Deflate-gate? Report: Patriots being investigated for using deflated footballs

[Papageorgio]

Troy Aikman: Patriots punishment should exceed Saints bounty punishment


"Aikman made an appearance on Sportsradio 1310 The Ticket on Thursday and said he believed that it is “obvious” quarterback Tom Brady was involved in deflating the footballs. He also referenced Commissioner Roger Goodell’s punishment of the Saints for running a bounty program that rewarded players for hurting opponents when explaining why he believed the Patriots needed more than the “slap on the wrist” Aikman feels they got for videotaping their opponents’ sideline in 2007."

Troy Aikman Patriots punishment should exceed Saints bounty punishment ProFootballTalk

I'm not sure what the punishment should be, but with BountyGate the only team punished was the team that got caught and most pros would tell you it went on, on a number of teams and I would be willing to bet it still does.

The PSI is regulated and should be, how much that helped or hurt any team seems to be more than verified by other QBs that retired.

The issue I have with Belichick's denial is the same one I have with Carroll's denials at USC and the Seahawks and PEDs. Those are their teams they damn well better know what is going on with their teams.

 

[HUGGY]

Oh, deflated balls and the Patriots, MUST be cheating! Couldn't possibly be anything else, even though you jerks have no evidence at all. Jerks.

 

[ChrisL]

Oh, deflated balls and the Patriots, MUST be cheating! Couldn't possibly be anything else, even though you jerks have no evidence at all. Jerks.

Did you watch the whole video? At the 45 second, a man says he doubts the Pats will have to give up a draft pick nor will it be anything like spygate.

I really only think the haters are caring SO much about this. I also heard on my local news that they were on the low end PSI to begin with and that it might be totally normal for the balls to have deflated by the time half time rolled around.

But, all you all can do is post pictures and videos and cry "cheaters!" with absolutely NO validity. THAT is what makes you dumb. I don't think the NFL is going to do too much with this. It really isn't that big a deal, regardless of how much you fairies whine.

 

[Freewill]

Please, I watched the game from beginning to end. The Pats played a better game and won.

I watched the game too. Luck is a more accurate passer than Brady. He throws a much harder pass.

Look at it from what happened in the Seahawk game. Wilson's passes kept skipping off of the hands of our receivers because the properly inflated balls were much harder to catch than the balls Brady was throwing also in rainy conditions. The balls that skipped out of our receivers hands landed into the hands of Green Bay players. The field position and change of possession cost Seattle the opportunity to sustain drives and immediately gave GB at the very least Field goals because they were already close enough when the interceptions occurred.

In the Seattle game the Hawks threw 4 ints. That's 4 lost opportunities to score and 4 gifts to GB to get points already close to the Seahawk goal line.

When it stopped raining at the end of the game in Seattle the Seahawks scored 3 TDs in around three minutes.

Oh God..nevermind. You probably have never caught a hard thrown football in the rain. You will never get it because you don't understand what I am saying and never will.

Have a nice day cupcake.

Seattle played like shit. They should have never won that game GB played not to loose at the end of the game. they thoroughly out played settled who will loose in the Superbowl

I wasn't impressed with Seattle either. They really didn't look that good out on the field, not like the Patriots anyway.

Seattle played against a much better defense then did the Pats. It was obvious throughout the game that the Colt's defense was not on the same page. I don't think this will happen in Seattle. Unless Sherman doesn't play.

Umm.....the Superbowl is in Arizona not Seattle

Please accept my fullest apologies and insert IN THE GAME WITH SEATTLE in place of in, thanks.

 

[Freewill]

Oh, deflated balls and the Patriots, MUST be cheating! Couldn't possibly be anything else, even though you jerks have no evidence at all. Jerks.

LOL

 

[ChrisL]

Seahawks Richard Sherman Nothing s going to happen after Deflategate

 

[Freewill]

Oh, deflated balls and the Patriots, MUST be cheating! Couldn't possibly be anything else, even though you jerks have no evidence at all. Jerks.

Hmmnm, reported 11 out of 12 balls were deflated after the refs checked them, yeah no evidence at all.

 

[HenryBHough]

Terrible example - CHEATING - for impressionable children (defined by law as those up to age 26)! This demands a special prosecutor with an eye toward outlawing football entirely.

There, I've played liberal activist enough for one afternoon......

 

[Freewill]

I also found this which was quite interesting.

Deflate-gate Could the weather have an effect on ball pressure nfl

Science teacher here. Given the conditions of the game, a ball which meets specifications in the locker room could easily lose enough pressure to be considered under-inflated. Some math:

• Guy-Lussac's Law describes the relationship between the pressure of a confined ideal gas and its temperature. For the sake of argument, we will assume that the football is a rigid enough container (unless a ball is massively deflated, it's volume won't change). The relationship is (P1/T1) = (P2/T2), where P is the pressure and T is the temperature in Kelvins.
  
  
• The balls are inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 psi at a temperature of 70 degrees Farenheit (294.1 K). Let's assume an average ball has a gauge pressure of 13 psi. This makes the absolute pressure of the ball 27.7 psi (gauge + atmosphere). Since these are initial values, we will call them P1 and T1.
  
  
• The game time temperature was 49 degrees F (278 K). We are attempting to solve for the new pressure at this temperature, P2. We plug everything into the equation and get (27.7/294.1) = (P2/278). At the game time temperature, the balls would have an absolute pressure of 26.2 psi and a gauge pressure of 11.5, below league specifications.

*Furthermore, given that it was raining all day, the air in the stadium was saturated with water vapor. At 70 degrees, water has a vapor pressure of 0.38 psi. The total pressure of the ball is equal to the pressure of the air inside the ball and the vaporized water in the ball. At 49 degrees, the vapor pressure of water is 0.13 psi. Up to 0.25 additional psi can be lost if the balls were inflated by either the team or the refs prior to the game. Granted, it's unlikely that anyone would inflate balls from 0, but it easily could cost another couple hundredths of a psi in pressure.

• For a ball that barely meets specifications (12.5 psi gauge), it's pressure would drop to 11.1 psi during the game... enough to be considered massively underinflated.

edit: As the poster noted below, forgot to account for the difference between gauge and absolute pressure. Calculations have been updated.

Did the Colts' balls lose that much pressure, and it was 51 as I remember.

 

[ChrisL]

The REAL reason why people hate the Patriots. So true, so true.

31 Reasons why NFL teams hate the Patriots - NFL.com

A couple of excerpts:

1. Buffalo Bills

————————————————————————————————————————————–

The Patriots had a surplus of quarterbacks after the 2001 season, so, of course, the Bills ended up with Drew Bledsoe and not Tom Brady.

————————————————————————————————————————————–

2. Miami Dolphins

————————————————————————————————————————————–

The obvious rivalry aside, to find the true root of the Dolphins’ fans hatred, you have to go back to the 1985 AFC Championship Game. The Patriots took apart the Dolphins in Miami, 31-14. The Patriots would go on to lose in Super Bowl XX to the Chicago Bears. You know, the team the Dolphins beat in the regular season and would have had a good chance of beating again in the rematch.

————————————————————————————————————————————–

3. New York Jets

————————————————————————————————————————————–

Outside of the recent beatings, Bill Belichick was the coach of the Jets, for like a day. And then he ended up with the New England Patriots. I’m not saying the Jets would have ended up with Tom Brady and three Super Bowls but, oh wait, that’s exactly what I’m saying.

————————————————————————————————————————————–

4. Baltimore Ravens

————————————————————————————————————————————–

You know, for a team that just won the Super Bowl, guys like Terrell Suggs sure are talking a lot about a team they beat in the playoffs. Apparently Brady and Co. still has space rented out between Suggs’ ears.

————————————————————————————————————————————–

5. Cincinnati Bengals

————————————————————————————————————————————–

The Bengals have no real reason to hate the Patriots, but much like how your younger siblings like the things you like and hate the things you hate, the Bengals likely hate the Patriots because the big brothers of the AFC North do. If anything, the Bengals might actually like the Patriots. If not for the Patriots, the Bengals would have the universally recognized worst uniform in the NFL. So they have that going for them.

————————————————————————————————————————————–

6. Cleveland Browns

————————————————————————————————————————————–

Belichick coached the Browns and was poised for a big 1995 season (the team started 3-1) until rumors of an impending move surfaced to ruin the team. Now, I’m not trying to say the Browns would have ended up with Tom Brady and three Super Bowl titles, but wait, that’s exactly what I’m saying.

————————————————————————————————————————————–

7. Pittsburgh Steelers

————————————————————————————————————————————–

The Patriots won two AFC Championship Games in Pittsburgh during the Brady-Belichick era. Bledsoe came off the bench to lead the Patriots over the Steelers in the 2001 AFC Championship Game (please don’t bring up the spot, Steelers fan). Brady engineered a blowout in the 2004 AFC Championship Game, with a 41-27 romp at Heinz Field.

————————————————————————————————————————————–

8. Houston Texans

————————————————————————————————————————————–

Somebody convinced the Texans it would be a cool idea to wear letterman’s jackets for a huge showdown in New England on Monday night football in Week 14. And then the Patriots made them look like a freshman squad in a 42-14 beat down. Now those jackets live in infamy in the dark closets of those Texans players or on the shelves of the Sugar Land, Texas Goodwill center.

————————————————————————————————————————————–

9. Indianapolis Colts

————————————————————————————————————————————–

Whenever the debate for best quarterback of the era heats up, Patriots fans will point out Brady has three rings to Manning’s single Super Bowl win. The Colts did exercise a matter of revenge in the 2006 AFC Championship Game, but you still get the sense Indy fans are still smarting from the dismissiveness of the Patriots fans. And judging by the number of Manning jerseys still in Indianapolis, this one isn’t going away any time soon.

————————————————————————————————————————————–

10. Jacksonville Jaguars

————————————————————————————————————————————–

The Jaguars have made the playoffs just twice since the year 2000, and both times they were eliminated by the Patriots. New England got Jacksonville, 28-3, in the 2005 wild card playoffs. The Jags were a little more competitive in the 2007 divisional round, but still lost, 31-20.

 

[ChrisL]

I also found this which was quite interesting.

Deflate-gate Could the weather have an effect on ball pressure nfl

Science teacher here. Given the conditions of the game, a ball which meets specifications in the locker room could easily lose enough pressure to be considered under-inflated. Some math:

• Guy-Lussac's Law describes the relationship between the pressure of a confined ideal gas and its temperature. For the sake of argument, we will assume that the football is a rigid enough container (unless a ball is massively deflated, it's volume won't change). The relationship is (P1/T1) = (P2/T2), where P is the pressure and T is the temperature in Kelvins.
  
  
• The balls are inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 psi at a temperature of 70 degrees Farenheit (294.1 K). Let's assume an average ball has a gauge pressure of 13 psi. This makes the absolute pressure of the ball 27.7 psi (gauge + atmosphere). Since these are initial values, we will call them P1 and T1.
  
  
• The game time temperature was 49 degrees F (278 K). We are attempting to solve for the new pressure at this temperature, P2. We plug everything into the equation and get (27.7/294.1) = (P2/278). At the game time temperature, the balls would have an absolute pressure of 26.2 psi and a gauge pressure of 11.5, below league specifications.

*Furthermore, given that it was raining all day, the air in the stadium was saturated with water vapor. At 70 degrees, water has a vapor pressure of 0.38 psi. The total pressure of the ball is equal to the pressure of the air inside the ball and the vaporized water in the ball. At 49 degrees, the vapor pressure of water is 0.13 psi. Up to 0.25 additional psi can be lost if the balls were inflated by either the team or the refs prior to the game. Granted, it's unlikely that anyone would inflate balls from 0, but it easily could cost another couple hundredths of a psi in pressure.

• For a ball that barely meets specifications (12.5 psi gauge), it's pressure would drop to 11.1 psi during the game... enough to be considered massively underinflated.

edit: As the poster noted below, forgot to account for the difference between gauge and absolute pressure. Calculations have been updated.

Did the Colts' balls lose that much pressure, and it was 51 as I remember.

As far as I'm aware, they did not and have no plans to check the Colts' balls.

 

[Freewill]

I also found this which was quite interesting.

Deflate-gate Could the weather have an effect on ball pressure nfl

Science teacher here. Given the conditions of the game, a ball which meets specifications in the locker room could easily lose enough pressure to be considered under-inflated. Some math:

• Guy-Lussac's Law describes the relationship between the pressure of a confined ideal gas and its temperature. For the sake of argument, we will assume that the football is a rigid enough container (unless a ball is massively deflated, it's volume won't change). The relationship is (P1/T1) = (P2/T2), where P is the pressure and T is the temperature in Kelvins.
  
  
• The balls are inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 psi at a temperature of 70 degrees Farenheit (294.1 K). Let's assume an average ball has a gauge pressure of 13 psi. This makes the absolute pressure of the ball 27.7 psi (gauge + atmosphere). Since these are initial values, we will call them P1 and T1.
  
  
• The game time temperature was 49 degrees F (278 K). We are attempting to solve for the new pressure at this temperature, P2. We plug everything into the equation and get (27.7/294.1) = (P2/278). At the game time temperature, the balls would have an absolute pressure of 26.2 psi and a gauge pressure of 11.5, below league specifications.

*Furthermore, given that it was raining all day, the air in the stadium was saturated with water vapor. At 70 degrees, water has a vapor pressure of 0.38 psi. The total pressure of the ball is equal to the pressure of the air inside the ball and the vaporized water in the ball. At 49 degrees, the vapor pressure of water is 0.13 psi. Up to 0.25 additional psi can be lost if the balls were inflated by either the team or the refs prior to the game. Granted, it's unlikely that anyone would inflate balls from 0, but it easily could cost another couple hundredths of a psi in pressure.

• For a ball that barely meets specifications (12.5 psi gauge), it's pressure would drop to 11.1 psi during the game... enough to be considered massively underinflated.

edit: As the poster noted below, forgot to account for the difference between gauge and absolute pressure. Calculations have been updated.

Did the Colts' balls lose that much pressure, and it was 51 as I remember.

As far as I'm aware, they did not and have no plans to check the Colts' balls.

they have to, that would prove or disprove your whole post. They can not come to a conclusion without testing the Colts' footballs, but it might be too late now. I have been reading and it wasn't just that a defender gave the ball to the equipment manager the NFL was going to investigate anyway, the Ravens ratted out the Pats.

 

[Alex.]

I also found this which was quite interesting.

Deflate-gate Could the weather have an effect on ball pressure nfl

Science teacher here. Given the conditions of the game, a ball which meets specifications in the locker room could easily lose enough pressure to be considered under-inflated. Some math:

• Guy-Lussac's Law describes the relationship between the pressure of a confined ideal gas and its temperature. For the sake of argument, we will assume that the football is a rigid enough container (unless a ball is massively deflated, it's volume won't change). The relationship is (P1/T1) = (P2/T2), where P is the pressure and T is the temperature in Kelvins.
  
  
• The balls are inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 psi at a temperature of 70 degrees Farenheit (294.1 K). Let's assume an average ball has a gauge pressure of 13 psi. This makes the absolute pressure of the ball 27.7 psi (gauge + atmosphere). Since these are initial values, we will call them P1 and T1.
  
  
• The game time temperature was 49 degrees F (278 K). We are attempting to solve for the new pressure at this temperature, P2. We plug everything into the equation and get (27.7/294.1) = (P2/278). At the game time temperature, the balls would have an absolute pressure of 26.2 psi and a gauge pressure of 11.5, below league specifications.

*Furthermore, given that it was raining all day, the air in the stadium was saturated with water vapor. At 70 degrees, water has a vapor pressure of 0.38 psi. The total pressure of the ball is equal to the pressure of the air inside the ball and the vaporized water in the ball. At 49 degrees, the vapor pressure of water is 0.13 psi. Up to 0.25 additional psi can be lost if the balls were inflated by either the team or the refs prior to the game. Granted, it's unlikely that anyone would inflate balls from 0, but it easily could cost another couple hundredths of a psi in pressure.

• For a ball that barely meets specifications (12.5 psi gauge), it's pressure would drop to 11.1 psi during the game... enough to be considered massively underinflated.

edit: As the poster noted below, forgot to account for the difference between gauge and absolute pressure. Calculations have been updated.

Did the Colts' balls lose that much pressure, and it was 51 as I remember.

As far as I'm aware, they did not and have no plans to check the Colts' balls.

"All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report."

NFL says New England Patriots had under-inflated footballs in AFC championship Game - ESPN Boston

 

[SwimExpert]

the Ravens ratted out the Pats.

Apparently, it wasn't just that. Seems the Colts already had suspicions from their game back in November, which they had already communicated to the league.

 

[Freewill]

the Ravens ratted out the Pats.

Apparently, it wasn't just that. Seems the Colts already had suspicions from their game back in November, which they had already communicated to the league.

So the NFL is onto the Pats so they check the balls 2 hours before the game and they are all OK. Then at half time they check again and only the Pats balls are low in pressure? If so then they really need to be penalized.

 

[Oldstyle]

Since every quarterback in the league appears to have a preference over the ball that "they" play with...my question to those of you that maintain that because the Colt's balls were legal when checked...that somehow proves that the Patriot's balls were purposely deflated below league standards...is how do you know what Andrew Luck's preference is for pressure? Is he like Aaron Rogers who likes his footballs over-inflated because he has big hands? Correct me if I'm wrong here but isn't Andrew Luck a rather LARGE individual? So if the balls that he sent to the officials to be inspected were in the top end of the pressure scale and subsequently lost pressure wouldn't they still be in the margin of legality? If the balls that the Patriots sent to be inspected were as under-inflated as they thought they could get away with (as is Tom Brady's preference) and then those balls lost pressure then it would stand to reason that they would no longer be in the allowable margin.

This is all taking for granted that the referee did his job correctly when he examined the 36 footballs that could be used in the game. Gee, if he didn't...is he going to admit that he kind of gave them a quick once over and thought they were fine? Is he going to do that knowing that admitting that was the case will most likely mean he never referees another big game in the NFL?

 

[Oldstyle]

the Ravens ratted out the Pats.

Apparently, it wasn't just that. Seems the Colts already had suspicions from their game back in November, which they had already communicated to the league.

So let me see if I understand how this plays out...you maintain that the Colts are suspicious of the Patriots using illegal balls from way back in November...BUT DURING THE MOST IMPORTANT GAME OF THEIR SEASON...THE GAME THAT WILL DECIDE IF THEY GO TO THE SUPER BOWL...THEY DON'T RAISE THE ISSUE WITH THE OFFICIALS UNTIL RIGHT BEFORE HALFTIME?

 

[Oldstyle]

If that WERE the case...then the entire coaching staff of the Colts should be sent packing because they are a bunch of incompetent idiots. I don't buy that story for a second however...it's so unbelievable that only the truly naive would buy into it!

 

[Oldstyle]

Which brings us back to a game where you have officials handling balls on virtually every single play of the game and none of THEM senses anything wrong with the Patriot's footballs! How is that possible? Is the officiating crew secretly all New England fans who were on the take?

 

[ChrisL]

I also found this which was quite interesting.

Deflate-gate Could the weather have an effect on ball pressure nfl

Science teacher here. Given the conditions of the game, a ball which meets specifications in the locker room could easily lose enough pressure to be considered under-inflated. Some math:

• Guy-Lussac's Law describes the relationship between the pressure of a confined ideal gas and its temperature. For the sake of argument, we will assume that the football is a rigid enough container (unless a ball is massively deflated, it's volume won't change). The relationship is (P1/T1) = (P2/T2), where P is the pressure and T is the temperature in Kelvins.
  
  
• The balls are inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 psi at a temperature of 70 degrees Farenheit (294.1 K). Let's assume an average ball has a gauge pressure of 13 psi. This makes the absolute pressure of the ball 27.7 psi (gauge + atmosphere). Since these are initial values, we will call them P1 and T1.
  
  
• The game time temperature was 49 degrees F (278 K). We are attempting to solve for the new pressure at this temperature, P2. We plug everything into the equation and get (27.7/294.1) = (P2/278). At the game time temperature, the balls would have an absolute pressure of 26.2 psi and a gauge pressure of 11.5, below league specifications.

*Furthermore, given that it was raining all day, the air in the stadium was saturated with water vapor. At 70 degrees, water has a vapor pressure of 0.38 psi. The total pressure of the ball is equal to the pressure of the air inside the ball and the vaporized water in the ball. At 49 degrees, the vapor pressure of water is 0.13 psi. Up to 0.25 additional psi can be lost if the balls were inflated by either the team or the refs prior to the game. Granted, it's unlikely that anyone would inflate balls from 0, but it easily could cost another couple hundredths of a psi in pressure.

• For a ball that barely meets specifications (12.5 psi gauge), it's pressure would drop to 11.1 psi during the game... enough to be considered massively underinflated.

edit: As the poster noted below, forgot to account for the difference between gauge and absolute pressure. Calculations have been updated.

Did the Colts' balls lose that much pressure, and it was 51 as I remember.

As far as I'm aware, they did not and have no plans to check the Colts' balls.

they have to, that would prove or disprove your whole post. They can not come to a conclusion without testing the Colts' footballs, but it might be too late now. I have been reading and it wasn't just that a defender gave the ball to the equipment manager the NFL was going to investigate anyway, the Ravens ratted out the Pats.

Well, how much time will have passed? How can that possibly give an accurate idea of anything at all? The bottom line is, this is going to be a very difficult allegation to prove!