Democrats have used self-executing rule over a hundred times

[Ringel05]

So because didn't use it on a large thing, that makes it okay?

That's like saying, "well it's okay, they only robbed a house instead of a bank."

You can admit in hindsight they were wrong, but this is the type of bullshit I'm talking about. Don't allow the RNC to string you along thinking they haven't pulled this bullshit either. Because odds are, they are the ones who were masters of it and the Dems took good notes.

No, it's not ok. It wasn't OK when R's did it and it's really not OK for Dems to use it to shred the Constitution

I see this type thing all the time. The funny thing is, I never heard a republican complain when the republicans did things....only when the dems do it.

That is the definition of a hypocrite.

Works both ways. But then I thought that was obvious. What's really ironic is most people here think the procedure is unscrupulous at best yet defend (not you Dog) their own side for employing it simply because the other side does it. That is the definition of hypocrisy.

 

[beowolfe]

The OP seems to think that the Slaughter Rule and Reconciliation are the same thing. They are not even close. The Slaughter Rule is something new that Pelosi is trying to get done so that they don't have to vote on this bill, but just claim that it is passed. Reconciliation would be using a majority vote to pass one version of the bill and then reconcile it with the other version. They are two vastly different things, and the Slaughter Rule has never been used before.

People really should know what they're talking about before making posts that claim that the Republicans did something that has never been done before.

Rick

It wouldn't matter what the OP's thoughts were. The GOP has used both reconcilliation and 'deem passed' when they had the levers of powers. And as another poster said, the GOP was warned that they would not always be in power and their shennigans would come back to bite em in the ass.

 

[Care4all]

What a difference a Day makes....

House Passes Budget Bill with Biggest Cuts in Medicaid, Medicare

Cuts $99.3 billion over 10 years - 27% from Medicaid, 23% from Medicare.

Feb. 1, 2006 – It's done. The House has passed and sent to President Bush the budget reconciliation bill that was strongly opposed by most senior citizen advocacy groups and newspaper editorials due to the deep cuts it makes in Medicaid and Medicare. It was a very close vote – 216 to 214. The bill cuts the budget by $38.8 billion over five years – 50 percent of the cuts are in Medicaid and Medicare.


Related Stories



Final House Vote on Budget Bill Could Cut Billions from Senior Programs

Passage expected Wednesday to cut Medicare, Medicaid

Jan. 30, 2006 – The Budget Reconciliation Bill, which many see as making drastic cuts in government programs for senior citizens – Medicaid and Medicare, is expected to hit the House floor on Wednesday for a final vote, the day after the President's State of the Union address. As reported today by the Capitol Hill Watch at KaiserNet.org, the bill will reduce federal spending by $99.3 billion over 10 years, with half of that coming from these senior programs. The Congressional Budget Office analysis says premiums for Medicaid beneficiaries in the bill could cause 110,000 to lose coverage by 2015. Read more...

Senate Budget Chair Calls for More Cuts in Medicare

Republicans to recycle old failed issues in 2006

Jan. 26, 2006 – The Republican chairman of the Senate Budget Committee is calling for more cuts in health care programs in fiscal 2007, which includes Medicare, according to The Daily Health Policy Report by KaiserNetwork.org, which cites CQ Today. The daily news summary says Republicans will also be targeting health care proposals this year, but most are proposals that have failed in the past. Read more...

• Homecare Industry Rallying Support to Kill Reconciliation Act

• Television Campaign to Stop Health Care Cuts for Seniors Launched by AFSCME

• Vote on Budget Set for Feb. 1; Senior Groups Seek to Sway GOP Moderates


The House first passed the bill on Dec. 19, 2005, by a vote of 212-206. It went to the Senate, where it passed by only one vote – 51-50. Due to procedural changes in the Senate, it had to go back to the House for this final vote. There was intensive lobbying by the senior citizen advocates and others since the Senate vote on Dec. 21, 2005, but they came only four votes closer.

The final vote was mostly along party lines, with Republicans supporting the bill and Democrats in opposition.

House Passes Budget Bill with Biggest Cuts in Medicaid, Medicare

 

[MikeHoncho]

The OP seems to think that the Slaughter Rule and Reconciliation are the same thing. They are not even close. The Slaughter Rule is something new that Pelosi is trying to get done so that they don't have to vote on this bill, but just claim that it is passed. Reconciliation would be using a majority vote to pass one version of the bill and then reconcile it with the other version. They are two vastly different things, and the Slaughter Rule has never been used before.

People really should know what they're talking about before making posts that claim that the Republicans did something that has never been done before.

Rick

It wouldn't matter what the OP's thoughts were. The GOP has used both reconcilliation and 'deem passed' when they had the levers of powers. And as another poster said, the GOP was warned that they would not always be in power and their shennigans would come back to bite em in the ass.

what your not understanding is that when the repubs and the dems used it in the past it was for provisions to a bill that was already passed in the house and senate.....to compare that to whats going on now would be to admit that the senate bill had been passed in the house....would anyone dare to make that assertion?

 

[boedicca]

Cite one section of the constitution that passing health insurance reform would shred?

Easy. For one, it violates the Commerce Clause (Article 1 Section 8 Clause 3).

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;


There is no power given to Congress to Force Individuals To Purchase a product or service.

 

[Truthmatters]

I must admit to a begrudging admiration for TM's persistent determination to continue spewing misinformation despite being proven wrong uncountable times on this very topic.

The GOP has never used self-executing bills to pass House Amendments to a Senate Bill that was not the Bill originally passed by The House. She can't provide any specific instances to the contrary - so just tries to spread the the fog of repeating a false meme ad nauseum in the HOPE that some people will accept it as truth. In her case, truth doesn't really matter, it's the convenient meme that does.

Do you see how tortured you are to create a differance in what the Republicans did and the Dems may do?

Do you understand what happens when a bill that has passed both houses has to be reconciled?

They then meld the bills and then vote on it.

This bill they are self executing is the SENATE bill. That is the result of the reconciling of the two bills which both passed their bodies. That means this bill is now going to pass the house when this is voted on by the house.


The republicans have used self executing bills aplenty and your silly attempt to make this one sound like some radical change is failed.

The constitutional scholar on this subject found now silly tortured exception like you are scrambling to make up worth pointing out.

I will side with him and dump your tortured scamble to find something to make your excuses to keep Americans dying for lack of care.

Remember the founders documents do include right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

 

[beowolfe]

Self-executing rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nice try liars but the self executing bill is the slaughter option

i understand that. the examples you give of the republicans using this, all were done with a bill that was passed in the both the house and senate. which of course as you have to know already, the dems are trying to avoid doing. see the difference?

If everything goes according to Pelosi's and Reid's plans, the bill will be voted on by the senate.

Democrats are considering the use of a self-executing rule to approve the Senate’s healthcare bill. Under the procedure, the House would “deem” the Senate bill passed when it votes on a package of changes to that legislation.

The package of changes then will be voted on by the Senate under budget reconciliation rules, which prevent Republicans from mounting a filibuster.

It seems to me that GOP past actions are being fed back to them in a double whammy. Deem passed in the house and reconcilliation in the Senate.

 

[MikeHoncho]

I must admit to a begrudging admiration for TM's persistent determination to continue spewing misinformation despite being proven wrong uncountable times on this very topic.

The GOP has never used self-executing bills to pass House Amendments to a Senate Bill that was not the Bill originally passed by The House. She can't provide any specific instances to the contrary - so just tries to spread the the fog of repeating a false meme ad nauseum in the HOPE that some people will accept it as truth. In her case, truth doesn't really matter, it's the convenient meme that does.

Do you see how tortured you are to create a differance in what the Republicans did and the Dems may do?

Do you understand what happens when a bill that has passed both houses has to be reconciled?

They then meld the bills and then vote on it.

This bill they are self executing is the SENATE bill. That is the result of the reconciling of the two bills which both passed their bodies. That means this bill is now going to pass the house when this is voted on by the house.


The republicans have used self executing bills aplenty and your silly attempt to make this one sound like some radical change is failed.

The constitutional scholar on this subject found now silly tortured exception like you are scrambling to make up worth pointing out.

I will side with him and dump your tortured scamble to find something to make your excuses to keep Americans dying for lack of care.

Remember the founders documents do include right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

you still havent provided one example where either party has used this rule to a bill that was not ALREADY passed in the house or senate.

 

[bodecea]

No, it's not ok. It wasn't OK when R's did it and it's really not OK for Dems to use it to shred the Constitution

I see this type thing all the time. The funny thing is, I never heard a republican complain when the republicans did things....only when the dems do it.

That is the definition of a hypocrite.

You know what? I'll plead ignorance here. I had no idea anybody ever did such outrageous stuff! It's WRONG! Period!

It was wrong when R's did it and I think had they tried to use this to partially privitize Social Security I might have learned about it then.

I will agree with you on this...NO ONE should be doing it.

Now...are the Republicans claiming that they have NEVER done it before or are they saying it's inappropriate for a bill of this magnitude?

 

[Care4all]

Cite one section of the constitution that passing health insurance reform would shred?

Easy. For one, it violates the Commerce Clause (Article 1 Section 8 Clause 3).

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;


There is no power given to Congress to Force Individuals To Purchase a product or service.

are taxes 'forced'?

the reason i ask is that every citizen has been required by law, to buy social security insurance, and forced to buy medicare insurance, with their own money, whether they agree or not, it is mandatory....or 'forced' no? it is not income taxes, to pay the bills, but specific insurance plans that we are required to buy....?

or do you see this 'different' in some manner?

 

[Truthmatters]

I must admit to a begrudging admiration for TM's persistent determination to continue spewing misinformation despite being proven wrong uncountable times on this very topic.

The GOP has never used self-executing bills to pass House Amendments to a Senate Bill that was not the Bill originally passed by The House. She can't provide any specific instances to the contrary - so just tries to spread the the fog of repeating a false meme ad nauseum in the HOPE that some people will accept it as truth. In her case, truth doesn't really matter, it's the convenient meme that does.

Do you see how tortured you are to create a differance in what the Republicans did and the Dems may do?

Do you understand what happens when a bill that has passed both houses has to be reconciled?

They then meld the bills and then vote on it.

This bill they are self executing is the SENATE bill. That is the result of the reconciling of the two bills which both passed their bodies. That means this bill is now going to pass the house when this is voted on by the house.


The republicans have used self executing bills aplenty and your silly attempt to make this one sound like some radical change is failed.

The constitutional scholar on this subject found now silly tortured exception like you are scrambling to make up worth pointing out.

I will side with him and dump your tortured scamble to find something to make your excuses to keep Americans dying for lack of care.

Remember the founders documents do include right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

you still havent provided one example where either party has used this rule to a bill that was not ALREADY passed in the house or senate.

This bill is the senate bill WHICH PASSED THE SENATE!

 

[MikeHoncho]

I see this type thing all the time. The funny thing is, I never heard a republican complain when the republicans did things....only when the dems do it.

That is the definition of a hypocrite.

You know what? I'll plead ignorance here. I had no idea anybody ever did such outrageous stuff! It's WRONG! Period!

It was wrong when R's did it and I think had they tried to use this to partially privitize Social Security I might have learned about it then.

I will agree with you on this...NO ONE should be doing it.

Now...are the Republicans claiming that they have NEVER done it before or are they saying it's inappropriate for a bill of this magnitude?

no the republicans are saying the've never done this to a bill that was never passed in the house and senate.

all examples of self executing and reconciliation are to bills that have been passed in the house and senate. that goes for both dem and repub examples.

 

[Truthmatters]

Why do you insist on pretending it did not already pass the senate?

It is the bill that Passed the SENATE that is being used.

 

[Truthmatters]

This bill is the BILL THAT PASSED THE SENATE.

STOP LYING YOU CONS!

 

[MikeHoncho]

This bill is the senate bill WHICH PASSED THE SENATE![/QUOTE]

yes and for legislation to go through or to have changes added to it (which is the self executing and reconcilitation) you speak of have to be applied to bills already passed in the house AND senate.

nobody is debating the bill wasnt passed in the senate. it wasnt passed in the house.

 

[boedicca]

are taxes 'forced'?

the reason i ask is that every citizen has been required by law, to buy social security insurance, and forced to buy medicare insurance, with their own money, whether they agree or not, it is mandatory....or 'forced' no? it is not income taxes, to pay the bills, but specific insurance plans that we are required to buy....?

or do you see this 'different' in some manner?

Taxes are not a product or service that the government government forces an individual to purchase from a third party.

Article 1 Section 8 Clause 1:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Congress does have the power to enact taxes for the Common Defense and General Welfare - there is no mention of the power to force individuals to purchase a product or service from a private entity.

There is also the bit about "shall be uniform" which ObamaCare violates, unless they have expanded the Cornhusker kickback and Florida clauses (which if the did, would make the mess even more expensive, although I doubt they have honestly accounted for these as well).

 

[boedicca]

This bill is the BILL THAT PASSED THE SENATE.

STOP LYING YOU CONS!

Finally, perhaps you might get it.

The Bill never passed the House in the first place. Article 1 Section 7 specifies that the Bill must first be passed by The House. The Senate Bill was not based on the House Bill.

 

[Truthmatters]

This bill is the senate bill WHICH PASSED THE SENATE!

yes and for legislation to go through or to have changes added to it (which is the self executing and reconcilitation) you speak of have to be applied to bills already passed in the house AND senate.

nobody is debating the bill wasnt passed in the senate. it wasnt passed in the house.[/QUOTE]

Which is what is going to happen on suday when it is voted on through this procedure.

This bill passed the Senate and will now pass the house and be signed into law.

It is just procedurally being set up under self executing rule.

There is no differance in this and what has been done numerous times by both sides.

 

[boedicca]

Do you see how tortured you are to create a differance in what the Republicans did and the Dems may do?

Do you understand what happens when a bill that has passed both houses has to be reconciled?

They then meld the bills and then vote on it.

This bill they are self executing is the SENATE bill. That is the result of the reconciling of the two bills which both passed their bodies. That means this bill is now going to pass the house when this is voted on by the house.


The republicans have used self executing bills aplenty and your silly attempt to make this one sound like some radical change is failed.

The constitutional scholar on this subject found now silly tortured exception like you are scrambling to make up worth pointing out.

I will side with him and dump your tortured scamble to find something to make your excuses to keep Americans dying for lack of care.

Remember the founders documents do include right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

Wow.

This is so intellectually incoherent, it is difficult to know where to start.

But back to basics.

Please provide just One Example of a bill for which:

- The Senate passed a bill.
- The House then amended the Senate bill and deemed the Senate Bill passed.
- The House did not first pass the version of the bill that the Senate passed.

If, as you claim, the GOP did this on a frequent basis, you should be able to quite easily outline the history of how that bill was passed. Please provide links and sources to the .gov website.

Thank you.

 

[MikeHoncho]

This bill is the senate bill WHICH PASSED THE SENATE!

yes and for legislation to go through or to have changes added to it (which is the self executing and reconcilitation) you speak of have to be applied to bills already passed in the house AND senate.

nobody is debating the bill wasnt passed in the senate. it wasnt passed in the house.

Which is what is going to happen on suday when it is voted on through this procedure.

This bill passed the Senate and will now pass the house and be signed into law.

It is just procedurally being set up under self executing rule.

There is no differance in this and what has been done numerous times by both sides.[/QUOTE]

wait, stop, now think. ok the rules that you mention have been done before in the past by both parties....do you follow? however when used previously they were done on bills already PASSED BY THE HOUSE AND SENATE........not to pass a bill outright. they were used for modifications to an already passed bill. the fact that you cant see it is unbelievable......just look, its all right there....it was in all the examples you gave before.....they all mentioned where it was already passed in the house and senate.