Charles_Main
AR15 Owner
Do any of you Dems realize who it was who set aside 2000 acres of Anwar for future exploration for oil and gas?
Jimmy Carter!
Jimmy Carter!
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Do any Dems know?
- Thread starter Charles_Main
- Start date
Do any of you Dems realize who it was who set aside 2000 acres of Anwar for future exploration for oil and gas?
Jimmy Carter!
Carter was unlucky because the North Shore oil started flowing right after Reagan got into office. I say develop alternative energy AND drill everywhere we can.
Charles_Main
AR15 Owner
- Thread starter
- #3
Carter was unlucky because the North Shore oil started flowing right after Reagan got into office. I say develop alternative energy AND drill everywhere we can.
I agree, the solutions to our problems are not one or the other. We must do it all, develop alternative energy, Drill for oil here, Build refineries, Build Nuke Plants. When you have a problem you do EVERYTHING that will help. You do not sit around and argue about doing one thing or the other.
Tech_Esq
Sic Semper Tyrannis!
The problem is the disingenuousness surrounding the discussion of energy. We ought to be honest about what is going on here. The left does not want the price of oil to be low. If it is, the impetus to use/develop more expensive alternatives would decline (just as it did in the 1980s and 1990s). The left in Congress have spent the last 25 years careful turning the screws so oil would someday cost so much that we would have to go to alternatives. That day is finally here and they don't want to do anything to screw it up.
On the right, I think there is a genuine desire to use alternatives just so they can give the finger to the middle-east. So, it's more about energy independence than about "green" alternatives. If oil dropped to $25 a barrel, you'd be hard pressed to find a right winger screwing a solar panel to his rooftop.
But, the true goal has to be energy independence. The biggest piece of that is transportation, but none of the pieces should be ignored. This is a grand business opportunity to be the technological leader and we shouldn't miss it. If we do it right, we could be the Saudi Arabia of the next 100 years.
On the right, I think there is a genuine desire to use alternatives just so they can give the finger to the middle-east. So, it's more about energy independence than about "green" alternatives. If oil dropped to $25 a barrel, you'd be hard pressed to find a right winger screwing a solar panel to his rooftop.
But, the true goal has to be energy independence. The biggest piece of that is transportation, but none of the pieces should be ignored. This is a grand business opportunity to be the technological leader and we shouldn't miss it. If we do it right, we could be the Saudi Arabia of the next 100 years.
Charles_Main
AR15 Owner
- Thread starter
- #5
The problem is the disingenuousness surrounding the discussion of energy. We ought to be honest about what is going on here. The left does not want the price of oil to be low. If it is, the impetus to use/develop more expensive alternatives would decline (just as it did in the 1980s and 1990s). The left in Congress have spent the last 25 years careful turning the screws so oil would someday cost so much that we would have to go to alternatives. That day is finally here and they don't want to do anything to screw it up.
On the right, I think there is a genuine desire to use alternatives just so they can give the finger to the middle-east. So, it's more about energy independence than about "green" alternatives. If oil dropped to $25 a barrel, you'd be hard pressed to find a right winger screwing a solar panel to his rooftop.
But, the true goal has to be energy independence. The biggest piece of that is transportation, but none of the pieces should be ignored. This is a grand business opportunity to be the technological leader and we shouldn't miss it. If we do it right, we could be the Saudi Arabia of the next 100 years.
Very well said. Energy independence should be the goal. We should Do everything in a power to achieve this. Drill, alternatives, Nuclear, ETC ETC. not just one or the other but ALL.
I would love be able to tell the Middle east oil nations we no longer need their oil. I just do not want to see it come at the cost of our economy.
jreeves
Senior Member
- Feb 12, 2008
- 6,588
- 319
- 48
Carter was unlucky because the North Shore oil started flowing right after Reagan got into office. I say develop alternative energy AND drill everywhere we can.
Agreed, the drilling will delay the inevitable which is our need to end oil dependency. Which will allow time to perfect alternative energy sources.
manu1959
Left Coast Isolationist
anyone know what converting all our power plants to nuke or coal would do to our oil consumption......
jreeves
Senior Member
- Feb 12, 2008
- 6,588
- 319
- 48
anyone know what converting all our power plants to nuke or coal would do to our oil consumption......
Do you have the numbers?
Charles_Main
AR15 Owner
- Thread starter
- #10
80% of our electricity is made from Coal and gas. So it stands to reason converting to Nuclear would save a shit load of Oil.
Tech_Esq
Sic Semper Tyrannis!
anyone know what converting all our power plants to nuke or coal would do to our oil consumption......
The major portion of our oil consumption comes from transportation not electrical infrastructure. But, it is a piece of the puzzle. One additional aspect people may not be considering is that if we switch our transportation from oil based infrastructure to electrical infrastructure, we will need a whole lot more electricity than the power companies have planned for.
From what I see, electrical (battery or ultra capacitor) is the most likely form of replacement for the ICE. There seems to be too many issues with hydrogen, as nice as that might be. Even then, hydrogen would power an electric engine.
The point is that each piece of the energy puzzle is important and in the case of power generation plants, we can rest assured we will not need fewer of them, we'll only need more.
Tech_Esq
Sic Semper Tyrannis!
80% of our electricity is made from Coal and gas. So it stands to reason converting to Nuclear would save a shit load of Oil.
Just a few facts as we go along. Source CIA World Fact Book.
Electricity - production by source:
fossil fuel: 71.4%
hydro: 5.6%
nuclear: 20.7%
other: 2.3% (2001)
Oil - production:
8.322 million bbl/day (2005 est.)
Oil - consumption:
20.8 million bbl/day (2005 est.)
Of that, we Export 1 million bbl/day and Import 13 bbl/day.
We are also a net electricity importer.
Do any of you Dems realize who it was who set aside 2000 acres of Anwar for future exploration for oil and gas?
Jimmy Carter!
Who's trying to tap it now stupid? Jimmy Carter isn't running.
Jeepers
Senior Member
Why the rush to tap anwar... congress should force oil companies to DRILL ON ALL CURRENTLY HELD LEASES...
U.S. oil consumption was high in the early 1970’s, while U.S. oil production declined
In 1973, 36% of energy consumption was in foreign oil, while in 1970 it had been 22%
The Nixon administration was in office, the Watergate scandal was at its height in 1973, providing limited strength in policy formulation, and little potential for an effective response to the oil embargo
Arab-Israeli conflicts had already produced a growing tension between U.S. and Arab countries
The OPEC (Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries) cartel led to rising gas prices in early 1970's
We don't have an supply problem. The American Oil companies are sitting on oil fields. They just want to OWN ANWAR and Offshore.
Maybe they should build some new refineries. Maybe they shouldn't have killed the electric car.
The 1979 (or second) oil crisis in the United States occurred in the wake of the Iranian Revolution. Amid massive protests, the Shah of Iran, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, fled his country in early 1979, allowing Ayatollah Khomeini to gain control. The protests shattered the Iranian oil sector. While the new regime resumed oil exports, it was inconsistent and at a lower volume, forcing prices to go up. Saudi Arabia and other OPEC nations, under the presidency of Dr. Mana Alotaiba increased production to offset the decline, and the overall loss in production was about 4 percent. [2] However, a widespread panic resulted, driving the price far higher than would be expected under normal circumstances.
In 1980, following the Iraqi invasion of Iran, oil production in Iran nearly stopped, and Iraq's oil production was severely cut as well.
After 1980, oil prices began a six-year decline that culminated with a 46 percent price drop in 1986. This was due to reduced demand and over-production, and caused OPEC to lose its unity. Oil exporters such as Mexico, Nigeria, and Venezuela expanded. The US and Europe got more oil from Prudhoe Bay and the North Sea.
The Carter Administration began a phased decontrol of oil prices on 5 April when the average price of crude oil was US$15.85. Over the next 12 months the price of crude oil rose to $39.50 (its all time highest real price until May 7th, 2008[6]). During this period domestic U.S. oil output rose sharply from the large Prudhoe Bay fields while oil imports fell sharply. However, since there were no price controls on imported oil, this had no impact on boosting the supply of gasoline in 1979. Hence, long lines appeared at gas stations, as they had six years earlier during the 1973 oil crisis.
As the average vehicle of the time consumed between 2-3 liters (about 0.5-0.8 gallons) of gasoline (petrol) an hour while idling, it was estimated that Americans wasted up to 150,000 barrels (24,000 m³) of oil per day idling their engines in the lines at gas stations.[7]
Gas coupon printed but not issued during the 1979 energy crisisDuring the period, many people believed the oil companies artificially created oil shortages to drive up prices, rather than simply high prices caused by natural factors beyond any human influence or control. Many politicians proposed gas rationing, such as the Governor of Maryland, Harry Hughes, who proposed odd-even rationing (only people with an odd-numbered license plate could purchase gas on an odd-numbered day), as was used during the 1973 crisis. Several states actually implemented odd-even gas rationing, including Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Texas. Coupons for gasoline rationing were printed but were never actually used during the 1979 crisis. [8]
President Jimmy Carter made symbolic efforts to encourage energy conservation, such as urging citizens in a famous July 15, 1979, 'malaise' speech to turn down their thermostats. He also installed solar power panels on the roof of the White House and a wood-burning stove in the living quarters. However, the panels were removed in August 1986 during the administration of his successor, Ronald Reagan, after a leak and were never replaced.
Carter's fire-side speech argued the oil crisis was "the moral equivalent of war". More importantly, Carter, as part of his administration's efforts at deregulation, proposed removing price controls that had been imposed in the administration of Richard Nixon during the 1973 crisis. Congress agreed to remove price controls in phases; they were finally dismantled in 1981 under Reagan. [9]
In 1980, the U.S. Government established the Synthetic Fuels Corporation to produce an alternative to imported fossil fuels.
[edit] Oil Patch
When West Texas intermediate crude oil increased 250 percent between 1978 and 1980, the oil-producing areas of Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Colorado, Wyoming, and Alaska began experiencing an economic boom and population inflows.[10]
In 1973, 36% of energy consumption was in foreign oil, while in 1970 it had been 22%
The Nixon administration was in office, the Watergate scandal was at its height in 1973, providing limited strength in policy formulation, and little potential for an effective response to the oil embargo
Arab-Israeli conflicts had already produced a growing tension between U.S. and Arab countries
The OPEC (Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries) cartel led to rising gas prices in early 1970's
We don't have an supply problem. The American Oil companies are sitting on oil fields. They just want to OWN ANWAR and Offshore.
Maybe they should build some new refineries. Maybe they shouldn't have killed the electric car.
The 1979 (or second) oil crisis in the United States occurred in the wake of the Iranian Revolution. Amid massive protests, the Shah of Iran, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, fled his country in early 1979, allowing Ayatollah Khomeini to gain control. The protests shattered the Iranian oil sector. While the new regime resumed oil exports, it was inconsistent and at a lower volume, forcing prices to go up. Saudi Arabia and other OPEC nations, under the presidency of Dr. Mana Alotaiba increased production to offset the decline, and the overall loss in production was about 4 percent. [2] However, a widespread panic resulted, driving the price far higher than would be expected under normal circumstances.
In 1980, following the Iraqi invasion of Iran, oil production in Iran nearly stopped, and Iraq's oil production was severely cut as well.
After 1980, oil prices began a six-year decline that culminated with a 46 percent price drop in 1986. This was due to reduced demand and over-production, and caused OPEC to lose its unity. Oil exporters such as Mexico, Nigeria, and Venezuela expanded. The US and Europe got more oil from Prudhoe Bay and the North Sea.
The Carter Administration began a phased decontrol of oil prices on 5 April when the average price of crude oil was US$15.85. Over the next 12 months the price of crude oil rose to $39.50 (its all time highest real price until May 7th, 2008[6]). During this period domestic U.S. oil output rose sharply from the large Prudhoe Bay fields while oil imports fell sharply. However, since there were no price controls on imported oil, this had no impact on boosting the supply of gasoline in 1979. Hence, long lines appeared at gas stations, as they had six years earlier during the 1973 oil crisis.
As the average vehicle of the time consumed between 2-3 liters (about 0.5-0.8 gallons) of gasoline (petrol) an hour while idling, it was estimated that Americans wasted up to 150,000 barrels (24,000 m³) of oil per day idling their engines in the lines at gas stations.[7]
Gas coupon printed but not issued during the 1979 energy crisisDuring the period, many people believed the oil companies artificially created oil shortages to drive up prices, rather than simply high prices caused by natural factors beyond any human influence or control. Many politicians proposed gas rationing, such as the Governor of Maryland, Harry Hughes, who proposed odd-even rationing (only people with an odd-numbered license plate could purchase gas on an odd-numbered day), as was used during the 1973 crisis. Several states actually implemented odd-even gas rationing, including Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Texas. Coupons for gasoline rationing were printed but were never actually used during the 1979 crisis. [8]
President Jimmy Carter made symbolic efforts to encourage energy conservation, such as urging citizens in a famous July 15, 1979, 'malaise' speech to turn down their thermostats. He also installed solar power panels on the roof of the White House and a wood-burning stove in the living quarters. However, the panels were removed in August 1986 during the administration of his successor, Ronald Reagan, after a leak and were never replaced.
Carter's fire-side speech argued the oil crisis was "the moral equivalent of war". More importantly, Carter, as part of his administration's efforts at deregulation, proposed removing price controls that had been imposed in the administration of Richard Nixon during the 1973 crisis. Congress agreed to remove price controls in phases; they were finally dismantled in 1981 under Reagan. [9]
In 1980, the U.S. Government established the Synthetic Fuels Corporation to produce an alternative to imported fossil fuels.
[edit] Oil Patch
When West Texas intermediate crude oil increased 250 percent between 1978 and 1980, the oil-producing areas of Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Colorado, Wyoming, and Alaska began experiencing an economic boom and population inflows.[10]
Why the rush to tap anwar... congress should force oil companies to DRILL ON ALL CURRENTLY HELD LEASES...
exactly.
Charles_Main
AR15 Owner
- Thread starter
- #17
Why the rush to tap anwar... congress should force oil companies to DRILL ON ALL CURRENTLY HELD LEASES...
Yes force them to drill on non cost effective fields instead of giving them access to the easy stuff.
Well you are fully propagandatized by the left. way to go lemming boy.
Tech_Esq
Sic Semper Tyrannis!
Why the rush to tap anwar... congress should force oil companies to DRILL ON ALL CURRENTLY HELD LEASES...
They should drill where the most oil is. Don't you think it would be best to get the most energy for every hole drilled? Now, I don't know whether that's in ANWR or on a currently held lease.
I will say one thing though, I'm a little tired of this "the oil companies should drill on leases they already hold" argument. So let's explore it a little bit and shine some light in there. There seems to be an implicit argument that somehow the oil companies don't want to make money. If they can sell oil at a price that is twice as high as a year ago, please explain to my stupid ass why they wouldn't be doing that? Why would they not want to be selling as much oil at that price as they could?
I'll give you a hint, the answer is not "cuz they want to drill in ANWR." They've been trying to drill in ANWR for over 25 years. If they didn't drill leases just because of that, there would have been no oil drilling for 25 years.
Anybody ever ask how many suits have been filed by environmental organizations against the oil companies trying to exercise those leases? Hmmmm?
Jeepers
Senior Member
Read an interview last week where this cat was talking about oil companies fearing that a democratic whitehouse would be less likely to dole out oil leases. He said that oil companies were trying to get as many leases as possible out of the bush administration.... I wonder what would have to happen to the price of oil to force the hand of public opinion enough to motivate Floridians to want to drill off of their coast...
The rest of you igorant right fucks have already bought this supply shortage theory hook line and sinker....enough so that you will post every other day some nonsense about more drilling and less regulation...
The rest of you igorant right fucks have already bought this supply shortage theory hook line and sinker....enough so that you will post every other day some nonsense about more drilling and less regulation...
Read an interview last week where this cat was talking about oil companies fearing that a democratic whitehouse would be less likely to dole out oil leases. He said that oil companies were trying to get as many leases as possible out of the bush administration.... I wonder what would have to happen to the price of oil to force the hand of public opinion enough to motivate Floridians to want to drill off of their coast...
The rest of you igorant right fucks have already bought this supply shortage theory hook line and sinker....enough so that you will post every other day some nonsense about more drilling and less regulation...
T Boone Pickens, an oil man, is going to release his plan for alternative energy windmills very soon.
I love it that he is going to beat the other billionaires to the punch on doing this. I just hope they don't kill him first. Sure he might have capitalist reasons, but at least he isn't dragging his feet until oil is all gone.
I remember hearing an old Native American story about the mountain being alive and it cried when miners tapped it for it's treasures. They didn't have scientists back then and even they knew it was wrong. 500 years later and the GOP is dumber than these men who never went to school a day in their life.
Or are they not dumb, just greedy?
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