Blues Man
Diamond Member
- Aug 28, 2016
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you get to pick the funds your contributions are used to invest in.huh? no it's not...the value of a the 401K is what the value is...the money you put in, and if you are lucky, your employer matches is invested on the market.The value of a 401k is only that your employer matches. Because of that, a person would have to be an idiot not to take part. But other than that, 401ks are pretty much the most underperforming investment options out there. Like I said before, the return is less than what you use to get for money simply setting a bank account.and this is just going to be yet another fee added to that. The folks getting hit the hardest by the dems new tax, will be the working class folks trying to save for retirement. The poor saps that thought a 401K was away to avoid taxes in the beginning...nope...What?CNN of all places actually did a great piece on this new tax the left is trying to put on the working class: Opinion: A financial transaction tax may be aimed at hurting Wall Street. But it will hit Main Street investors instead
" Also, it won't just be Wall Street that bears the burden of this tax. In my experience, taxes on Wall Street rarely, if ever, remain a tax on Wall Street. Just like a gas tax is passed from oil companies on to people at the pump, taxes on financial transactions will be passed from financial services firms on to individual investors -- in this case as a higher cost to retail investors when the firms execute a trade or increase fees on mutual funds, ETF's, 401k plans or pension plans.
ore than 65 million US households own stocks, according to the Investment Company Institute, including more than 100 million participants in 401(k) plans which primarily use mutual funds and ETFs to help save for retirement. And according to the Urban Institute, more than 20 million state and local government employees participate in a public pension plan. All of these hard-working Americans will wind up bearing the cost of any financial transaction tax as a tax on their savings and retirement nest eggs."
.....
" Most countries that have implemented a financial transaction tax have found out the hard way that the tax did not raise anywhere near the amount its proponents claimed it would given the ease with which investors are able to move to different products or offshore trading venues. Sweden imposed a 1% financial transaction tax in 1984. Within six years of its implementation, 50% of Swedish stock trading volume had moved to other countries and the market dropped 5.3%. That's what smart people do in efficient markets. Sweden abolished the tax in 1991, and share prices rebounded by 9.7%.
A financial transaction tax may be a great soundbite for politicians -- hitting Wall Street to help pay for current economic deficits. But it will increase the cost of capital for American companies and it will wind up as a tax on Main Street investors -- hard-working Americans who are saving for their retirement. It may be good politics, but it is not good policy."
401k plans will almost certainly be exempt from this tax. It's meant to slow down short term traders.
401ks don't have active trades.
And 401ks are not the market. Most 401ks are in long term "packages" of solid/sound investments.
Short traders have zero interest in those companies.
A great example, on ethat I made good money on is ESprts $GMBL. It is a new tech company and therefore volatile. There is not a 401k plan on the planet that is investing in them. Pretty much all of the investors are short termers buying the lows and selling highs. But, as FA_Q2 is pointing out... it does not effect the upward, steady climb the company is on.
I could sit here and list 100 such companies easily, and not one of them are on any 401k plans. Not one.
So how you think day traders/retail traders are affecting your 401k is...well just wrong.
What is affecting your 401k is the investment firms that a) charge you fees... and b) they only invest the assets in very safe stocks.... therefore little gains.
401ks don't have active trades.
I'll bet 95% of the stock funds in the typical 401k trade actively.
Obviously I meant your own active trades. And those that allow minimal trading charge fees.
As well as.... I don't remember the exact percentage, but most people borrow and withdraw from their 401ks on a regular basis. And swallow the penalties and cash out when changing jobs.
401ks are an abysmal retirement plan for 90% of the population, if for no other reason than they are not disciplined enough to leave it alone.
They are typically underperforming because people, when picking out how to invest typically go for long term, so lower risk, smaller gain stocks
Without the match a 401K is just an IRA except with higher contribution limits.Maybe I am not speaking English...huh? no it's not...the value of a the 401K is what the value is...the money you put in, and if you are lucky, your employer matches is invested on the market.The value of a 401k is only that your employer matches. Because of that, a person would have to be an idiot not to take part. But other than that, 401ks are pretty much the most underperforming investment options out there. Like I said before, the return is less than what you use to get for money simply setting a bank account.and this is just going to be yet another fee added to that. The folks getting hit the hardest by the dems new tax, will be the working class folks trying to save for retirement. The poor saps that thought a 401K was away to avoid taxes in the beginning...nope...What?CNN of all places actually did a great piece on this new tax the left is trying to put on the working class: Opinion: A financial transaction tax may be aimed at hurting Wall Street. But it will hit Main Street investors instead
" Also, it won't just be Wall Street that bears the burden of this tax. In my experience, taxes on Wall Street rarely, if ever, remain a tax on Wall Street. Just like a gas tax is passed from oil companies on to people at the pump, taxes on financial transactions will be passed from financial services firms on to individual investors -- in this case as a higher cost to retail investors when the firms execute a trade or increase fees on mutual funds, ETF's, 401k plans or pension plans.
ore than 65 million US households own stocks, according to the Investment Company Institute, including more than 100 million participants in 401(k) plans which primarily use mutual funds and ETFs to help save for retirement. And according to the Urban Institute, more than 20 million state and local government employees participate in a public pension plan. All of these hard-working Americans will wind up bearing the cost of any financial transaction tax as a tax on their savings and retirement nest eggs."
.....
" Most countries that have implemented a financial transaction tax have found out the hard way that the tax did not raise anywhere near the amount its proponents claimed it would given the ease with which investors are able to move to different products or offshore trading venues. Sweden imposed a 1% financial transaction tax in 1984. Within six years of its implementation, 50% of Swedish stock trading volume had moved to other countries and the market dropped 5.3%. That's what smart people do in efficient markets. Sweden abolished the tax in 1991, and share prices rebounded by 9.7%.
A financial transaction tax may be a great soundbite for politicians -- hitting Wall Street to help pay for current economic deficits. But it will increase the cost of capital for American companies and it will wind up as a tax on Main Street investors -- hard-working Americans who are saving for their retirement. It may be good politics, but it is not good policy."
401k plans will almost certainly be exempt from this tax. It's meant to slow down short term traders.
401ks don't have active trades.
And 401ks are not the market. Most 401ks are in long term "packages" of solid/sound investments.
Short traders have zero interest in those companies.
A great example, on ethat I made good money on is ESprts $GMBL. It is a new tech company and therefore volatile. There is not a 401k plan on the planet that is investing in them. Pretty much all of the investors are short termers buying the lows and selling highs. But, as FA_Q2 is pointing out... it does not effect the upward, steady climb the company is on.
I could sit here and list 100 such companies easily, and not one of them are on any 401k plans. Not one.
So how you think day traders/retail traders are affecting your 401k is...well just wrong.
What is affecting your 401k is the investment firms that a) charge you fees... and b) they only invest the assets in very safe stocks.... therefore little gains.
401ks don't have active trades.
I'll bet 95% of the stock funds in the typical 401k trade actively.
Obviously I meant your own active trades. And those that allow minimal trading charge fees.
As well as.... I don't remember the exact percentage, but most people borrow and withdraw from their 401ks on a regular basis. And swallow the penalties and cash out when changing jobs.
401ks are an abysmal retirement plan for 90% of the population, if for no other reason than they are not disciplined enough to leave it alone.
They are typically underperforming because people, when picking out how to invest typically go for long term, so lower risk, smaller gain stocks
By saying the only value of a 401k is the company match... meaning.... without a company match, a 401k is not that lucrative. The average U.S. 401k return for 2020 was 2.72% minus fees... fucking horrible. That is pathetic.
And now the average company match is only 5%. Because most companies deceive their employee by saying they match "25%"... but only on the first 3% - 4% of your contribution. So...yeah... not 25%.
And when people look at returns on the internet or company literature it will say their return in say... 12%....wow!!... but that includes employer contribution. So in reality it is more like 5%... LESS than what a lowly savings account use to pay in interest.
I have a 401k, and a 403. I put money in it to get the employer match. If they didn't I wouldn't use it.
And where did you get that 2.72% return figure?
The returns you get on the money in you 401 K are directly related to the investments you pick. All you are saying is that most people don't structure their investments inside of their 401K very well.
And all you have to do is look at the funds you are picking and examine the performance and fees of each one. This isn't rocket science and you're blaming the the 401K for the poor choices of the people picking the funds.
I have a 401K that averaged double digit returns for the past 10 years