Deven Guilford killed by police - an indepth investigation

[bucs90]

The cop said he didnt have his brights on.

Then later said IF the kid had been nicer, the cop wouldve told the truth that hes gotten the same complaint by 3 other people. But since the kid had eyes and saw the lights and told the truth now he's in trouble.

All the kid had to do was let himself get blinded by the lights and then say sorry, I broke the law and I"M the one who blinded you, sir. I was mistaken

Cop didn't have brights on. That model Ford has lights that are a little brighter than past models. Many cars do now. Especially the LED style lights.


"Flashing" brights are what's illegal. The sudden brightening of lights...which doesn't allow adjustment by oncoming drivers. That's why it's illegal.

The bolded is false and is covered in the video it is unlawful to have lights blinding other drivers. A sudden blinding or a gradual blinding isnt safe and thats why its against the law in Michigan.

So the level of brightness that is unlawful is arbitrary...and the government can pick and choose what's illegal? We can argue that all day. And was it a petty stop? Yep.

But those happen thousands of times a day...and are almost always warnings.

You know what law is NOT debateable?
- On a lawful stop driver must produce I'D
- Cops can order you out of a car. SCOTUS Maryland v. Wilson
- Cops can detain you if you are uncooperative
- If you resist handcuffing...you'll be forced into cuffs
- If you attack the cop....his right to self defense kicks in...exact same way yours and mine does.


It's like dominoes. The 10th dominoe is what caused this video to be known. The cop tipped the first one. The driver had the ability to stop each successive dominoe. That's how this works. 99.999% of people are ok.

 

[ClosedCaption]

You provided incomplete stats because once again, the police dont keep track of all the incidents. You keep going in circles with that fact.

That's a laughable lie. So you're saying there are police departments who KILL people....and their official policy is to do no report, no documentation. Just shrug it off and go get coffee.

You're so delusional it's ridiculous.

I'd like you to show me ONE person killed by police....that wasn't reported and documented. Otherwise you're just making shit up. 1 incident of a cop killing someone in the course of official duty....which the cops didn't report. Just 1.

You keep doing this thing where you call names and laugh and believe you just made a point. The NYTIMES article shows that they dont keep those stats. You want to argue? Tell the NYTIMES you know better but you're going to need more than wackadoodle questions, name calling and smiley's

Surely they sourced their info right?? Should be easy. Just show me ONE incident of a police officer killing someone on official duty....and as an official policy the department then says fuck it and no report no photos no documentation.

Just ONE. If it's so common....it should be very very easy. Go ahead...make me look foolish. Just 1.

How many police shootings a year No one knows - The Washington Post

Criminal justice experts note that, while the federal government and national research groups keep scads of data and statistics— on topics ranging from how many people were victims of unprovoked shark attacks (53 in 2013) to the number of hogs and pigs living on farms in the U.S. (upwards of 64,000,000 according to 2010 numbers) — there is no reliable national data on how many people are shot by police officers each year.

 

[ClosedCaption]

So the level of brightness that is unlawful is arbitrary..

Before you move on, why did you state something that was clearly false as a fact?

 

[bucs90]

You provided incomplete stats because once again, the police dont keep track of all the incidents. You keep going in circles with that fact.

That's a laughable lie. So you're saying there are police departments who KILL people....and their official policy is to do no report, no documentation. Just shrug it off and go get coffee.

You're so delusional it's ridiculous.

I'd like you to show me ONE person killed by police....that wasn't reported and documented. Otherwise you're just making shit up. 1 incident of a cop killing someone in the course of official duty....which the cops didn't report. Just 1.

You keep doing this thing where you call names and laugh and believe you just made a point. The NYTIMES article shows that they dont keep those stats. You want to argue? Tell the NYTIMES you know better but you're going to need more than wackadoodle questions, name calling and smiley's

Surely they sourced their info right?? Should be easy. Just show me ONE incident of a police officer killing someone on official duty....and as an official policy the department then says fuck it and no report no photos no documentation.

Just ONE. If it's so common....it should be very very easy. Go ahead...make me look foolish. Just 1.

How many police shootings a year No one knows - The Washington Post

Criminal justice experts note that, while the federal government and national research groups keep scads of data and statistics— on topics ranging from how many people were victims of unprovoked shark attacks (53 in 2013) to the number of hogs and pigs living on farms in the U.S. (upwards of 64,000,000 according to 2010 numbers) — there is no reliable national data on how many people are shot by police officers each year.

AH....so it's not that "police dont report it" as you claim. It's that the Feds don't specifically track it.

Know why? Because Feds view cop shootings that are unjustified...simply as murder. They are tracked. Under the "murder" category.

So why don't Feds specifically track how many murders are committed by cops? Same reason they don't track it for lawyers or cab drivers or grocery clerks.


So....the gripe that they aren't "reported" is a lie.
The gripe that they aren't tracked...also a lie.

They are simply not labeled by occupation of the offender. Which is what you're really mad at...because it would help you smear cops.

 

[bucs90]

So the level of brightness that is unlawful is arbitrary..

Before you move on, why did you state something that was clearly false as a fact?

Easy. I didn't watch the whole video. I watched only the actual body cam footage. That narrator was probably as much a moron as you. In the states I've lived in...it's the act of flashing the brights or failing to lower them....not the actual lumens brightness...which regulates it.

But as I said...that was dominoe 1 of 10. The driver had the power to stop it after each dominoe....but he didnt. He kept acting different than 99.99999% of people act when stopped.

 

[ClosedCaption]

You provided incomplete stats because once again, the police dont keep track of all the incidents. You keep going in circles with that fact.

That's a laughable lie. So you're saying there are police departments who KILL people....and their official policy is to do no report, no documentation. Just shrug it off and go get coffee.

You're so delusional it's ridiculous.

I'd like you to show me ONE person killed by police....that wasn't reported and documented. Otherwise you're just making shit up. 1 incident of a cop killing someone in the course of official duty....which the cops didn't report. Just 1.

You keep doing this thing where you call names and laugh and believe you just made a point. The NYTIMES article shows that they dont keep those stats. You want to argue? Tell the NYTIMES you know better but you're going to need more than wackadoodle questions, name calling and smiley's

Surely they sourced their info right?? Should be easy. Just show me ONE incident of a police officer killing someone on official duty....and as an official policy the department then says fuck it and no report no photos no documentation.

Just ONE. If it's so common....it should be very very easy. Go ahead...make me look foolish. Just 1.

How many police shootings a year No one knows - The Washington Post

Criminal justice experts note that, while the federal government and national research groups keep scads of data and statistics— on topics ranging from how many people were victims of unprovoked shark attacks (53 in 2013) to the number of hogs and pigs living on farms in the U.S. (upwards of 64,000,000 according to 2010 numbers) — there is no reliable national data on how many people are shot by police officers each year.

AH....so it's not that "police dont report it" as you claim. It's that the Feds don't specifically track it.

Know why? Because Feds view cop shootings that are unjustified...simply as murder. They are tracked. Under the "murder" category.

So why don't Feds specifically track how many murders are committed by cops? Same reason they don't track it for lawyers or cab drivers or grocery clerks.


So....the gripe that they aren't "reported" is a lie.
The gripe that they aren't tracked...also a lie.

They are simply not labeled by occupation of the offender. Which is what you're really mad at...because it would help you smear cops.

Officials with the Justice Department keep no comprehensive database or record of police shootings, instead allowing the nation’s more than 17,000 law enforcement agencies to self-report officer-involved shootings as part of the FBI’s annual data on “justifiable homicides” by law enforcement.

That number – which only includes self-reported information from about 750 law enforcement agencies – hovers around 400 “justifiable homicides” by police officers each year. The DOJ’s Bureau of Justice Statistics also tracks “arrest-related deaths.” But the department stopped releasing those numbers after 2009, because, like the FBI data, they were widely regarded as unreliable.

 

[ClosedCaption]

So the level of brightness that is unlawful is arbitrary..

Before you move on, why did you state something that was clearly false as a fact?

Easy. I didn't watch the whole video. I watched only the actual body cam footage. That narrator was probably as much a moron as you. In the states I've lived in...it's the act of flashing the brights or failing to lower them....not the actual lumens brightness...which regulates it.

But as I said...that was dominoe 1 of 10. The driver had the power to stop it after each dominoe....but he didnt. He kept acting different than 99.99999% of people act when stopped.

So you're going with ignorance as a reason for your outright lies?

 

[bucs90]

So the level of brightness that is unlawful is arbitrary..

Before you move on, why did you state something that was clearly false as a fact?

Easy. I didn't watch the whole video. I watched only the actual body cam footage. That narrator was probably as much a moron as you. In the states I've lived in...it's the act of flashing the brights or failing to lower them....not the actual lumens brightness...which regulates it.

But as I said...that was dominoe 1 of 10. The driver had the power to stop it after each dominoe....but he didnt. He kept acting different than 99.99999% of people act when stopped.

So you're going with ignorance as a reason for your outright lies?

If being non-ignorant means having to listen to morons like you....vs just watching the raw body cam....sure. Body Cam doesn't lie or exaggerate.

 

[chikenwing]

So the level of brightness that is unlawful is arbitrary..

Before you move on, why did you state something that was clearly false as a fact?

Easy. I didn't watch the whole video. I watched only the actual body cam footage. That narrator was probably as much a moron as you. In the states I've lived in...it's the act of flashing the brights or failing to lower them....not the actual lumens brightness...which regulates it.

But as I said...that was dominoe 1 of 10. The driver had the power to stop it after each dominoe....but he didnt. He kept acting different than 99.99999% of people act when stopped.

So you're going with ignorance as a reason for your outright lies?

If being non-ignorant means having to listen to morons like you....vs just watching the raw body cam....sure. Body Cam doesn't lie or exaggerate.

Anyone that thinks that was good police behavior is a fucking idiot. Its just that simple.
We should be asking what would Andy do,a young wasted life because an authoritarian asshole was given a gun and a badge. Shit police work plan and simple,shouldn't ever be allowed to be a cop anywhere,nor own a gun.

 

[ClosedCaption]

So the level of brightness that is unlawful is arbitrary..

Before you move on, why did you state something that was clearly false as a fact?

Easy. I didn't watch the whole video. I watched only the actual body cam footage. That narrator was probably as much a moron as you. In the states I've lived in...it's the act of flashing the brights or failing to lower them....not the actual lumens brightness...which regulates it.

But as I said...that was dominoe 1 of 10. The driver had the power to stop it after each dominoe....but he didnt. He kept acting different than 99.99999% of people act when stopped.

So you're going with ignorance as a reason for your outright lies?

If being non-ignorant means having to listen to morons like you....vs just watching the raw body cam....sure. Body Cam doesn't lie or exaggerate.

But you do and once again, you made false assertions and presented them as fact. Your bad.

Even if you go with only the body cam footage that doesnt make you make up a fake law. YOU did that on your own. Why? Because you just throw out lies.

 

[bucs90]

That's a laughable lie. So you're saying there are police departments who KILL people....and their official policy is to do no report, no documentation. Just shrug it off and go get coffee.

You're so delusional it's ridiculous.

I'd like you to show me ONE person killed by police....that wasn't reported and documented. Otherwise you're just making shit up. 1 incident of a cop killing someone in the course of official duty....which the cops didn't report. Just 1.

You keep doing this thing where you call names and laugh and believe you just made a point. The NYTIMES article shows that they dont keep those stats. You want to argue? Tell the NYTIMES you know better but you're going to need more than wackadoodle questions, name calling and smiley's

Surely they sourced their info right?? Should be easy. Just show me ONE incident of a police officer killing someone on official duty....and as an official policy the department then says fuck it and no report no photos no documentation.

Just ONE. If it's so common....it should be very very easy. Go ahead...make me look foolish. Just 1.

How many police shootings a year No one knows - The Washington Post

Criminal justice experts note that, while the federal government and national research groups keep scads of data and statistics— on topics ranging from how many people were victims of unprovoked shark attacks (53 in 2013) to the number of hogs and pigs living on farms in the U.S. (upwards of 64,000,000 according to 2010 numbers) — there is no reliable national data on how many people are shot by police officers each year.

AH....so it's not that "police dont report it" as you claim. It's that the Feds don't specifically track it.

Know why? Because Feds view cop shootings that are unjustified...simply as murder. They are tracked. Under the "murder" category.

So why don't Feds specifically track how many murders are committed by cops? Same reason they don't track it for lawyers or cab drivers or grocery clerks.


So....the gripe that they aren't "reported" is a lie.
The gripe that they aren't tracked...also a lie.

They are simply not labeled by occupation of the offender. Which is what you're really mad at...because it would help you smear cops.

Officials with the Justice Department keep no comprehensive database or record of police shootings, instead allowing the nation’s more than 17,000 law enforcement agencies to self-report officer-involved shootings as part of the FBI’s annual data on “justifiable homicides” by law enforcement.

That number – which only includes self-reported information from about 750 law enforcement agencies – hovers around 400 “justifiable homicides” by police officers each year. The DOJ’s Bureau of Justice Statistics also tracks “arrest-related deaths.” But the department stopped releasing those numbers after 2009, because, like the FBI data, they were widely regarded as unreliable.

Haha. Thanks. So once again....they aren't "unreported". The DOJ just doesn't get off its lazy ass to track it. It's EASILY accessed. Every state government keeps this data. Every county does too....it's all in the coroner's info.

The DOJ has time to flood Ferguson with agents and analyze finance data of every Tea Party group. But not to gather data from state and county offices regarding police deaths.


You'd THINK that of this was such a HUGE ISSUE....that in 7 years Obama and Holder would've changed that. They aren't exactly pro police.

Why do you think they didn't bother changing that?


Because....the Feds make all law enforcement agencies to use the UCR crime coding tool on all incident reports. This also is tied to their access to NCIC.....which is absolutely critical. So the Feds are already making EVERY police report be coded through federal codes...whether it's petty theft or murder. They already mandate all sorts of criteria for NCIC.

You'd think Obama/Holder would simply add to that...requiring all reports coded as homicide by an officer to be forwarded. I mean....by UCR coding requirements...they already are....under the UCR "Homicide".

It would be so easy. And would fix a supposedly huge problem. Yet....obviously , Obama and Holder didn't do it.

Why? I hope you have an understanding of federal requirements of UCR coding and NCIC before you answer....or you're gonna look like a big ole idiot.


I'll give you a hint. It's technically voluntary....but funding is tied to it. And participation in "voluntary " UCR reporting is mandatory to get certain funding.

 

[bucs90]

So the level of brightness that is unlawful is arbitrary..

Before you move on, why did you state something that was clearly false as a fact?

Easy. I didn't watch the whole video. I watched only the actual body cam footage. That narrator was probably as much a moron as you. In the states I've lived in...it's the act of flashing the brights or failing to lower them....not the actual lumens brightness...which regulates it.

But as I said...that was dominoe 1 of 10. The driver had the power to stop it after each dominoe....but he didnt. He kept acting different than 99.99999% of people act when stopped.

So you're going with ignorance as a reason for your outright lies?

If being non-ignorant means having to listen to morons like you....vs just watching the raw body cam....sure. Body Cam doesn't lie or exaggerate.

But you do and once again, you made false assertions and presented them as fact. Your bad.

Even if you go with only the body cam footage that doesnt make you make up a fake law. YOU did that on your own. Why? Because you just throw out lies.

I assumed the law was MORE strict than my states and the ones most states mimic. Sounds like Michigan's is even broader. Making the stop even more legal.

What does Michigan law say about resisting arrest and attacking a cop???

 

[ClosedCaption]

Haha. Thanks. So once again....they aren't "unreported". The DOJ just doesn't get off its lazy ass to track it.

Once again false. The local police are to self report. They dont. Try to keep up. Do you still want just 1 or are you now going to talk about the Washington Post and other stuff?

 

[ClosedCaption]

You'd THINK that of this was such a HUGE ISSUE....that in 7 years Obama and Holder would've changed that. They aren't exactly pro police.

There are all sorts of big issues that arent solved yet. Whats the point?

 

[ClosedCaption]

Before you move on, why did you state something that was clearly false as a fact?

Easy. I didn't watch the whole video. I watched only the actual body cam footage. That narrator was probably as much a moron as you. In the states I've lived in...it's the act of flashing the brights or failing to lower them....not the actual lumens brightness...which regulates it.

But as I said...that was dominoe 1 of 10. The driver had the power to stop it after each dominoe....but he didnt. He kept acting different than 99.99999% of people act when stopped.

So you're going with ignorance as a reason for your outright lies?

If being non-ignorant means having to listen to morons like you....vs just watching the raw body cam....sure. Body Cam doesn't lie or exaggerate.

But you do and once again, you made false assertions and presented them as fact. Your bad.

Even if you go with only the body cam footage that doesnt make you make up a fake law. YOU did that on your own. Why? Because you just throw out lies.

I assumed .....

SKRRRRRT! And there you have it, you made up a law out of thin air and now want someone to take you seriously. Sorry, Ravi was right. You're a dumbass

 

[there4eyeM]

Pretty Mickey-Mouse stop just for flashing headlights, which could have been a mistake or otherwise excusable, but certainly not worth the time and effort to harass a citizen. Once the boy was out of the car, on his knees, begging not to be hit, he was sufficiently subdued given the circumstances. Informing him that state law required showing papers might have been helpful, given it was clear the adolescent was confused on this point (which is of dubious Constitutional support).
This was not a murder suspect, a rape suspect or a robbery suspect. There was no reason to fear the boy, who obviously was not armed, but was frightened. An adult would recognize that and deal with it accordingly. The officer took things too far. It is tragic that this happened. That his actions were judged legal is no triumph for justice or anything to celebrate. It should be a warning to public servants to be vigilant in protecting their public.

 

[bucs90]

Haha. Thanks. So once again....they aren't "unreported". The DOJ just doesn't get off its lazy ass to track it.

Once again false. The local police are to self report. They dont. Try to keep up. Do you still want just 1 or are you now going to talk about the Washington Post and other stuff?

But you said they aren't reported. They are. They may just not be sent to the DOJ. As I said...you better know about UCR coding and NCIC regulations if you want this discussion.

EVERY killing by police IS reported. State and county coroner's have the full report....100% available to the public...and to the DOJ.

Reporting to the Feds? Well...all 50 states and all PDs use federal UCR coding. Those are sent to the Feds. Doing so is technically voluntary. ...as you said. And of course...cop haters and media harp on this. But do you know what the Feds tie to that participation? It's as mandatory as drinking water to survive. Technically voluntary. But not doing so.....well....see if you can figure it out.

Another hint? State police audit all county and local police to verify proper UCR coding and reporting. And the state police....all 50 of them...compile a full report on state crime. Including police killings.

Wanna keep going??? The noose is gonna get tighter for you. Or....you can keep buying the media's spin on it. Your choice.

 

[ClosedCaption]

I said the stats are wrong. You said prove it. I did.

Now you're arguing over who is responsible for the stats being wrong. Or who is responsible for those bad stats.

I said the stats were bad. I proved it. You lose.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Pretty Mickey-Mouse stop just for flashing headlights, which could have been a mistake or otherwise excusable, but certainly not worth the time and effort to harass a citizen. Once the boy was out of the car, on his knees, begging not to be hit, he was sufficiently subdued given the circumstances. Informing him that state law required showing papers might have been helpful, given it was clear the adolescent was confused on this point (which is of dubious Constitutional support).
This was not a murder suspect, a rape suspect or a robbery suspect. There was no reason to fear the boy, who obviously was not armed, but was frightened. An adult would recognize that and deal with it accordingly. The officer took things too far. It is tragic that this happened. That his actions were judged legal is no triumph for justice or anything to celebrate. It should be a warning to public servants to be vigilant in protecting their public.

Well stated

 

[bucs90]

Ah why not...it's fun. There's a little constitutional thing that makes it "voluntary " to report to Feds (states rights). But....the STATE police can....and DO....make it mandatory to report it to them.

So....while Podunk, Michigan Police may not report it to the Feds....they DO have to report it to the state police. All 50 states do. They have that power.

Now....you have all data on police killings...concentrated in 50 state police databases. Who...again...TECHNICALLY don't have to send it to Feds.

But....the highway funding/seat belt law deal gave the Feds some ideas.

And NCIC access and funding....is tied to participation in UCR reporting. And the 50 state police agencies....NEED that.

Wanna keep going? Or is this getting tricky for ya....