Did Obama lie about health care for illegals?

[MaggieMae]

Has anyone checked out the anti-Obama bumper stickers ad???? Some of them are hilarious.

Agreed - conservatives have ALWAYS had a higher degree of humor. Poor Dems are too insecure and thin-skinned. This forum gives us daily examples of that simple fact...

Many anti-Obama bumper stickers and avatars I've seen are copycats of the anti-Bush statements, like the "Stuck on Stupid" one someone uses as an avatar here. Or even the "Kool-Aid" references were used against Bush. But stealing is what Republicans do best, so....

 

[oreo]

Out of the 12 MILLION illegals that are in this country--OBAMA wants to give them a path-way to citizenship--therefore--they would be covered under any public option plan.

READ IT & PLAY THE VIDEO.

LEAVING NORMAL: Obama Won’t Give Federal Insurance Benefits to Illegal Aliens, He’ll Make Them Legal First

 

[MaggieMae]

Buck Ofama, hahahaha!

Sorta like "BuckFush"???

I rest my case. You people are NEVER original.

 

[Titanic Sailor]

That would be YOU are fine; YOU help each other (in your clan). YOU got yours, so **** everybody else. It's the subtle mantra of the new generation of greedy Americans. Jefferson and Madison do regular turns in their graves.

I can't believe anyone has the gall to call the most generous citizens on the planet greedy, and make excuses for a corrupt government. This is why the Syracuse study clearly reflected that conservatives are much more generous than liberals. Liberals don't grasp charity or helping others, they need a corrupt government to help them feel somewhat "human".

 

[Titanic Sailor]

If I wasn't mistaken, it looks like Maggie is crying. There's no crying on message boards.

 

[oreo]

Has anyone checked out the anti-Obama bumper stickers ad???? Some of them are hilarious.

Agreed - conservatives have ALWAYS had a higher degree of humor. Poor Dems are too insecure and thin-skinned. This forum gives us daily examples of that simple fact...

Many anti-Obama bumper stickers and avatars I've seen are copycats of the anti-Bush statements, like the "Stuck on Stupid" one someone uses as an avatar here. Or even the "Kool-Aid" references were used against Bush. But stealing is what Republicans do best, so....

Yeah--again when a deadbeat liberal that wants everything for FREE--aka paid for by someone else---& they have nothing to say about the topic--it's CHANGE THE SUBJECT--

 

[Smartmouthwoman]

Anyone who believes the govt will suddenly start asking for proof of citizenship should be reminded that currently, illegals can (and do):

Get a drivers license.
Buy insurance.
Open a bank account.
Enroll their kids in school.
Buy a house.
Buy a car.
Get a loan.
Open a business.
VOTE.

All of these 'privileges' are available, even though laws are on the books to prevent it. It's as simple as having a child born in the USA who is eligible to be issued a SS#, then the parents using that number to obtain anything their little hearts desire. Unless Obama stipulates that all SS#s must be verified, nothing will change... illegals will be entitled to the same healthcare options as legal citizens. Only the extremely naive believe that we'll see piles of dead Mexicans in the streets because Obama said illegals won't be covered.

Not saying much for the PRIVATE BUSINESSES that allow it, eh? Allowing illegals to get drivers licenses is a state decision. And last time I looked, they were NOT allowed to vote. Why would they even want to risk that kind of exposure?

Private businesses? Like the DMV? Federally regulated banks? FHA loans on houses? Loans from the SBA? And what keeps them from being able to vote? The honor system?

Point is... unless Obama decides to bite the bullet and send all 'illegal immigrants' back to where they came from, he's lying by saying we won't give them healthcare. Do you think he'll opt for being the president who goes down in history for deporting millions of illegals? Fat chance that's gonna happen. If they're allowed to stay here, they'll be given healthcare, no matter what O says. Or like I said before, they'll be dying in the streets.

Just to set the record straight, I'm for amnesty. I don't believe there is such a thing as an 'illegal' human being. Obama can't have it both ways... he's either got to send 'em back... or allow them to be covered by HC. Since he said they WON'T be covered, he needs to get those buses filled up and headed south. Or appint another Czar to go around the country and pick up brown carcasses.

 

[MaggieMae]

That agency has always been understaffed

Social Security is a government boondoggle with exorbitant salaries and benefits. They are MASSIVELY overstaffed. In fact, a lot of the Social Security management were hired before 1983, have their own pension plan, and DO NOT pay into Social Security. Nice gig huh? There are also millions of state workers, and climbing, from a few states that do not participate in Social Security. in fact, Social Security is SO great, these government workers created laws to prohibit their inclusion in the program.

Please provide links for your rather embellished statements.

 

[Sweet Willy]

The bill clearly states that illegals are barred. Simple enough.

Law enforcemnet all around the country has no clue about how to deal with illegals or even be sure who is who but somehow we should expect health care workers to tackle this task that NO ONE has demonstrated the capacity to do.

And of course, arguing that dishonest people will take advantage of something is always a valid argument for no one to have anything. ......what a bunch of nut jobs.

Exactly. Thank you. I was about to post that immigration reform is something separate which also must be dealt with, but you saved me the time. Also, the SSA needs to have more oversight over tracking fake numbers. The problem with the SSA has consistently been lack of manpower. That agency has always been understaffed (like some of the others where cutting corners means cutting the very people who could save money, and lives, in the long run--like the food inspection agency within the FDA). There is so much overlapping and so much waste and fraud throughout government, it's high time they start addressing the deficit problem from the bottom up.

The thing no politician wants to talk about and none of these butt heads all up in arms about illegals even has the brain power to consider is that no matter if it is a fake SS number or dead man's SS number, the illegals ARE PAYING SS. Illegals pay in to SS to the tune of 10 billion a year. Most of them can NEVER claim a dime of that money paid in under false numbers. The truth of the matter is that illegals are a wind fall of cash for SS BECUASE they pay in on false numbers that they can never collect on. They are a HUGE part of the reason why SS has not collapsed despite 25 years of dire predictions that it would. No one saw this huge windfall of cash for which they have NO OBLIGATION to ever pay out to the people who paid it in. If any of these nut jobs had paid as much attention to the actual Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act as they did to the meaningless and futile Blair Holt gun bill, they'd know that illegals pay a HUGE sum of money into the SS sysytem and they never get it back.

SS makes a NET GAIN on illegals. That's why you won't see us sending anyone home, anytime soon.

 

[VaYank5150]

The thing no politician wants to talk about and none of these butt heads all up in arms about illegals even has the brain power to consider is that no matter if it is a fake SS number or dead man's SS number, the illegals ARE PAYING SS. Illegals pay in to SS to the tune of 10 billion a year. Most of them can NEVER claim a dime of that money paid in under false numbers. The truth of the matter is that illegals are a wind fall of cash for SS BECUASE they pay in on false numbers that they can never collect on. They are a HUGE part of the reason why SS has not collapsed despite 25 years of dire predictions that it would. No one saw this huge windfall of cash for which they have NO OBLIGATION to ever pay out to the people who paid it in. If any of these nut jobs had paid as much attention to the actual Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act as they did to the meaningless and futile Blair Holt gun bill, they'd know that illegals pay a HUGE sum of money into the SS sysytem and they never get it back.

SS makes a NET GAIN on illegals. That's why you won't see us sending anyone home, anytime soon.

Awesome. Can you please start paying for MY portion of the taxes used to support these law breaking ILLEGAL ALIENS?

 

[Annie]

Why would you assume that, without that specific guidance, illegal immigrants would qualify for healthcare? Do illegals qualify for any other government program?

It's the lack of specific guidelines that opens the door:

There are many SPECIFIC GUIDELINES that will be developed. Why do you think most of it wouldn't even go into effect until 2013?

Did the Patriot Act have all the "guidelines" in it? Of course not. After it was passed, an entire new agency was developed and tens of thousands of "guidelines" established based upon that new law thereafter.

People already ***** about the shear size of the bill. If it contains all the "guidelines" it would be the size of the Internal Revenue Code (taking up floor to ceiling).

Uh, the specifics were there and were removed. Sheesh!

 

[VaYank5150]

The bill clearly states that illegals are barred. Simple enough.

Law enforcemnet all around the country has no clue about how to deal with illegals or even be sure who is who but somehow we should expect health care workers to tackle this task that NO ONE has demonstrated the capacity to do.

And of course, arguing that dishonest people will take advantage of something is always a valid argument for no one to have anything. ......what a bunch of nut jobs.

Exactly. Thank you. I was about to post that immigration reform is something separate which also must be dealt with, but you saved me the time. Also, the SSA needs to have more oversight over tracking fake numbers. The problem with the SSA has consistently been lack of manpower. That agency has always been understaffed (like some of the others where cutting corners means cutting the very people who could save money, and lives, in the long run--like the food inspection agency within the FDA). There is so much overlapping and so much waste and fraud throughout government, it's high time they start addressing the deficit problem from the bottom up.

The thing no politician wants to talk about and none of these butt heads all up in arms about illegals even has the brain power to consider is that no matter if it is a fake SS number or dead man's SS number, the illegals ARE PAYING SS. Illegals pay in to SS to the tune of 10 billion a year. Most of them can NEVER claim a dime of that money paid in under false numbers. The truth of the matter is that illegals are a wind fall of cash for SS BECUASE they pay in on false numbers that they can never collect on. They are a HUGE part of the reason why SS has not collapsed despite 25 years of dire predictions that it would. No one saw this huge windfall of cash for which they have NO OBLIGATION to ever pay out to the people who paid it in. If any of these nut jobs had paid as much attention to the actual Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act as they did to the meaningless and futile Blair Holt gun bill, they'd know that illegals pay a HUGE sum of money into the SS sysytem and they never get it back.

SS makes a NET GAIN on illegals. That's why you won't see us sending anyone home, anytime soon.

I assume you have SOMETHING to back up these outlandish claims about how good illegal aliens are for our couuntry?

 

[Vast LWC]

my eyes are wide open budrow.. you can write hr3200 til your herd of cows come home. the gov cannot control what illegals do, cannot stop them from coming cannot stop them from getting on the welfare dole, cannot stop them from getting social security, cannot stop them from stealing ID.. so what gives you the confidence that they can stop illegals from getting on the "public option" especially since the demoncwats voted down the Heller amendment. you are the second fool that's tried to tell us it's "written in the bill" big effen deal.. the gov. is a proven miserable failure.. look at california if you need more proof..

So you believe that an amendment needs to be put in place to stop people from committing fraud?

You don't think there's a law already on the books that pertains to that?

I guess you feel it's necessary to make this giant bill even longer by adding completely unecessary amendments?

 

[Smartmouthwoman]

Has anyone checked out the anti-Obama bumper stickers ad???? Some of them are hilarious.

Agreed - conservatives have ALWAYS had a higher degree of humor. Poor Dems are too insecure and thin-skinned. This forum gives us daily examples of that simple fact...

Many anti-Obama bumper stickers and avatars I've seen are copycats of the anti-Bush statements, like the "Stuck on Stupid" one someone uses as an avatar here. Or even the "Kool-Aid" references were used against Bush. But stealing is what Republicans do best, so....

Yeah, we learned president bashing from the Dems. The only trait we didn't pick up was that incessant whining... because y'all still own that one and NOBODY can whine better than Democrat -- even though you've finally gotten what you've always wanted! Better toughen up that skin... it's gonna be a l-o-n-g four years.

 

[Titanic Sailor]

You wanted links? Here you go:

Coalition to Preserve Retirement Security
PERSI  :. Public Employee Retirement System of Idaho
GAO-05-786T, Social Security: Coverage of Public Employees and Implications for Reform


I await your apology Maggie.

 

[veritas]

Obama didn't create illegals. The Republicans have long been in the business of encouraging more illegals to come here to support big business. But doctors don't generally discriminate, and should not and do not have police power, so handling the illegal problem by asking doctors to do it is not a genuine request. The Republicans can scream all they want but the illegal problem is a separate one to be addressed in different legislation. Why don't you get busy on that?

 

[Titanic Sailor]

Below is a list of non-federal public employee plans that do not participate in Social Security. A few plans are noted as "*Both;" they have some employees who do participate and some who do not. Florida is noteworthy as their teachers do not and the remainder of the plan's participants do. Alaska state employees and employees of some Alaska political subdivisions do not participate. Federal employees hired after 1983 participate in Social Security.

* Alaska PERS*
* Alaska Teachers
* California PERF*
* California Teachers
* Charlotte Firefighters
* Chicago Teachers
* Colorado Municipal
* Colorado State & School
* Connecticut Teachers
* DC Police & Fire
* DC Teachers Denver Schools
* Florida RS*
* Houston Firefighters
* Illinois Teachers
* Illinois Universities
* Kentucky Teachers
* Louisiana SERS
* Louisiana Teachers
* Maine Local*
* Maine State and Teacher
* Massachusetts SERS
* Massachusetts Teachers
* Minneapolis Teachers*
* Missouri Teachers
* Nevada Police Officer and Firefighter
* Nevada Regular Employees
* Ohio PERS Ohio Police & Fire
* Ohio School Employees
* Ohio Teachers
* San Francisco City & County*
* Texas Teachers

*Both

 

[Titanic Sailor]

SERS, PERF, and PERS refers to all public employees of that state, teachers, university employees, courts, cops, firefighters, etc.

 

[Vast LWC]

I can't believe anyone has the gall to call the most generous citizens on the planet greedy, and make excuses for a corrupt government. This is why the Syracuse study clearly reflected that conservatives are much more generous than liberals. Liberals don't grasp charity or helping others, they need a corrupt government to help them feel somewhat "human".

I've seen a whole lot of talk about that "study", I'd like to see the methodolgy behind it.

Does it include very rich folks using so-called "Charities" for tax shelters, as they inevitably do?

Does it subtract the amount each of these so-called philanthropists gets back in their tax returns after donating their old clothes and things and then claiming the full value as a "donation"?

 

[Titanic Sailor]

In summary, Social Security does not cover about one-fourth of public
employees, for various historical reasons. As a result, these employees
do not pay Social Security taxes on earnings from their noncovered
jobs. Nevertheless, they can still be eligible for Social Security
benefits based on their spouses' or their own earnings in covered
employment. Currently, Social Security has two provisions to address
the resulting fairness issues. The Government Pension Offset (GPO)
affects spouse and survivor benefits, and the Windfall Elimination
Provision (WEP) affects retired worker benefits. Both provisions reduce
Social Security benefits for those who receive noncovered pension
benefits. However, the Social Security Administration (SSA) cannot
effectively and fairly apply these provisions because it does not have
access to complete and accurate information on receipt of such
noncovered pension benefits. Implementation of some of our
recommendations has improved the availability and tracking of key
information for federal retirees, which we estimate will save hundreds
of millions of dollars. However, Congressional action is still needed
to improve access to information on state and local government
pensions.

In recent years, various Social Security reform proposals that would
affect public employees have been offered. Some proposals specifically
address the GPO and the WEP and would either revise or eliminate them.
While we have not analyzed these proposals, we believe it is important
to consider both the costs and the fairness issues they raise. Still
other proposals would make coverage mandatory for all state and local
government employees. According to Social Security actuaries, doing so
for all newly hired state and local government employees would reduce
the 75-year actuarial deficit by about 11 percent. It could also
enhance inflation protection, pension portability, and dependent
benefits for the affected beneficiaries, in many cases. However, to
provide for the same level of retirement income, it could increase
costs for the state and local governments that would sponsor the plans.
Moreover, the GPO and the WEP would continue to apply for many years to
come, even though they would become obsolete in the long run.