Discipline

[jimnyc]

http://memri.org/video/segment8_program.html

Unreal! They call it "discipline", I call it abuse.

Don't feel like reading? Fine, watch the video!
http://stream.realimpact.net/rihurl.ram?file=realimpact/memri/memri_10-30-02_08.rm

 

[janeeng]

Watched the video instead...tell you, my Husband ever came after me with a rod, he would get it shoved up his ass! banish me from the bed, who cares! but hit me with a rod, then he better sleep with one eye open!

 

[eric]

Full of peace and love. Boy would I like to get my hands on some of these REAL men, they would get a quick education in abuse !!!

 

[jimnyc]

It must be fake though, too many supporters here claim that Muslim women don't get mistreated.

Eric, I can think of a few women here in the states that can take care of these cowards!

 

[eric]

I say we send Janeen !

 

[Spirit_Soul]

This type of "rod" behavior looks like the thumb rule commonly seen in stories like the Charlotte Perkins Gilman's stories . Even though there is no direct emphasis on the rob behavior of many husbands in that time period, the conflict in her stories itself is the total dominance of the male figure.

If we make domination be synonymous to power then domination in a realtionship would mean possession of this such as authority , influence and control.

The husbands usually have the most power in the east and eastern relationships because authority comes with financial power, influence is also facilitated with the power to control money in the relationship and control ofcourse is also money based.

Usually in these countries, the men work and women are made to watch over the children. Even though it is true that other way is also natural and perfectly fine (I think I know a couple who have a wonderful relationship even though the male is a house husband) .

Women are also not educated, I have been to India, even though in hindu families no one stops women from educating themselves, in muslim families in rural places of India, education for women is seen as a waste of time and money, because they have it in their scriptures that women only were made to take care of their children and a man who does not take care of his wife (financially) is a rascal.

So, the obvious subjugation of women in the eastern societies cause them to be prey to abuse, but I refuse to believe that this is due to Islam. Even though Islam advocates dependency of a woman over a man, it does not make her, his property. It also says that a person who does not keep his wife happy is also an unmanly person. I will get the references to these statements if you like.

I have read some parts of Quran, due to my curiosity, but I have not seen a verse that says "Man can abuse a woman and allah permits this".

Also, if you think Islam is the reason, even though it does not directly advocate the subjugation of women, then you should also look at chinese, japanese, Indian (patels), mongolian cultures where women are also subject to steriotypical rulings of the society. You should also look at America from 1800s up to 1960s ... you will see a great similarity between our culture and theirs.

So, please do not take culture and say "they are evil, they are demons" etc. thats not right.

 

[jimnyc]

in muslim families in rural places of India, education for women is seen as a waste of time and money, because they have it in their scriptures that women only were made to take care of their children and a man who does not take care of his wife (financially) is a rascal.

So, the obvious subjugation of women in the eastern societies cause them to be prey to abuse, but I refuse to believe that this is due to Islam.

Wouldn't keeping the women from being free to work be a form of mistreatment? Please explain how the religion isn't part of this problem you speak of.

 

[janeeng]

eric, thank you, I will go! I am not sure whether to believe that this happens or not, but I believe whether it be there or here, abuse is happening, and I would love to kick the ass of a man that would use a rod on his wife, that's horrible. I succeeded in kicking the ass of 2 twin brothers once, well, they were little dweebs, but I would love to take the rod of a guy that did that, and shove it up their ass, let them whine like babies and see how it felt.

 

[aqeelabbas]

If you care to read the whole article...
Its almost useless talking to these guys...
I agree spirit soul since he knows better what happens in subcontinent..totally agreed..NOT THE RELIGIONS FAULT.. BUT SOCIETY...YOu guys only mention 2 or 3 quotes of Quran regarding women ..read the whole QUran you will then understand..but why would you? You consider ATTRACTION from WORD OF GOD as BRAIN WASHING..poor u!

 

[jimnyc]

If you care to read the whole article...
Its almost useless talking to these guys...

I did, and watched the video as well. Does it not depict abuse of Muslim women? Maybe not all, but don't try and tell me this abuse doesn't exist.

YOu guys only mention 2 or 3 quotes of Quran regarding women

Isn't that enough? How many entries need there be before it is looked upon as mistreatment of women? Since there are only a few entries, that makes them ok?

You consider ATTRACTION from WORD OF GOD as BRAIN WASHING..poor u!

Your constant defense of the treatment of Muslim women is what is poor. Defend those that don't participate in this activity, thats fine, but claiming it is false and doesn't exist at all only leads me to believe you have a blind eye to the facts.

 

[janeeng]

I have read some of divorce as well, and not thrilled with what I read there either. I do believe society is a blame, but then you have others that believe, which we discussed, that blowing themselves up will bring them to the promised land, and they say it's quoted and written, so explain this then.

 

[aqeelabbas]

So those who say that we will go to Heaven by blowing people are NONMUSLIMS, Foolish and Ignorant whether from my society or form yours..
BUT IF YOU SUPPRESS THEM AS IN PALESTINE THEN WHAT SHALL THEY DO? THEY SIT BACK AND SEE HOW THEY ARE BEING SLAUGHTERED??Its a human nature..seeking revenge..Even revenge is considered a deed not liked by Allah and his prophets as mentioned in Quran.. Holy prophet forgave all Pagans who were fighting him from 13 years and those who had driven him out of Mecca..A common Amnesty to EVERY person in Mecca..BUT

"Fight until there is no more opression and Peace prevails"
Every action has a reaction..NO body is mad that the go on blowing people..As I told you This only happens in countries where Muslims are being suppressed...Why doesnt suicide bombings happen in Pakistan? We have a HIGE ppopulation of NON MUSLIMS here ..Our socitey treats them equal UNLIKE in many other countries.COme to PK and go and see ur self...
To solve a problem you have to identify the root causes of the problem..What does your Govt do to a person who kills other in self defense ? We have Innocents just like you have innocents..You kill us we kill you thats it..Its NOT written in Quran to go about killing innocents but what if we are being killed We have no weapons ..Our resolution are vetoed 40 times in UN..what will you do?

 

[jimnyc]

Strapping a bomb to yourself and detonating it in an open market, killing innocent civilians is far from what I would call "self defense"

What does your Govt do to a person who kills other in self defense ?

That's just it, the government will prosecute them. People like you defend terrorists rather then condemn them. What does YOUR government do to people that blow up innocent civilians?

I don't care if these people are opressed or not, that doesn't even come close to justifying terrorism. Many black people in the USA claim to be opressed, should they be lead to believe that killing people is ok to help their cause?

 

[aqeelabbas]

IF YOU GUYS STOP ITS RESOLUTIONS 42 TIMES???
ISNT THIS FRUSTATING? FOR GODSAKE PEOPLE IN PALESTINE ARE ALSO HUMAN BEINGS..HAVE YOU NEVER SEEN A VIDEO THAT UNIV STUDENTS THROWING STONES AT TANKS..HOW THESE GUYS DEMOLISH THEIR HOUSES? ISNT THIS TERRORISM ? JUST TELL ME?

 

[jimnyc]

IF YOU GUYS STOP ITS RESOLUTIONS 42 TIMES???

You do realize that the United Nations is comprised of MANY countries, don't you? The USA has no control over what the rest of the countries vote.

ISNT THIS FRUSTATING? FOR GODSAKE PEOPLE IN PALESTINE ARE ALSO HUMAN BEINGS..

Yes, there are tons of good people as well, good thing we were discussing terrorists and women abusers

 

[Spirit_Soul]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Wouldn't keeping the women from being free to work be a form of mistreatment? Please explain how the religion isn't part of this problem you speak of.

Actually, Islam provides a strategic way of living for better survival and the protection of the society to stop it from getting degraded. There should be order in the society.

So, I think it is not unnatural or a type of mistreatment for a woman to be kept away from working outside the home. In a traditional society, men carry out certain jobs, women too carry out certain jobs, if we try to understand them through an open mind we see logic in them.

In my view, it talks about the importance of nurturing , which ofcourse is natural to a woman. Nurture and care is given the importance and if one partner devotes her life to the nurture and upbringing of the children , then children will grow out to be very cultured and loving and intelligent (Even though it does not work in the extreme cases, it works in many cases, like we see in middle class families of India).

Secondly, the scriptures then talk about how men should care and "fund" their women, who use that money to organize it to get whatever is necessary for the children and for the family.


Making women stay at home is not mistreatment. If that were so, then men who stay at home should also view it as a mistreatment.

Women are made to stay at home because of their immense power to nurture their young. This is also scientific, if you take humans to be one of the primate species, then in all the primates, it is the females that care and nurture their young.


By these statements I am not trying to justify beating of a wife.. What I am trying to say here is that it is not something that we think it is. It is not horrible for a woman to be a housewife, it is not like making her inferior. It is a job that is best fit for a woman and a job she is responsible for in both instances : natural and logical.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Spirit_Soul
Making women stay at home is not mistreatment. If that were so, then men who stay at home should also view it as a mistreatment.

What if the woman WANTS to work and she isn't allowed to, thats what I was referring to. Those values all sound nice and pretty, but the woman should have the CHOICE of what she prefers to do.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Spirit_Soul
It is not horrible for a woman to be a housewife

Sure, so long as that is what she CHOSE to do. I'm sure it's not as pleasant when you are told that is what you will do and are forbidden from working.

 

[Spirit_Soul]

Originally posted by jimnyc
What if the woman WANTS to work and she isn't allowed to, thats what I was referring to. Those values all sound nice and pretty, but the woman should have the CHOICE of what she prefers to do.

No, In that society, a man has no right to stay at home. He cannot stay at home, because the society will not permit.

Same thing with women, in that society women too should not have the right to work, because the society will not permit them to work.

It is made so that men and women focus on their best abilities. These eastern philosophers, both vedic and Islamic are not idiots.

They were not these barbarian hordes in the past. Islam was very civilized and very powerful. Islam also was very fair and still is. You have a totally different view, in which you perceive a woman to be unhappy in her natural state. I can assure you that that is not the case in many instances.

The women in the west were unhappy because of 0% rights that they had. Women were not given any rights, their ideals were not cared for.

It is not like that in the east, women are respected for what they do, Islam gives many rights to women. They are not made into these little puppets of men. You are thinking of a totally different thing.

 

[jimnyc]

No, In that society, a man has no right to stay at home. He cannot stay at home, because the society will not permit.

Same thing with women, in that society women too should not have the right to work, because the society will not permit them to work.

Something is seriously wrong with society when it deems equal opportunity as fair and just.

It is made so that men and women focus on their best abilities. These eastern philosophers, both vedic and Islamic are not idiots.

So society will tell me what my "best ability" is? Bullshit, people should be free to exercise their own abilities and pursue their own goals. That's something that should be worldwide and not held back by society or local customs.

They were not these barbarian hordes in the past. Islam was very civilized and very powerful. Islam also was very fair and still is. You have a totally different view, in which you perceive a woman to be unhappy in her natural state. I can assure you that that is not the case in many instances.

And in many instances it is, and it's those instances that we are discussing. Society accepting it as a whole doesn't make the women who are complaining wrong, and it certainly doesn't justify the men that abuse their wives.