Deep State ... What Be It ?

[Oddball]

Listen to Ike’s speech from 1960. He spells it out rather well.

He's foolish enough to think that the police/spook state and the military/industrial complex are subordinate to the ruling class, when in fact they're partners in crime.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Your need for a more expansive and convoluted explanation is your problem.

The military and police state are just a couple other bloated bureaucratic gubmint bureaucracies, which don't differ in nature form the domestic parasites.

How, you naively ask, do the Wall Street banksters get involved and support this decidedly unpatriotic and malignant mob?....Easy....They're the ones with the guns and the license to use them in a proactive manner against the peasants.....That's how empires work.

You are pretty ignorant if you think we live in a “military” or “police state.” Maybe your inability to use language clearly is the problem. I do get you don’t like “bureaucratic gubmint bureaucracies” which “don’t differ from the domestic [?] parasites.”

You go on in your 2nd paragraph to make even less sense, except to mention we live in an “empire” … of some apparently generic sort. I assure you Wall Street bankers don’t have to carry guns more than anybody else, and are in any case not “licensed” to go fight either domestically or overseas in wars against poor peasants.

In short, your own “wall of text” is a remarkably shoddy construct, and no answer to my own specific questions about the real nature of your postulated partisan and unpatriotic “Deep State.”

 

[Oddball]

You are pretty ignorant if you think we live in a “military” or “police state.”

You're pretty ignorant to believe we don't.

Maybe your inability to use language clearly is the problem. I do get you don’t like “bureaucratic gubmint bureaucracies” which “don’t differ from the domestic [?] parasites.”

Maybe your inability to comprehend clear language is the problem.

You go on in your 2nd paragraph to make even less sense, except to mention we live in an “empire” … of some apparently generic sort. I assure you Wall Street bankers don’t carry guns and are not “licensed” to go fight either domestically or overseas in wars against poor peasants.

Wow, I was right....You really aren't very bright in the least....I said they're working hand-in-glove with those who do have the guns and a monopoly on the proactive use of them; i.e. The State.

In short, your own “wall of text” is a remarkably shoddy construct, and no answer to my own specific questions about the real nature of your postulated partisan and unpatriotic “Deep State.”

In short, you're a total fucking sap, who believes everything is just as the teevee tells him it is.

 

[Foolardi]

Whine all you want. There is no Deep State.

If there wasn't a Deep State is akin to confirmation that
Joe Biden is NOT Infirmed.Or THE Oldest of all Presidents.
Okey Dokey try unravelling that firm fact.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

The U.S. “empire” grew primarily out of WWII and the later collapse of the Soviet Union. The democratic and representative republics in West Europe and Japan and eventually South Korea and Taiwan and Eastern Europe and other places as well are now internally stable allies (and often economic competitors) of the U.S.A. This would all have been inconceivable without Wall Street, U.S. capitalism, and our military state power exercised overseas.

Over most of this whole period the U.S. standard of living continued improving dramatically, as did technology, science, and average life quality, while whole previously segregated and oppressed sections of society were integrated and given equal civil rights.

New problems we have, of course. But our national power and economic power were crucial to world development in preventing fascism and far worse forms of imperialist oppression. Our “empire” is not colonial and has allowed for some even non-democratic societies to develop dramatically … while most Americans hoped that would change them internally. Not everything works out as we would like, but we should not get hysterical about setbacks or seek imaginary partisan scapegoats.

Even in our traditional Monroe Doctrine backyard, South America, there are today developing countries that are integrated (if necessarily subject) parts of the world capitalist empire (trading with China) that the U.S. is struggling to remain in control of. Mistakes have been made. A few horrendous wars we have engaged in unnecessarily. We are still arrogant and often too quick to bully and sanction. But the U.S. “empire” abroad has been far better than those that would have and indeed partly were imposed by Hitler, Stalin and Japan.

Was our “Deep State” Wall Street empire wrong when Eisenhower was a Five Star General imposing by force U.S. power? Should he and it have laid down before Hitler, then Stalin? In 2022 should we have done nothing in the face of Putin’s invasion of independent Ukraine? Can we simply beat our swords into plowshares today?

P.S. I’ve always admired Eisenhower for his warning during the Cold War about the threat to our own democracy constituted by a huge Military Industrial Complex. Of course that didn’t prevent him from making his own mistakes, for example in Indochina, where his Cold War instincts led him to support total financial and military aid to the French, after to reject a popular vote that would have led HoChiMinh to take power, and then led to our own calamitous Vietnam War.

 

[JoeB131]

ts funny how often those labeled conspiracy theorists turn out to be right. After all the lies with Covid and the vax, I’d have thought you’d catch on by now.

Repeating your crazy often enough doesn't make it true.

The reality is, once the vaccine became widely available, Covid Cases dropped like a stone, which is why you barely hear about it anymore in this country.

 

[JoeB131]

Of course it has been around for decades. Ike warned about it in his farewell speech in 1960.

And people have been taking that one line out of context for 63 years.

Ike was actually criticizing bloated military spending, and that too many companies were too comfortable producing products for the military rather than consumer goods. He originally wanted to say "Congressional-Military-Industrial Complex" to criticize Congress's role in that, but his advisor talked him out of it because they didn't want to antagonize Congress.And that made sense when military spending was over 11% of GDP during his presidency and had hit 44% of GDP during WWII.

Today military spending is 3% of GDP.

Final note. You look at how completely articulate Ike was, and then look at an absolute buffoon like Trump, and you can see where this country went wrong. It wasn't because of a shadowy deep state, it was because of the kinds of leaders we pick.

 

[rightwinger]

Conservatives live in a fantasy world of Deep States, stolen elections, fake news and evil vaccines

 

[gipper]

And people have been taking that one line out of context for 63 years.

Ike was actually criticizing bloated military spending, and that too many companies were too comfortable producing products for the military rather than consumer goods. He originally wanted to say "Congressional-Military-Industrial Complex" to criticize Congress's role in that, but his advisor talked him out of it because they didn't want to antagonize Congress.And that made sense when military spending was over 11% of GDP during his presidency and had hit 44% of GDP during WWII.

Today military spending is 3% of GDP.

Final note. You look at how completely articulate Ike was, and then look at an absolute buffoon like Trump, and you can see where this country went wrong. It wasn't because of a shadowy deep state, it was because of the kinds of leaders we pick.

Apparently you are so uninformed you aren’t even aware of a president’s warning of the deep state in FUCKING 1960.

Get informed before posting. This works better that way.

 

[gipper]

Conservatives live in a fantasy world of Deep States, stolen elections, fake news and evil vaccines

You guys don’t even know what the deep state is, but you’re convinced it doesn’t exist.

This is yet another issue in which Trump broke the left’s brains. Prior to Trump I suspect most on the left knew of the deep state.

 

[rightwinger]

You guys don’t even know what the deep state is, but you’re convinced it doesn’t exist.

This is yet another issue in which Trump broke the left’s brains. Prior to Trump I suspect most on the left knew of the deep state.

I agree
I don’t know what the DEEP STATE is, maybe you could explain it

Start with its mission, organizational structure, leadership, how it communicates with members….

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

If there wasn't a Deep State is akin to confirmation that
Joe Biden is NOT Infirmed.Or THE Oldest of all Presidents.
Okey Dokey try unravelling that firm fact.

Go take a logic class, please.

 

[rightwinger]

Apparently you are so uninformed you aren’t even aware of a president’s warning of the deep state in FUCKING 1960.

Get informed before posting. This works better that way.

Ike made his statement about the power of the Military Industrial Complex 63 years ago. That is the best proof you have of a DEEP STATE?

I worked with the Military Industrial Complex for 40 years. I saw what they could do and what they couldn’t do in terms of influencing government decisions.
They had influence with members of Congress and at times were able to get contracts for equipment the military really didn’t want. But I also saw where powerful contractors did not get what they demanded.

That in no way proves there is a powerful cabal secretly running the government

 

[JoeB131]

Apparently you are so uninformed you aren’t even aware of a president’s warning of the deep state in FUCKING 1960.

Get informed before posting. This works better that way.

I can't really waste my time of getting into your paranoid world of Trilateralists and Lizard People.

 

[leftwinger]

Look no further than todays' FBI for your example of Deep State. Even rank and file the are repulsed by Wray and his criminal actions.....they carry on, carry it out as they are part of "it" now. The Pension also. It is them vs. us............as they are schooled.

 

[rightwinger]

Look no further than todays' FBI for your example of Deep State. Even rank and file the are repulsed by Wray and his criminal actions.....they carry on, carry it out as they are part of "it" now. The Pension also. It is them vs. us............as they are schooled.

Wray was selected by Trump to replace the guy he kicked out. How can he be Deep State?
FBI still has to follow existing laws

 

[Oddball]

The U.S. “empire” grew primarily out of WWII and the later collapse of the Soviet Union. The democratic and representative republics in West Europe and Japan and eventually South Korea and Taiwan and Eastern Europe and other places as well are now internally stable allies (and often economic competitors) of the U.S.A. This would all have been inconceivable without Wall Street, U.S. capitalism, and our military state power exercised overseas.

The logical fallacy of government solipitence....The foolhardy presumption that these things wouldn't have happened in the absence of The State imposing them.

Over most of this whole period the U.S. standard of living continued improving dramatically, as did technology, science, and average life quality

Not difficult, when you've bombed all economic competitors back to pre-industrial times.

New problems we have, of course. But our national power and economic power were crucial to world development in preventing fascism and far worse forms of imperialist oppression. Our “empire” is not colonial and has allowed for some even non-democratic societies to develop dramatically … while most Americans hoped that would change them internally. Not everything works out as we would like, but we should not get hysterical about setbacks or seek imaginary partisan scapegoats.

That's why we have military bases in over 100 nations..."Not colonial"....lmao

Even in our traditional Monroe Doctrine backyard, South America, there are today developing countries that are integrated (if necessarily subject) parts of the world capitalist empire (trading with China) that the U.S. is struggling to remain in control of. Mistakes have been made. A few horrendous wars we have engaged in unnecessarily. We are still arrogant and often too quick to bully and sanction. But the U.S. “empire” abroad has been far better than those that would have and indeed partly were imposed by Hitler, Stalin and Japan.

False dichotomy and begging the question fallacies....No doubt that Hitler, Stalin, and the Emperor would be saying the same things, had they won and imposed their empires upon the rest of the world.

Was our “Deep State” Wall Street empire wrong when Eisenhower was a Five Star General imposing by force U.S. power? Should he and it have laid down before Hitler, then Stalin? In 2022 should we have done nothing in the face of Putin’s invasion of independent Ukraine? Can we simply beat our swords into plowshares today?

Begging the question fallacy, again.

P.S. I’ve always admired Eisenhower for his warning during the Cold War about the threat to our own democracy constituted by a huge Military Industrial Complex. Of course that didn’t prevent him from making his own mistakes, for example in Indochina, where his Cold War instincts led him to support total financial and military aid to the French, after to reject a popular vote that would have led HoChiMinh to take power, and then led to our own calamitous Vietnam War.

Whataboutism.

I was right....You're really not at all bright, and trying to disguise it through verbosity isn't working.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Wray was selected by Trump to replace the guy he kicked out. How can he be Deep State?
FBI still has to follow existing laws

Right. And we all know Donald Trump only picks “the best people.”

My guess is our Trumptards will not be happy until their hero is back in power breaking laws and appointing criminals like Roger Stone & Steve Bannon or lunatics like Mike Lindell & Rudy Giuliani to run our top Security Agencies!

 

[Oddball]

Right. And we all know Donald Trump only picks “the best people.”

My guess is our Trumptards will not be happy until their hero is back in power with criminals like Roger Stone & Steve Bannon or lunatics like Mike Lindell & Rudy Giuliani to running our top Security Agencies.

The banal leading the banal....

 

[Foxfyre]

Short of a brochure or 5 minute commercial by maybe a
spokesman known for Integrity.
Like a Paul Harvey.Or Rush Limbaugh.Or now Mark levin.
Not a Hugh Hewitt.He caves faster than a fly on the wall in
some basement as winter makes it's first appearance.
Plus he has a really bad habit of introducing guests to his
first of the day Salem RAdio broadcast by uttering ..." How R Ya "
I mean,talk about a male cheerleader for
someone like LeBron James { definatley No academic }.
The Hewitt lives to talk smart.Seem smart.Plus admits just a day or two
ago that he does not want to See Joe Biden Indicted in any way.
Could explain his Washington Post paycheck each week or month.
Could explain why both Rush Limbaugh AND Mark Levin never
mentioned the Warren,O. { Harvard Grad } Mush.Plus being an
admitted Bad spelled { Because he's an Ohioan }.
No ... Try Weenie Boy.
The Deep State are people,typically influential members of
government involved { now no longer disputed but Believed }
INVOLVED in control { try manipulating } U.S. Government
and Policy.

The Deep State does exist and is growing large fangs and hair
places not meant for most males.Like The Hewitt would dare
leave home w/o a shave.Again ... Weenie anyone.
All his infernal Relied Factor won't help Hugh Hewitt once he
gets to flap'n his controlled Salem Radio yapper.

In my opinion the deep state is a network of shadowy influential operatives--I say shadowy not because some are not well known but because they work out of view of any scrutiny--whose purpose is to direct, engineer, aid and abet a specific agenda and undermine or destroy anything and anybody who is at cross purposes with that agenda.

They work hand in hand with whatever government staffers or employees that are sympathetic to their cause, almost certainly with some members of congress, with big money donors, and many with influence in media, social media, education, scientific institutions, big business, and most likely entertainment and religion.

Loosely defined, it is basically 'the swamp.'

Certainly not all associated with any of those things, not even most of those who share the agenda, are 'deep state.' But I believe it exists and, in its current form, is anti-American, anti-constitutional restraints, anti-American values, pro one world government and total control of the people.