DeVos saves money by sending back 10 mil worth of Grant Apps

[OldLady]

By wanting students to shit right?
What kind of precedent do you want to set for our youth? Be as irresponsible as you want and the government will wipe your ass?

They are being nitpicky by denying grants that are responsible for helping thousands of kids, over spacing errors. What students are shitting? who needs help wiping? Usually you are more put together than such a response.

"do shit right" sorry
If they cant even turn in an application correctly, why in the hell should they get special treatment? They are obviously stupid or don't care.

did you read the article and see the mistakes they were 'dinged' for?
I could see if the whole grant was typed space-and-a-half, or had too narrow margins or not the right font. But an insert graphics box?

Doesn't matter to me. Kids want help but don't want to do it right then screw em. Try again next year

Its not the kids! Its the administrations that are applying for the grants, which they've done successfully for a very long time. The Devos admin is being overly picky of technicalities like spacing margins, and denying these grants. Petty, and only hurting our kids.

I just read through the instructions for applying, and I can see why they set these rules--they are not going to read more than 65 pages, and people would try to sneak in 68 pages by using a smaller font, narrower margins or 1 1/2 spacing. They want the grants to compete on an equal footing. I couldn't find how many apps were rejected last year for similar formatting problems; maybe it happens every year to a similar # of grant writers. This year it just happened to be one of our UMaine colleges that got the shaft, so it was on the front page this morning. The media is definitely out for blood with this administration, so perhaps they are suddenly announcing a problem that happens every year.
BUT I STILL THINK IT'S PETTY. The mistake in not converting the text in the graphics box from 1 1/2 spacing to double spacing would not have made the grant document longer and the Dept. of Ed could certainly allow a resubmission within a short time for such minor formatting errors. It would take all of five minutes to fix.

 

[OldLady]

I don't know Marty--this article was by the Government in 2016. Seems to be current and still showing college education does significantly boost income over a lifetime.

It's missing the one critical item, underemployment. and considering it isn't broken down by age or at least years experience, I think its too much amalgamated data to truly come away with a valid comparison.

If underemployment were factored in, it would only make median weekly earnings higher, showing an even more dramatic increase in earnings with post secondary education.

Again, to me the data is to wide a set for practical analysis, and what needs to be divided out is the ages of the people in question.

What would break down by age show, do you think?

it would show how much a degree helps people currently, without including all those people from back in the day when degrees were less common, and the marketplace didn't demand it for as many jobs.

Do you believe it is no longer advisable to get post secondary education, Marty?

 

[Aries]

It's missing the one critical item, underemployment. and considering it isn't broken down by age or at least years experience, I think its too much amalgamated data to truly come away with a valid comparison.

If underemployment were factored in, it would only make median weekly earnings higher, showing an even more dramatic increase in earnings with post secondary education.

Again, to me the data is to wide a set for practical analysis, and what needs to be divided out is the ages of the people in question.

What would break down by age show, do you think?

it would show how much a degree helps people currently, without including all those people from back in the day when degrees were less common, and the marketplace didn't demand it for as many jobs.

Do you believe it is no longer advisable to get post secondary education, Marty?

As someone who does hiring, I say- don't listen to marty, GET THAT DEGREE!

 

[martybegan]

It's missing the one critical item, underemployment. and considering it isn't broken down by age or at least years experience, I think its too much amalgamated data to truly come away with a valid comparison.

If underemployment were factored in, it would only make median weekly earnings higher, showing an even more dramatic increase in earnings with post secondary education.

Again, to me the data is to wide a set for practical analysis, and what needs to be divided out is the ages of the people in question.

What would break down by age show, do you think?

it would show how much a degree helps people currently, without including all those people from back in the day when degrees were less common, and the marketplace didn't demand it for as many jobs.

Do you believe it is no longer advisable to get post secondary education, Marty?

I believe its only advisable for degrees that lead to specific forms of employment. I also believe we are sending too many kids to college who have no business being there because we denigrate working trades. Post-high school vocational schools need to make a come back.

This is doubled by the rising cost of degrees, which if they led to a well paying job would be one thing, but now if a person can't get that art museum gig with that art history major, or that doctoral program invite with that women's studies degree, what else are they qualified for?

I left school with $20k of my own debt, and $30 of my parent's debt, which ended with a Chemical Engineering Master's degree. My starting pay was $40k in 1999, which I have elevated to just below $130k 18 years later. If that is what you can expect from a secondary degree, I'm all for it. But if all it gets you is a barista's or some other interchangeable service industry job, is it really worth it?

 

[martybegan]

If underemployment were factored in, it would only make median weekly earnings higher, showing an even more dramatic increase in earnings with post secondary education.

Again, to me the data is to wide a set for practical analysis, and what needs to be divided out is the ages of the people in question.

What would break down by age show, do you think?

it would show how much a degree helps people currently, without including all those people from back in the day when degrees were less common, and the marketplace didn't demand it for as many jobs.

Do you believe it is no longer advisable to get post secondary education, Marty?

As someone who does hiring, I say- don't listen to marty, GET THAT DEGREE!

What do you hire for?

 

[Eaglewings]

I guess this is how the Dept. of Ed plans on cutting back their budget--by willy-nilly rejecting grant applications for minor formatting problems without even reading them.

Nice job, DeVos. Is this part of the new, improved Trump plan to remove silly regulations that gum up government agencies?

For the want of double spacing in a small section of a 65-page grant application, 109 low-income high-school students will be cut off from a program at Wittenberg University that has been providing them with tutoring and counseling to prepare them for college. And they’re not alone. Over the past few weeks at least 40 colleges and organizations with similar Upward Bound programs have also had their grant applications summarily rejected by the U.S. Department of Education for running afoul of rules on mandatory double-spacing rules, use of the wrong font, or other minor technical glitches.
Dozens of Colleges’ Upward Bound Applications Are Denied for Failing to Dot Every I

Univ. of Maine at Presque Isle was also affected; it is one of the best programs for promoting higher education that we have. This is ridiculous.

If they're too stupid to follow the application instructions, then they are also too stupid to get tax payer deficit money.

Dep. of Edu is being nitpicky. Damaging no one but the American citizens.

By wanting students to shit right?
What kind of precedent do you want to set for our youth? Be as irresponsible as you want and the government will wipe your ass?

Bullshit....

 

[OldLady]

If underemployment were factored in, it would only make median weekly earnings higher, showing an even more dramatic increase in earnings with post secondary education.

Again, to me the data is to wide a set for practical analysis, and what needs to be divided out is the ages of the people in question.

What would break down by age show, do you think?

it would show how much a degree helps people currently, without including all those people from back in the day when degrees were less common, and the marketplace didn't demand it for as many jobs.

Do you believe it is no longer advisable to get post secondary education, Marty?

I believe its only advisable for degrees that lead to specific forms of employment. I also believe we are sending too many kids to college who have no business being there because we denigrate working trades. Post-high school vocational schools need to make a come back.

This is doubled by the rising cost of degrees, which if they led to a well paying job would be one thing, but now if a person can't get that art museum gig with that art history major, or that doctoral program invite with that women's studies degree, what else are they qualified for?

I left school with $20k of my own debt, and $30 of my parent's debt, which ended with a Chemical Engineering Master's degree. My starting pay was $40k in 1999, which I have elevated to just below $130k 18 years later. If that is what you can expect from a secondary degree, I'm all for it. But if all it gets you is a barista's or some other interchangeable service industry job, is it really worth it?

No, it's not worth it. Since more than half the people with college degrees are working OUTSIDE their field of study, though, I think a lot of employers are just looking for a degree in something. Charles Krauthammer has a degree in psychology--or is it psychiatry? Anyway, sometimes you don't HAVE to go into a specific "trade" in college and still do well.
What's puzzling me is why it is any skin off your nose if people are working as barista's instead of in some fanstastic job as a French literary major?
I agree with you though that there are more people being encouraged to get degrees than should be. College is for the scholarly. Trade schools are for the practical and those gifted in doing with their hands. High school should be plenty for a lot of the jobs we do.

 

[Eaglewings]

If underemployment were factored in, it would only make median weekly earnings higher, showing an even more dramatic increase in earnings with post secondary education.

Again, to me the data is to wide a set for practical analysis, and what needs to be divided out is the ages of the people in question.

What would break down by age show, do you think?

it would show how much a degree helps people currently, without including all those people from back in the day when degrees were less common, and the marketplace didn't demand it for as many jobs.

Do you believe it is no longer advisable to get post secondary education, Marty?

I believe its only advisable for degrees that lead to specific forms of employment. I also believe we are sending too many kids to college who have no business being there because we denigrate working trades. Post-high school vocational schools need to make a come back.

This is doubled by the rising cost of degrees, which if they led to a well paying job would be one thing, but now if a person can't get that art museum gig with that art history major, or that doctoral program invite with that women's studies degree, what else are they qualified for?

I left school with $20k of my own debt, and $30 of my parent's debt, which ended with a Chemical Engineering Master's degree. My starting pay was $40k in 1999, which I have elevated to just below $130k 18 years later. If that is what you can expect from a secondary degree, I'm all for it. But if all it gets you is a barista's or some other interchangeable service industry job, is it really worth it?

You had a chance to be educated as an engineer ,and by the looks of it your bills were paid off..

Why should others be able to do that with out being debt their who life.?

 

[TNHarley]

I guess this is how the Dept. of Ed plans on cutting back their budget--by willy-nilly rejecting grant applications for minor formatting problems without even reading them.

Nice job, DeVos. Is this part of the new, improved Trump plan to remove silly regulations that gum up government agencies?

For the want of double spacing in a small section of a 65-page grant application, 109 low-income high-school students will be cut off from a program at Wittenberg University that has been providing them with tutoring and counseling to prepare them for college. And they’re not alone. Over the past few weeks at least 40 colleges and organizations with similar Upward Bound programs have also had their grant applications summarily rejected by the U.S. Department of Education for running afoul of rules on mandatory double-spacing rules, use of the wrong font, or other minor technical glitches.
Dozens of Colleges’ Upward Bound Applications Are Denied for Failing to Dot Every I

Univ. of Maine at Presque Isle was also affected; it is one of the best programs for promoting higher education that we have. This is ridiculous.

If they're too stupid to follow the application instructions, then they are also too stupid to get tax payer deficit money.

Dep. of Edu is being nitpicky. Damaging no one but the American citizens.

By wanting students to shit right?
What kind of precedent do you want to set for our youth? Be as irresponsible as you want and the government will wipe your ass?

Bullshit....

So the opposite actually happens when you give people breaks for not doing shit right? Lol ok