Decided to Become a Liberal

[☭proletarian☭]

I have decided to become a liberal, but I don't know what the complete process is.

Can you liberals suggest my plan of action from this point on?

I need to learn how to do it right.

Start with a lobotomy. After that, everything will be crystal clear.

Nice one, Poe

 

[☭proletarian☭]

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What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then ... we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal." [JFK September 14, 1960]


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So what your saying is what we mean by liberal is conservative, then you are proud to be a liberal.

Id be proud in that case too.

What was JFK's tax policy again?

Liberalism is an ideology. Conservatism is not. Conservatism means 'ignorant reactionary and tool of those in power or recently booted out' and nothing more.

Again, I refer you to Locke and Hume.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Capitalism (i.e. generating Profits) has enabled far more people to raise themselves up and better their lives than any other system ever tried.

Really? Want to see unabashed Capitalism at work? Read The Condition of the Working Class in England in 1844. America is a Socialist society, per the definition of the stage of socioeconomic development called Socialism by Marx and as the term continues to be used in Marxian thought and writings. Americans are much better off for it- consider OSHA, child labour laws, the 40-hour work week, disability insurance... Not to mention public firefighting services (private companies were a disaster).

I swear I've explained this to you all before....

The biggest misery has been inforced by totalitarian statists who think that From Each According To His Ability To Each According To His Need is more moral than self-sufficiency.

It's more moral to let a crippled man starve than to give him some of your extra bread?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

You want an education regarding economics, PC? Read Engels, Marx, Ludwig von Mises, Thomas, E. Woods, Garrison, Jevons, your choice of material from this list, and that dimwit Keyens. Hell, ifyou really wantsome laughs, read that retard Ricardo or whatever his nam,e was.

It will easily become apparent who knew what they were talking about (mostly the Austrians, although Marx, Engels, and others provide valid warnings about why the capitalist beast must always be muzzled.)

America has succeeded not because of unabashed capitalism, but because the capitalist beast ias kept muzzled and upon a short leash. Left alone, this beast enslaves, oppresses, and exploits the common man to line the pockets of the capitalist and the politician. Neocolonialism and its sister Globalism are the natural spawn of capitalism left to its own devices. To achieve a prosperous and egalitarian civilization, the market must be watched closely, the capitalist must be ever under the threat of having his head removed, the records of the bankers must be forcefully put into the open for all to review, the State and the Union must stand beside the labourer in order to ensure his safety. Those who use cadmium and lead in their products must be forcefully imprisoned or denied any right at all to to enter the market.

Only then can any but the bourgeoisie be safe, secure, and prosperous in what necessarily must become pseudo-capitalist society.

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[momonkey]

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What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then ... we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal." [JFK September 14, 1960]


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Maybe I'm getting old?

I haven't seen a new idea in a long, long time.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to list some of these "new" liberal ideas.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Liberalism is an ideology. Conservatism is not. Conservatism means 'ignorant reactionary and tool of those in power or recently booted out' and nothing more.

Again, I refer you to Locke and Hume.

and a liberal is not a tool of those in power?......ok.....

 

[midcan5]

I have decided to become a liberal, but I don't know what the complete process is.

Can you liberals suggest my plan of action from this point on?

I need to learn how to do it right.

"Liberals demand that the social order should in principle be capable of explaining itself at the tribunal of each person's understanding." Jeremy Waldron


There was a time I used to think a good well reasoned argument could convince people of something I thought important. But as you get older you realize that thought is not rational. Reality is a mental construct and as such you may be incapable of the level of thought, tolerance, flexibility to be a liberal. It is like being religious or being close minded or being what we used to call sick in the head. Not everyone can face life as change as growth as movement from here to there, not everyone can deal with something different than what they are used to.

Good article below, and check out John Rawls, Isaiah Berlin, Bernard Williams, Ronald Dworkin, and Jeremy Waldron. Just a few liberals that are excellent.

Oh and good luck.

Topic Galleries -- chicagotribune.com

'What it means to be a liberal'

By Geoffrey R. Stone. Geoffrey R. Stone, a law professor at the University of Chicago, is the author of "Perilous Times: Free Speech in Wartime."

October 10, 2006

For most of the past four decades, liberals have been in retreat. Since the election of Richard Nixon in 1968, Republicans have controlled the White House 70 percent of the time and Republican presidents have made 86 percent of the U.S. Supreme Court appointments. In many quarters, the word "liberal" has become a pejorative. Part of the problem is that liberals have failed to define themselves and to state clearly what they believe. As a liberal, I find that appalling.

In that light, I thought it might be interesting to try to articulate 10 propositions that seem to me to define "liberal" today. Undoubtedly, not all liberals embrace all of these propositions, and many conservatives embrace at least some of them.

Moreover, because 10 is a small number, the list is not exhaustive. And because these propositions will in some instances conflict, the "liberal" position on a specific issue may not always be predictable. My goal, however, is not to end discussion, but to invite debate.

1. Liberals believe individuals should doubt their own truths and consider fairly and open-mindedly the truths of others. This is at the very heart of liberalism. Liberals understand, as Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes once observed, that "time has upset many fighting faiths." Liberals are skeptical of censorship and celebrate free and open debate.

2. Liberals believe individuals should be tolerant and respectful of difference. It is liberals who have supported and continue to support the civil rights movement, affirmative action, the Equal Rights Amendment and the rights of gays and lesbians. (Note that a conflict between propositions 1 and 2 leads to divisions among liberals on issues like pornography and hate speech.)

3. Liberals believe individuals have a right and a responsibility to participate in public debate. It is liberals who have championed and continue to champion expansion of the franchise; the elimination of obstacles to voting; "one person, one vote;" limits on partisan gerrymandering; campaign-finance reform; and a more vibrant freedom of speech. They believe, with Justice Louis Brandeis, that "the greatest menace to freedom is an inert people."

4. Liberals believe "we the people" are the governors and not the subjects of government, and that government must treat each person with that in mind. It is liberals who have defended and continue to defend the freedom of the press to investigate and challenge the government, the protection of individual privacy from overbearing government monitoring, and the right of individuals to reproductive freedom. (Note that libertarians, often thought of as "conservatives," share this value with liberals.)

5. Liberals believe government must respect and affirmatively safeguard the liberty, equality and dignity of each individual. It is liberals who have championed and continue to champion the rights of racial, religious and ethnic minorities, political dissidents, persons accused of crime and the outcasts of society. It is liberals who have insisted on the right to counsel, a broad application of the right to due process of law and the principle of equal protection for all people.

rest at link.

 

[Defiant1]

I have decided to become a liberal, but I don't know what the complete process is.

Can you liberals suggest my plan of action from this point on?

I need to learn how to do it right.

You have to squat anytime that you pee.

 

[Vanquish]

Defiant *sigh*

squatting when you pee = feminine
liberal = bad for you

so you're trying to insult liberals by saying they have to be feminine?

people like you make me sick. great job attempting to insult liberals by insulting women.

 

[goldcatt]

Defiant *sigh*

squatting when you pee = feminine
liberal = bad for you

so you're trying to insult liberals by saying they have to be feminine?

people like you make me sick. great job attempting to insult liberals by insulting women.

There are quite a few of those mysoginistic nutjobs around here, who use all things feminine as a synonym for "inferior". Then they whine and complain if the women decide to amuse themselves by kicking them around like a football. Takes all kinds, I suppose.

 

[editec]

I have decided to become a liberal, but I don't know what the complete process is.

Can you liberals suggest my plan of action from this point on?

I need to learn how to do it right.

Why not become a realist instead?

Then no partisan will like you.

Of course becoming a realist is a lot harder than being a partisan.

You see to be a realist one must do ones thinking for oneself.

And don't even talk to me about how much partisan BS one has to wade through in the hope of finding the truth.

Far as I can tell there are not realists represented regularly on TV.

So turn your fucking TV and radio off and start reading.

And here's one more hint, until you know the history of this nation, and know it fairly well, including the warts and all of it, you will forever be easily mislead.

And it gets worse, too, this trip you'll take down the realists' path is littered with dead ends, and pitfalls.

Even when you know your history, you can still be mislead by today's lies, libels, and half truths.

Trying to find an honest man is as difficult today as it was 2500 years ago, I guess.

 

[The T]

That's just it. Being a Liberal requires as little thought as possible. Just look pretty and whine alot.

 

[jillian]

Defiant *sigh*

squatting when you pee = feminine
liberal = bad for you

so you're trying to insult liberals by saying they have to be feminine?

people like you make me sick. great job attempting to insult liberals by insulting women.

There are quite a few of those mysoginistic nutjobs around here, who use all things feminine as a synonym for "inferior". Then they whine and complain if the women decide to amuse themselves by kicking them around like a football. Takes all kinds, I suppose.

Some of the more ignorant members of the rightwingnut brigade do seem to do that. In a way, it might be helpful for them if they learned to define their terms better.

 

[Defiant1]

Defiant *sigh*

squatting when you pee = feminine
liberal = bad for you

so you're trying to insult liberals by saying they have to be feminine?

people like you make me sick. great job attempting to insult liberals by insulting women.

I love it when I hit the target.....

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Liberalism is an ideology. Conservatism is not. Conservatism means 'ignorant reactionary and tool of those in power or recently booted out' and nothing more.

Again, I refer you to Locke and Hume.

and a liberal is not a tool of those in power?......ok.....

Those of the proletariat who are swayed (read:tricked) by the rhetoric of Liberalism of the classical doctrine (Read: Bourgeois Liberalism) are the useful idiots of the Bourgeoisie.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Liberalism is an ideology. Conservatism is not. Conservatism means 'ignorant reactionary and tool of those in power or recently booted out' and nothing more.

Again, I refer you to Locke and Hume.

and a liberal is not a tool of those in power?......ok.....

Those of the proletariat who are swayed (read:tricked) by the rhetoric of Liberalism of the classical doctrine (Read: Bourgeois Liberalism) are the useful idiots of the Bourgeoisie.

look Pro....the bottom line....the hacks on both "sides"....who do nothing but defend their "side"....who NEVER see anything that their "side" is doing,as being wrong.....those are the "TOOLS".....those who bitch about both "sides"....are the "anti-tools".....there are many "tools" in this forum....if i owned them all....i would have an AWSOME SET OF TOOLS.....

 

[Coyote]

I have decided to become a liberal, but I don't know what the complete process is.

Can you liberals suggest my plan of action from this point on?

I need to learn how to do it right.

You have to squat anytime that you pee.

Sure beats the hell out of dribbling down your leg.

 

[Vanquish]

Defiant *sigh*

squatting when you pee = feminine
liberal = bad for you

so you're trying to insult liberals by saying they have to be feminine?

people like you make me sick. great job attempting to insult liberals by insulting women.

I love it when I hit the target.....

If by target you mean someone who doesn't insult women...Great. Call me your target.

 

[Ringel05]

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What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then ... we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal." [JFK September 14, 1960]


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Rabidly unrealistic, idealistic rhetoric. Yup, that about sums it up. Go from one rabidly unrealistic, idealistic rhetorical approach to the other and wallah! Your suddenly reactionary right or loony left.
Yup rightwinger they can be just like you on one end or PI on the other.

 

[asaratis]

I have decided to become a liberal, but I don't know what the complete process is.

Can you liberals suggest my plan of action from this point on?

I need to learn how to do it right.

I'm no liberal but I did spend a night at Holiday Inn Express.

I think your first step is to have a frontal lobotomy. You might as well be brain dead.

Liberalism is a fucking mental disorder.