Discussion: is Fascism a left or right wing government type?

[francoHFW]

Now, I've always been pretty sure that Fascism was a right wing government type. Hitler hated the Jews in large part because they were Marxist, no? It directly opposes liberalism in the way it seeks to run government. Some people on the right seem to think that the authoritarian element that gives the government a lot of power under Fascism automatically makes it a leftist ideology. Is that how it works? Big government automatically means it belongs to the left? Or is it possible that not all right wing ideology calls for tiny government?

ALL collectivist government systems are left wing. Communist, fascist, socialist, they are all the same house, just a different color. Right wing is NO government. So simple a child could understand it.

You wish. Name a leader who's been RW then. Anarchy is no government. Communism and fascism are dictatorships, fascism capitalist and RW.

 

[francoHFW]

State fascism uses political dogma as a means of control, what that dogma happens to be is unimportant. It's all about having a kind of brutal law and order to make the masses be productive and compliant in spite of there being no means of social and economic mobility or voice in government. Authoritarianism knows no political bounds, all it takes is a populace that can be scared into submission. It's no accident that the Nazis were often called gangsters because Fascism resembles an organized crime operation more than anything else.

And that doesn't sound like the democrats at all.

Whatever, the entirely non-partisan point I was trying to make is that fascism is not right or left but a thing of the brutal leading the fearful. How much fear is in your politics? How brutal do you want the police to be in preserving order? How confident are you in the masses to determine what is right for them? These questions define a person as a fascist or not far more than simple political affiliation.

So can anyone speak at a college without violence or the admin shutting them down? Can a president be elected without people burning businesses? Can you disagree with the left and not be racist?

Take your soft nonpartisan bullshit and shove it up your ass. You ******* people brought us to this point.

Drop the shit for two minutes and have an actual conversation on the subject, is that so difficult? Everyone flings the F word all around so much until it has become meaningless or somehow synonymous with anarchy which is actually the polar opposite of fascism. Nothing you used as an example is fascism. The first is the weird politics of educational institutions that very often defy logic because they are run by committee, the second is anarchy and the third is the first amendment which protects your right to say anything you want but does not protect you from anyone else's freedom of speech if they think you are being an asshole.

Drop the shit while you open your asshole wide? Here's a word, **** off.

What people or ideas are allowed to speak at a college? Let's start there and see if you can handle the reality of college in 2017.

About 3 in the last years and the dupes think it happens all the time...Feq Milo and Anne anyway lol...Antifa is crap, not Dem arrest them. Breaking: No injuries, a couple little fires on sidewalks, broken windows 6 months ago in Berkeley. Get a grip!

 

[westwall]

Now, I've always been pretty sure that Fascism was a right wing government type. Hitler hated the Jews in large part because they were Marxist, no? It directly opposes liberalism in the way it seeks to run government. Some people on the right seem to think that the authoritarian element that gives the government a lot of power under Fascism automatically makes it a leftist ideology. Is that how it works? Big government automatically means it belongs to the left? Or is it possible that not all right wing ideology calls for tiny government?

ALL collectivist government systems are left wing. Communist, fascist, socialist, they are all the same house, just a different color. Right wing is NO government. So simple a child could understand it.

You wish. Name a leader who's been RW then. Anarchy is no government. Communism and fascism are dictatorships, fascism capitalist and RW.

Exactly. Anarchy is no government, in other words it is the ultimate form of INDIVIDUALIST type government. ALL other types of government are COLLECTIVIST in nature. The only question is to what degree.

Thanks for making it so plain.

 

[francoHFW]

Now, I've always been pretty sure that Fascism was a right wing government type. Hitler hated the Jews in large part because they were Marxist, no? It directly opposes liberalism in the way it seeks to run government. Some people on the right seem to think that the authoritarian element that gives the government a lot of power under Fascism automatically makes it a leftist ideology. Is that how it works? Big government automatically means it belongs to the left? Or is it possible that not all right wing ideology calls for tiny government?

ALL collectivist government systems are left wing. Communist, fascist, socialist, they are all the same house, just a different color. Right wing is NO government. So simple a child could understand it.

You wish. Name a leader who's been RW then. Anarchy is no government. Communism and fascism are dictatorships, fascism capitalist and RW.

Exactly. Anarchy is no government, in other words it is the ultimate form of INDIVIDUALIST type government. ALL other types of government are COLLECTIVIST in nature. The only question is to what degree.

Thanks for making it so plain.

So you're an anarchist? Doesn't work with humans...

 

[occupied]

State fascism uses political dogma as a means of control, what that dogma happens to be is unimportant. It's all about having a kind of brutal law and order to make the masses be productive and compliant in spite of there being no means of social and economic mobility or voice in government. Authoritarianism knows no political bounds, all it takes is a populace that can be scared into submission. It's no accident that the Nazis were often called gangsters because Fascism resembles an organized crime operation more than anything else.

And that doesn't sound like the democrats at all.

Whatever, the entirely non-partisan point I was trying to make is that fascism is not right or left but a thing of the brutal leading the fearful. How much fear is in your politics? How brutal do you want the police to be in preserving order? How confident are you in the masses to determine what is right for them? These questions define a person as a fascist or not far more than simple political affiliation.

So can anyone speak at a college without violence or the admin shutting them down? Can a president be elected without people burning businesses? Can you disagree with the left and not be racist?

Take your soft nonpartisan bullshit and shove it up your ass. You ******* people brought us to this point.

Drop the shit for two minutes and have an actual conversation on the subject, is that so difficult? Everyone flings the F word all around so much until it has become meaningless or somehow synonymous with anarchy which is actually the polar opposite of fascism. Nothing you used as an example is fascism. The first is the weird politics of educational institutions that very often defy logic because they are run by committee, the second is anarchy and the third is the first amendment which protects your right to say anything you want but does not protect you from anyone else's freedom of speech if they think you are being an asshole.

Drop the shit while you open your asshole wide? Here's a word, **** off.

What people or ideas are allowed to speak at a college? Let's start there and see if you can handle the reality of college in 2017.

If the worst example of American fascism you can come up with something that merely offends you then you are doing far better than the bulk of humanity that lives in imminent fear of being murdered by their government if they get uppity. You do not have to fear this and yet you still feel oppressed somehow and take broad social trends as personal insults. Be glad you have the unbelievable luxury to form your own opinions. Quit worrying so much about what society thinks, be who you are and fuckem if they have a problem with that. Just be advised that being a dick has a cost, this is true across all human cultures since the beginning of time.

 

[2aguy]

Now, I've always been pretty sure that Fascism was a right wing government type. Hitler hated the Jews in large part because they were Marxist, no? It directly opposes liberalism in the way it seeks to run government. Some people on the right seem to think that the authoritarian element that gives the government a lot of power under Fascism automatically makes it a leftist ideology. Is that how it works? Big government automatically means it belongs to the left? Or is it possible that not all right wing ideology calls for tiny government?

Fascism was a term coined by mussolini....he did not hate the Jews and he wasn't particularly racist....the German socialists had a cultural problem with other races and the Jews.....it had nothing to do with fascism itself, which is just an economic model of socialism.

Yes....more government = left wing, less government = Right wing....here in the U.S....in Europe, you really only have left and far left

 

[Rustic]

And that doesn't sound like the democrats at all.

Whatever, the entirely non-partisan point I was trying to make is that fascism is not right or left but a thing of the brutal leading the fearful. How much fear is in your politics? How brutal do you want the police to be in preserving order? How confident are you in the masses to determine what is right for them? These questions define a person as a fascist or not far more than simple political affiliation.

So can anyone speak at a college without violence or the admin shutting them down? Can a president be elected without people burning businesses? Can you disagree with the left and not be racist?

Take your soft nonpartisan bullshit and shove it up your ass. You ******* people brought us to this point.

Drop the shit for two minutes and have an actual conversation on the subject, is that so difficult? Everyone flings the F word all around so much until it has become meaningless or somehow synonymous with anarchy which is actually the polar opposite of fascism. Nothing you used as an example is fascism. The first is the weird politics of educational institutions that very often defy logic because they are run by committee, the second is anarchy and the third is the first amendment which protects your right to say anything you want but does not protect you from anyone else's freedom of speech if they think you are being an asshole.

Drop the shit while you open your asshole wide? Here's a word, **** off.

What people or ideas are allowed to speak at a college? Let's start there and see if you can handle the reality of college in 2017.

If the worst example of American fascism you can come up with something that merely offends you then you are doing far better than the bulk of humanity that lives in imminent fear of being murdered by their government if they get uppity. You do not have to fear this and yet you still feel oppressed somehow and take broad social trends as personal insults. Be glad you have the unbelievable luxury to form your own opinions. Quit worrying so much about what society thinks, be who you are and fuckem if they have a problem with that. Just be advised that being a dick has a cost, this is true across all human cultures since the beginning of time.

Socialism/fascism same dif...
They are both embraced by hate filled progressives...

 

[2aguy]

describes Trump to a T ...

Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce.

No....Trump doesn't even come close to being a socialist......this is probably the most accurate definition of Fascism....the racism and anti Jewish aspect of German socialism weren't just found in Germany, the marxists hated the Jews, and they planned on having to murder those people who were too far behind the marxist historical curve.......

Fascism: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty

As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer. The word derives from fasces, the Roman symbol of collectivism and power: a tied bundle of rods with a protruding ax. In its day (the 1920s and 1930s), fascism was seen as the happy medium between boom-and-bust-prone liberal capitalism, with its alleged class conflict, wasteful competition, and profit-oriented egoism, and revolutionary Marxism, with its violent and socially divisive persecution of the bourgeoisie.
Fascism substituted the particularity of nationalism and racialism—“blood and soil”—for the internationalism of both classical liberalism and Marxism.
Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners.

Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.)
Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically.

In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace.Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions.

 

[2aguy]

Now, I've always been pretty sure that Fascism was a right wing government type. Hitler hated the Jews in large part because they were Marxist, no? It directly opposes liberalism in the way it seeks to run government. Some people on the right seem to think that the authoritarian element that gives the government a lot of power under Fascism automatically makes it a leftist ideology. Is that how it works? Big government automatically means it belongs to the left? Or is it possible that not all right wing ideology calls for tiny government?

You have to see beyond a single axis political spectrum...

Political scientists don't always agree on how an accurate spectrum should look, I only offer this as an example.


Fascism is associated with racism and anti-imigration.

To 1960-70s radicals associated fascism with police and government in general.


Like many words, the current context and mood is important.

Yeah...that is overly complicated and unnecessary....... one side believes in more government, the other less....

 

[2aguy]

Thousandth thread on this.

Both ends will claim that Fascism belongs to the other, and the memories of millions who suffered will once again be peed on.

And, here we go.
.

Right, but isn't that ridiculous? It seems kinda clear which end it manifested in. It was in opposition of Marxism and liberalism.

No...fascism was a term coined by mussolini after the communists kicked him out of the party. He needed a way to describe his brand of socialism to draw other socialists to his program. Then Stalin picked up on the term to differentiate the international socialists from the national socialists....

That is the truth....the fact and the reality.......

 

[2aguy]

This is the best chart on this.....

Most fascist democrats have no clue where liberals have them standing....

 

[2aguy]

And a good look at why fascism is socialism and therefore left wing...

Why Nazism Was Socialism and Why Socialism Is Totalitarian

My purpose today is to make just two main points:

(1) To show why Nazi Germany was a socialist state, not a capitalist one. And

(2) to show why socialism, understood as an economic system based on government ownership of the means of production, positively requires a totalitarian dictatorship.

The identification of Nazi Germany as a socialist state was one of the many great contributions of Ludwig von Mises.

----

But what specifically established de facto socialism in Nazi Germany was the introduction of price and wage controls in 1936. These were imposed in response to the inflation of the money supply carried out by the regime from the time of its coming to power in early 1933. The Nazi regime inflated the money supply as the means of financing the vast increase in government spending required by its programs of public works, subsidies, and rearmament. The price and wage controls were imposed in response to the rise in prices that began to result from the inflation.

The effect of the combination of inflation and price and wage controls is shortages, that is, a situation in which the quantities of goods people attempt to buy exceed the quantities available for sale.

Shortages, in turn, result in economic chaos. It's not only that consumers who show up in stores early in the day are in a position to buy up all the stocks of goods and leave customers who arrive later, with nothing — a situation to which governments typically respond by imposing rationing. Shortages result in chaos throughout the economic system. They introduce randomness in the distribution of supplies between geographical areas, in the allocation of a factor of production among its different products, in the allocation of labor and capital among the different branches of the economic system.

In the face of the combination of price controls and shortages, the effect of a decrease in the supply of an item is not, as it would be in a free market, to raise its price and increase its profitability, thereby operating to stop the decrease in supply, or reverse it if it has gone too far. Price control prohibits the rise in price and thus the increase in profitability. At the same time, the shortages caused by price controls prevent increases in supply from reducing price and profitability. When there is a shortage, the effect of an increase in supply is merely a reduction in the severity of the shortage. Only when the shortage is totally eliminated does an increase in supply necessitate a decrease in price and bring about a decrease in profitability.

As a result, the combination of price controls and shortages makes possible random movements of supply without any effect on price and profitability. In this situation, the production of the most trivial and unimportant goods, even pet rocks, can be expanded at the expense of the production of the most urgently needed and important goods, such as life-saving medicines, with no effect on the price or profitability of either good. Price controls would prevent the production of the medicines from becoming more profitable as their supply decreased, while a shortage even of pet rocks prevented their production from becoming less profitable as their supply increased.

As Mises showed, to cope with such unintended effects of its price controls, the government must either abolish the price controls or add further measures, namely, precisely the control over what is produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it is distributed, which I referred to earlier. The combination of price controls with this further set of controls constitutes the de facto socialization of the economic system. For it means that the government then exercises all of the substantive powers of ownership.

 

[occupied]

Now, I've always been pretty sure that Fascism was a right wing government type. Hitler hated the Jews in large part because they were Marxist, no? It directly opposes liberalism in the way it seeks to run government. Some people on the right seem to think that the authoritarian element that gives the government a lot of power under Fascism automatically makes it a leftist ideology. Is that how it works? Big government automatically means it belongs to the left? Or is it possible that not all right wing ideology calls for tiny government?

Fascism was a term coined by mussolini....he did not hate the Jews and he wasn't particularly racist....the German socialists had a cultural problem with other races and the Jews.....it had nothing to do with fascism itself, which is just an economic model of socialism.

Yes....more government = left wing, less government = Right wing....here in the U.S....in Europe, you really only have left and far left

Too bad for your argument that the right absolutely loves the main instrument of fascistic control, the police. When you say smaller government you are not talking about less cops, less laws, less prisons and a more permissive society are you? Of course not. Haven't seen a right winger yet that thought we had enough cops or didn't think they should be more brutal with the rabble. There's your fascism right there.

 

[francoHFW]

Now, I've always been pretty sure that Fascism was a right wing government type. Hitler hated the Jews in large part because they were Marxist, no? It directly opposes liberalism in the way it seeks to run government. Some people on the right seem to think that the authoritarian element that gives the government a lot of power under Fascism automatically makes it a leftist ideology. Is that how it works? Big government automatically means it belongs to the left? Or is it possible that not all right wing ideology calls for tiny government?

Fascism was a term coined by mussolini....he did not hate the Jews and he wasn't particularly racist....the German socialists had a cultural problem with other races and the Jews.....it had nothing to do with fascism itself, which is just an economic model of socialism.

Yes....more government = left wing, less government = Right wing....here in the U.S....in Europe, you really only have left and far left

Where the heck do you people get this brand new bs theory? "Liberal Fascism"? Talk Radio? Seriously...It's GOP propaganda anyway, dupes. GOP is small government Family values my butt.

 

[francoHFW]

And a good look at why fascism is socialism and therefore left wing...

Why Nazism Was Socialism and Why Socialism Is Totalitarian

My purpose today is to make just two main points:

(1) To show why Nazi Germany was a socialist state, not a capitalist one. And

(2) to show why socialism, understood as an economic system based on government ownership of the means of production, positively requires a totalitarian dictatorship.

The identification of Nazi Germany as a socialist state was one of the many great contributions of Ludwig von Mises.

----

But what specifically established de facto socialism in Nazi Germany was the introduction of price and wage controls in 1936. These were imposed in response to the inflation of the money supply carried out by the regime from the time of its coming to power in early 1933. The Nazi regime inflated the money supply as the means of financing the vast increase in government spending required by its programs of public works, subsidies, and rearmament. The price and wage controls were imposed in response to the rise in prices that began to result from the inflation.

The effect of the combination of inflation and price and wage controls is shortages, that is, a situation in which the quantities of goods people attempt to buy exceed the quantities available for sale.

Shortages, in turn, result in economic chaos. It's not only that consumers who show up in stores early in the day are in a position to buy up all the stocks of goods and leave customers who arrive later, with nothing — a situation to which governments typically respond by imposing rationing. Shortages result in chaos throughout the economic system. They introduce randomness in the distribution of supplies between geographical areas, in the allocation of a factor of production among its different products, in the allocation of labor and capital among the different branches of the economic system.

In the face of the combination of price controls and shortages, the effect of a decrease in the supply of an item is not, as it would be in a free market, to raise its price and increase its profitability, thereby operating to stop the decrease in supply, or reverse it if it has gone too far. Price control prohibits the rise in price and thus the increase in profitability. At the same time, the shortages caused by price controls prevent increases in supply from reducing price and profitability. When there is a shortage, the effect of an increase in supply is merely a reduction in the severity of the shortage. Only when the shortage is totally eliminated does an increase in supply necessitate a decrease in price and bring about a decrease in profitability.

As a result, the combination of price controls and shortages makes possible random movements of supply without any effect on price and profitability. In this situation, the production of the most trivial and unimportant goods, even pet rocks, can be expanded at the expense of the production of the most urgently needed and important goods, such as life-saving medicines, with no effect on the price or profitability of either good. Price controls would prevent the production of the medicines from becoming more profitable as their supply decreased, while a shortage even of pet rocks prevented their production from becoming less profitable as their supply increased.

As Mises showed, to cope with such unintended effects of its price controls, the government must either abolish the price controls or add further measures, namely, precisely the control over what is produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it is distributed, which I referred to earlier. The combination of price controls with this further set of controls constitutes the de facto socialization of the economic system. For it means that the government then exercises all of the substantive powers of ownership.

Nazism was fascism with a command economy. Socialism is always democratic. Communism NOT. As known everywhere but the USA...

 

[2aguy]

Now, I've always been pretty sure that Fascism was a right wing government type. Hitler hated the Jews in large part because they were Marxist, no? It directly opposes liberalism in the way it seeks to run government. Some people on the right seem to think that the authoritarian element that gives the government a lot of power under Fascism automatically makes it a leftist ideology. Is that how it works? Big government automatically means it belongs to the left? Or is it possible that not all right wing ideology calls for tiny government?

Fascism was a term coined by mussolini....he did not hate the Jews and he wasn't particularly racist....the German socialists had a cultural problem with other races and the Jews.....it had nothing to do with fascism itself, which is just an economic model of socialism.

Yes....more government = left wing, less government = Right wing....here in the U.S....in Europe, you really only have left and far left

Too bad for your argument that the right absolutely loves the main instrument of fascistic control, the police. When you say smaller government you are not talking about less cops, less laws, less prisons and a more permissive society are you? Of course not. Haven't seen a right winger yet that thought we had enough cops or didn't think they should be more brutal with the rabble. There's your fascism right there.

No moron....socialism is when the government controls the means of production....that is what fascism is......the control of the cops is more likely in left wing, socialist states...look around the world, moron....

 

[Norman]

Now, I've always been pretty sure that Fascism was a right wing government type. Hitler hated the Jews in large part because they were Marxist, no? It directly opposes liberalism in the way it seeks to run government. Some people on the right seem to think that the authoritarian element that gives the government a lot of power under Fascism automatically makes it a leftist ideology. Is that how it works? Big government automatically means it belongs to the left? Or is it possible that not all right wing ideology calls for tiny government?

It's an authoritarian one. An ideology where everything belongs to the government, unless you want to get beat up. So today that would mean far left.

 

[2aguy]

Now, I've always been pretty sure that Fascism was a right wing government type. Hitler hated the Jews in large part because they were Marxist, no? It directly opposes liberalism in the way it seeks to run government. Some people on the right seem to think that the authoritarian element that gives the government a lot of power under Fascism automatically makes it a leftist ideology. Is that how it works? Big government automatically means it belongs to the left? Or is it possible that not all right wing ideology calls for tiny government?

Fascism was a term coined by mussolini....he did not hate the Jews and he wasn't particularly racist....the German socialists had a cultural problem with other races and the Jews.....it had nothing to do with fascism itself, which is just an economic model of socialism.

Yes....more government = left wing, less government = Right wing....here in the U.S....in Europe, you really only have left and far left

Where the heck do you people get this brand new bs theory? "Liberal Fascism"? Talk Radio? Seriously...It's GOP propaganda anyway, dupes. GOP is small government Family values my butt.

No...from actual economists who study it...moron. Friedrich Hayek and Ludwig von Mises....both understood that fascism was just another type of socialism....

 

[occupied]

Now, I've always been pretty sure that Fascism was a right wing government type. Hitler hated the Jews in large part because they were Marxist, no? It directly opposes liberalism in the way it seeks to run government. Some people on the right seem to think that the authoritarian element that gives the government a lot of power under Fascism automatically makes it a leftist ideology. Is that how it works? Big government automatically means it belongs to the left? Or is it possible that not all right wing ideology calls for tiny government?

Fascism was a term coined by mussolini....he did not hate the Jews and he wasn't particularly racist....the German socialists had a cultural problem with other races and the Jews.....it had nothing to do with fascism itself, which is just an economic model of socialism.

Yes....more government = left wing, less government = Right wing....here in the U.S....in Europe, you really only have left and far left

Where the heck do you people get this brand new bs theory? "Liberal Fascism"? Talk Radio? Seriously...It's GOP propaganda anyway, dupes. GOP is small government Family values my butt.

He is using a political argument designed specifically to convince conservatives that they can never possibly be authoritarian and that every bad thing that has ever happened in the history of human governance is somehow a liberal thing. This is perhaps the single most dangerous idea in American politics, a whole segment of society who thinks their authoritarianism is something good and pure and somehow unconnected with all those other times that shit got out of hand.

 

[Synthaholic]

Discussion: is Fascism a left or right wing government type?

There's no discussion. It's a Right-Wing/corporate partnership.

Only morons and the dishonest claim that Hitler and Mussolini were Liberals.