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Democrats propose "transaction tax" on financial transactions. (Poll)

Do you support the new "transaction tax", and if so, what would you do with the revenue?

  • No, I'll explain why in my post

    Votes: 18 64.3%
  • Yes, to pay for free community college & job training

    Votes: 3 10.7%
  • Yes, to pay for 1/2 of 4-year college and advanced degrees

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, to pay into the general revenue fund to pay for SS & Medicare

    Votes: 2 7.1%
  • Yes, see my post for where I'd put the $80b/yr revenue

    Votes: 5 17.9%

  • Total voters
    28

pknopp

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OMG
These fuckin loons will tax orgasms if they could.
Goddamn authoritarians!

You prefer just giving money away and adding to the debt?

Trump's Road to Socialism | Tho Bishop
No

So what we have here is a proposal to start paying for things and you are still against that?
I'm just curious... we're at nearly 30 TRILLION in red ink. We're spending around 1-2 T$ more PER YEAR. You folks HAVE to understand that we're facing an economic collapse in the NEAR term, yeah? If not, can you explain how we avoid it?

Why should I explain how? I didn't vote for it.

Now I would cut costs and raise taxes to address it.

Otherwise I support it all collapsing.
 
OP
kyzr

kyzr

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Investors buy and hold stock in a company to provide CAPITAL to grow the company.
HFTs use computers to buy/sell in microseconds stealing that CAPITAL.

So if I place an order to buy 10,000 shares of GE, HFTs are stealing
capital from GE or stealing capital from me?

Feel free to explain either scenario that applies.
The HFT computers know how to steal money from investors, its what they do, its all they do.
You seem to be coming from the "zero-sum-game" theory of economics. Not every gain implies someone else's loss.
IMHO when investors buy stocks, and HFTs remove some of that capital via computerized algorithms, that money they removed hurts investors' 401Ks. HFTs make no products, and provide no services, they just rake in investor's cash.
How are they removing it? They are buying it with money, (capitol), and then reselling it, where someone else is buying it with more capitol
People buy stock as an investment, betting that the company will use the money to grow over time.
HFTs buy and sell stock in microseconds using computers to steal the other people's investment.
See the difference? Investors vs thieves.
you have let to explain why it's thief when they are in fact buying, with money, something for sale, and then selling it for money in return.

People buy stocks to make money, some long term, some short term...not sure why you think you have the right to tell people they can't purchase something, or sell their property....and frankly support a tax on people simply doing that.

This tax is going to do nothing but hurt the working class. Sad you support that
1. You're not getting that HFTs are not "buying and selling" anything. Its all computerized theft done in microseconds.
2. In post #446 I'm proposing that instead of a "transaction tax" that a new law that requires a 48-hr holding period before the stock could be sold. This way money actually transfers back and forth to the company, and then back to the HFTs. Instead of computerized theft in microseconds.
3. Its a matter of fairness. Our 401Ks don't buy/sell in microseconds. Our money stays invested, the HFTs don't "invest" they just steal.
4. You are not taking into account that the money HFTs steal would be returned to investors. The tax won't be noticed by most investors.
It is not theft it is a purchase and a sale it doesn't matter how quickly it's done

So why don't you tell me how much was "stolen" from your portfolio because someone mad e a purchase and a sale in less than a second?
1. Its NOT a purchase/sale if no money changes hands, its computerized theft. Thats why a 48-hr holding period works too.
2. You can lookup how much HFTs made in the last 20-years. That is money that should be in our 401Ks.

money changes hand electronically.

Do you ever use a credit card over the phone? No money changes hands there and the place you bought it from doesn't have the fund electronically deposited until the next day sometime 2.

And there is no way you can say that just because some people made a quick turnaround stock sale that your portfolio would be lessened by the exact amount.

The fact is that a buy and hold strategy with dollar cost averaging will beat trying to time the market.
According to SEC "rules" it takes 3-days for stock transactions to be "official", so how do HFTs do it in microseconds?

The Securities and Exchange Commission has specific rules concerning how long it takes for the sale of stock to become official and the funds made available. The current rules call for a three-day settlement, which means it will take at least three days from the time you sell stock until the money is available.
 

pknopp

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Use computers to trade. Have computers to do their trades. Two different things.
No it isn't.
I also employ automatic buys... that $30/share again... I have been watching it, it is now at $29.80.... I think it will go lower, but I can't sit and watch it all day. So I set an autobuy at say $28..if/when it gets there - a computer automatically buys it. It may also automatically sell it later if I set a stop/loss in that buy.
You can also set price sells. Let's say I believe it will only get to $33 before bears start selling it off.
So for me, two trades happened automatically. And I would have to pay the government two sets of taxes on one set of income.

As someone else said here - this is just another example of the corporate Democrats protecting the interest of the wealthy while screwing the middle class.
It is the WEALTHY that are complaining about stock instability. They want to be the only ones to manipulate the markets. And are employing the Democrats to help them do it.

The Democrats are every bit as big of Wall Street whores as are the Republican's but I've not pushed either party.
 

iamwhatiseem

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3. When we buy a stock the money transfers to the company.

Are here's the root of your ignorance on the issue.

You think that every buy or sale of IBM stock has IBM as the counterparty.
I don't care who sells the stock, my point is that it takes 3-days for money to transfer for normal buys and sells. See link below.
So how is it that HFTs can buy and sell stocks in microseconds? The SEC appears to be enabling the HFTs theft?!

"The Securities and Exchange Commission has specific rules concerning how long it takes for the sale of stock to become official and the funds made available. The current rules call for a three-day settlement, which means it will take at least three days from the time you sell stock until the money is available."
I'm sorry, but you clearly don't understand buying and selling in the markets.
What you are talking about is settled and unsettled cash.
Depending on who you use to trade etc. - you may or may not be able to use unsettled cash in trades. Usually not.
Virtually all traders have cash assets deposited in their accounts that is above trade values.
I almost never have less than 50% in cash deposits. that way I can cover buys while cash is unsettled.
 

struth

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Investors buy and hold stock in a company to provide CAPITAL to grow the company.
HFTs use computers to buy/sell in microseconds stealing that CAPITAL.

So if I place an order to buy 10,000 shares of GE, HFTs are stealing
capital from GE or stealing capital from me?

Feel free to explain either scenario that applies.
The HFT computers know how to steal money from investors, its what they do, its all they do.
You seem to be coming from the "zero-sum-game" theory of economics. Not every gain implies someone else's loss.
IMHO when investors buy stocks, and HFTs remove some of that capital via computerized algorithms, that money they removed hurts investors' 401Ks. HFTs make no products, and provide no services, they just rake in investor's cash.
How are they removing it? They are buying it with money, (capitol), and then reselling it, where someone else is buying it with more capitol
People buy stock as an investment, betting that the company will use the money to grow over time.
HFTs buy and sell stock in microseconds using computers to steal the other people's investment.
See the difference? Investors vs thieves.
you have let to explain why it's thief when they are in fact buying, with money, something for sale, and then selling it for money in return.

People buy stocks to make money, some long term, some short term...not sure why you think you have the right to tell people they can't purchase something, or sell their property....and frankly support a tax on people simply doing that.

This tax is going to do nothing but hurt the working class. Sad you support that
1. You're not getting that HFTs are not "buying and selling" anything. Its all computerized theft done in microseconds.
2. In post #446 I'm proposing that instead of a "transaction tax" that a new law that requires a 48-hr holding period before the stock could be sold. This way money actually transfers back and forth to the company, and then back to the HFTs. Instead of computerized theft in microseconds.
3. Its a matter of fairness. Our 401Ks don't buy/sell in microseconds. Our money stays invested, the HFTs don't "invest" they just steal.
4. You are not taking into account that the money HFTs steal would be returned to investors. The tax won't be noticed by most investors.
It is not theft it is a purchase and a sale it doesn't matter how quickly it's done

So why don't you tell me how much was "stolen" from your portfolio because someone mad e a purchase and a sale in less than a second?
1. Its NOT a purchase/sale if no money changes hands, its computerized theft. Thats why a 48-hr holding period works too.
2. You can lookup how much HFTs made in the last 20-years. That is money that should be in our 401Ks.

money changes hand electronically.

Do you ever use a credit card over the phone? No money changes hands there and the place you bought it from doesn't have the fund electronically deposited until the next day sometime 2.

And there is no way you can say that just because some people made a quick turnaround stock sale that your portfolio would be lessened by the exact amount.

The fact is that a buy and hold strategy with dollar cost averaging will beat trying to time the market.
According to SEC "rules" it takes 3-days for stock transactions to be "official", so how do HFTs do it in microseconds?

The Securities and Exchange Commission has specific rules concerning how long it takes for the sale of stock to become official and the funds made available. The current rules call for a three-day settlement, which means it will take at least three days from the time you sell stock until the money is available.
That's how long it takes for the funds to be available...it's true for trades done in a second or in one day, or in 8 years.
 

Blues Man

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Investors buy and hold stock in a company to provide CAPITAL to grow the company.
HFTs use computers to buy/sell in microseconds stealing that CAPITAL.

So if I place an order to buy 10,000 shares of GE, HFTs are stealing
capital from GE or stealing capital from me?

Feel free to explain either scenario that applies.
The HFT computers know how to steal money from investors, its what they do, its all they do.
You seem to be coming from the "zero-sum-game" theory of economics. Not every gain implies someone else's loss.
IMHO when investors buy stocks, and HFTs remove some of that capital via computerized algorithms, that money they removed hurts investors' 401Ks. HFTs make no products, and provide no services, they just rake in investor's cash.
How are they removing it? They are buying it with money, (capitol), and then reselling it, where someone else is buying it with more capitol
People buy stock as an investment, betting that the company will use the money to grow over time.
HFTs buy and sell stock in microseconds using computers to steal the other people's investment.
See the difference? Investors vs thieves.
you have let to explain why it's thief when they are in fact buying, with money, something for sale, and then selling it for money in return.

People buy stocks to make money, some long term, some short term...not sure why you think you have the right to tell people they can't purchase something, or sell their property....and frankly support a tax on people simply doing that.

This tax is going to do nothing but hurt the working class. Sad you support that
1. You're not getting that HFTs are not "buying and selling" anything. Its all computerized theft done in microseconds.
2. In post #446 I'm proposing that instead of a "transaction tax" that a new law that requires a 48-hr holding period before the stock could be sold. This way money actually transfers back and forth to the company, and then back to the HFTs. Instead of computerized theft in microseconds.
3. Its a matter of fairness. Our 401Ks don't buy/sell in microseconds. Our money stays invested, the HFTs don't "invest" they just steal.
4. You are not taking into account that the money HFTs steal would be returned to investors. The tax won't be noticed by most investors.
It is not theft it is a purchase and a sale it doesn't matter how quickly it's done

So why don't you tell me how much was "stolen" from your portfolio because someone mad e a purchase and a sale in less than a second?
1. Its NOT a purchase/sale if no money changes hands, its computerized theft. Thats why a 48-hr holding period works too.
2. You can lookup how much HFTs made in the last 20-years. That is money that should be in our 401Ks.

money changes hand electronically.

Do you ever use a credit card over the phone? No money changes hands there and the place you bought it from doesn't have the fund electronically deposited until the next day sometime 2.

And there is no way you can say that just because some people made a quick turnaround stock sale that your portfolio would be lessened by the exact amount.

The fact is that a buy and hold strategy with dollar cost averaging will beat trying to time the market.
According to SEC "rules" it takes 3-days for stock transactions to be "official", so how do HFTs do it in microseconds?

The Securities and Exchange Commission has specific rules concerning how long it takes for the sale of stock to become official and the funds made available. The current rules call for a three-day settlement, which means it will take at least three days from the time you sell stock until the money is available.
All that means is the funds from the sale will be in your account within 3 days.

It's the same way credit cards work. The store sells you something and you use a credit card the funds will be deposited into the business's account usually within 48 hours. That doesn't mean a sale never took place
 

Toddsterpatriot

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Just a 0.10% levy on all profitable transactions would wipe out all countries' deficits within a year.

Just the profitable ones? On the purchase cost or the sale cost?

How much would be raised?
On the actual profit made.
Trillions would be raised per annum although the figures I saw back in 2008 would have substantially increased.

It won't be wars that bring down the western developed nations, it will be debt just as it brought down the soviet union. History will repeat itself and reverse itself with Communist China ready to pick up the pieces.

On the actual profit made.

We already charge much more than 0.1% on most capital gains.
Doesn't even come close to $1 trillion.

It won't be wars that bring down the western developed nations, it will be debt just as it brought down the soviet union.

Debt didn't bring down the Soviet Union, it was the failure of communism.
They just can't compete.
 

Blues Man

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Just a 0.10% levy on all profitable transactions would wipe out all countries' deficits within a year.

Just the profitable ones? On the purchase cost or the sale cost?

How much would be raised?
On the actual profit made.
Trillions would be raised per annum although the figures I saw back in 2008 would have substantially increased.

It won't be wars that bring down the western developed nations, it will be debt just as it brought down the soviet union. History will repeat itself and reverse itself with Communist China ready to pick up the pieces.

On the actual profit made.

We already charge much more than 0.1% on most capital gains.
Doesn't even come close to $1 trillion.

It won't be wars that bring down the western developed nations, it will be debt just as it brought down the soviet union.

Debt didn't bring down the Soviet Union, it was the failure of communism.
They just can't compete.

The .1% is the camel's nose
 

Toddsterpatriot

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3. When we buy a stock the money transfers to the company.

Are here's the root of your ignorance on the issue.

You think that every buy or sale of IBM stock has IBM as the counterparty.
I don't care who sells the stock, my point is that it takes 3-days for money to transfer for normal buys and sells. See link below.
So how is it that HFTs can buy and sell stocks in microseconds? The SEC appears to be enabling the HFTs theft?!

"The Securities and Exchange Commission has specific rules concerning how long it takes for the sale of stock to become official and the funds made available. The current rules call for a three-day settlement, which means it will take at least three days from the time you sell stock until the money is available."

I don't care who sells the stock, my point is that it takes 3-days for money to transfer for normal buys and sells.

Bullshit. All trades take 3 days to settle.

You actually thought the issuer, like IBM, was in the middle of every trade.
You thought that every dollar an HFT made was coming out of IBM's pocket.

So how is it that HFTs can buy and sell stocks in microseconds?

By having the money in their account to settle the trades in 3 days.
Just like anyone else.
 

Toddsterpatriot

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Investors buy and hold stock in a company to provide CAPITAL to grow the company.
HFTs use computers to buy/sell in microseconds stealing that CAPITAL.

So if I place an order to buy 10,000 shares of GE, HFTs are stealing
capital from GE or stealing capital from me?

Feel free to explain either scenario that applies.
The HFT computers know how to steal money from investors, its what they do, its all they do.
You seem to be coming from the "zero-sum-game" theory of economics. Not every gain implies someone else's loss.
IMHO when investors buy stocks, and HFTs remove some of that capital via computerized algorithms, that money they removed hurts investors' 401Ks. HFTs make no products, and provide no services, they just rake in investor's cash.
How are they removing it? They are buying it with money, (capitol), and then reselling it, where someone else is buying it with more capitol
People buy stock as an investment, betting that the company will use the money to grow over time.
HFTs buy and sell stock in microseconds using computers to steal the other people's investment.
See the difference? Investors vs thieves.
you have let to explain why it's thief when they are in fact buying, with money, something for sale, and then selling it for money in return.

People buy stocks to make money, some long term, some short term...not sure why you think you have the right to tell people they can't purchase something, or sell their property....and frankly support a tax on people simply doing that.

This tax is going to do nothing but hurt the working class. Sad you support that
1. You're not getting that HFTs are not "buying and selling" anything. Its all computerized theft done in microseconds.
2. In post #446 I'm proposing that instead of a "transaction tax" that a new law that requires a 48-hr holding period before the stock could be sold. This way money actually transfers back and forth to the company, and then back to the HFTs. Instead of computerized theft in microseconds.
3. Its a matter of fairness. Our 401Ks don't buy/sell in microseconds. Our money stays invested, the HFTs don't "invest" they just steal.
4. You are not taking into account that the money HFTs steal would be returned to investors. The tax won't be noticed by most investors.
It is not theft it is a purchase and a sale it doesn't matter how quickly it's done

So why don't you tell me how much was "stolen" from your portfolio because someone mad e a purchase and a sale in less than a second?
1. Its NOT a purchase/sale if no money changes hands, its computerized theft. Thats why a 48-hr holding period works too.
2. You can lookup how much HFTs made in the last 20-years. That is money that should be in our 401Ks.
1) of course money changes hands...it might be fast, but it happens. You can't sell something you don't have ownership interest in, and nobody is going to sell you a stock without getting paid.
2) that's just silly...you want Govt to now come in and tell people they have to have a waiting period to sell something? What if there is a massive downturn within that period due to whatever.,..all you are going to do is screw the little guy that has most of his saving tied up in the market.
3) you can always invest in otherways, and more then one way then just a 401K. Fairness? I don'tthink it's fair I don't get a 401K because I am self employed. So why don't we just do away with 401Ks? And your employer can't match you. K? That seems fair
4) hahah that's complete BS...the investors will be the ones taxed on their transactions...it's going to hit investors directly.

1) already addressed
2) what in the world are you talking about? Why should that be in your 401K? when someone else makes money buying and selling something, that's not money that should be yours. You do realize that 401Ks are but one, of many many different tools and ways to invest in the market right?
How can money change hands in microseconds? Bullshit.
Here is an SEC rule for us, it takes three fucking days for our buys/sells to become "official".
So how the fuck can HFTs do them in microseconds?

The Securities and Exchange Commission has specific rules concerning how long it takes for the sale of stock to become official and the funds made available. The current rules call for a three-day settlement, which means it will take at least three days from the time you sell stock until the money is available.

Here is an SEC rule for us, it takes three fucking days for our buys/sells to become "official".
So how the fuck can HFTs do them in microseconds?


If they make money, it takes 3 days for the profit to settle.
If they lose money, it takes 3 days for the loss to settle.
 

Richard-H

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I never thought that I'd ever be on the same side as Ilhan Omar, but here we are.
I support the proposed transaction tax. It will hit the high-speed traders more than me or other "buy and hold" investors.

The argument against it is that high-speed traders will just move off-shore to do their trades, fine.
They are nothing but leeches stealing our 401k investments.


"This (transaction tax) makes financial markets fairer and possibly less volatile. As described by Michael Lewis in Flash Boys, high frequency traders (HFTs) can earn profits by front-running other trades by micro-seconds, an activity that raises costs for legitimate traders and provides no value to society. HFTs account for roughly half all stock trades and much of their business model would be threatened by the proposed transactions tax.
Under current law, someone selling or buying $1,000 of stock pays just over two cents in transaction taxes. This existing fee raises over $1.5 billion per year. The proposal would add a tax of $1 to that transaction."

Geez, I thought I was the only one in the world that realized that market volatility was a mechanism for shifting log term (401k) investment money into the hands of short term investors.

I don't care where the government chooses to spend the money. This tax has the intrinsic benefit of reducing market volatility and help us 401k investors keep our money!
 

Richard-H

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Investors buy and hold stock in a company to provide CAPITAL to grow the company.
HFTs use computers to buy/sell in microseconds stealing that CAPITAL.

So if I place an order to buy 10,000 shares of GE, HFTs are stealing
capital from GE or stealing capital from me?

Feel free to explain either scenario that applies.
The HFT computers know how to steal money from investors, its what they do, its all they do.
You seem to be coming from the "zero-sum-game" theory of economics. Not every gain implies someone else's loss.
IMHO when investors buy stocks, and HFTs remove some of that capital via computerized algorithms, that money they removed hurts investors' 401Ks. HFTs make no products, and provide no services, they just rake in investor's cash.
How are they removing it? They are buying it with money, (capitol), and then reselling it, where someone else is buying it with more capitol
People buy stock as an investment, betting that the company will use the money to grow over time.
HFTs buy and sell stock in microseconds using computers to steal the other people's investment.
See the difference? Investors vs thieves.
you have let to explain why it's thief when they are in fact buying, with money, something for sale, and then selling it for money in return.

People buy stocks to make money, some long term, some short term...not sure why you think you have the right to tell people they can't purchase something, or sell their property....and frankly support a tax on people simply doing that.

This tax is going to do nothing but hurt the working class. Sad you support that
1. You're not getting that HFTs are not "buying and selling" anything. Its all computerized theft done in microseconds.
2. In post #446 I'm proposing that instead of a "transaction tax" that a new law that requires a 48-hr holding period before the stock could be sold. This way money actually transfers back and forth to the company, and then back to the HFTs. Instead of computerized theft in microseconds.
3. Its a matter of fairness. Our 401Ks don't buy/sell in microseconds. Our money stays invested, the HFTs don't "invest" they just steal.
4. You are not taking into account that the money HFTs steal would be returned to investors. The tax won't be noticed by most investors.
It is not theft it is a purchase and a sale it doesn't matter how quickly it's done

So why don't you tell me how much was "stolen" from your portfolio because someone mad e a purchase and a sale in less than a second?
1. Its NOT a purchase/sale if no money changes hands, its computerized theft. Thats why a 48-hr holding period works too.
2. You can lookup how much HFTs made in the last 20-years. That is money that should be in our 401Ks.
1) of course money changes hands...it might be fast, but it happens. You can't sell something you don't have ownership interest in, and nobody is going to sell you a stock without getting paid.
2) that's just silly...you want Govt to now come in and tell people they have to have a waiting period to sell something? What if there is a massive downturn within that period due to whatever.,..all you are going to do is screw the little guy that has most of his saving tied up in the market.
3) you can always invest in otherways, and more then one way then just a 401K. Fairness? I don'tthink it's fair I don't get a 401K because I am self employed. So why don't we just do away with 401Ks? And your employer can't match you. K? That seems fair
4) hahah that's complete BS...the investors will be the ones taxed on their transactions...it's going to hit investors directly.

1) already addressed
2) what in the world are you talking about? Why should that be in your 401K? when someone else makes money buying and selling something, that's not money that should be yours. You do realize that 401Ks are but one, of many many different tools and ways to invest in the market right?
How can money change hands in microseconds? Bullshit.
Here is an SEC rule for us, it takes three fucking days for our buys/sells to become "official".
So how the fuck can HFTs do them in microseconds?

The Securities and Exchange Commission has specific rules concerning how long it takes for the sale of stock to become official and the funds made available. The current rules call for a three-day settlement, which means it will take at least three days from the time you sell stock until the money is available.

Here is an SEC rule for us, it takes three fucking days for our buys/sells to become "official".
So how the fuck can HFTs do them in microseconds?


If they make money, it takes 3 days for the profit to settle.
If they lose money, it takes 3 days for the loss to settle.

Traders don't have to wait for the transactions to 'Settle'. As long as they keep their records straight they can just keep trading.
 

Blues Man

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I never thought that I'd ever be on the same side as Ilhan Omar, but here we are.
I support the proposed transaction tax. It will hit the high-speed traders more than me or other "buy and hold" investors.

The argument against it is that high-speed traders will just move off-shore to do their trades, fine.
They are nothing but leeches stealing our 401k investments.


"This (transaction tax) makes financial markets fairer and possibly less volatile. As described by Michael Lewis in Flash Boys, high frequency traders (HFTs) can earn profits by front-running other trades by micro-seconds, an activity that raises costs for legitimate traders and provides no value to society. HFTs account for roughly half all stock trades and much of their business model would be threatened by the proposed transactions tax.
Under current law, someone selling or buying $1,000 of stock pays just over two cents in transaction taxes. This existing fee raises over $1.5 billion per year. The proposal would add a tax of $1 to that transaction."

Geez, I thought I was the only one in the world that realized that market volatility was a mechanism for shifting log term (401k) investment money into the hands of short term investors.

I don't care where the government chooses to spend the money. This tax has the intrinsic benefit of reducing market volatility and help us 401k investors keep our money!

OK show my how much money you would have had in your 401K if no one day traded.
 

Blues Man

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HFTs have very little if any effect on the long term investor. They have the most effect people who try to time the market in the short term. So in reality HFTs hurt the day traders more than the long term investors

 

Osiris-ODS

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OMG
These fuckin loons will tax orgasms if they could.
Goddamn authoritarians!

Careful, they might read this post and decide to push it through Congress. Especially since the orgasm tax wouldn't affect most of them, much like income tax.
 

struth

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Investors buy and hold stock in a company to provide CAPITAL to grow the company.
HFTs use computers to buy/sell in microseconds stealing that CAPITAL.

So if I place an order to buy 10,000 shares of GE, HFTs are stealing
capital from GE or stealing capital from me?

Feel free to explain either scenario that applies.
The HFT computers know how to steal money from investors, its what they do, its all they do.
You seem to be coming from the "zero-sum-game" theory of economics. Not every gain implies someone else's loss.
IMHO when investors buy stocks, and HFTs remove some of that capital via computerized algorithms, that money they removed hurts investors' 401Ks. HFTs make no products, and provide no services, they just rake in investor's cash.
How are they removing it? They are buying it with money, (capitol), and then reselling it, where someone else is buying it with more capitol
People buy stock as an investment, betting that the company will use the money to grow over time.
HFTs buy and sell stock in microseconds using computers to steal the other people's investment.
See the difference? Investors vs thieves.
you have let to explain why it's thief when they are in fact buying, with money, something for sale, and then selling it for money in return.

People buy stocks to make money, some long term, some short term...not sure why you think you have the right to tell people they can't purchase something, or sell their property....and frankly support a tax on people simply doing that.

This tax is going to do nothing but hurt the working class. Sad you support that
1. You're not getting that HFTs are not "buying and selling" anything. Its all computerized theft done in microseconds.
2. In post #446 I'm proposing that instead of a "transaction tax" that a new law that requires a 48-hr holding period before the stock could be sold. This way money actually transfers back and forth to the company, and then back to the HFTs. Instead of computerized theft in microseconds.
3. Its a matter of fairness. Our 401Ks don't buy/sell in microseconds. Our money stays invested, the HFTs don't "invest" they just steal.
4. You are not taking into account that the money HFTs steal would be returned to investors. The tax won't be noticed by most investors.
It is not theft it is a purchase and a sale it doesn't matter how quickly it's done

So why don't you tell me how much was "stolen" from your portfolio because someone mad e a purchase and a sale in less than a second?
1. Its NOT a purchase/sale if no money changes hands, its computerized theft. Thats why a 48-hr holding period works too.
2. You can lookup how much HFTs made in the last 20-years. That is money that should be in our 401Ks.
1) of course money changes hands...it might be fast, but it happens. You can't sell something you don't have ownership interest in, and nobody is going to sell you a stock without getting paid.
2) that's just silly...you want Govt to now come in and tell people they have to have a waiting period to sell something? What if there is a massive downturn within that period due to whatever.,..all you are going to do is screw the little guy that has most of his saving tied up in the market.
3) you can always invest in otherways, and more then one way then just a 401K. Fairness? I don'tthink it's fair I don't get a 401K because I am self employed. So why don't we just do away with 401Ks? And your employer can't match you. K? That seems fair
4) hahah that's complete BS...the investors will be the ones taxed on their transactions...it's going to hit investors directly.

1) already addressed
2) what in the world are you talking about? Why should that be in your 401K? when someone else makes money buying and selling something, that's not money that should be yours. You do realize that 401Ks are but one, of many many different tools and ways to invest in the market right?
How can money change hands in microseconds? Bullshit.
Here is an SEC rule for us, it takes three fucking days for our buys/sells to become "official".
So how the fuck can HFTs do them in microseconds?

The Securities and Exchange Commission has specific rules concerning how long it takes for the sale of stock to become official and the funds made available. The current rules call for a three-day settlement, which means it will take at least three days from the time you sell stock until the money is available.

Here is an SEC rule for us, it takes three fucking days for our buys/sells to become "official".
So how the fuck can HFTs do them in microseconds?


If they make money, it takes 3 days for the profit to settle.
If they lose money, it takes 3 days for the loss to settle.

Traders don't have to wait for the transactions to 'Settle'. As long as they keep their records straight they can just keep trading.
yeah, that’s true for a lot of transactions that aren’t cash. They take time to clear.

I can go to Lowe’s and write a check for a lawnmower today, take the mower. It’s gonna take a day or so for that check to clear. Meanwhile i can sell the mower to my neighbor and take another check...before it’s cleared.

doesn’t mean i am not on the hook to lowe’s for that transaction it just hasn’t cleared
 

iamwhatiseem

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Geez, I thought I was the only one in the world that realized that market volatility was a mechanism for shifting log term (401k) investment money into the hands of short term investors.

I don't care where the government chooses to spend the money. This tax has the intrinsic benefit of reducing market volatility and help us 401k investors keep our money!
Hahahahahahaaaa!!!!!!
Now that is some funny shit right there!
Good Lord
 

iamwhatiseem

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yeah, that’s true for a lot of transactions that aren’t cash. They take time to clear.

I can go to Lowe’s and write a check for a lawnmower today, take the mower. It’s gonna take a day or so for that check to clear. Meanwhile i can sell the mower to my neighbor and take another check...before it’s cleared.

doesn’t mean i am not on the hook to lowe’s for that transaction it just hasn’t cleared

Exactly, it is really not that difficult to understand.
 

iamwhatiseem

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HFTs have very little if any effect on the long term investor. They have the most effect people who try to time the market in the short term. So in reality HFTs hurt the day traders more than the long term investors

Om my goodness... now three folks here understand this.
Impressive... usually only one, or at most two people know what they are talking about in a single thread,
 

iamwhatiseem

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And to make a point.... honestly... you just have to laugh at anyone who thinks - ANYTHING - proposed in Washington is for the benefit of everyday citizens.
That is just hilarious.
 

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