Dick Cheney

[WillowTree]

Read post #516...you'll get your education.

The fact that he was still able to receive a donor heart after surviving five heart attacks shows he must have been in excellent health

DON'T THEY KNOW?????

Hospitals have traditionally set 65 as the upper limit for heart transplant.

Assuming that Cheney's kidneys and other organ systems were working properly at the time of the transplant

ASSUMING????

How did he get to the top of the (wait) list? There are a lot of things doctors and hospitals can do to get a patient to the top of the list," said Dr. Eric Topol of Scripps Clinic Torrey Pines in California.

YEA, HOW DID HE GET TO THE TOP OF THE (WAIT) LIST???? THAT'S ALL I'M ASKING!!!!

IS THIS WHAT YOU CALL AN EDUCATION??? DID YOU READ THIS AT ALL???? WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE????

are we witnessing a Dean meltdown?....

Isn't it awesome?

 

[daveman]

The donor didn't die in a hunting accident, did he? Libs would have a field day with that.

Great. Now they're gonna start claiming that, too.

Look, can we just stop feeding the leftwing lie machine?

It was a beat them to the punch kind of thing, but I wouldn't be surprized if Bill Maher picks it up. Then I can lay a copyright suit on his ass.

Say, has Jones brought up case law yet that proves you couldn't sue?

 

[daveman]

if you find he did bump someone.....what then?......does he then become a dirtbag?....just asking.....

It wasn't Cheney's decision, was it?

i dont know......was it?.....

It can't be.

 

[Warrior102]

Dick Cheney - a GREAT American. No doubt.

 

[Emma]

Doesn't matter Dean. Different intitutions have different standards. There is no overarching legal authority, and the cut-off is set at the age of 69 for getting on the list. Because of that transplants rarely go into age 71 but one must assume they could.

It is bad policy to limit heart transplants to less than 71. There are many very healthy people who have paid into their Medicare since 1965 and if they meet standards they should not be denied. To do so is the very epitomy of the work product of death panels.

Age IS a consideration, but it's not the ONLY consideration. The transplant center where he received this heart did NOT list any maximum age in their criteria. Transplant lists are always in flux; people move up and down and when an organ comes available, it's not always the people on top who get the transplant. Please read the links I provided. That explains in exquisite detail their protocols and how organs are allocated. It's not like taking a number at the local deli, first come, first serve.

 

[Katzndogz]

There used to be a cut off of age 55 for transplants. Now the only criteria is good health because people are healthy much longer in their lives. Dick Cheney waited almost twice as long for a heart as anyone ever has, He waited 20 months before "he got to the top of the list".

What libs want is the power to deny health care or transplants to people they deem politically worthy. If it had been five years, or ten years, pick a number, once he got to the top of the list, he would be at the top of the list and libs would still be screaming that he got to the top of the list.

Cheney got to the top of the list by being on the list for 20 months and having people leapfrog over him.

 

[Emma]

There used to be a cut off of age 55 for transplants. Now the only criteria is good health because people are healthy much longer in their lives. Dick Cheney waited almost twice as long for a heart as anyone ever has, He waited 20 months before "he got to the top of the list".

What libs want is the power to deny health care or transplants to people they deem politically worthy. If it had been five years, or ten years, pick a number, once he got to the top of the list, he would be at the top of the list and libs would still be screaming that he got to the top of the list.

Cheney got to the top of the list by being on the list for 20 months and having people leapfrog over him.

That's not how it works. Somewhere on the ONUS site the wait time is listed as (usually) 1 to 3 years, so his time on the list was a little more than half that.

 

[Katzndogz]

There used to be a cut off of age 55 for transplants. Now the only criteria is good health because people are healthy much longer in their lives. Dick Cheney waited almost twice as long for a heart as anyone ever has, He waited 20 months before "he got to the top of the list".

What libs want is the power to deny health care or transplants to people they deem politically worthy. If it had been five years, or ten years, pick a number, once he got to the top of the list, he would be at the top of the list and libs would still be screaming that he got to the top of the list.

Cheney got to the top of the list by being on the list for 20 months and having people leapfrog over him.

That's not how it works. Somewhere on the ONUS site the wait time is listed as (usually) 1 to 3 years, so his time on the list was a little more than half that.

Dick Cheney Surgery: 7 Essential Facts about Heart Transplants - The Daily Beast

The amount of time spent on the waiting list varies, but the average wait time is six months to one year. Cheney, with a 20-month wait, actually waited much longer than average.

 

[Rinata]

This is Larry Hagman all over again.. wasting organs on old people who could fall dead tomorrow while younger people dont get treatment.. the difference, the older people have millions to pay for organs.

A 71 year old should never ever get an organ transplant. It is economically stupid, morally repulsive and goes against any medical logic.

Organs are a very rare commodity in most societies and should be given to those that have the best chance of a long life, and no one can tell me that giving it to a 71 year old with a history of health problems is the best chance that this organ had to prolong some ones life for a long time.

Cheney is at risk from a multiple life ending issues due to his age and his medical history, so he could fall dead tomorrow because of a stroke, blood clot and so on..

This organ was clearly wasted in a corrupt system where money can get you ahead of others... pathetic.

Again: The donor heart may have been a tissue match only for Cheney.

But don't let that get in the way of your hategasm.

You are assuming the hategasm group is literate enough to have read several of the posts that expressed this possibility, even probability. But they hate Cheney so much that even if he was the only person on the planet who could have received that particular heart, they would not have wanted him to have it and would have continued their litany that 'he took it away from somebody more deserving' which of course is absurd and also would have been illegal. I simply don't understand that depth of hatred or that kind of thinking, but it obviously exists.

It exists with our president. More than any other politician I can think of. Or doesn't that count??? I don't believe in that kind of hate myself. I think it makes people ugly inside. But there are just as many, if not more, crazy Republicans as there are crazy Democrats.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

Most hospitals will not put you on a heart list after age 60.


Its fact folks.

There are more who need a heart than there are hearts.

They try to give them to the youngest and healthiest people who need one.

SOMEONE died because a 72 year old man with a long history of being sick got this heart.

Since you are stating this as a definite fact, please provide the name of the person that died.

TIA

 

[Emma]

According to the data I found, it varies widely depending upon a number of factors (including age). It could be less than what I saw quoted, if I read that in a media report rather than on this website (below). I saw that while I was hunting down the policies and protocols, so I feel I was on either UNOS or UNET when I did. If I'm able to find it again listed on UNOS, I'll post the link.

UNOS

Here you can find data on the center where Mr. Cheney had his surgery:

http://optn.transplant.hrsa.gov/organDatasource/centerDataSelect.asp

OPTN: Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network

They have a pretty good 5 year survival rate for patients over 65.

 

[Foxfyre]

Again: The donor heart may have been a tissue match only for Cheney.

But don't let that get in the way of your hategasm.

You are assuming the hategasm group is literate enough to have read several of the posts that expressed this possibility, even probability. But they hate Cheney so much that even if he was the only person on the planet who could have received that particular heart, they would not have wanted him to have it and would have continued their litany that 'he took it away from somebody more deserving' which of course is absurd and also would have been illegal. I simply don't understand that depth of hatred or that kind of thinking, but it obviously exists.

It exists with our president. More than any other politician I can think of. Or doesn't that count??? I don't believe in that kind of hate myself. I think it makes people ugly inside. But there are just as many, if not more, crazy Republicans as there are crazy Democrats.

I fully agree that there are trolls, idiots, and numbnuts who are right of center as well as left of center. Anybody who has been indocrintated with their ideology rather than acquiring it through education and thoughtful consideration is likely to say and/or do really stupid things as they attempt to defend it. And we agree that the kind of hatred we see directed toward VP Cheney withers people inside and makes them ugly.

While he has been targeted with much criticism, as all Presidents are, I disagree that President Obama has suffered the unrelenting hatred that some of his predecessors have. Because he's your guy, it might feel that way.

But I have NEVER in my ever-increasing long life seen the kind of unrelenting and nonstop hatred that was heaped on President Bush and Vice President Cheney. Even now the vitriol surfaces almost every day on this message board and I presume on most or all others. You have seen some of the truly hateful (and wrong if not flat out dishonest) characterizations heaped on Vice President Cheney purely because he was GWB's veep. I also remember tuning into C-Span night after night during the Reagan Administration and hearing Henry Gonzales and others spewing pure venom and ridiculous accusations at President Reagan and George H.W. Bush for hours in special orders in the House.

President Obama has enjoyed a mostly friendly press which President GW Bush did not. He has not had to endure the non stop, ever present , and hate spewing war protesters that organized not that long after the invasion of Iraq. Apparently those same protesters now mostly accept the war as okay now that Obama is running it.

As for VP Cheney's heart transplant:

Do famous or wealthy people get transplants quicker? NO! Organ recipients are chosen based upon several criteria including geographical location, length of time on the waiting list, medical urgency, and tissue matching. An individual's wealth and social status are never considered when determining who receives a lifesaving organ transplant. A national computerized matching system is used to place available organs with potential recipients. National policies govern the sharing of organs in the United States to ensure all patients fair and equal access to transplantation. "Who gets the organ" is not a problem of "equitability", it is an issue of "availability". If everyone donated, there would be enough organs for all transplant recipients - EVERYONE would receive life and that is the most equitable of all.'
https://www.donatelifetn.org/Misconceptions.aspx

 

[Emma]

Not only can a transplant center lose its status if it plays games and breaks protocol, the hospital system can lose their Medicare accreditation.

Trust me. NO hospital will risk that.

 

[Rinata]

You are assuming the hategasm group is literate enough to have read several of the posts that expressed this possibility, even probability. But they hate Cheney so much that even if he was the only person on the planet who could have received that particular heart, they would not have wanted him to have it and would have continued their litany that 'he took it away from somebody more deserving' which of course is absurd and also would have been illegal. I simply don't understand that depth of hatred or that kind of thinking, but it obviously exists.

It exists with our president. More than any other politician I can think of. Or doesn't that count??? I don't believe in that kind of hate myself. I think it makes people ugly inside. But there are just as many, if not more, crazy Republicans as there are crazy Democrats.

I fully agree that there are trolls, idiots, and numbnuts who are right of center as well as left of center. Anybody who has been indocrintated with their ideology rather than acquiring it through education and thoughtful consideration is likely to say and/or do really stupid things as they attempt to defend it. And we agree that the kind of hatred we see directed toward VP Cheney withers people inside and makes them ugly.

While he has been targeted with much criticism, as all Presidents are, I disagree that President Obama has suffered the unrelenting hatred that some of his predecessors have. Because he's your guy, it might feel that way.

But I have NEVER in my ever-increasing long life seen the kind of unrelenting and nonstop hatred that was heaped on President Bush and Vice President Cheney. Even now the vitriol surfaces almost every day on this message board and I presume on most or all others. You have seen some of the truly hateful (and wrong if not flat out dishonest) characterizations heaped on Vice President Cheney purely because he was GWB's veep. I also remember tuning into C-Span night after night during the Reagan Administration and hearing Henry Gonzales and others spewing pure venom and ridiculous accusations at President Reagan and George H.W. Bush for hours in special orders in the House.

President Obama has enjoyed a mostly friendly press which President GW Bush did not. He has not had to endure the non stop, ever present , and hate spewing war protesters that organized not that long after the invasion of Iraq. Apparently those same protesters now mostly accept the war as okay now that Obama is running it.

As for VP Cheney's heart transplant:

Do famous or wealthy people get transplants quicker? NO! Organ recipients are chosen based upon several criteria including geographical location, length of time on the waiting list, medical urgency, and tissue matching. An individual's wealth and social status are never considered when determining who receives a lifesaving organ transplant. A national computerized matching system is used to place available organs with potential recipients. National policies govern the sharing of organs in the United States to ensure all patients fair and equal access to transplantation. "Who gets the organ" is not a problem of "equitability", it is an issue of "availability". If everyone donated, there would be enough organs for all transplant recipients - EVERYONE would receive life and that is the most equitable of all.'
https://www.donatelifetn.org/Misconceptions.aspx

I think that Bill Clinton, and especially President Obama, have been treated abominably by the right wing. Much more so than Bush 43 or Cheney were treated by the left. And I am sure we will never agree on that point.

In any case, I am really against wishing ill will on anybody. Wishing someone bad health or death is especially uncool. It needs to stop. I don't like the way it makes us look to others, like we are a bunch of uncivilized animals.

 

[rdean]

Doesn't matter Dean. Different intitutions have different standards. There is no overarching legal authority, and the cut-off is set at the age of 69 for getting on the list. Because of that transplants rarely go into age 71 but one must assume they could.

It is bad policy to limit heart transplants to less than 71. There are many very healthy people who have paid into their Medicare since 1965 and if they meet standards they should not be denied. To do so is the very epitomy of the work product of death panels.

The only political party that I of which supports "death panels" are the Republicans. Seriously. Let him die?

Death Panels in Arizona
Arizona Legislature Reneges on Promises to Organ Donation Waiting List

Death Panels in Arizona

There the Republican-controlled legislature with the approval of GOP Governor Jan “there are headless bodies turning up all over our desert” Brewer has told 98 people waiting for transplants that they must die.

----------------------------------------------

I can't make this shit up. I mean I could, but I don't have to. Republicans are for death panels. The only things they are for bring death.

From your link:

Those 98, who are either poor or uninsurable by private insurance due to pre-existing conditions, need bone marrow, lung, heart, and other forms of transplants. They were told by the state’s Medicaid program—Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System, or AHCCCS—that they qualified for coverage. But, this October 1, AHCCCS said it could not in fact pay for their transplants. Facing a billion-dollar-plus budget deficit, the Arizona legislature cut out all state funding for transplantation retroactively!

Whether federal or state (and in this case Medicaid] here will always be budgetary shortfalls. But when the IPAD declares any treatment too expensive or unavailable because of age (a line you want to draw) there won't be another state with more lenient benefits to flee to, and that is the nub of the problem with Obamacare.

It's why the mandate. A Republican idea to pay for the insurance.

But to have transplants available for only the rich and powerful really is class warfare. Something Republicans completely agree with. Cheney is rich, therefore, his life has more value.

 

[Emma]

Seriously, rdean, that is not what happened here.

People who try to make the case that Mr. Cheney received preferential treatment or somehow bought this heart are only serving to denigrate a system that goes to extraordinary lengths to ensure organs are fairly allocated.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Has it?

Oh you mean benefits that are pushed and forced on the individual by the gov't as "earned" benefits from work

Thank god the gov't has a revenue surplus with him from all the money he has had
to pay them over the years

With Cheney having five heart attacks, trust me, there was no surplus from his medical care.

Cheney has government healthcare just like millions of federal employees. It is not free, he has to pay into it. The point is that Cheney is fortunate that he has a health insurance policy that can cover a million dollar procedure for a 71 year old man. Many Americans do not.

That's another thing, if Cheney were any ordinary joe schmoe, he would have been kicked off of his insurance coverage after the second heart attack or so. Does he still have insurance?

8 years as the VP Sarah......i dont think Cheney will be lacking for medical care....just sayin....

 

[Douger]

Richard Hammed Cheney.Thos Pali's are good hearted people !
US: Haredi man sold Israeli organs - Israel News, Ynetnews

 

[Douger]

It's just business.
Rabbi Caught in New Jersey Corruption Sting Called Himself Kidney 'Matchmaker' | Fox News

 

[Harry Dresden]

Proof once again that some people will believe anything.

Doctors should have let him die on the table. Would have done the world a favor. IMO.
But there is still hope he could die soon. I will keep my fingers crossed.

And what have you done for society? Posted mindless hate on the internet?

Yeah, we're all better off for that, aren't we?

Daveman,

You might want to take a look in the mirror. I am thinking that the world is not a better place for your over 28,000 posts on this board, many of which engaged in petty name calling.

DAVE?.......what did i tell you about calling people Petty names?....... i said call them Major names.....you Dumbass !.......