible for the most severe abuses against religious minorities," Dwight Bashir, deputy director for policy at the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, told FoxNews.com.

[pullquote]

Among the Christians held in Iranian prisons is American citizen and Christian pastor Saeed Abedini, who is serving an eight-year prison term for alleged crimes related to his faith. President Obama has called for Abedini's release, even as his administration has negotiated a disarmament deal with Iran.

"This report is as an important reminder about the true nature of the Iranian regime," Sen. Mark Kirk, (R-III), told FoxNews.com. "We can't pretend we are negotiating with Western moderates – we are negotiating with Islamic radicals who persecute Christians, Baha'is, other religious and ethnic minorities and women, while denying all of its citizens basic human rights -- including the freedom of speech and assembly."

In 2013, Iranian authorities arrested “at least 42 Christians, of whom 35 were convicted for participation in informal "house churches," in association with churches outside the Islamic Republic of Iran, perceived or real evangelical activity and other standard Christian activities.”

Iran’s opaque justice system imposed prison sentences on Christians ranging from one to ten years.

“Under the law, religious minorities, including recognized Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians, also face discrimination in the judicial system, such as harsher punishments,” said Shaheed, who is an internationally recognized expert on human rights.

While the persecution detailed in the report includes wrongful imprisonment and even death sentences, it also takes more subtle forms. Ahmed Shaheed, UN special rapporteur on the situation of human rights in Iran, said Iranian Christians have reported having viruses planted on their computers after visiting Christian websites.


Continues:

UN report blasts Iran for persecution of Christians, other religious minorities | Fox News

I also welcome your input, Tilly. This is exactly what I wanted. A healthy exchange of opposing ideas. Both you and Dhara have posited some very compelling arguments that are sure to stimulate research by all interested parties.

 

[Two Thumbs]

wow, that's a tiny number

But obviously more than you first thought!

no, I thought there was at least 10k

at 3500 they don't make the +-3%

 

[Mudda]

Islam bashing thread.

Do you want to grow hate or love in your heart? Your choice. Decide which you choose to feed.

I'm loving to hate Mooslims. They bring it on themselves though.

 

[JQPublic1]

wow, that's a tiny number

But obviously more than you first thought!

no, I thought there was at least 10k

at 3500 they don't make the +-3%

UPDATE:

The 2011 figures I posted have changed considerably in 4 years:

There may be thousands of Muslim soldiers the US military. Over 400,000 soldiers did NOT report their religious faith. Many of those non- reporters could be Muslims who wanted to serve without all the harassment or some might just have played the Taqiyya card. Does that make you feel any better?

 

[JQPublic1]

Islam bashing thread.

Do you want to grow hate or love in your heart? Your choice. Decide which you choose to feed.

I'm loving to hate Mooslims. They bring it on themselves though.

well, no they don't bring it on themselves. Certain extremist factions are trying hard to make you believe as you do. Apparently , their strategy is working.

 

[Dhara]

Islam bashing thread.

Do you want to grow hate or love in your heart? Your choice. Decide which you choose to feed.

I'm loving to hate Mooslims. They bring it on themselves though.

I can't imagine hating feels good. But of course, it's your choice.

 

[Two Thumbs]

wow, that's a tiny number

But obviously more than you first thought!

no, I thought there was at least 10k

at 3500 they don't make the +-3%

UPDATE:

The 2011 figures I posted have changed considerably in 4 years:

There may be thousands of Muslim soldiers the US military. Over 400,000 soldiers did NOT report their religious faith. Many of those non- reporters could be Muslims who wanted to serve without all the harassment or some might just have played the Taqiyya card. Does that make you feel any better?

no

That's still an incredibly small number and the only way for people to harass you over your faith is if you tell them

 

[longknife]

I served with Muslims in the military and never had a problem with a single one of them. They took seriously the oath of allegiance they swore when enlisting and performed their jobs as well as anybody. Those who prayed, did so before and after duty hours.

 

[Tilly]

Islam bashing thread.

Do you want to grow hate or love in your heart? Your choice. Decide which you choose to feed.

As an American I want to raise awareness that we are the targets of Islamic extremists who could look like anyone. Some look European, some look Black and some look Hispanic or Semitic. With Taqiyya sanctioned as a tool of convenience where deception and lying to NON Muslims is OK, those concerns have to be discussed. For our own welfare and safety,we must be vigilant, scrutinize every suspicious act and report it promptly; regardless of the physiognomy of the suspicious person. I am not anti-ISLAM but I am definitely anti-Jihadist. I am not fond of ISIS or Al Queda. So now, tell me, what is YOUR solution for separating those elements from the pack of Muslim immigrants and refugees; or, for that matter domestic converts? I will be eagerly waiting to see your response.

I want to raise awareness that fear and anger feed hate. If you feel like a victim then you are one.

I'm more concerned by the loss of civil liberties that has eroded since the so-called "war on terror".

Iran, specifically, is not a democracy. America IS and we have opened our borders and access to our way of life to Muslims from all over the world. That has been the case for as long as I can remember...decades. Iran has not shown the "love" you are so worried about Americans having.

About 90% of your population is Shia Muslim but Iran is also home to around 300,000 Christians and the largest Jewish population in the ME outside of Israel. That shows some degree of tolerance that I had not expected

We are a democracy. Any Muslims in America must abide by our cultural values as Americans. I don't think supporting fear and anger and saying the religion of Islam itself is flawed helps us defeat terrorism.

Separation of church and state. We don't have a national religion. That's one of our great strengths as a nation.

I welcome your opinions, dharma. You are providing an insight to Iranian culture and political life that is rarely mentioned in these circles. Please do not think that I am a Muslim basher . I am just seeking some answers to questions that have arisen over the past few years concerning the negative effect Islam extremists might have on my life and those of people I love. Now back to the debate.

I am somewhat skeptical of your assertion that Iran is a Democracy since the Supreme Leader ( Ayatollah) is the ultimate alpha male there. The President, the uni-cameral legislative body and your judiciary are all subordinate to the Ayatollah.

Separation of Church and State is, it seems , merely political window dressing in the Iranian political /theocratic hierarchy.

Iran is a theocracy.

 

[JQPublic1]

As an American I want to raise awareness that we are the targets of Islamic extremists who could look like anyone. Some look European, some look Black and some look Hispanic or Semitic. With Taqiyya sanctioned as a tool of convenience where deception and lying to NON Muslims is OK, those concerns have to be discussed. For our own welfare and safety,we must be vigilant, scrutinize every suspicious act and report it promptly; regardless of the physiognomy of the suspicious person. I am not anti-ISLAM but I am definitely anti-Jihadist. I am not fond of ISIS or Al Queda. So now, tell me, what is YOUR solution for separating those elements from the pack of Muslim immigrants and refugees; or, for that matter domestic converts? I will be eagerly waiting to see your response.

I want to raise awareness that fear and anger feed hate. If you feel like a victim then you are one.

I'm more concerned by the loss of civil liberties that has eroded since the so-called "war on terror".

Iran, specifically, is not a democracy. America IS and we have opened our borders and access to our way of life to Muslims from all over the world. That has been the case for as long as I can remember...decades. Iran has not shown the "love" you are so worried about Americans having.

About 90% of your population is Shia Muslim but Iran is also home to around 300,000 Christians and the largest Jewish population in the ME outside of Israel. That shows some degree of tolerance that I had not expected

We are a democracy. Any Muslims in America must abide by our cultural values as Americans. I don't think supporting fear and anger and saying the religion of Islam itself is flawed helps us defeat terrorism.

Separation of church and state. We don't have a national religion. That's one of our great strengths as a nation.

I welcome your opinions, dharma. You are providing an insight to Iranian culture and political life that is rarely mentioned in these circles. Please do not think that I am a Muslim basher . I am just seeking some answers to questions that have arisen over the past few years concerning the negative effect Islam extremists might have on my life and those of people I love. Now back to the debate.

I am somewhat skeptical of your assertion that Iran is a Democracy since the Supreme Leader ( Ayatollah) is the ultimate alpha male there. The President, the uni-cameral legislative body and your judiciary are all subordinate to the Ayatollah.

Separation of Church and State is, it seems , merely political window dressing in the Iranian political /theocratic hierarchy.

Iran is a theocracy.

See the petty red letters...they mean something, don't they?

 

[Desperado]

Absolutely not......
Muslims cannot get that there is a difference between the church and state.

 

[JQPublic1]

wow, that's a tiny number

But obviously more than you first thought!

no, I thought there was at least 10k

at 3500 they don't make the +-3%

UPDATE:

The 2011 figures I posted have changed considerably in 4 years:

There may be thousands of Muslim soldiers the US military. Over 400,000 soldiers did NOT report their religious faith. Many of those non- reporters could be Muslims who wanted to serve without all the harassment or some might just have played the Taqiyya card. Does that make you feel any better?

no

That's still an incredibly small number and the only way for people to harass you over your faith is if you tell them

Do you agree there may be many more Muslims in the military due to underreporting..for the reasons I have already stated?

 

[Tilly]

I want to raise awareness that fear and anger feed hate. If you feel like a victim then you are one.

I'm more concerned by the loss of civil liberties that has eroded since the so-called "war on terror".

Iran, specifically, is not a democracy. America IS and we have opened our borders and access to our way of life to Muslims from all over the world. That has been the case for as long as I can remember...decades. Iran has not shown the "love" you are so worried about Americans having.

About 90% of your population is Shia Muslim but Iran is also home to around 300,000 Christians and the largest Jewish population in the ME outside of Israel. That shows some degree of tolerance that I had not expected

We are a democracy. Any Muslims in America must abide by our cultural values as Americans. I don't think supporting fear and anger and saying the religion of Islam itself is flawed helps us defeat terrorism.

Separation of church and state. We don't have a national religion. That's one of our great strengths as a nation.

I welcome your opinions, dharma. You are providing an insight to Iranian culture and political life that is rarely mentioned in these circles. Please do not think that I am a Muslim basher . I am just seeking some answers to questions that have arisen over the past few years concerning the negative effect Islam extremists might have on my life and those of people I love. Now back to the debate.

I am somewhat skeptical of your assertion that Iran is a Democracy since the Supreme Leader ( Ayatollah) is the ultimate alpha male there. The President, the uni-cameral legislative body and your judiciary are all subordinate to the Ayatollah.

Separation of Church and State is, it seems , merely political window dressing in the Iranian political /theocratic hierarchy.

Iran is a theocracy.

See the petty red letters...they mean something, don't they?

Yes I'm agreeing with the pretty red letters, and addressing the skepticism you claimed to have over this issue in the first sentence of your second paragraph. I'm a multitasker

 

[Tilly]

wow, that's a tiny number

But obviously more than you first thought!

no, I thought there was at least 10k

at 3500 they don't make the +-3%

UPDATE:

The 2011 figures I posted have changed considerably in 4 years:

There may be thousands of Muslim soldiers the US military. Over 400,000 soldiers did NOT report their religious faith. Many of those non- reporters could be Muslims who wanted to serve without all the harassment or some might just have played the Taqiyya card. Does that make you feel any better?

no

That's still an incredibly small number and the only way for people to harass you over your faith is if you tell them

Do you agree there may be many more Muslims in the military due to underreporting..for the reasons I have already stated?

How can one know?

 

[Sunni Man]

After this period, in medina (yathrib before mo conquered it), Allah conveniently revealed to Mohammed that new revelations would overule previous ones, ie revelations of the medinian period overule those of Meccan revelations.

Total BS ......

 

[Tilly]

After this period, in medina (yathrib before mo conquered it), Allah conveniently revealed to Mohammed that new revelations would overule previous ones, ie revelations of the medinian period overule those of Meccan revelations.

Total BS ......

Ahhh, so you've taken me off ignore. Good. Care to elaborate on what precisely is bs? Thank you in advance.