Bull Ring ding: Does work in physics require motion

edthecynic

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ding,

Ding says motion has nothing to do with work and therefore the perpetual motion in the universe does not disprove his thermal equilibrium lie.

The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases. Such systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium. A thermodynamic system in its own state of internal thermodynamic equilibrium has a spatially uniform temperature. The second law of thermodynamics states that every energy transfer increases the entropy of the universe due to the loss of usable energy. During energy transfer, some amount of energy is lost in the form of unusable heat energy. Because energy is lost in an unusable form, no energy transfer is completely efficient. The more energy that is lost by a system to its surroundings, the less ordered and more random the system is. Entropy is a measure of randomness and disorder; high entropy means high disorder and low energy. Thermal equilibrium only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work. This is when the universe reaches maximum entropy.
At what temperature does all motion stop?
Motion is not the measure. Thermodynamic equilibrium occurs when a spatially uniform temperature is achieved. Thermal equilibrium only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work. And since we are no where near this point, the universe has not existed forever. That's why everyone who understands cosmology accepts that the universe is approximately 14 billion years old.
Motion IS the result of work!!!!!
The only way energy can no longer be exploited to do work is when all motion stops.
work = force x distance
 
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ding

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ding,

Ding says motion has nothing to do with work and therefore the perpetual motion in the universe does not disprove his thermal equilibrium lie.

The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases. Such systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium. A thermodynamic system in its own state of internal thermodynamic equilibrium has a spatially uniform temperature. The second law of thermodynamics states that every energy transfer increases the entropy of the universe due to the loss of usable energy. During energy transfer, some amount of energy is lost in the form of unusable heat energy. Because energy is lost in an unusable form, no energy transfer is completely efficient. The more energy that is lost by a system to its surroundings, the less ordered and more random the system is. Entropy is a measure of randomness and disorder; high entropy means high disorder and low energy. Thermal equilibrium only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work. This is when the universe reaches maximum entropy.
At what temperature does all motion stop?
Motion is not the measure. Thermodynamic equilibrium occurs when a spatially uniform temperature is achieved. Thermal equilibrium only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work. And since we are no where near this point, the universe has not existed forever. That's why everyone who understands cosmology accepts that the universe is approximately 14 billion years old.
Motion IS the result of work!!!!!
The only way energy can no longer be exploited to do work is when all motion stops.
work = force x distance
No. I said motion had nothing to do with thermodynamic equilibrium.
 

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Ed, says thermodynamic equilibrium is not possible because it is not possible to reach absolute zero and therefore it is not possible for all atomic motion to cease.
 

ding

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Thermodynamic equilibrium is the state where there is no thermodynamic free energy and therefore can no longer sustain processes that increase entropy. The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases. Such systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium. A thermodynamic system in its own state of internal thermodynamic equilibrium has a spatially uniform temperature. The second law of thermodynamics states that every energy transfer increases the entropy of the universe due to the loss of usable energy. During energy transfer, some amount of energy is lost in the form of unusable heat energy. Because energy is lost in an unusable form, no energy transfer is completely efficient. The more energy that is lost by a system to its surroundings, the less ordered and more random the system is. Entropy is a measure of randomness and disorder; high entropy means high disorder and low energy. Thermal equilibrium only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work. This is when the universe reaches maximum entropy.
 
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edthecynic

edthecynic

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ding,

Ding says motion has nothing to do with work and therefore the perpetual motion in the universe does not disprove his thermal equilibrium lie.

The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases. Such systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium. A thermodynamic system in its own state of internal thermodynamic equilibrium has a spatially uniform temperature. The second law of thermodynamics states that every energy transfer increases the entropy of the universe due to the loss of usable energy. During energy transfer, some amount of energy is lost in the form of unusable heat energy. Because energy is lost in an unusable form, no energy transfer is completely efficient. The more energy that is lost by a system to its surroundings, the less ordered and more random the system is. Entropy is a measure of randomness and disorder; high entropy means high disorder and low energy. Thermal equilibrium only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work. This is when the universe reaches maximum entropy.
At what temperature does all motion stop?
Motion is not the measure. Thermodynamic equilibrium occurs when a spatially uniform temperature is achieved. Thermal equilibrium only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work. And since we are no where near this point, the universe has not existed forever. That's why everyone who understands cosmology accepts that the universe is approximately 14 billion years old.
Motion IS the result of work!!!!!
The only way energy can no longer be exploited to do work is when all motion stops.
work = force x distance
No. I said motion had nothing to do with thermodynamic equilibrium.
And as the above PROVES you are dead wrong.

What the hell do you think the "dynamics" part of thermoDYNAMICS means????

Dynamics | physics

Dynamics, branch of physical science and subdivision of mechanics that is concerned with the motion of material objects in relation to the physical factors that affect them: force, mass, momentum, energy.
 
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edthecynic

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Thermodynamic equilibrium is the state where there is no thermodynamic free energy and therefore can no longer sustain processes that increase entropy. The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases. Such systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium. A thermodynamic system in its own state of internal thermodynamic equilibrium has a spatially uniform temperature. The second law of thermodynamics states that every energy transfer increases the entropy of the universe due to the loss of usable energy. During energy transfer, some amount of energy is lost in the form of unusable heat energy. Because energy is lost in an unusable form, no energy transfer is completely efficient. The more energy that is lost by a system to its surroundings, the less ordered and more random the system is. Entropy is a measure of randomness and disorder; high entropy means high disorder and low energy. Thermal equilibrium only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work. This is when the universe reaches maximum entropy.
And there it is, WORK, a force through a DISTANCE, meaning MOTION.
So at what temperature does ALL motion stop and therefore there is no more KINETIC energy, the energy of motion and the energy that does WORK?????

The Third Law of ThermoDYNAMICS says there is no such temperature in REALITY.
 

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ding,

Ding says motion has nothing to do with work and therefore the perpetual motion in the universe does not disprove his thermal equilibrium lie.

At what temperature does all motion stop?
Motion is not the measure. Thermodynamic equilibrium occurs when a spatially uniform temperature is achieved. Thermal equilibrium only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work. And since we are no where near this point, the universe has not existed forever. That's why everyone who understands cosmology accepts that the universe is approximately 14 billion years old.
Motion IS the result of work!!!!!
The only way energy can no longer be exploited to do work is when all motion stops.
work = force x distance
No. I said motion had nothing to do with thermodynamic equilibrium.
And as the above PROVES you are dead wrong.

What the hell do you think the "dynamics" part of thermoDYNAMICS means????

Dynamics | physics

Dynamics, branch of physical science and subdivision of mechanics that is concerned with the motion of material objects in relation to the physical factors that affect them: force, mass, momentum, energy.
The operative word in Thermodynamics is thermo as in the ability of heat to perform work.

In the context of thermodynamic equilibrium, dynamics or motion does not play a part in the discussion.
 

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Thermodynamic equilibrium is the state where there is no thermodynamic free energy and therefore can no longer sustain processes that increase entropy. The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases. Such systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium. A thermodynamic system in its own state of internal thermodynamic equilibrium has a spatially uniform temperature. The second law of thermodynamics states that every energy transfer increases the entropy of the universe due to the loss of usable energy. During energy transfer, some amount of energy is lost in the form of unusable heat energy. Because energy is lost in an unusable form, no energy transfer is completely efficient. The more energy that is lost by a system to its surroundings, the less ordered and more random the system is. Entropy is a measure of randomness and disorder; high entropy means high disorder and low energy. Thermal equilibrium only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work. This is when the universe reaches maximum entropy.
And there it is, WORK, a force through a DISTANCE, meaning MOTION.
So at what temperature does ALL motion stop and therefore there is no more KINETIC energy, the energy of motion and the energy that does WORK?????

The Third Law of ThermoDYNAMICS says there is no such temperature in REALITY.
Thermodynamic equilibrium does not mean no motion. Thermodynamic equilibrium means that all objects are at the same temperature.
 
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edthecynic

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ding,

Ding says motion has nothing to do with work and therefore the perpetual motion in the universe does not disprove his thermal equilibrium lie.

Motion is not the measure. Thermodynamic equilibrium occurs when a spatially uniform temperature is achieved. Thermal equilibrium only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work. And since we are no where near this point, the universe has not existed forever. That's why everyone who understands cosmology accepts that the universe is approximately 14 billion years old.
Motion IS the result of work!!!!!
The only way energy can no longer be exploited to do work is when all motion stops.
work = force x distance
No. I said motion had nothing to do with thermodynamic equilibrium.
And as the above PROVES you are dead wrong.

What the hell do you think the "dynamics" part of thermoDYNAMICS means????

Dynamics | physics

Dynamics, branch of physical science and subdivision of mechanics that is concerned with the motion of material objects in relation to the physical factors that affect them: force, mass, momentum, energy.
The operative word in Thermodynamics is thermo as in the ability of heat to perform work.

In the context of thermodynamic equilibrium, dynamics or motion does not play a part in the discussion.
There is no such thing as thermo being the ONLY operative factor in thermoDYNAMICS. You just made up that bullshit for the bullring.

Pontification does not count for a damn in physics, if you knew anything at all about physics you would know that.
 
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edthecynic

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Thermodynamic equilibrium does not mean no motion.
Yes it does, it means no WORK can be done, as YOU stated in your first post, and only when there is no kinetic energy, the energy of motion that does work, can you have thermoDYNAMIC equilibrium, and since there is no temperature at which all motion stops, according to the Third Law of ThermoDYNAMICS, thermoDYNAMIC equilibrium is impossible in reality.
 

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Thermodynamic equilibrium does not require the temperature of the system to be absolute zero. Thermal or thermodynamic equilibrium only requires a uniform temperature where there is no more thermodynamic free energy to sustain processes and increase entropy.
 
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When a system reaches a uniform temperature, no more thermodynamic free energy exists to sustain processes the system is said to have reached thermal or thermodynamic equilibrium.
 

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When a system reaches thermal or thermodynamic equilibrium maximum entropy has been reached. The temperature for this to occur does not need to be absolute zero. It only needs to be uniform.
 
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edthecynic

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Thermodynamic equilibrium does not require the temperature of the system to be absolute zero. Thermal or thermodynamic equilibrium only requires a uniform temperature where there is no more thermodynamic free energy to sustain processes and increase entropy.
But it DOES requite a temperature where no more WORK can be done and THAT requires a temperature where all motion stops, and no such temperature is attainable in REALITY according to the TLoT!!!!

The same answer applies to your two other posts because in all three you simply dishonestly left out the part that comes after the word processes, that you slipped up and included earlier.

Thermal equilibrium only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work. This is when the universe reaches maximum entropy.
 

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Maximum entropy is reached when thermal equilibrium is reached.
 

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Thermal equilibrium does not require the temperature of the system to reach absolute zero.
 

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Thermal equilibrium is achieved when the system reaches a spatially uniform temperature.
 

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When thermal equilibrium is achieved no more work can be performed through thermodynamic processes as a temperature differential does not exist to drive those processes. From a thermodynamic standpoint the system has reached maximum entropy and disorder.
 

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ding,

Ding says motion has nothing to do with work and therefore the perpetual motion in the universe does not disprove his thermal equilibrium lie.

The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases. Such systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium. A thermodynamic system in its own state of internal thermodynamic equilibrium has a spatially uniform temperature. The second law of thermodynamics states that every energy transfer increases the entropy of the universe due to the loss of usable energy. During energy transfer, some amount of energy is lost in the form of unusable heat energy. Because energy is lost in an unusable form, no energy transfer is completely efficient. The more energy that is lost by a system to its surroundings, the less ordered and more random the system is. Entropy is a measure of randomness and disorder; high entropy means high disorder and low energy. Thermal equilibrium only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work. This is when the universe reaches maximum entropy.
At what temperature does all motion stop?
Motion is not the measure. Thermodynamic equilibrium occurs when a spatially uniform temperature is achieved. Thermal equilibrium only requires that temperature differences or other processes may no longer be exploited to perform work. And since we are no where near this point, the universe has not existed forever. That's why everyone who understands cosmology accepts that the universe is approximately 14 billion years old.
Motion IS the result of work!!!!!
The only way energy can no longer be exploited to do work is when all motion stops.
work = force x distance
Just remember every action has a reaction.
 

Dan Stubbs

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When thermal equilibrium is achieved no more work can be performed through thermodynamic processes as a temperature differential does not exist to drive those processes. From a thermodynamic standpoint the system has reached maximum entropy and disorder.
If you look at Newton Cradel and how it works, now if you replace those balls with say newtrons the whole system changes in a new type of theory.It becomes more of a thermalization of friction. If you take the thinking to a quantuin area I can only guess what will be found.
 

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