Definitive Proof that GOD Exists?

[edthecynic]

edthecynic; et al,

Yes, it does.


(COMMENT)

Yes, what you observe might be actually be the natural order of things. We simply don't know.

Most Respectfully,
R

The natural order of chaos.

Can chaos produce order ?

Can order produce chaos ?

This can be put to the test.

It was sarcasm.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Can chaos produce order ?

Can order produce chaos ?

This can be put to the test.

Yeah, actually there are orderly patterns to chaos.

Give me some examples because I can't think of any.

The electrons position around a nucleus is random but stays within a valence shell.

The result of dice rolling is random but patterns of results are easily described mathematically.

I don't think that what people think of as real chaos actually exists anywhere, and any examples of such would be open to future mathematical description that we simply are not aware of today.

 

[edthecynic]

Yeah, actually there are orderly patterns to chaos.

Give me some examples because I can't think of any.

The electrons position around a nucleus is random but stays within a valence shell.

The result of dice rolling is random but patterns of results are easily described mathematically.

I don't think that what people think of as real chaos actually exists anywhere, and any examples of such would be open to future mathematical description that we simply are not aware of today.

Electrons can get excited and jump valence shells, how chaotic!

 

[theword]

can chaos produce order ?

Can order produce chaos ?

This can be put to the test.

yeah, actually there are orderly patterns to chaos.

give me some examples because i can't think of any.

00110100011101000100101
10111100010010010000011
01000101101111001010000
01001101110101101010010
01001000010010100001010

 

[Youwerecreated]

The natural order of chaos.

Can chaos produce order ?

Can order produce chaos ?

This can be put to the test.

It was sarcasm.

Thanks Ed it went right over my head, sorry Jim.

 

[hobelim]

It is not regarded as a fact that Christ was born on Christmas day. It is a day chosen in ancient times for convenience as it corresponded with the observable winter solstice.

And He wasn't wearing diapers, not a custom of that time.

All of which again demonstrates the ignorance you labor under and why you cant believe as you do not understand what is being discussed to begin with.

LOL... my what big teeth you have there grandpa.


do you believe that God, in the person of Jesus, was born on whatever day of the year?

Yes or no?

If so, and he was not wearing diapers as you claim, did he crap all over mother Mary and Joseph?


Or are you saying that you do not believe that Jesus was God?

You must have noticed that a few other Christians do profess to believe that.

I think at the time they put babies in 'swaddling' garments, not diapers.

And Jesus was born of woman on a specific day, yes, but He existed prior to that and voluntarily took human form.

The very notion that God took human form and was incontinent as an infant is absurd whatever they used to keep a baby tidy in the first century..

There never was and never will be a time when a human being was God or became God either before during or after their physical birth.


this is the truth, the very truth, even if it is also true that Jesus preexisted this physical life.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Hmm I think we all can agree the big bang if it happened was complete chaos.This planet came from chaos ? Hmm life came from chaos ? don't make any sense.

Design definitely seems like a more viable explanation. Not trying to be a homer !

 

[Youwerecreated]

LOL... my what big teeth you have there grandpa.


do you believe that God, in the person of Jesus, was born on whatever day of the year?

Yes or no?

If so, and he was not wearing diapers as you claim, did he crap all over mother Mary and Joseph?


Or are you saying that you do not believe that Jesus was God?

You must have noticed that a few other Christians do profess to believe that.

I think at the time they put babies in 'swaddling' garments, not diapers.

And Jesus was born of woman on a specific day, yes, but He existed prior to that and voluntarily took human form.

The very notion that God took human form and was incontinent as an infant is absurd whatever they used to keep a baby tidy in the first century..

There never was and never will be a time when a human being was God or became God either before during or after their physical birth.


this is the truth, the very truth, even if it is also true that Jesus preexisted this physical life.

Jesus the man was not in the form of God until after his resurrection. It was a lesser form of the Almighty.

I believe the The Angel of the Lord was God in a lesser form as well. Man can't see God in his full glory and live.

 

[Youwerecreated]

LOL... my what big teeth you have there grandpa.


do you believe that God, in the person of Jesus, was born on whatever day of the year?

Yes or no?

If so, and he was not wearing diapers as you claim, did he crap all over mother Mary and Joseph?


Or are you saying that you do not believe that Jesus was God?

You must have noticed that a few other Christians do profess to believe that.

I think at the time they put babies in 'swaddling' garments, not diapers.

And Jesus was born of woman on a specific day, yes, but He existed prior to that and voluntarily took human form.

The very notion that God took human form and was incontinent as an infant is absurd whatever they used to keep a baby tidy in the first century..

There never was and never will be a time when a human being was God or became God either before during or after their physical birth.


this is the truth, the very truth, even if it is also true that Jesus preexisted this physical life.

May I ask are you a believer but of Judaism?

 

[hobelim]

What is your point if you have one ?

Jesus was a child and later grew to be a man like any other child. He was 100% human.

My point is that even when I am just repeating what so called believers expect rational people to just believe, THEY DON"T BELIEVE.

The problem is that you fail to repeat the matter correctly because you have apparently not tried to understand what they believed in but only to get enough detail to mock them.

You must have noticed that some Christians believe that Jesus was a fully human third of a triune God that is really one. Some claim this God can become a lifeless matzo, literally, or that the lifeless matzo can literally become God and be eaten for spiritual life.


what's not to mock?

Why take issue with me for mocking the ridiculous as if the ridiculous should be taken seriously?

If you really believed , shouldn't you be confronting, not defending, the lies of people who spread bullshit in the name of the Lord?

 

[edthecynic]

Hmm I think we all can agree the big bang if it happened was complete chaos.This planet came from chaos ? Hmm life came from chaos ? don't make any sense.

Design definitely seems like a more viable explanation. Not trying to be a homer !

Makes more sense than "No thing (God) created everything from nothing."

 

[Youwerecreated]

My point is that even when I am just repeating what so called believers expect rational people to just believe, THEY DON"T BELIEVE.

The problem is that you fail to repeat the matter correctly because you have apparently not tried to understand what they believed in but only to get enough detail to mock them.

You must have noticed that some Christians believe that Jesus was a fully human third of a triune God that is really one. Some claim this God can become a lifeless matzo, literally, or that the lifeless matzo can literally become God and be eaten for spiritual life.


what's not to mock?

Why take issue with me for mocking the ridiculous as if the ridiculous should be taken seriously?

If you really believed , shouldn't you be confronting, not defending, the lies of people who spread bullshit in the name of the Lord?

So you don't think God ever took a lesser form ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

Hmm I think we all can agree the big bang if it happened was complete chaos.This planet came from chaos ? Hmm life came from chaos ? don't make any sense.

Design definitely seems like a more viable explanation. Not trying to be a homer !

Makes more sense than "No thing (God) created everything from nothing."

How do we know what is outside our universe ? You have to say something had to always exist to believe in the big bang or you are saying the same thing. Why are there so many theories now suggesting the infinite universes or this universe is infinite? Because they can't say everything came from nothing.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I guess nobody wants to have this discussion.

 

[edthecynic]

Hmm I think we all can agree the big bang if it happened was complete chaos.This planet came from chaos ? Hmm life came from chaos ? don't make any sense.

Design definitely seems like a more viable explanation. Not trying to be a homer !

Makes more sense than "No thing (God) created everything from nothing."

How do we know what is outside our universe ? You have to say something had to always exist to believe in the big bang or you are saying the same thing. Why are there so many theories now suggesting the infinite universes or this universe is infinite? Because they can't say everything came from nothing.

It has been proven that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. That means that energy has always existed and will always exist in the exact same total quantity. Energy is something, it is not nothing. Everything in the universe is energy in some form.

 

[edthecynic]

I guess nobody wants to have this discussion.

it's been discussed dozens of times in this and other threads. Where have you been?

 

[RoccoR]

edthecynic, Youwerecreated, et al,

I'm not sure this is the case.

I guess nobody wants to have this discussion.

it's been discussed dozens of times in this and other threads. Where have you been?

(COMMENTS)

Sometimes it is just more difficult to jump in.

v/r
R

 

[Youwerecreated]

Makes more sense than "No thing (God) created everything from nothing."

How do we know what is outside our universe ? You have to say something had to always exist to believe in the big bang or you are saying the same thing. Why are there so many theories now suggesting the infinite universes or this universe is infinite? Because they can't say everything came from nothing.

It has been proven that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. That means that energy has always existed and will always exist in the exact same total quantity. Energy is something, it is not nothing. Everything in the universe is energy in some form.

That may only apply in our universe. I have read where it has been demonstrated that matter and energy could be created for only a short period of time.

 

[hobelim]

The problem is that you fail to repeat the matter correctly because you have apparently not tried to understand what they believed in but only to get enough detail to mock them.

You must have noticed that some Christians believe that Jesus was a fully human third of a triune God that is really one. Some claim this God can become a lifeless matzo, literally, or that the lifeless matzo can literally become God and be eaten for spiritual life.


what's not to mock?

Why take issue with me for mocking the ridiculous as if the ridiculous should be taken seriously?

If you really believed , shouldn't you be confronting, not defending, the lies of people who spread bullshit in the name of the Lord?

So you don't think God ever took a lesser form ?

Of course not. I didn't stutter. There never was and there never will be a time when a human being was God or became God either before during or after their physical birth.
even when God 'appears' to a prophet there is never a visible shape or physical form.

whenever God speaks to people he chooses from among those who are closest to him to communicate with those who are far away.

This does not make the prophet, even Jesus , God.

 

[Youwerecreated]

You must have noticed that some Christians believe that Jesus was a fully human third of a triune God that is really one. Some claim this God can become a lifeless matzo, literally, or that the lifeless matzo can literally become God and be eaten for spiritual life.


what's not to mock?

Why take issue with me for mocking the ridiculous as if the ridiculous should be taken seriously?

If you really believed , shouldn't you be confronting, not defending, the lies of people who spread bullshit in the name of the Lord?

So you don't think God ever took a lesser form ?

Of course not. I didn't stutter. There never was and there never will be a time when a human being was God or became God either before during or after their physical birth.
even when God 'appears' to a prophet there is never a visible shape or physical form.

whenever God speaks to people he chooses from among those who are closest to him to communicate with those who are far away.

This does not make the prophet, even Jesus , God.

You have not answered whether you believe in Judaism or not. If you're Jewish and believe in the Hebrew God it is clear he took a lesser form. You do sound like you might be a believer of Judaism.

1. Moses was pasturing the flocks of Jethro, his father in law, the chief of Midian, and he led the flocks after the free pastureland, and he came to the mountain of God, to Horeb. א. וּמשֶׁה הָיָה רֹעֶה אֶת צֹאן יִתְרוֹ חֹתְנוֹ כֹּהֵן מִדְיָן וַיִּנְהַג אֶת הַצֹּאן אַחַר הַמִּדְבָּר וַיָּבֹא אֶל הַר הָאֱלֹהִים חֹרֵבָה:


2. An angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from within the thorn bush, and behold, the thorn bush was burning with fire, but the thorn bush was not being consumed. ב. וַיֵּרָא מַלְאַךְ יְהֹוָה אֵלָיו בְּלַבַּת אֵשׁ מִתּוֹךְ הַסְּנֶה וַיַּרְא וְהִנֵּה הַסְּנֶה בֹּעֵר בָּאֵשׁ וְהַסְּנֶה אֵינֶנּוּ אֻכָּל:



3. So Moses said, "Let me turn now and see this great spectacle why does the thorn bush not burn up?" ג. וַיֹּאמֶר משֶׁה אָסֻרָה נָּא וְאֶרְאֶה אֶת הַמַּרְאֶה הַגָּדֹל הַזֶּה מַדּוּעַ לֹא יִבְעַר הַסְּנֶה:

4. The Lord saw that he had turned to see, and God called to him from within the thorn bush, and He said, "Moses, Moses!" And he said, "Here I am!" ד. וַיַּרְא יְהֹוָה כִּי סָר לִרְאוֹת וַיִּקְרָא אֵלָיו אֱלֹהִים מִתּוֹךְ הַסְּנֶה וַיֹּאמֶר משֶׁה משֶׁה וַיֹּאמֶר הִנֵּנִי:
5. And He said, "Do not draw near here. Take your shoes off your feet, because the place upon which you stand is holy soil." ה. וַיֹּאמֶר אַל תִּקְרַב הֲלֹם שַׁל נְעָלֶיךָ מֵעַל רַגְלֶיךָ כִּי הַמָּקוֹם אֲשֶׁר אַתָּה עוֹמֵד עָלָיו אַדְמַת קֹדֶשׁ הוּא:


6. And He said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." And Moses hid his face because he was afraid to look toward God. ו. וַיֹּאמֶר אָנֹכִי אֱלֹהֵי אָבִיךָ אֱלֹהֵי אַבְרָהָם אֱלֹהֵי יִצְחָק וֵאלֹהֵי יַעֲקֹב וַיַּסְתֵּר משֶׁה פָּנָיו כִּי יָרֵא מֵהַבִּיט אֶל הָאֱלֹהִים:


Exodus - Chapter 3 (Parshah Shemot) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible