Democratic Socialists, Do You Support the DSA?

[dblack]

How does that usually work out? Give us an example.

Pretty much all social decisions work voluntarily. Let's say there's we're trying to decide on whether we like blue jeans or corduroy. Rather than take a vote, and commit to one or the other, we can just let the market sort it out. Some companies will make blue jeans, some will make corduroy. Some people will buy blue jeans, some will buy corduroy. There's no need for that to be governed by majority rule. It's ok to let some people wear corduroy and some people wear blue jeans.

 

[BluesLegend]

Whatever label they adopt Dems are mooching deadbeats who want to take other people's money.

 

[struth]

i am a fan of bernie sanders, and i find nothing particularly radical or un american. in the preamble. what is the problem? too "woke" for you?

I find it unAmerican and radical because it wants to do away with the American dream, the idea of a person being able to own their own resources and property

There is nothing enlightened or woke about that

 

[mamooth]

Are you a Democratic Socialist? Does the DSA represent your views?

You seem to be having trouble locating any Democratic Socialists. That's funny, given how many of them you claim there are.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Let's say there's we're trying to decide on whether we like

men or women better?
black or white people?
progressive or flat taxes?

Rather than take a vote, and commit to one or the other, we can just let the market sort it out.

Some companies will

hire men, some women
blacks, some white
pay taxes, some won't..

Perfect!

 

[dblack]

You seem to be having trouble locating any Democratic Socialists. That's funny, given how many of them you claim there are.

Apparently, I was wrong. I've certainly had conversations here with people who claimed to be DS. Maybe they were just joshing me.

 

[struth]

You seem to be having trouble locating any Democratic Socialists. That's funny, given how many of them you claim there are.

Was the website in the OP created out of thin air?

 

[Grumblenuts]

Apparently, I was wrong. I've certainly had conversations here with people who claimed to be DS. Maybe they were just joshing me.

Maybe no one's platform fits perfectly with another's beliefs.

 

[dblack]

You seem to be having trouble locating any Democratic Socialists. That's funny, given how many of them you claim there are.

Found one! Billy000 claims to be one. It's right there under his avi.

 

[konradv]

Mkay.

Are you a Democratic Socialist?

Labels can foster mental laziness. Read my posts. They’re interesting.

 

[White 6]

Are you a Democratic Socialist? How do you define it? Are there organizations or parties that DO represent your values?

Nope. Perhaps you didn't read.

 

[dblack]

Labels can foster mental laziness. Read my posts. They’re interesting.

It's not a trick question. I'm just trying to get a handle on what people mean when the call themselves Democratic Socialists. The DSA doesn't seem to represent those I've talked to.

 

[dblack]

Nope. Perhaps you didn't read.

The "Nope" in your initial response wasn't clear. I thought you were saying that the DSA doesn't represent your views.

In any case, the thread was addressed to Democratic Socialists, so maybe your reading comprehension is the issue, eh?

 

[White 6]

The "Nope" in your initial response wasn't clear. I thought you were saying that the DSA doesn't represent your views.

In any case, the thread was addressed to Democratic Socialists, so maybe your reading comprehension is the issue, eh?

Just thought I would chime in as not a Bernie political fan.

 

[Hollie]

I wasn't at all surprised that the Dems / Socialists have largely avoided the thread. The bottom line is that no matter how much lipstick one puts on the the “democratic socialism” pig, it's still a Leninist / Stalinist based ideology. That means the Dems / Socialists prescribe that education, public services, utilities, transport, media, (especially media), are to be owned and controlled by the state.

Look at the actions, which speak with the utmost clarity, of the Dems / Socialists currently occupying the White house and the senate. The mini pretend dictator posing as the pretend president display all the attributes of a Leninist / Stalinist politburo.

Read their manifesto.

DSA Constitution & Bylaws - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

CONSTITUTION As amended by the 2023 National Convention Article I. Name The name of this organization shall be the Democratic Socialists of America, a not-for-profit corporation. Article II. Purpose We are socialists because we reject an economic order based on private profit, alienated labor...

www.dsausa.org

Article II. Purpose​

We are socialists because we reject an economic order based on private profit, alienated labor, gross inequalities of wealth and power, discrimination based on race, sex, sexual orientation, gender expression, disability status, age, religion, and national origin, and brutality and violence in defense of the status quo. We are socialists because we share a vision of a humane social order based on popular control of resources and production, economic planning, equitable distribution, feminism, racial equality and non-oppressive relationships. We are socialists because we are developing a concrete strategy for achieving that vision, for building a majority movement that will make democratic socialism a reality in America. We believe that such a strategy must acknowledge the class structure of American society and that this class structure means that there is a basic conflict of interest between those sectors with enormous economic power and the vast majority of the population.

 

[Dragonlady]

Several people here on the board describe themselves as Democratic Socialists. But there's a bit of a shell game going on with the definition. Some of them want to downplay the socialism, or the democracy, or both. They call it "compassionate capitalism" or otherwise try to spin it as not much different than what we have now. But the Democratic Socialists of America aren't so bashful. They lay out clearly the kinds of changes they want to make, and they're quite radical.

Here's their platform: DSA Political Platform - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

I'm just wondering that those of you who call yourselves Democratic Socialists think about that platform. Does it represent your overall political views and goals? Do you think the DSA is a legitimate standard bearer for democratic socialism? Or is it just a poorly named organization?

Dismantling capitalism, which isn't even mentioned in the platform. They want worker control of industry. Where do they think think this "industry" the workers are going to run, comes from? Does it appear fully formed from the air we breathe?

We have the New Democratic Party in Canada. They're basically running on the same as the American Socialist party's platform. I don't vote NDP either because they're not living in the real world.

Ready for Better: New Democrats’ Commitments to You

Ready for Better is our vision for what we believe is possible. And it is our commitment to the real results that we’re going to deliver for Canadians.

www.ndp.ca

I'm a capitalist to the core. Even as a teenager I knew communism is a dumb idea. If there isn't a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, what's the point of making the trip? Those who are smarter, harder working, have better ideas, or great talents, should be able to reap the rewards of their abilities, otherwise, why bother.

This book pretty much sums up my economic beliefs. I read it as a teenager in 1968, when it was first published - two years after Canada passed the Canada Health Act, bringing universal health care to Canadians.

Smug Minority by Pierre Berton | Penguin Random House Canada

This is a book about freedom – and the lack of it – in Canada: freedom from useless and often degrading toil, freedom from want and freedom from ignorance.

www.penguinrandomhouse.ca

The author indicts his fellow countrymen for failing to invest in human beings in the same way that they invest in power plants, highways, and gold mines. His researches into poverty in Canada and into inequalities of the educational system will shock a good many readers just as his theories on work and leisure will enrage others raised in the Calvinist ethic. The book ranges over a wide variety of topics: the hippie movement in Toronto’s Yorkville village . . . the author’s personal experiences in a Yukon mining camp . . . the future of educational television in Canada . . . the Chamber of Commerce’s abortive “Operation Freedom” campaign. But always Berton hammers on his central theme – that the nation has been held back by an inbred power-elite: “Selfish, narrow, short-sighted men unable to grasp the vision of the future, imprisoned by a bookkeeping attitude to life, creeping silently and blindly along at the tag end of the parade of progress.”

I believe in investing in your people. In their health, their education and their welfare. In providing them with the education, infrastructure and security of private property to allow them to thrive and achieve their potential. Everyone gets the opportunity. What you achieve is up to you.

I also recognize that there are some things that government can do better and cheaper than the "for profit" free market, and health care is one of them. Your for profit health care failed miserably during the pandemic. The lack of central planning made purchasing PPP, drugs and respirators impossible because there was no central record of what was available where.

In Canada, Trudeau said to the Premiers - take inventory, and tell me what you need. Health Ministries across the countries requested hospital confirm inventories and supplies needed, and feed requests to provincial Health Ministry for coodination and forwarding to the feds who coordinated ordering and had supplies requested shipped directly to the hospitals,

We never ran out of PPE, testing supplies, or respirators. We spend HALF what you do annually per patient, and our life expectancy is better than yours. And everyone in Canada is covered with no co-pays.

I don't call it "compassionate conservatism". I call it a "mixed economy". A mix of capitalism, social democracy, and enlightened self interest.

The New Deal created the greatest economy of the 20th Century, because of that fair distribution, but then taxes for the top got TOO high.

 

[rampart]

No. The alternative is voluntary collaboration, ie "no rule". Most issues in society don't requiring mandated conformity.

"voluntary collaboration?" that would be peachy, wouldn't it.

conservatives love a strong leader, while liberals favor distributed governance.

 

[mamooth]

The platform is pretty good, but I'd disagree strongly with the "Defund the Police" part. That's the worst slogan anyone on the left has ever invented, and it's cost the Democrats a lot of elections.

 

[Dragonlady]

The platform is pretty good, but I'd disagree strongly with the "Defund the Police" part. That's the worst slogan anyone on the left has ever invented, and it's cost the Democrats a lot of elections.

I like the German plan of having workers sitting on corporate boards so the workers have a voice in corporate decision making, but the workers are not going to run the factories. That's assinine.

 

[Moonglow]

i am a progressive and the only platform i fully endorse was the 1912 bull moose progressive platform.

it is on line. teddy roosevelt would have been a great president!

He was president.