Definitive Proof that GOD Exists?

[JimBowie1958]

Another absurd ASSUMPTION based upon NOTHING but your own beliefs.

So which system of cognitive thought begins with anything other than axioms?

The scientific method for one since it always begins with a hypothesis.

So how does 'science' know that the phenomena of the universe is always capable of being expressed in human conceptual symbols such as language or mathematics?

How does a scientist know that these phenomena are not true in one place, but not true elsewhere? Or in a different period of time?

How does a scientist determine cause in a situation that is outside our time-space existence?

 

[JimBowie1958]

"supernatural" <> "natural"
"spiritual" = "nature"
"supernatural" <> "spiritual"*

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Except;

Google("spiritual supernatural natural")
Supernatural - Wikipedia ...
Wiki-
"not subject to the laws of physics"
*"In philosophy, popular culture and fiction, the supernatural is associated with the paranormal, religions and occultism."

"In Catholicism... the “Supernatural Order” is the gratuitous production, by God..."

"..."spiritual facts”...referred to as “supernatural” by those who specifically preclude the “extrinsic concurrence” of God..."

"supernatural"="religious"
{"Catholicism","Supernatural"} ={"God"}

----
Also;
Google("Natural Spiritualism")*
Wiki-
"Book searches for the two find no usage for Naturalistic Spirituality before 1956[1] whereas Spiritual Naturalism may have first been proposed by Joris-Karl Huysmans in 1895 in his book En Route - “Huysmans was the first to defect to 'Spiritual Naturalism' and eventually to a form of mysticism;"*he was followed by Maupassant:” and “In 'En Route' Huysmans started upon the creation of what he called ‘Spiritual Naturalism,’ that is, realism applied to the story of a soul. ...”.

Google("natural law in spiritual")
Natural Law in the Spiritual World

Author: Drummond, Henry (1851-1897)
As well as an evangelist and missionary, Henry Drummond was a naturalist. He studied physical and mathematical science before dedicating himself fully to Christian ministry. In 1877, he became a lecturer on natural science at the Free Church College. He used his position to share his faith as often as he could. While he studied in preparation for his lectures, Drummond wrote Natural Law in the Spiritual World, in which he explores how the world of religion and spirituality relates to the physical world. He argued that the disconnect between the spiritual and the physical was entirely illusory and that faith was by no means in conflict with science. Written just a few decades after Darwin’s landmark On the Origin of Species, Drummond’s reconciliation of the theory of evolution with God’s purposes ranks among the most important and influential books concerning Christian faith and scientific progress.*

{"Spiritual Naturalism","Joris-Karl Huysmans","mysticism"}

{"Natural Law in the Spiritual World","evangelist","Christian ministry","religion and spirituality","spiritual and the physical","Christian faith"}


-----
Ergo;

"supernatural"="spiritual"="religion"="Christian"="God"

"supernatural"="spiritual"

------

Conclusion;

If we just string enough terms together with fuzzy definitions such that they overlap, eventually we can get the "logical proof" that we want.**It's just a set theory thing where sets overlap.

a is an element of A and B. *A is like B. c is an element of B and C. B is like C. *Ergo, A is like C.

Do not highlight where*b is not an element of A and B. *A is not like B. b is an element of B and C. B is not like C. *And A <>B <> C.

Ergo, A = C

At best;
All we have to do is say spiritual is natural, that God is natural, therefore physical. *Just ignore the "subject to the laws of physics" part. Then we can say "subjective" is "objective" and we have proof. *Afterall, people are naturally subjective and spiritual.

At worst;
The language is meaningless as there is no distinction between "natural", "physical", "objective", "spiritual", "subjective" which means words can be strung together in any *manner we want and everything is "logical"

Why not, afterall subjective natural, nature is physical, physical is objective. *So, subjective is objective. Formal proofs and informal proofs ar proofs therefore informal proofs are formal*proofs.

And that is, at least, my subjective opinion which by definition cannot be prove wrong and is therefore right. *Given that subjective is objective as subjective is natural, then it is naturally physical and a lack of proof of not being subject to the laws of nature is a failure to prove what is already locigally deduced.

That is bullshit and you know it.

Why do you waste everyones time, except to entertain your fellow nihilists?

BTW, do you think that human memory exists?

if it's a waste of time, why the **** do you keep replying, are you this stupid everyday or do you take weekends off?

Not everything is a waste of time, though some specific cases are.

 

[JimBowie1958]

only in the minds of humans with the exception of writing film or video.

So if human memories exist only in the mind of the person, then does it really exist? Does pi really exist? Does the National Debt really exist? Does love really exist?

the odd thing about that is humans usually remember those pov's more often then the total event...

lol, there are a great many oddities to humanity, and that is a good thing.

yes in the mind it does but only there everything else a crude facsimile of them.
Pi is a construct so by definition it only exists as an idea.
the national debt is also a construct all money earned or owed is .
credit cards and electronic transfers are far easier to use then a heard of sheep or a bushel of corn.
love is a chemical reaction as we are 99% chemical that should be no surprise to any one.

Love is more than just a chemical reaction as it is not yet accurately described by chemistry. Some people fall in love with people who are fat, or ugly or just reprehensible. Love has chemistry involved, but it is not the mere result of chemistry and the variance is so large, chemistry will never fully describe love or take its wide variance into account.


And as to these things like pi and the national debt only 'existing in the mind or as an idea', how is that existence different from the physical existence of an object in terms of it being part of reality?

Pi will never change, so is it any less real than what makes a can a can or a nail a nail?

 

[JimBowie1958]

I really don't understand how you people extrapolate this stuff from what I say.

Because most of them don't give a flying **** about the discussion. They are so locked into their own hubris they cant imagine possibly being wrong. They are just so damned smart, how could they be wrong? /s

Finally, there is no presupposition here, I don't have a hidden religious agenda. You people seem to be very paranoid about this, and I have addressed it repeatedly throughout this thread. I am not a Christian, I am not a religious person. Religious people call me an Atheist because I don't subscribe to their incarnations of god. Now... here's the deal, if I really AM a Christian trying to play tricks on you, then I have inadvertently condemned myself to eternal damnation by denying Christ. Why in the hell would I do this, just to trick you? It makes no sense at all. If I really were a Christian believer in the Bible, I would have NO inclination to deny it, and I would spend a lot of time defending and supporting the Biblical incarnation of god in this thread, that's not happening. You can cajole me and ridicule all you like, but you're barking up the wrong tree.

You have them paranoid about whether they have to get more astroturfers on the thread to shout you down and k ill the thread with red herrings and bullshit.

really from my pov the only posters that appear to be agitated or you and boss.
you, because failing and unnecessary political shots are all you seem to do. . with some occasional brownnosing for flavor.

Then you plainly are not reading my posts with an open mind, because though the elements you observe are in there, true, that is not all that is in my posts thus far.

 

[Boss]

really from my pov the only posters that appear to be agitated or you and boss.

I missed this little gem. Daws, I assure you, I am not the least bit agitated. I am at peace with my spiritual self, you are the one who seems agitated to me.

This brings up another aspect regarding spirituality, the people who are connected spiritually, are happier, more content, mentally stable, healthier, and less likely to be addicted to alcohol and drugs or commit suicide.

 

[numan]

really from my pov the only posters that appear to be agitated or you and boss.

I missed this little gem. Daws, I assure you, I am not the least bit agitated. I am at peace with my spiritual self, you are the one who seems agitated to me.

This brings up another aspect regarding spirituality, the people who are connected spiritually, are happier, more content, mentally stable, healthier, and less likely to be addicted to alcohol and drugs or commit suicide.

And that is the reason, for centuries, they have been helling around the world murdering and torturing people for their opinions, forcing people to agree with them, standing in the way of education and reason, and filling the mental wards and streets with people afflicted with religious mania?
.

 

[BreezeWood]

really from my pov the only posters that appear to be agitated or you and boss.

I missed this little gem. Daws, I assure you, I am not the least bit agitated. I am at peace with my spiritual self, you are the one who seems agitated to me.

This brings up another aspect regarding spirituality, the people who are connected spiritually, are happier, more content, mentally stable, healthier, and less likely to be addicted to alcohol and drugs or commit suicide.

And that is the reason, for centuries, they have been helling around the world murdering and torturing people for their opinions, forcing people to agree with them, standing in the way of education and reason, and filling the mental wards and streets with people afflicted with religious mania?
.

- isn't that prefaced not by Spiritualist but by the pseudo as Bibelist and Similar inebriated by self-serving Text - Tree(s) of Forbidden Fruits rather than to a connection greater than self ?

 

[daws101]

I missed this little gem. Daws, I assure you, I am not the least bit agitated. I am at peace with my spiritual self, you are the one who seems agitated to me.

This brings up another aspect regarding spirituality, the people who are connected spiritually, are happier, more content, mentally stable, healthier, and less likely to be addicted to alcohol and drugs or commit suicide.

And that is the reason, for centuries, they have been helling around the world murdering and torturing people for their opinions, forcing people to agree with them, standing in the way of education and reason, and filling the mental wards and streets with people afflicted with religious mania?
.

- isn't that prefaced not by Spiritualist but by the pseudo as Bibelist and Similar inebriated by self-serving Text - Tree(s) of Forbidden Fruits rather than to a connection greater than self ?

no...ever heard the term the spirit moved me ?

 

[Derideo_Te]

really from my pov the only posters that appear to be agitated or you and boss.

I missed this little gem. Daws, I assure you, I am not the least bit agitated. I am at peace with my spiritual self, you are the one who seems agitated to me.

This brings up another aspect regarding spirituality, the people who are connected spiritually, are happier, more content, mentally stable, healthier, and less likely to be addicted to alcohol and drugs or commit suicide.

Strange that someone who claims not to be "agitated" and "at peace" with his "spiritual self" has to make such frequent use of profanities.

Once again you your own hole ever deeper with your tissue of lies.

 

[daws101]

really from my pov the only posters that appear to be agitated or you and boss.

I missed this little gem. Daws, I assure you, I am not the least bit agitated. I am at peace with my spiritual self, you are the one who seems agitated to me.

This brings up another aspect regarding spirituality, the people who are connected spiritually, are happier, more content, mentally stable, healthier, and less likely to be addicted to alcohol and drugs or commit suicide.

Strange that someone who claims not to be "agitated" and "at peace" with his "spiritual self" has to make such frequent use of profanities.

Once again you your own hole ever deeper with your tissue of lies.

imo it's not the profanities but the walls of text that give him away .
or maybe he drinks too many Starbucks macho grandes ?

 

[Derideo_Te]

I missed this little gem. Daws, I assure you, I am not the least bit agitated. I am at peace with my spiritual self, you are the one who seems agitated to me.

This brings up another aspect regarding spirituality, the people who are connected spiritually, are happier, more content, mentally stable, healthier, and less likely to be addicted to alcohol and drugs or commit suicide.

Strange that someone who claims not to be "agitated" and "at peace" with his "spiritual self" has to make such frequent use of profanities.

Once again you your own hole ever deeper with your tissue of lies.

imo it's not the profanities but the walls of text that give him away .
or maybe he drinks too many Starbucks macho grandes ?

The profanities expose his frustration that no one is buying his drivel. The endless screeds are more to convince himself that there is some "justification" for his nonsense. He strikes me as someone who suffers from an addictive personality disorder so you could be right about the caffeine overdosing.

 

[Boss]

really from my pov the only posters that appear to be agitated or you and boss.

I missed this little gem. Daws, I assure you, I am not the least bit agitated. I am at peace with my spiritual self, you are the one who seems agitated to me.

This brings up another aspect regarding spirituality, the people who are connected spiritually, are happier, more content, mentally stable, healthier, and less likely to be addicted to alcohol and drugs or commit suicide.

Strange that someone who claims not to be "agitated" and "at peace" with his "spiritual self" has to make such frequent use of profanities.

Once again you your own hole ever deeper with your tissue of lies.

I use profanities for effect, which obviously works, hence your response.

Remember, I don't believe in god of religion, I believe in god of nature. My god doesn't frown upon use of profanities. So sorry that your self-righteous piety doesn't work on me.. go attack a Christian with it.

 

[Boss]

imo it's not the profanities but the walls of text that give him away .
or maybe he drinks too many Starbucks macho grandes ?

Okay, so now whenever someone thoroughly explains their views, that is an indication they are clueless? To bad my "walls of text" are too high for your stupid ass to climb or tear down. I guess you'll just have to sit down and play with your fellow monkey, Dorito, and pretend you are somebody.

 

[Boss]

really from my pov the only posters that appear to be agitated or you and boss.

I missed this little gem. Daws, I assure you, I am not the least bit agitated. I am at peace with my spiritual self, you are the one who seems agitated to me.

This brings up another aspect regarding spirituality, the people who are connected spiritually, are happier, more content, mentally stable, healthier, and less likely to be addicted to alcohol and drugs or commit suicide.

And that is the reason, for centuries, they have been helling around the world murdering and torturing people for their opinions, forcing people to agree with them, standing in the way of education and reason, and filling the mental wards and streets with people afflicted with religious mania?
.

I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Christianity, as I understand it, is a religion of acceptance, it can't be "forced upon you" by other Christians. You have to accept that Jesus is your savior, and if you don't, you can never be a Christian. But religion is a distraction in this debate, as you and other repeatedly demonstrate. Religions are the manifestation of human spiritual connection, and actually serve to prove my point, that humans DO spiritually connect to something. Perhaps they get it wrong, perhaps they don't fully understand the spiritual nature they connect to, but they most certainly DO make some connection, and always have.

 

[Boss]

The profanities expose his frustration that no one is buying his drivel. The endless screeds are more to convince himself that there is some "justification" for his nonsense. He strikes me as someone who suffers from an addictive personality disorder so you could be right about the caffeine overdosing.

Nonsense. You don't accept my argument and call it "drivel" because you refuse to accept spiritual nature. You and daws aren't "everyone" by a LONG shot. In fact, you are only among the 5% of humans who are Nihilistic, so very clearly in the minority when it comes to spirituality. Of course, I tried to save you a lot of time and trouble in the OP, by pointing this out, that you will never be able to answer the thread question because you refuse to accept spiritual evidence. I never expected anything I had to say would change your closed minds, so why would you think I am frustrated? I think it is hilarious you believe I am frustrated, almost as hilarious as you jumping on your moral high horse, and chastising me for cursing. Next thing you know, you'll be lamenting how I am destined for hell because I've been mean to you. lol

 

[daws101]

imo it's not the profanities but the walls of text that give him away .
or maybe he drinks too many Starbucks macho grandes ?

Okay, so now whenever someone thoroughly explains their views, that is an indication they are clueless? To bad my "walls of text" are too high for your stupid ass to climb or tear down. I guess you'll just have to sit down and play with your fellow monkey, Dorito, and pretend you are somebody.

another one of the million false assumptions you'll make today.
I have no problem being somebody I was born that way.
you on the other hand must have a problem with not being somebody. trying to make up for not being one of the cool kids ?

 

[Boss]

imo it's not the profanities but the walls of text that give him away .
or maybe he drinks too many Starbucks macho grandes ?

Okay, so now whenever someone thoroughly explains their views, that is an indication they are clueless? To bad my "walls of text" are too high for your stupid ass to climb or tear down. I guess you'll just have to sit down and play with your fellow monkey, Dorito, and pretend you are somebody.

another one of the million false assumptions you'll make today.
I have no problem being somebody I was born that way.
you on the other hand must have a problem with not being somebody. trying to make up for not being one of the cool kids ?

No, you were born a spiritual somebody, you have succeeded in becoming a Nihilist nobody... worm food in the making. I never needed or wanted to be one of the cool kids, but then, I never lost my spiritual connection. When you have no spiritual connection, being one of the cool kids is important and meaningful. This is why you place so much stock in such things. The problem with being a cool kid is this, one day you wake up and you're not a kid or cool anymore, you are just pathetic. #wellonyourway

 

[newpolitics]

and this confirms god? no. this only confirms human existential insecurity, and the emotional need for a greater explanation to sooth the unanswerable. That's all you have.

 

[Boss]

and this confirms god? no. this only confirms human existential insecurity, and the emotional need for a greater explanation to sooth the unanswerable. That's all you have.

Since there is no example or physical evidence that any other living thing emotionally needs a greater explanation to sooth the unanswerable, it is reasonable to believe this stems from our ability to spiritually connect. You have not demonstrated otherwise, and you can't.

You keep wanting to point to these things that our spirituality causes, as the reasons for our spirituality, and you literally have to abandon scientific principles to do so.

 

[Hollie]

and this confirms god? no. this only confirms human existential insecurity, and the emotional need for a greater explanation to sooth the unanswerable. That's all you have.

Since there is no example or physical evidence that any other living thing emotionally needs a greater explanation to sooth the unanswerable, it is reasonable to believe this stems from our ability to spiritually connect. You have not demonstrated otherwise, and you can't.

You keep wanting to point to these things that our spirituality causes, as the reasons for our spirituality, and you literally have to abandon scientific principles to do so.

What nonsense. Much of what was “unanswerable”, (natural phenomenon), was the cause and motivation for humans to invent various gawds. Fear and superstition was the engine that drove the invention of gawds. And yes, you literally have to abandon scientific principles to believe that Zeus is the capo of a syndicate of other gawds ruling natural events.

Thus, gawd(s), Jinn, devils, the “risen from the dead”, etc., etc., replete with flying winged men in nightgowns, fat naked babies playing harps, chariots of fire cruising through the clouds, that seas part and books predict the end of the world? All the now thoroughly discredited excuses to commit our logic and reason to be discarded in favor “because I say so”.