CDZ Do "liberals" really want to ban the AR-15 ?

[M14 Shooter]

I'd like to intervene here: Here is a report on the Australian ban:
"Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms: faster falls in firearm deaths, firearm suicides, and a decade without mass shootings

Two questions regarding your post:
Do you understand the correlation = causation fallacy?
Do you know how much gun related crime in the US fell 1993-2014, absent OZ-style gun control, where scores of millions of guns were sold, including millions upon millions of 'assault weapons'?

 

[M14 Shooter]

That's the frustrating thing. The solution is clear as day

It is.. but the anti-gun left, interested only in laying as many restrictions upon the law abiding as they can, refuses to consider it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

'Do "liberals" really want to ban the AR-15 ?'
No. of course not.

You need to turn on the TV and peruse some social media - the anti-gun left is SCREAMING for the AR15 (et al) to be banned.
But, you knew that when you posted,

 

[JQPublic1]

The pathos-driven warrant suggested by the OP, though quite macabre, could well work if combined with the rational appeals that have been tried to date. Rhetoric 101: make a strong rational argument and drive it home with an emotion inspiring warrant, but the warrant alone won't do the trick.

What's clear is that the rational approach alone hasn't worked; a more poignant solution is needed. Strangely, the video sequences showing several sanguinary survivors is insufficiently inspiring. Perhaps we can blame bloody video games and crime dramas for our cultural insouciance toward the reality of death by gunshot.

This is what gunshot violence looks like in video games, idealized art and television

(Boston Massacre)


​

This is what it actually looks like when people get shot:

I hope my friend 2AGUY is taking all of this in. And these are just the pictures of adults.

Yeah...that is the thing....we know that you anit gunners pray for these mass shootings and wade through the blood of the victims to drag their bodies in front of the camera...we get that....

See, mass shootings do not help the cause of the pro 2nd Amendment side.....when an armed citizen stops an attacker with a gun.....there are fewer dead, if any....and no pictures to go with that.....since most defensive gun use is accomplished without firing a shot....we don't have pictures to show....since the people saved by the good guy with the gun is still alive.....

In reality...what your pictures will show...is what happens when you disarm normal, law abiding people......the carnage that results...as we saw in this nightclub.....where time after time there were opportunities for a civilian with a gun to stop the shooter, if they had only had a gun themselves....

Those pictures are what you create....when you create gun free zones, and disarm normal people...

So you have to lie....and say that those pictures represent the good people owning guns...and it is a lie.....the entire anti gun movement is based on lies.....thanks for showing that.....and admitting it.

I don't have to lie when images can speak for my cause. You have interpreted the use of those images as an indictment of all gun owners. It is not. It is an indictment of the weapons that caused the carnage.

I do agree that "soft" targets like gun free zones and school yards are particularly vulnerable to this type of attack. But I don't think most school kids are going to be armed and ready to defend themselves. Some inner city schools might have such students but are you suggesting the child victims of Sandy Hook and Stockton should have had guns. Or maybe the teachers should be armed in every school. Is that the answer?

You mentioned the Florida massacre as an example of how vulnerable a gun free zone can be. But did you consider that in a barroom setting where alcohol is served it isn'a a good idea to have a bunch of inebriated people with guns in a crowded room? That is the scene at hand; but ,did you know there was a security guard present? I don't know if he/she was armed but the guard was the first one to die according to the Joe Madison talk show during an interview with survivors.

Good people owning guns? Are there any good people owning guns, especially assault rifle type guns? Jesus didn't carry a gun but none of us are like Him. I think liberals are closer than conservatives who love guns designed to assist in violating the Commandment that reads: THOU SHALT NOT KILL!

 

[JQPublic1]

If they do, they haven't been serious about it. They have ignored one of the most convenient tools for getting that message across to the public. That tool is graphics. Before you protest consider this:


When I was in high school, we were shown graphic scenes of traffic accident fatalities in vivid color. Those imagers still haunt me to day, and definitely had an immediate effect on most of us. We didn't stop driving but most students didn't speed as much or drink and drive as much for weeks.

Also consider this: There are places where you could walk down a busy thoroughfare and see poster sized images of aborted fetuses in vivid color. Those images, undoubtedly caused a lot of public backlash against abortion and contributed greatly to the RW Pro-Life cause.

But we have been spared the images of the mangled bodies of children killed at Sandy Hook by weapons like the AR-15. The liberals have not been as aggressive as the conservatives have at getting depictions of carnage posted and published. Liberals, if you want to be taken seriously on banning weapons like the AR-15 post images of the massacred people in Florida and of Sandy Hook. Bring those images forth to dwell on the public conscience. Be as dogged in that quest as the RW zealots have been in theirs.

You're correct and if the Progressive wanted to ban the AR-15 they would be working harder than waiting for the next lone wolf attack and praying it is the AR-15 or another semi-automatic weapon that kills scores of people.

Also let stop with the nonsense and admit that President Obama, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi failed the Progressive left on this issue. From 2009 to 2011 the Progressive Left had a House and Senate that could have passed another Assault Weapon Ban and did not, so why did they fail the Progressive Left?

Also why is it that President Obama waited until his own party lost the House to make their argument about having another Assault Weapon Ban?

Why wait until the GOP was in power of the House and now the Senate to push this agenda?

Simple, it is a wedge issue like immigration and he is using the Assault Weapon Ban to score political points with the hope the American people will forget his own Party did nothing when they had the chance to do something.

I am against anymore laws that will not do a damn thing and if President Obama had really cared about stopping those Semi-Automatic weapons like the AR-15 getting into the hands of criminals and terrorists then his own political party should have done something when they had the power to do something and not expect the opposition party to do their job for them...

When Obama became president none of the 10 massacres during his administration had taken place. Gun reform legislation was' not on his agenda until the body count of innocents started to rise precipitously. But he no longer had a majority democrat congress by then.

 

[JQPublic1]

I'd like to intervene here: Here is a report on the Australian ban:
"Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms: faster falls in firearm deaths, firearm suicides, and a decade without mass shootings

Two questions regarding your post:
Do you understand the correlation = causation fallacy?
Do you know how much gun related crime in the US fell 1993-2014, absent OZ-style gun control, where scores of millions of guns were sold, including millions upon millions of 'assault weapons'?

Sure I do, but I didn't write the article you cited. If your data is correct and you can make the correlation between increased gun ownership and a decrease in crime, kudos to you. But the link I provided shows even more of a dramatic decrease in all facets of shooting deaths due to the Aussie ban.. The lack of mass shooting after the ban is particularly notable.. Your "correlation" falls far short of that mark!

 

[JQPublic1]

If they do, they haven't been serious about it. They have ignored one of the most convenient tools for getting that message across to the public. That tool is graphics. Before you protest consider this:


When I was in high school, we were shown graphic scenes of traffic accident fatalities in vivid color. Those imagers still haunt me to day, and definitely had an immediate effect on most of us. We didn't stop driving but most students didn't speed as much or drink and drive as much for weeks.

Also consider this: There are places where you could walk down a busy thoroughfare and see poster sized images of aborted fetuses in vivid color. Those images, undoubtedly caused a lot of public backlash against abortion and contributed greatly to the RW Pro-Life cause.

But we have been spared the images of the mangled bodies of children killed at Sandy Hook by weapons like the AR-15. The liberals have not been as aggressive as the conservatives have at getting depictions of carnage posted and published. Liberals, if you want to be taken seriously on banning weapons like the AR-15 post images of the massacred people in Florida and of Sandy Hook. Bring those images forth to dwell on the public conscience. Be as dogged in that quest as the RW zealots have been in theirs.

My view, as a Liberal, is that America is so messed up, changing laws slightly to ban or not ban isn't going to make much difference. So many things don't work properly, from democracy to education and beyond, that the US is going downhill and individual laws on insignificant things like this don't matter much any more.

I wouldn't be so quick to give up on America. Keep hope alive. Fight 'til the end. Anything worth loving is worth fighting for.. That goes for gun advocates as well as their opposition. May good sense and good moral judgement prevail in either case. Hail to the 2nd amendment!

 

[frigidweirdo]

If they do, they haven't been serious about it. They have ignored one of the most convenient tools for getting that message across to the public. That tool is graphics. Before you protest consider this:


When I was in high school, we were shown graphic scenes of traffic accident fatalities in vivid color. Those imagers still haunt me to day, and definitely had an immediate effect on most of us. We didn't stop driving but most students didn't speed as much or drink and drive as much for weeks.

Also consider this: There are places where you could walk down a busy thoroughfare and see poster sized images of aborted fetuses in vivid color. Those images, undoubtedly caused a lot of public backlash against abortion and contributed greatly to the RW Pro-Life cause.

But we have been spared the images of the mangled bodies of children killed at Sandy Hook by weapons like the AR-15. The liberals have not been as aggressive as the conservatives have at getting depictions of carnage posted and published. Liberals, if you want to be taken seriously on banning weapons like the AR-15 post images of the massacred people in Florida and of Sandy Hook. Bring those images forth to dwell on the public conscience. Be as dogged in that quest as the RW zealots have been in theirs.

My view, as a Liberal, is that America is so messed up, changing laws slightly to ban or not ban isn't going to make much difference. So many things don't work properly, from democracy to education and beyond, that the US is going downhill and individual laws on insignificant things like this don't matter much any more.

I wouldn't be so quick to give up on America. Keep hope alive. Fight 'til the end. Anything worth loving is worth fighting for.. That goes for gun advocates as well as their opposition. May good sense and good moral judgement prevail in either case. Hail to the 2nd amendment!

The 2A is so abused as it is, people who claim it means a right to carry, for example, and they're trying to say it enough until it becomes true.

 

[JQPublic1]

If they do, they haven't been serious about it. They have ignored one of the most convenient tools for getting that message across to the public. That tool is graphics. Before you protest consider this:


When I was in high school, we were shown graphic scenes of traffic accident fatalities in vivid color. Those imagers still haunt me to day, and definitely had an immediate effect on most of us. We didn't stop driving but most students didn't speed as much or drink and drive as much for weeks.

Also consider this: There are places where you could walk down a busy thoroughfare and see poster sized images of aborted fetuses in vivid color. Those images, undoubtedly caused a lot of public backlash against abortion and contributed greatly to the RW Pro-Life cause.

But we have been spared the images of the mangled bodies of children killed at Sandy Hook by weapons like the AR-15. The liberals have not been as aggressive as the conservatives have at getting depictions of carnage posted and published. Liberals, if you want to be taken seriously on banning weapons like the AR-15 post images of the massacred people in Florida and of Sandy Hook. Bring those images forth to dwell on the public conscience. Be as dogged in that quest as the RW zealots have been in theirs.

My view, as a Liberal, is that America is so messed up, changing laws slightly to ban or not ban isn't going to make much difference. So many things don't work properly, from democracy to education and beyond, that the US is going downhill and individual laws on insignificant things like this don't matter much any more.

I wouldn't be so quick to give up on America. Keep hope alive. Fight 'til the end. Anything worth loving is worth fighting for.. That goes for gun advocates as well as their opposition. May good sense and good moral judgement prevail in either case. Hail to the 2nd amendment!

The 2A is so abused as it is, people who claim it means a right to carry, for example, and they're trying to say it enough until it becomes true.

I'll leave that interpretation up to the Supreme Court. Whatever they say is the law of the land.! Americans on both sides of the issue just need to marshal their resources to get USSC justices elected who think as they do! May the best organized and people oriented side win!

 

[frigidweirdo]

If they do, they haven't been serious about it. They have ignored one of the most convenient tools for getting that message across to the public. That tool is graphics. Before you protest consider this:


When I was in high school, we were shown graphic scenes of traffic accident fatalities in vivid color. Those imagers still haunt me to day, and definitely had an immediate effect on most of us. We didn't stop driving but most students didn't speed as much or drink and drive as much for weeks.

Also consider this: There are places where you could walk down a busy thoroughfare and see poster sized images of aborted fetuses in vivid color. Those images, undoubtedly caused a lot of public backlash against abortion and contributed greatly to the RW Pro-Life cause.

But we have been spared the images of the mangled bodies of children killed at Sandy Hook by weapons like the AR-15. The liberals have not been as aggressive as the conservatives have at getting depictions of carnage posted and published. Liberals, if you want to be taken seriously on banning weapons like the AR-15 post images of the massacred people in Florida and of Sandy Hook. Bring those images forth to dwell on the public conscience. Be as dogged in that quest as the RW zealots have been in theirs.

My view, as a Liberal, is that America is so messed up, changing laws slightly to ban or not ban isn't going to make much difference. So many things don't work properly, from democracy to education and beyond, that the US is going downhill and individual laws on insignificant things like this don't matter much any more.

I wouldn't be so quick to give up on America. Keep hope alive. Fight 'til the end. Anything worth loving is worth fighting for.. That goes for gun advocates as well as their opposition. May good sense and good moral judgement prevail in either case. Hail to the 2nd amendment!

The 2A is so abused as it is, people who claim it means a right to carry, for example, and they're trying to say it enough until it becomes true.

I'll leave that interpretation up to the Supreme Court. Whatever they say is the law of the land.! Americans on both sides of the issue just need to marshal their resources to get USSC justices elected who think as they do! May the best organized and people oriented side win!

And the Supreme Court has become so politicized it's ridiculous.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I'd like to intervene here: Here is a report on the Australian ban:
"Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms: faster falls in firearm deaths, firearm suicides, and a decade without mass shootings

Two questions regarding your post:
Do you understand the correlation = causation fallacy?
Do you know how much gun related crime in the US fell 1993-2014, absent OZ-style gun control, where scores of millions of guns were sold, including millions upon millions of 'assault weapons'?

Sure I do, but I didn't write the article you cited. If your data is correct and you can make the correlation between increased gun ownership and a decrease in crime, kudos to you. But the link I provided shows even more of a dramatic decrease in all facets of shooting deaths due to the Aussie ban.. The lack of mass shooting after the ban is particularly notable.. Your "correlation" falls far short of that mark!

I never claimed any correlation.
My point is that gun-related crime in the US, including gun-related murder, over the same period of time, fell more than than in OZ, absent their increases in gun control.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

If they do, they haven't been serious about it. They have ignored one of the most convenient tools for getting that message across to the public. That tool is graphics. Before you protest consider this:


When I was in high school, we were shown graphic scenes of traffic accident fatalities in vivid color. Those imagers still haunt me to day, and definitely had an immediate effect on most of us. We didn't stop driving but most students didn't speed as much or drink and drive as much for weeks.

Also consider this: There are places where you could walk down a busy thoroughfare and see poster sized images of aborted fetuses in vivid color. Those images, undoubtedly caused a lot of public backlash against abortion and contributed greatly to the RW Pro-Life cause.

But we have been spared the images of the mangled bodies of children killed at Sandy Hook by weapons like the AR-15. The liberals have not been as aggressive as the conservatives have at getting depictions of carnage posted and published. Liberals, if you want to be taken seriously on banning weapons like the AR-15 post images of the massacred people in Florida and of Sandy Hook. Bring those images forth to dwell on the public conscience. Be as dogged in that quest as the RW zealots have been in theirs.

You're correct and if the Progressive wanted to ban the AR-15 they would be working harder than waiting for the next lone wolf attack and praying it is the AR-15 or another semi-automatic weapon that kills scores of people.

Also let stop with the nonsense and admit that President Obama, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi failed the Progressive left on this issue. From 2009 to 2011 the Progressive Left had a House and Senate that could have passed another Assault Weapon Ban and did not, so why did they fail the Progressive Left?

Also why is it that President Obama waited until his own party lost the House to make their argument about having another Assault Weapon Ban?

Why wait until the GOP was in power of the House and now the Senate to push this agenda?

Simple, it is a wedge issue like immigration and he is using the Assault Weapon Ban to score political points with the hope the American people will forget his own Party did nothing when they had the chance to do something.

I am against anymore laws that will not do a damn thing and if President Obama had really cared about stopping those Semi-Automatic weapons like the AR-15 getting into the hands of criminals and terrorists then his own political party should have done something when they had the power to do something and not expect the opposition party to do their job for them...

When Obama became president none of the 10 massacres during his administration had taken place. Gun reform legislation was' not on his agenda until the body count of innocents started to rise precipitously. But he no longer had a majority democrat congress by then.

Excuses after excuses and Mass shootings have been going on forever...

So when the Assault Weapon Ban expired in 2004 why didn't the 2009 Congress introduce a new Assault Weapons Ban?

You can not say that because something did not happen at this point or that point is a true excuse when you already had the law on the books before, so why the failure?

 

[2aguy]

this thread is about using fear to undermine our Constitutional rights.

something a liberal would never do, but leftist do on a regular basis.

The NRA thanks you for lining their pockets. Because that's literally all you're doing.

I support the free market.
I support freedom
I support the Constitution


Why don't you?

Do you think more laws will stop the violence?

look up how many laws and bans on arms there already are, then ask yourself that again.

if you still think it's yes, there's no hope for you

I'd like to intervene here: Here is a report on the Australian ban:

"Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms: faster falls in firearm deaths, firearm suicides, and a decade without mass shootings

Background: After a 1996 firearm massacre in Tasmania in which 35 people died, Australian governments united to remove semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns and rifles from civilian possession, as a key component of gun law reforms.

Objective: To determine whether Australia’s 1996 major gun law reforms were associated with changes in rates of mass firearm homicides, total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides, and whether there were any apparent method substitution effects for total homicides and suicides.

Design: Observational study using official statistics. Negative binomial regression analysis of changes in firearm death rates and comparison of trends in pre–post gun law reform firearm-related mass killings. Setting: Australia, 1979–2003.

Main outcome measures: Changes in trends of total firearm death rates, mass fatal shooting incidents, rates of firearm homicide, suicide and unintentional firearm deaths, and of total homicides and suicides per 100 000 population.

Results: In the 18 years before the gun law reforms, there were 13 mass shootings in Australia, and none in the 10.5 years afterwards. Declines in firearm-related deaths before the law reforms accelerated after the reforms for total firearm deaths (p = 0.04), firearm suicides (p = 0.007) and firearm homicides (p = 0.15), but not for the smallest category of unintentional firearm deaths, which increased. No evidence of substitution effect for suicides or homicides was observed. The rates per 100 000 of total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides all at least doubled their existing rates of decline after the revised gun laws. Conclusions: Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides. Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides."

http://jeffsachs.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Australia-Gun-Law-Reforms.pdf

Yeah...not true...the Australians had few mass shootings before the ban......in fact they have had 3 since the ban....they just pretend they didn't happen

The suicide rate was falling and then stopped falling.....

And now there has been in an increase in gun crime in Australia....they don't report that in the U.S. and gun ownership levels are now back to where they were before the confiscation......

Sorry, but I'd like to see a link backing your assertions that Australia's ban on assault type rifles and pump shotguns has failed. And why would that knowledge be surpassed in the USA if it had? Fox News would be all over it!

I just listed just the shootings that could have been mass shootings if the shooter just decided to shoot more people.....every one of them was stopped....by the mass shooter.....

Good Luck is not how you measure the success of gun control laws.....and that is all Australia has....good luck.....gun crime is going up there...I have posted the links to the news articles from Australia on this numerous times....

 

[2aguy]

this thread is about using fear to undermine our Constitutional rights.

something a liberal would never do, but leftist do on a regular basis.

The NRA thanks you for lining their pockets. Because that's literally all you're doing.

I support the free market.
I support freedom
I support the Constitution


Why don't you?

Do you think more laws will stop the violence?

look up how many laws and bans on arms there already are, then ask yourself that again.

if you still think it's yes, there's no hope for you

I'd like to intervene here: Here is a report on the Australian ban:

"Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms: faster falls in firearm deaths, firearm suicides, and a decade without mass shootings

Background: After a 1996 firearm massacre in Tasmania in which 35 people died, Australian governments united to remove semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns and rifles from civilian possession, as a key component of gun law reforms.

Objective: To determine whether Australia’s 1996 major gun law reforms were associated with changes in rates of mass firearm homicides, total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides, and whether there were any apparent method substitution effects for total homicides and suicides.

Design: Observational study using official statistics. Negative binomial regression analysis of changes in firearm death rates and comparison of trends in pre–post gun law reform firearm-related mass killings. Setting: Australia, 1979–2003.

Main outcome measures: Changes in trends of total firearm death rates, mass fatal shooting incidents, rates of firearm homicide, suicide and unintentional firearm deaths, and of total homicides and suicides per 100 000 population.

Results: In the 18 years before the gun law reforms, there were 13 mass shootings in Australia, and none in the 10.5 years afterwards. Declines in firearm-related deaths before the law reforms accelerated after the reforms for total firearm deaths (p = 0.04), firearm suicides (p = 0.007) and firearm homicides (p = 0.15), but not for the smallest category of unintentional firearm deaths, which increased. No evidence of substitution effect for suicides or homicides was observed. The rates per 100 000 of total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides all at least doubled their existing rates of decline after the revised gun laws. Conclusions: Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides. Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides."

http://jeffsachs.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Australia-Gun-Law-Reforms.pdf

they never had the right, we do.

Not that the fact it's a right means anything to leftist, but it's important to all of us that love and support America.

Stop patting yourself on the back. So-called "leftists" have fought in all of our wars and have been overrepresented in our voluntary armed forces. "Leftists" don't have to talk about their patriotism, they prove it with action by fighting for this country while a lot of RW sunshine patriots mouth the words but never serve. Sorry but "Leftists" have contributed or supported America just as much or more than many on the right..

There is no "right" to own an AR-15 type rifle. Our elected officials make that determination based on public opinion and sentiments aroused by multiple mass shootings. The NRA is the RW lobby organization but that voice is going to be less effective in legislative circles as the numbers of mass murders with AR-15 style rifles continue to rise.

Wrong.....this is the actual record of rifles with detachable magazines in this country over 34 years....

So....my source......Mother Jones....has a record of mass shootings from 1982....

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2016: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

Total deaths from "Assault" rifles since 1982......149.....over 34 years.....

And I will show you how many were murdered with knives, clubs and bare hands....

From the FBI homicide table 8, weapons used to commit murder...

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

2014....

Knives..... 1,567 in 2014 vs 149 for Assault rifles in 34 years including Sunday's....

Hands and feet....660 in 2014 vs. 149 for assault rifles in 34 years......

clubs.... 435 in 2014 vs. 149 for assault rifles for the last 34 years....

 

[2aguy]

I used the term "liberal' loosely. But anyone who has been on these boards for any length of time knows how UNIVERSAL it has become as a euphemism for anyone who doesn't wholly agree with RW conservative principles. But the op is not about that. It is about a method to put teeth into the ban on Assault type rifles or those rifles with the potential to be assault rifles with a little modification.

this thread is about using fear to undermine our Constitutional rights.

something a liberal would never do, but leftist do on a regular basis.

The NRA thanks you for lining their pockets. Because that's literally all you're doing.

I support the free market.
I support freedom
I support the Constitution


Why don't you?

Do you think more laws will stop the violence?

look up how many laws and bans on arms there already are, then ask yourself that again.

if you still think it's yes, there's no hope for you

I'd like to intervene here: Here is a report on the Australian ban:

"Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms: faster falls in firearm deaths, firearm suicides, and a decade without mass shootings

Background: After a 1996 firearm massacre in Tasmania in which 35 people died, Australian governments united to remove semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns and rifles from civilian possession, as a key component of gun law reforms.

Objective: To determine whether Australia’s 1996 major gun law reforms were associated with changes in rates of mass firearm homicides, total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides, and whether there were any apparent method substitution effects for total homicides and suicides.

Design: Observational study using official statistics. Negative binomial regression analysis of changes in firearm death rates and comparison of trends in pre–post gun law reform firearm-related mass killings. Setting: Australia, 1979–2003.

Main outcome measures: Changes in trends of total firearm death rates, mass fatal shooting incidents, rates of firearm homicide, suicide and unintentional firearm deaths, and of total homicides and suicides per 100 000 population.

Results: In the 18 years before the gun law reforms, there were 13 mass shootings in Australia, and none in the 10.5 years afterwards. Declines in firearm-related deaths before the law reforms accelerated after the reforms for total firearm deaths (p = 0.04), firearm suicides (p = 0.007) and firearm homicides (p = 0.15), but not for the smallest category of unintentional firearm deaths, which increased. No evidence of substitution effect for suicides or homicides was observed. The rates per 100 000 of total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides all at least doubled their existing rates of decline after the revised gun laws. Conclusions: Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides. Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides."

http://jeffsachs.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Australia-Gun-Law-Reforms.pdf

Australia is a big Island surrounded by water so getting weapons into the country is a little harder and easier to control than doing it here.

Also this country already had one assault weapon ban from 1994 to 2004 and mass shootings still occur within the U.S. borders and lone wolf terrorist attacks still happen but with bombs instead.

So you can not compare Australia to the U.S. because even though it can work on a Island does not mean it will work here in the States which is surrounded by two other countries and has a massive cartel problem that import illegal materials daily...

Actually, he can't even do that...they didn't have mass shootings before the confiscation...they had one big one and confiscated their guns........and they have had many shootings that would have been mass shootings but the guy with the gun, including muslim terrorists, didn't pull the trigger or he failed to kill enough people...check out my list and you will see, they had guns...they could have walked into schools, theater , malls, or public buildings...

And eventually that will happen...just like France..........

 

[2aguy]

this thread is about using fear to undermine our Constitutional rights.

something a liberal would never do, but leftist do on a regular basis.

The NRA thanks you for lining their pockets. Because that's literally all you're doing.

I support the free market.
I support freedom
I support the Constitution


Why don't you?

Do you think more laws will stop the violence?

look up how many laws and bans on arms there already are, then ask yourself that again.

if you still think it's yes, there's no hope for you

I'd like to intervene here: Here is a report on the Australian ban:

"Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms: faster falls in firearm deaths, firearm suicides, and a decade without mass shootings

Background: After a 1996 firearm massacre in Tasmania in which 35 people died, Australian governments united to remove semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns and rifles from civilian possession, as a key component of gun law reforms.

Objective: To determine whether Australia’s 1996 major gun law reforms were associated with changes in rates of mass firearm homicides, total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides, and whether there were any apparent method substitution effects for total homicides and suicides.

Design: Observational study using official statistics. Negative binomial regression analysis of changes in firearm death rates and comparison of trends in pre–post gun law reform firearm-related mass killings. Setting: Australia, 1979–2003.

Main outcome measures: Changes in trends of total firearm death rates, mass fatal shooting incidents, rates of firearm homicide, suicide and unintentional firearm deaths, and of total homicides and suicides per 100 000 population.

Results: In the 18 years before the gun law reforms, there were 13 mass shootings in Australia, and none in the 10.5 years afterwards. Declines in firearm-related deaths before the law reforms accelerated after the reforms for total firearm deaths (p = 0.04), firearm suicides (p = 0.007) and firearm homicides (p = 0.15), but not for the smallest category of unintentional firearm deaths, which increased. No evidence of substitution effect for suicides or homicides was observed. The rates per 100 000 of total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides all at least doubled their existing rates of decline after the revised gun laws. Conclusions: Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides. Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides."

http://jeffsachs.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Australia-Gun-Law-Reforms.pdf

Yeah...not true...the Australians had few mass shootings before the ban......in fact they have had 3 since the ban....they just pretend they didn't happen

The suicide rate was falling and then stopped falling.....

And now there has been in an increase in gun crime in Australia....they don't report that in the U.S. and gun ownership levels are now back to where they were before the confiscation......

Sorry, but I'd like to see a link backing your assertions that Australia's ban on assault type rifles and pump shotguns has failed. And why would that knowledge be surpassed in the USA if it had? Fox News would be all over it!

here you go....just the start...

3/29/16 Australian gun crime problem, reason article...

Australia’s Gun 'Buyback' Created a Violent Firearms Black Market. Why Should the U.S. Do the Same?

Just days ago, Australia's Peter Dutton, Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, and Michael Keenan, Minister for Justice, held a joint press conference to announce "We don't tolerate gun smuggling in Australia and we know Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs are engaged in it. We have been keen to send the strongest possible message from Canberra that we're not going to tolerate people smuggling in guns or smuggling in gun parts. You'd appreciate that even one smuggled gun can do an enormous amount of damage."

When politicians announce that they don't tolerate something, it's a fair bet that the something is completely out of hand.

"Police admit they cannot eradicate a black market that is peddling illegal guns to criminals," the Adelaide Advertiser concededa few years ago. "Motorcycle gang members and convicted criminals barred from buying guns in South Australia have no difficulty obtaining illegal firearms - including fully automatic weapons."

More recently, the country's The New Daily gained access to "previously unpublished data for firearms offences" and reporteda surge in crime "including a massive 83 per cent increase in firearms offences in NSW between 2005/06 and 2014/15, and an even bigger jump in Victoria over the same period."

"Australians may be more at risk from gun crime than ever before with the country's underground market for firearms ballooning in the past decade," the report added. "[T]he national ban on semi-automatic weapons following the Port Arthur massacre had spawned criminal demand for handguns."

Much as the Mafia and other organized criminal outfits rose to power, wealth, and prominence by supplying illegal liquor during Prohibition in the United States, outlaw motorcycle gangs in Australia appear to be building international connections and making money by supplying guns to willing buyers.

 

[2aguy]

this thread is about using fear to undermine our Constitutional rights.

something a liberal would never do, but leftist do on a regular basis.

The NRA thanks you for lining their pockets. Because that's literally all you're doing.

I support the free market.
I support freedom
I support the Constitution


Why don't you?

Do you think more laws will stop the violence?

look up how many laws and bans on arms there already are, then ask yourself that again.

if you still think it's yes, there's no hope for you

I'd like to intervene here: Here is a report on the Australian ban:

"Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms: faster falls in firearm deaths, firearm suicides, and a decade without mass shootings

Background: After a 1996 firearm massacre in Tasmania in which 35 people died, Australian governments united to remove semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns and rifles from civilian possession, as a key component of gun law reforms.

Objective: To determine whether Australia’s 1996 major gun law reforms were associated with changes in rates of mass firearm homicides, total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides, and whether there were any apparent method substitution effects for total homicides and suicides.

Design: Observational study using official statistics. Negative binomial regression analysis of changes in firearm death rates and comparison of trends in pre–post gun law reform firearm-related mass killings. Setting: Australia, 1979–2003.

Main outcome measures: Changes in trends of total firearm death rates, mass fatal shooting incidents, rates of firearm homicide, suicide and unintentional firearm deaths, and of total homicides and suicides per 100 000 population.

Results: In the 18 years before the gun law reforms, there were 13 mass shootings in Australia, and none in the 10.5 years afterwards. Declines in firearm-related deaths before the law reforms accelerated after the reforms for total firearm deaths (p = 0.04), firearm suicides (p = 0.007) and firearm homicides (p = 0.15), but not for the smallest category of unintentional firearm deaths, which increased. No evidence of substitution effect for suicides or homicides was observed. The rates per 100 000 of total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides all at least doubled their existing rates of decline after the revised gun laws. Conclusions: Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides. Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides."

http://jeffsachs.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Australia-Gun-Law-Reforms.pdf

Yeah...not true...the Australians had few mass shootings before the ban......in fact they have had 3 since the ban....they just pretend they didn't happen

The suicide rate was falling and then stopped falling.....

And now there has been in an increase in gun crime in Australia....they don't report that in the U.S. and gun ownership levels are now back to where they were before the confiscation......

Sorry, but I'd like to see a link backing your assertions that Australia's ban on assault type rifles and pump shotguns has failed. And why would that knowledge be surpassed in the USA if it had? Fox News would be all over it!

And here....

3/17/16


Eight shootings in one week

THIS could be the worst month for gun violence in Victoria since 2014, with eight shootings in the first 10 days of March including one man being killed.

The spate of shootings across the state has led to a specific taskforce from Victoria Police to focus on the increase of incidents.

The worst month for gun violence since 2014 was October last year, when there were 12 shootings, including one fatality.

Fairfax Media reports March is on track to beat the number of shootings last October, making it the worst month for shootings since at least 2014.

The latest shooting was last night, when the driver of a black Audi fired at another car with a handgun.

Victoria Police say a Mazda was stopped at a Sunshine West intersection when the Audi pulled up beside it.

The two men in the Audi then drew their guns and the driver fired into the rear passenger side of the Mazda


---------------------------

Scary trend in Australian gun crime

MONDAY’S siege in Sydney that saw three people shot and three held hostage before the gunman turned the firearm on himself was a terrifying reminder of the Lindt cafe crisis just over a year ago.

It comes as another man was shot dead in Victoria at close range last night, three days after a man was killed in a suspected shooting at a Melbourne motel and four days after a man was shot dead at a property in Ipswich, Queensland, with police called just after 2am.

Last month, a man accused of a shooting in Canberra allegedly boasted to police that the victim would be dead if he had pulled the trigger, because he had significant experience with firearms, despite not having a licence.

There were 207 firearms deaths in Australia in 2013, a rate of 0.93 per 100,000 people, higher than in 19 other countries, including the UK, Bolivia and Zimbabwe.

While we often shake our heads in horror at America’s problems with gun crime, it’s clear we are far from immune from the deadly influence of firearms.

-----------

In New South Wales, weapons offences have risen 8.7 per cent per year over the past five years, to 11,471 in the year to September 2015. The New Daily reported in November that incidents involving firearms rose 83 per cent in NSW from 2005-6 to 2014-5. Charges for possession and trafficking of guns in South Australia saw a 49 per cent rise over four years.



Victoria is similarly affected, with a 52 per cent increase in firearms offences to 3645 between 2009-10 and 2014-15. In Tasmania, there was a 26 per cent increase in firearm-related offences between December 2012 and 2015.

Victoria police chief Steve Fontana this week expressed fears about the rapid increase in shootings in the past eight months. The state’s Crime Statistics Agency Chief Statistician Fiona Dowsley said in December: “Weapons and explosives offences and drug use and possession offences have again seen statistically significant increases this quarter.”

 

[2aguy]

this thread is about using fear to undermine our Constitutional rights.

something a liberal would never do, but leftist do on a regular basis.

The NRA thanks you for lining their pockets. Because that's literally all you're doing.

I support the free market.
I support freedom
I support the Constitution


Why don't you?

Do you think more laws will stop the violence?

look up how many laws and bans on arms there already are, then ask yourself that again.

if you still think it's yes, there's no hope for you

I'd like to intervene here: Here is a report on the Australian ban:

"Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms: faster falls in firearm deaths, firearm suicides, and a decade without mass shootings

Background: After a 1996 firearm massacre in Tasmania in which 35 people died, Australian governments united to remove semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns and rifles from civilian possession, as a key component of gun law reforms.

Objective: To determine whether Australia’s 1996 major gun law reforms were associated with changes in rates of mass firearm homicides, total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides, and whether there were any apparent method substitution effects for total homicides and suicides.

Design: Observational study using official statistics. Negative binomial regression analysis of changes in firearm death rates and comparison of trends in pre–post gun law reform firearm-related mass killings. Setting: Australia, 1979–2003.

Main outcome measures: Changes in trends of total firearm death rates, mass fatal shooting incidents, rates of firearm homicide, suicide and unintentional firearm deaths, and of total homicides and suicides per 100 000 population.

Results: In the 18 years before the gun law reforms, there were 13 mass shootings in Australia, and none in the 10.5 years afterwards. Declines in firearm-related deaths before the law reforms accelerated after the reforms for total firearm deaths (p = 0.04), firearm suicides (p = 0.007) and firearm homicides (p = 0.15), but not for the smallest category of unintentional firearm deaths, which increased. No evidence of substitution effect for suicides or homicides was observed. The rates per 100 000 of total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides all at least doubled their existing rates of decline after the revised gun laws. Conclusions: Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides. Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides."

http://jeffsachs.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Australia-Gun-Law-Reforms.pdf

Yeah...not true...the Australians had few mass shootings before the ban......in fact they have had 3 since the ban....they just pretend they didn't happen

The suicide rate was falling and then stopped falling.....

And now there has been in an increase in gun crime in Australia....they don't report that in the U.S. and gun ownership levels are now back to where they were before the confiscation......

Sorry, but I'd like to see a link backing your assertions that Australia's ban on assault type rifles and pump shotguns has failed. And why would that knowledge be surpassed in the USA if it had? Fox News would be all over it!

And here....

Fists give way to firearms

The 25-year-old turns his anger on the intervening neighbour and the confrontation quickly escalates to the point where Khaled pulls out a small, loaded Glock pistol.

Without hesitation he cocks his gun, points it in the direction of his neighbour's unit and fires a single shot. The bullet hits just underneath the terrified neighbour's window.

Khaled then gets in his girlfriend's car and they speed off but only get as far as the M5 motorway before they are stopped by police and arrested.

There are extra patrols out in Sydney's west this January night after a spate of nine shootings in just eight days.
The couple are among the first arrested and charged by Operation Spartan, a taskforce launched by police in January 2012 to curb the gun violence erupting across the city.

Over the next 12 months, police make another 114 arrests and laid 1114 charges. But the shootings have not stopped.

There has been more than one public shooting every three days in Sydney in that year and the target is increasingly becoming human life. Among the 135 recorded incidents in the past 12 months, eight men have been shot dead and dozens more injured.

Khaled was recently convicted and sentenced to four years in prison for his hot-headed outburst yet he is part of a growing trend that is alarming police and community leaders in Sydney's west, who have seen bouts of gun violence come and go.

They say young men are now arming themselves with illegal guns to fight the most petty of disputes, driving a spike in public shootings proving difficult to keep under control.

''It appears to have become more acceptable to use a gun to settle a difference rather than, say, physical force or a punch. There is definitely an idiot factor in many of these shootings, but just as with shootings involving organised crime, a person is targeted for whatever reason.''


---------

There were further spikes in 2002 and November 2008.

''Every time it looks like the problem has been knocked on the head, or going down, it comes back up again,'' Weatherburn says. ''That's the pattern. Now we are smack bang in the middle of another rise.''

But this time it is different. Previous shooting spates were attributed to disputes and turf wars between crime families or bikie gangs bent on settling long-running scores.

Now, young men with no affiliations to either are arming themselves with illegal guns to settle feuds as insignificant as a misguided compliment or a fight at a party.

The shootings have become more indiscriminate, making the task more difficult for police trying to crack down on the violence.
------

 

[2aguy]

this thread is about using fear to undermine our Constitutional rights.

something a liberal would never do, but leftist do on a regular basis.

The NRA thanks you for lining their pockets. Because that's literally all you're doing.

I support the free market.
I support freedom
I support the Constitution


Why don't you?

Do you think more laws will stop the violence?

look up how many laws and bans on arms there already are, then ask yourself that again.

if you still think it's yes, there's no hope for you

I'd like to intervene here: Here is a report on the Australian ban:

"Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms: faster falls in firearm deaths, firearm suicides, and a decade without mass shootings

Background: After a 1996 firearm massacre in Tasmania in which 35 people died, Australian governments united to remove semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns and rifles from civilian possession, as a key component of gun law reforms.

Objective: To determine whether Australia’s 1996 major gun law reforms were associated with changes in rates of mass firearm homicides, total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides, and whether there were any apparent method substitution effects for total homicides and suicides.

Design: Observational study using official statistics. Negative binomial regression analysis of changes in firearm death rates and comparison of trends in pre–post gun law reform firearm-related mass killings. Setting: Australia, 1979–2003.

Main outcome measures: Changes in trends of total firearm death rates, mass fatal shooting incidents, rates of firearm homicide, suicide and unintentional firearm deaths, and of total homicides and suicides per 100 000 population.

Results: In the 18 years before the gun law reforms, there were 13 mass shootings in Australia, and none in the 10.5 years afterwards. Declines in firearm-related deaths before the law reforms accelerated after the reforms for total firearm deaths (p = 0.04), firearm suicides (p = 0.007) and firearm homicides (p = 0.15), but not for the smallest category of unintentional firearm deaths, which increased. No evidence of substitution effect for suicides or homicides was observed. The rates per 100 000 of total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides all at least doubled their existing rates of decline after the revised gun laws. Conclusions: Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides. Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides."

http://jeffsachs.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Australia-Gun-Law-Reforms.pdf

Yeah...not true...the Australians had few mass shootings before the ban......in fact they have had 3 since the ban....they just pretend they didn't happen

The suicide rate was falling and then stopped falling.....

And now there has been in an increase in gun crime in Australia....they don't report that in the U.S. and gun ownership levels are now back to where they were before the confiscation......

Sorry, but I'd like to see a link backing your assertions that Australia's ban on assault type rifles and pump shotguns has failed. And why would that knowledge be surpassed in the USA if it had? Fox News would be all over it!

And here we go...Melbourne is awash in guns.......


http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/government-toughens-gun-laws-in-response-to-shootings-and-gangs-arms-race-20151027-gkk18x.html

Melbourne is awash with guns, with senior police warning of an arms race "getting out of control" in Melbourne's north west.



A former firearms dealer told Fairfax Media that high-calibre semi-automatic handguns like the Glock and Sig Sauer were easily available to criminals via an extensive underground weapons importation and trafficking network.



"There hasn't been this much weaponry on the streets since the days of the underworld war," the source said. "It's now endemic and it's a real worry."



-----



The trade is largely controlled by outlaw motorcycle gangs, with an increasing number of guns originating from South East Asia, particularly the Philippines, the source said.



Senior police say young criminals are increasingly carrying guns because their rivals are armed.



"This is really getting out of control. A lot of these kids don't seem to grasp what they're doing. Drive-by shootings used to be a big deal, now it's a daily event around here," said a senior police source from city's north-west police region, dubbed the "red zone" by officers because of its soaring crime rate.



------



"While I'm reticent to buy into the terminology 'gangster culture', it is obvious that carrying firearms is more often a part of the criminal culture we are observing," he said.

 

[2aguy]

this thread is about using fear to undermine our Constitutional rights.

something a liberal would never do, but leftist do on a regular basis.

The NRA thanks you for lining their pockets. Because that's literally all you're doing.

I support the free market.
I support freedom
I support the Constitution


Why don't you?

Do you think more laws will stop the violence?

look up how many laws and bans on arms there already are, then ask yourself that again.

if you still think it's yes, there's no hope for you

I'd like to intervene here: Here is a report on the Australian ban:

"Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms: faster falls in firearm deaths, firearm suicides, and a decade without mass shootings

Background: After a 1996 firearm massacre in Tasmania in which 35 people died, Australian governments united to remove semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns and rifles from civilian possession, as a key component of gun law reforms.

Objective: To determine whether Australia’s 1996 major gun law reforms were associated with changes in rates of mass firearm homicides, total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides, and whether there were any apparent method substitution effects for total homicides and suicides.

Design: Observational study using official statistics. Negative binomial regression analysis of changes in firearm death rates and comparison of trends in pre–post gun law reform firearm-related mass killings. Setting: Australia, 1979–2003.

Main outcome measures: Changes in trends of total firearm death rates, mass fatal shooting incidents, rates of firearm homicide, suicide and unintentional firearm deaths, and of total homicides and suicides per 100 000 population.

Results: In the 18 years before the gun law reforms, there were 13 mass shootings in Australia, and none in the 10.5 years afterwards. Declines in firearm-related deaths before the law reforms accelerated after the reforms for total firearm deaths (p = 0.04), firearm suicides (p = 0.007) and firearm homicides (p = 0.15), but not for the smallest category of unintentional firearm deaths, which increased. No evidence of substitution effect for suicides or homicides was observed. The rates per 100 000 of total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides all at least doubled their existing rates of decline after the revised gun laws. Conclusions: Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides. Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides."

http://jeffsachs.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Australia-Gun-Law-Reforms.pdf

Yeah...not true...the Australians had few mass shootings before the ban......in fact they have had 3 since the ban....they just pretend they didn't happen

The suicide rate was falling and then stopped falling.....

And now there has been in an increase in gun crime in Australia....they don't report that in the U.S. and gun ownership levels are now back to where they were before the confiscation......

Sorry, but I'd like to see a link backing your assertions that Australia's ban on assault type rifles and pump shotguns has failed. And why would that knowledge be surpassed in the USA if it had? Fox News would be all over it!

and here....


Gun found every two days in Melbourne s red zone

Police are discovering guns in cars every two days in Melbourne's north-west, which has been dubbed the "red zone" by officers concerned about a growing gangster culture in the region.

The alarming figure, obtained from The Police Association, follows anecdotal and statistical evidence of a burgeoning gun culture among young men in the city's north-western fringe.

Police working in the large region, which includes Broadmeadows, Sunshine and Werribee, have reported:
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• Firearm-related incidents, such as drive-by shootings, every six days.
• An increasing trend of children as young as 16 carrying guns.
• Regularly finding guns in cars, including sawn-off shotguns and an automatic machine gun, during routine car intercepts.
• Guns stolen from rural homes being used in violent crime in the north-west. Some 530 guns were stolen in rural Victoria in 2013.

It comes as the Crime Statistics Agency released figures on Thursday showing an almost threefold jump in firearm offences in the north-west over the past five years, from 581 in the year to March 2011 to 1332 in the 12 months to April 2015.



The figures follow recent high-profile shootings in which two men have been killed - one in Keysborough, the other in Altona Meadows - and significant gun seizures by police.

In March, an automatic machine gun was found during a car intercept in Sunbury, and in February, an M16 assault rifle and Thureon machine gun were seized in raids on homes in the city's west.