Did Liberalism Cause Virginia Tech Shootings?

[NuclearWinter]

No it isn't, it's training. The animal instinct is to flee. The average human, not possessed of the requisite training, is going to panic, gun or not.

Maybe if you are an elk.

How many bears or tigers do you see fleeing from other animals?

So do you want to be the bear, or the elk? It's up to you.

(Even elks fight other animals from time to time).

 

[NuclearWinter]

I've experienced times when I was too afraid to breathe...for whatever reason. I consider breath to be a gift from God...but so is the ability to run like hell, if possible, when someone has a gun in your face...or do some fancy tap dancing and talk your way out of it...that would probably be my way. But, when a person has already decided to kill...they normally carry that plan out, even if it means either killing oneself afterwards, or being killed by the police. Thanks to spikes...I had a gun held on me once...honestly, I think the panic that set in (coupled with my ability to remain calm under tremendous pressure...yeah, I'm the one you want in a crisis)...KEPT me alive. I don't remember breathing deeply...I usually wait until after the crisis has been averted to do that. It's kind of hard to think of breathing when one is looking down the barrell of a loaded gun!!

It's even harder to breath right if you don't have a weapon yourself in that case. It can be done though but the whole point I am trying to make is that IF YOU HAVE A WEAPON, breath right, and then use it.

And if you don't think you have enough time to breath right, then just skip to the use it part.

 

[Gunny]

And how much reasoning would be involved for you Gunnyl when somebody decided they wanted to kill you and had already made their mind up about it? And what about in the event that they were pointing a gun at you with their finger pulling back the trigger...or running at you with a knife...?

How much reasoning is involved in a process like that? Me thinks it is the animal instinct of Human Beings that's what REALLY takes over in a situation like that.

IF one has not allowed idealism to replace natural instinct.

Then there's the fact many animals, to include man, freeze when confronted with a deadly threat. Only a highly trained, or very lucky individual is going to survive such a situation.

 

[Diuretic]

Maybe if you are an elk.

How many bears or tigers do you see fleeing from other animals?

So do you want to be the bear, or the elk? It's up to you.

(Even elks fight other animals from time to time).

Oh great an animal analogy, just what I needed. Listen, grasshopper, if I want a zen koan I'll go to Buddhists-R-Us.

Don't evade my point using a cutesy reference. I said, the average untrained person, gun or not, will panic in a situation where they are in dire danger of being shot. Humans need to be trained to appreciate the situation they are in and then to respond appropriately. It's why we train our military, we don't ask people when they come into a recruiting office if they're a carnivore or a vegetarian - we make them meat eaters (see how silly your analogy is?)

 

[Gunny]

Exactly.

Mind over matter folks.

There is almost NOTHING in Life that can stop you from breathing long and deeply in any situation. Unless of course you're already dead.

I believe that the Breath is the Sign of God within every single one of us. When the Breath goes, your Life goes with it.

So....learn how to control it. It's yours to control.

I am very well-trained in the correlation between between breathing and physical endeavor, to include physical endeavor under duress. That works out fine in a boxing ring, while firing on the range, lifting weights, etc.

I don't much like to discuss this topic, but ...ever been in a firefight?

Don't tell ME what it's like and how people react. I've got a little "ojt" on the topic, and one thing I can tell you for certain ....

Your theory may look good on paper, but it goes straight to shit the second that first round comes downrange. That's after years and years of repetitious training to react to just such a thing. Some panic and/or freeze, and some go through the motions of reacting as trained, but their actions are STILL way ahead of their minds.

 

[NuclearWinter]

I am very well-trained in the correlation between between breathing and physical endeavor, to include physical endeavor under duress. That works out fine in a boxing ring, while firing on the range, lifting weights, etc.

I don't much like to discuss this topic, but ...ever been in a firefight?

Don't tell ME what it's like and how people react. I've got a little "ojt" on the topic, and one thing I can tell you for certain ....

Your theory may look good on paper, but it goes straight to shit the second that first round comes downrange. That's after years and years of repetitious training to react to just such a thing. Some panic and/or freeze, and some go through the motions of reacting as trained, but their actions are STILL way ahead of their minds.

You're all over the map here.

I wasn't talking about a military situation. I was talking about the average citizen getting attacked.

And besides..if we were to go by your whole theory of "It's every person's animal instinct to flee", than what would that say for the soldiers in battle?

I don't believe you need to be a soldier to control yourself during a panick situation. Not at all.

 

[myth]

Oh great an animal analogy, just what I needed. Listen, grasshopper, if I want a zen koan I'll go to Buddhists-R-Us.

Don't evade my point using a cutesy reference. I said, the average untrained person, gun or not, will panic in a situation where they are in dire danger of being shot. Humans need to be trained to appreciate the situation they are in and then to respond appropriately. It's why we train our military, we don't ask people when they come into a recruiting office if they're a carnivore or a vegetarian - we make them meat eaters (see how silly your analogy is?)

I have to agree with your comment there diuretic (it pains me so...haha). It takes a certain kind of person NOT to panic when in a sitch like having a gun pulled on you. Hence, the whole flight/fight thingy...my first reaction, in order to survive, would be to RUN. Don't know exactly what I would do in the situation of others being around me (like, would I instinctively risk my life in order to save another human being that was a complete stranger?) Sadly, I believe that I probably would. Plus...back to the whole breathing thing...when I'm stressed/scared, I practically stop breathing...instincts I didn't even know I had kick in, and all I'm thinking of is surviving.

 

[Gunny]

You're all over the map here.

I wasn't talking about a military situation. I was talking about the average citizen getting attacked.

And besides..if we were to go by your whole theory of "It's every person's animal instinct to flee", than what would that say for the soldiers in battle?

I don't believe you need to be a soldier to control yourself during a panick situation. Not at all.

Speaking of "all over the map," I am not the one who said it was every person's animal instinct to flee.

Nor did I say that one had to be a soldier to control oneself during a panic situation.

My whole point was to take you out of your hypotheticals and speak from actual experience.

And I already answered your question in regard to "soldier's in battle," you just didn't catch it.

Bottom line ... you can theorize, train and whatever else you wish to do, but there is NO categorized, common response to fear among human beings, and you have no freakin' idea what you will do when the shit hits the fan.

 

[red states rule]

Gun control means never having to say I missed you

 

[Diuretic]

Gun control means never having to say I missed you

One day you're going to run out of bumper stickers and find yourself struck dumber.

 

[Diuretic]

I have to agree with your comment there diuretic (it pains me so...haha). It takes a certain kind of person NOT to panic when in a sitch like having a gun pulled on you. Hence, the whole flight/fight thingy...my first reaction, in order to survive, would be to RUN. Don't know exactly what I would do in the situation of others being around me (like, would I instinctively risk my life in order to save another human being that was a complete stranger?) Sadly, I believe that I probably would. Plus...back to the whole breathing thing...when I'm stressed/scared, I practically stop breathing...instincts I didn't even know I had kick in, and all I'm thinking of is surviving.

Nothing wrong with acting like a normal human being myth. I don't think it takes a certain kind of person to do anything, I think it's a matter of training and experience. Without it then yes, people react as you've described, I'd call that normal.

 

[red states rule]

One day you're going to run out of bumper stickers and find yourself struck dumber.

Glad to see I struck a nerve

 

[NuclearWinter]

Speaking of "all over the map," I am not the one who said it was every person's animal instinct to flee.

Nor did I say that one had to be a soldier to control oneself during a panic situation.

My whole point was to take you out of your hypotheticals and speak from actual experience.

And I already answered your question in regard to "soldier's in battle," you just didn't catch it.

Bottom line ... you can theorize, train and whatever else you wish to do, but there is NO categorized, common response to fear among human beings, and you have no freakin' idea what you will do when the shit hits the fan.

Tell you what Gun, I'll see if I can find some links to books on "Controlling the Breath" and "Harnessing it's energy" for you. There are plenty out there.

You asked me yesterday if I have ever been in a firefight. I haven't, but I have been shot at, and I would say I handled myself pretty well in that situation considering that the bullet went inches from my head and through the car. The only symptom I really experienced was that my ears were ringing and my hearing dropped about 50% for a few minutes. Maybe 10 or so.

Also....I did notice that I was breathing right. And not panicking. And that definately helped me think straight. Where as not breathing right causes your thoughts to be sporadic.

So yeah, even after an incident like that where I could have lost my life, I am still for the right to bear arms. Absolutely. Always will be. And it is people like me who the government will come up against when it comes to them trying to take away the American peope's guns. Because if there are others out there like myself, I would rather die than give up that right.

 

[Gunny]

Tell you what Gun, I'll see if I can find some links to books on "Controlling the Breath" and "Harnessing it's energy" for you. There are plenty out there.

I guess you missed the part where I said I was already quite educated on the topic. I have not disagreed with the concept you have put forward. I disagree with your believing it is some cure-all to panic and or fear.

You asked me yesterday if I have ever been in a firefight. I haven't, but I have been shot at, and I would say I handled myself pretty well in that situation considering that the bullet went inches from my head and through the car. The only symptom I really experienced was that my ears were ringing and my hearing dropped about 50% for a few minutes. Maybe 10 or so.

Also....I did notice that I was breathing right. And not panicking. And that definately helped me think straight. Where as not breathing right causes your thoughts to be sporadic.

And it happened so fast you didn't have time to be afraid. A random shot nearly hitting you in no way answers your scenario of facing someone holding a locked and cocked firearm on you.

So yeah, even after an incident like that where I could have lost my life, I am still for the right to bear arms. Absolutely. Always will be. And it is people like me who the government will come up against when it comes to them trying to take away the American peope's guns. Because if there are others out there like myself, I would rather die than give up that right.

Now you're off somewhere else. I have never once stated I am opposed to the right to bear arms. I happen to own quite a few firearms.

I'm not sure how that correlates with your breathing "cure-all."

 

[NuclearWinter]

Now you're off somewhere else. I have never once stated I am opposed to the right to bear arms. I happen to own quite a few firearms.

I'm not sure how that correlates with your breathing "cure-all."

Well, I guess it does and it doesn't...but here you go anyways dawg:


http://www.healingdao.com/ckf3.html - Mastering the Breath through the Chi.

http://www.care2.com/channels/solutions/bms/2053 - Healing yourself with your breath.

http://abel.hive.no/oj/musikk/trompet/exercise/breathing/book.pdf - The Hindu/Yogi science of the breath.

http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/ScienceOfBreath.pdf - Science of the breath.

http://www.breathing.com/articles/anxiety.htm - How to calm the nerves through the breath and to conquer anxiety.


PS - Glad to hear that you will fight some of the corrupt members of our government if they try to take away our right to bear arms.

I'm with you on this for real. I'm not playing around with this issue. I'll go to prison over it, and I'll die over it.

We lose our guns, they'll steamroll over us. Plain and simple.

The key is to fight BEFORE the guns are taken away from us. Not afterwards when we have no defense.

 

[Diuretic]

Glad to see I struck a nerve

Well you had to get lucky once at least, hammer the keyboard long enough and it'll happen.

 

[Gunny]

Well, I guess it does and it doesn't...but here you go anyways dawg:


http://www.healingdao.com/ckf3.html - Mastering the Breath through the Chi.

http://www.care2.com/channels/solutions/bms/2053 - Healing yourself with your breath.

http://abel.hive.no/oj/musikk/trompet/exercise/breathing/book.pdf - The Hindu/Yogi science of the breath.

http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/ScienceOfBreath.pdf - Science of the breath.

http://www.breathing.com/articles/anxiety.htm - How to calm the nerves through the breath and to conquer anxiety.


PS - Glad to hear that you will fight some of the corrupt members of our government if they try to take away our right to bear arms.

I'm with you on this for real. I'm not playing around with this issue. I'll go to prison over it, and I'll die over it.

We lose our guns, they'll steamroll over us. Plain and simple.

The key is to fight BEFORE the guns are taken away from us. Not afterwards when we have no defense.

I already understand breathing through chi. I have in my day been a traditional martial artist, kickboxer, runner, swimmer, weightlifter and am an avid shooter. I also at one time was license to SCUBA dive. All require mastery of breathing.

And fighting does not always mean Waco II. The most dangerous and powerful weapon man posesses is between his ears. It's just that some people get the .22 caliber.

 

[red states rule]

Well you had to get lucky once at least, hammer the keyboard long enough and it'll happen.

More then luck judging from all the liberal love an tolerance I have tapped into

 

[Diuretic]

More then luck judging from all the liberal love an tolerance I have tapped into

Tolerance means putting up with you, not saying we love you

 

[red states rule]

Tolerance means putting up with you, not saying we love you

and I thought libs were the party of acceptance of other viewes and opinions