Debunking the claim that “Palestinians” are the indigenous people of Israel

[there4eyeM]

It would certainly be a disservice to Jews to lump them all together with 'Zionists', as many disown and reject that identification.

 

[bripat9643]

What was the European movement called that promoted a specific enclave in the Middle East for those of Jewish descent?

What did the antisemites call it?

 

[bripat9643]

'Jewish people' and 'Zionism' are not synonymous terms outside the consciousness of a minority.

They are synonymous when used by almost all the people that use the - antisemites, that is. People who are not antisemitic never use the term "zionist."

 

[bripat9643]

'Jewish people' and 'Zionism' are not synonymous terms ....

Why do we need more than one word to explain a very simple concept? We don't need a special term for the Palestinian people's desire for national self-determination, we just call them Palestinians and say they have a desire for national self-determination and self-governance. Why can't we do the same with the Jewish people? Why can't we just call them Jews and say they have a desire to national self-determination? Why do we need a special term?

The KKK is a Christian organization. When we talk about the KKK should we just say the Christians?

See what I mean about how the term Zionist is used? It is used to compare the Jewish desire for self-determination to the KKK as though those things are equivalent.

The word Zionism is intended to differentiate between "good Jews" who don't want national self-determination and "bad Jews" (or not real Jews) who do.

Why don't we simply say Jewish national self-determination? Why isn't that the proper term? As it is with Palestinians.

I use the term Zionist because that is what they called themselves. You know...like...The World Zionist Organization. Their reputation is of their own making.

Replace "zionist" with "black" and everyone will understand what an utter bigot you are.

 

[Phoenall]

Zionist and Zionism are not pejorative terms nor 'anti-Semitic' in themselves.

Correct, just in the context and meaning they are used

 

[Phoenall]

'Jewish people' and 'Zionism' are not synonymous terms outside the consciousness of a minority.

They are synonymous when used by almost all the people that use the - antisemites, that is. People who are not antisemitic never use the term "zionist."

I am a non Jewish Zionist and use the word in its intended definition. I do not use it as a cover for anti semitism and Jew hatred

 

[Phoenall]

'Jewish people' and 'Zionism' are not synonymous terms ....

Why do we need more than one word to explain a very simple concept? We don't need a special term for the Palestinian people's desire for national self-determination, we just call them Palestinians and say they have a desire for national self-determination and self-governance. Why can't we do the same with the Jewish people? Why can't we just call them Jews and say they have a desire to national self-determination? Why do we need a special term?

The KKK is a Christian organization. When we talk about the KKK should we just say the Christians?

Different as chalk and cheese as the KKK is not a Christian organisation at all, it is an extremist racist white supremacist nazi group. No ties to mainstream Christian churches and so are outcasts. A bit like hamas, fatah, Daesh and A.Q. are in islam.

Zionists are multi national, multi faith and multi nationality so are not just Jews, like you neo nazi's are not just islamic or German

 

[Phoenall]

'Jewish people' and 'Zionism' are not synonymous terms ....

Why do we need more than one word to explain a very simple concept? We don't need a special term for the Palestinian people's desire for national self-determination, we just call them Palestinians and say they have a desire for national self-determination and self-governance. Why can't we do the same with the Jewish people? Why can't we just call them Jews and say they have a desire to national self-determination? Why do we need a special term?

The KKK is a Christian organization. When we talk about the KKK should we just say the Christians?

See what I mean about how the term Zionist is used? It is used to compare the Jewish desire for self-determination to the KKK as though those things are equivalent.

The word Zionism is intended to differentiate between "good Jews" who don't want national self-determination and "bad Jews" (or not real Jews) who do.

Why don't we simply say Jewish national self-determination? Why isn't that the proper term? As it is with Palestinians.

I use the term Zionist because that is what they called themselves. You know...like...The World Zionist Organization. Their reputation is of their own making.

And like the non Jews who believe that the Jews should have their homeland and the right to defend it.

Should we call you an islamonazi terrorist for supporting the islamonazi terrorists fight to wipe out the Jews and take their lands ? After all this is what you support and defend when you side with hamas and fatah

 

[Phoenall]

What was the European movement called that promoted a specific enclave in the Middle East for those of Jewish descent?

What did the antisemites call it?

The final solution, as they bragged they had tricked the Jews into gathering in one place making it easier to finish the Job in one move

 

[there4eyeM]

(from "The Jewish Virtual Library")

The term “Zionism” was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum.

Its general definition means the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel.

Since the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Zionism has come to include the movement for the development of the State of Israel and the protection of the Jewish nation in Israel through support for theIsrael Defense Forces.

From inception, Zionism avocated tangible as well as spiritual aims. Jews of all persuasions - left, right,religious and secular - formed the Zionist movement and worked together toward its goals.

Disagreements in philosophy has led to rifts in the Zionist movement of the years and a number of separate forms have emerged, notably: Political Zionism; Religious Zionism; Socialist Zionism and Territorial Zionism.

 

[Shusha]

It would certainly be a disservice to Jews to lump them all together with 'Zionists', as many disown and reject that identification.

They reject the negative connotations given the term by anti-semites.

Why would the Jewish people disown and reject the right to self-determination and sovereignty in our homeland? Some of them believe that there is a religiously based order of events which need to be followed, but no reasonable person, Jew or not, believes that of all the peoples on the planet, only the Jewish people should not be permitted self-determination.

 

[Shusha]

Again, why do we need a special term, with negative connotation, for Jewish self-determination and sovereignty?

Should we invent a special term for Catalan self-determination? Or Tibetan? Or Kurdish? Or Palestinian? How about AlQudsism?

Let's take some examples from today:

My experience is that the AlQudists lie.

It is clear that the AlQudists knew full well that the indigenous peoples were the Jews, were aware that the land was populated and that they had a superiority complex that all Arabs had vis-a-vis the native indigenous population of Israel.

 

[there4eyeM]

Pointing out that there are many people and peoples in the same situation as those described as the Jews only shows how rare it is, indeed, for those 'indiginous' of two thousand years ago to retain the 'homeland' of that epoch.

 

[montelatici]

Again, why do we need a special term, with negative connotation, for Jewish self-determination and sovereignty?

Should we invent a special term for Catalan self-determination? Or Tibetan? Or Kurdish? Or Palestinian? How about AlQudsism?

Let's take some examples from today:

My experience is that the AlQudists lie.

It is clear that the AlQudists knew full well that the indigenous peoples were the Jews, were aware that the land was populated and that they had a superiority complex that all Arabs had vis-a-vis the native indigenous population of Israel.

The early Zionists knew who the indigenous people were, they knew that the Muslim and Christian Arabs were the indigenous people and planned, from the beginning, to steal the land from them. The revisionist propaganda is designed to justify the expropriation and ethnic cleansing of said indigenous people, the Muslims and Christians.

 

[Hollie]

Again, why do we need a special term, with negative connotation, for Jewish self-determination and sovereignty?

Should we invent a special term for Catalan self-determination? Or Tibetan? Or Kurdish? Or Palestinian? How about AlQudsism?

Let's take some examples from today:

My experience is that the AlQudists lie.

It is clear that the AlQudists knew full well that the indigenous peoples were the Jews, were aware that the land was populated and that they had a superiority complex that all Arabs had vis-a-vis the native indigenous population of Israel.

The early Zionists knew who the indigenous people were, they knew that the Muslim and Christian Arabs were the indigenous people and planned, from the beginning, to steal the land from them. The revisionist propaganda is designed to justify the expropriation and ethnic cleansing of said indigenous people, the Muslims and Christians.

I always get a chuckle out of your canned slogans. Your silly ethnic cleansing™ and stealing land from the indigenous Arabs and xtians™ Is a hoot.

Have you ever considered learning the facts?

 

[bripat9643]

Again, why do we need a special term, with negative connotation, for Jewish self-determination and sovereignty?

Should we invent a special term for Catalan self-determination? Or Tibetan? Or Kurdish? Or Palestinian? How about AlQudsism?

Let's take some examples from today:

My experience is that the AlQudists lie.

It is clear that the AlQudists knew full well that the indigenous peoples were the Jews, were aware that the land was populated and that they had a superiority complex that all Arabs had vis-a-vis the native indigenous population of Israel.

The early Zionists knew who the indigenous people were, they knew that the Muslim and Christian Arabs were the indigenous people and planned, from the beginning, to steal the land from them. The revisionist propaganda is designed to justify the expropriation and ethnic cleansing of said indigenous people, the Muslims and Christians.

Your antisemitic cloven hoof is showing.

 

[Shusha]

The early Zionists knew who the indigenous people were, they knew that the Muslim and Christian Arabs were the indigenous people and planned, from the beginning, to steal the land from them. The revisionist propaganda is designed to justify the expropriation and ethnic cleansing of said indigenous people, the Muslims and Christians.

Monte, I gotta hand it to you, you often make a better argument for my side than I do.

See, this is EXACTLY why the Arab Muslims had to give a negative meaning to "Zionism" -- so they could sell the narrative that the Jewish people and "Zionists" are somehow disconnected from each other and not the same people. In fact, it is imperative to the Arab narrative that this disconnection happen. Elsewise, people will start to realize .... "Hey, wait a minute. The Jewish people were there in the land before the Arabs and Christians, the Arabs and the Christians invaded and conquered the Jewish people, the Jewish people ARE the indigenous people. Its rather self-evident.

The early Jewish people knew who the indigenous people were.... Yep. They sure did.

 

[montelatici]

Yes,

The early Zionists knew who the indigenous people were, they knew that the Muslim and Christian Arabs were the indigenous people and planned, from the beginning, to steal the land from them. The revisionist propaganda is designed to justify the expropriation and ethnic cleansing of said indigenous people, the Muslims and Christians.

Monte, I gotta hand it to you, you often make a better argument for my side than I do.

See, this is EXACTLY why the Arab Muslims had to give a negative meaning to "Zionism" -- so they could sell the narrative that the Jewish people and "Zionists" are somehow disconnected from each other and not the same people. In fact, it is imperative to the Arab narrative that this disconnection happen. Elsewise, people will start to realize .... "Hey, wait a minute. The Jewish people were there in the land before the Arabs and Christians, the Arabs and the Christians invaded and conquered the Jewish people, the Jewish people ARE the indigenous people. Its rather self-evident.

The early Jewish people knew who the indigenous people were.... Yep. They sure did.

Yes they did. You just have never read the source documents. Vladimir Jabotinsky, an influential Zionist, knew full well, for example.

The Iron Wall (We and the Arabs)
by Vladimir Jabotinsky
The Jewish Herald
November 26, 1937

"......The inhabitants fought the white settlers not out of fear that they might be expropriated, but simply because there has never been an indigenous inhabitant anywhere or at any time who has ever accepted the settlement of others in his country. Any native people – its all the same whether they are civilized or savage – views their country as their national home, of which they will always be the complete masters. They will not voluntarily allow, not only a new master, but even a new partner.

And so it is for the Arabs. Compromisers in our midst attempt to convince us that the Arabs are some kind of fools who can be tricked by a softened formulation of our goals, or a tribe of money grubbers who will abandon their birthright to Palestine for cultural and economic gains. I flatly reject this assessment of the Palestinian Arabs. Culturally they are 500 years behind us, spiritually they do not have our endurance or our strength of will, but this exhausts all of the internal differences.

We can talk as much as we want about our good intentions; but they understand as well as we what is not good for them. They look upon Palestine with the same instinctive love and true fervor that any Aztec looked upon his Mexico or any Sioux looked upon his prairie. To think that the Arabs will voluntarily consent to the realization of Zionism in return for the cultural and economic benefits we can bestow on them is infantile. This childish fantasy of our "Arabo-philes" comes from some kind of contempt for the Arab people, of some kind of unfounded view of this race as a rabble ready to be bribed in order to sell out their homeland for a railroad network.

This view is absolutely groundless. Individual Arabs may perhaps be bought off but this hardly means that all the Arabs in Eretz Israel are willing to sell a patriotism that not even Papuans will trade. Every indigenous people will resist alien settlers as long as they see any hope of ridding themselves of the danger of foreign settlement. That is what the Arabs in Palestine are doing, and what they will persist in doing as long as there remains a solitary spark of hope that they will be able to prevent the transformation of "Palestine" into the "Land of Israel"...."

The Iron Wall (We and the Arabs)

 

[montelatici]

Again, why do we need a special term, with negative connotation, for Jewish self-determination and sovereignty?

Should we invent a special term for Catalan self-determination? Or Tibetan? Or Kurdish? Or Palestinian? How about AlQudsism?

Let's take some examples from today:

My experience is that the AlQudists lie.

It is clear that the AlQudists knew full well that the indigenous peoples were the Jews, were aware that the land was populated and that they had a superiority complex that all Arabs had vis-a-vis the native indigenous population of Israel.

The early Zionists knew who the indigenous people were, they knew that the Muslim and Christian Arabs were the indigenous people and planned, from the beginning, to steal the land from them. The revisionist propaganda is designed to justify the expropriation and ethnic cleansing of said indigenous people, the Muslims and Christians.

Your antisemitic cloven hoof is showing.

Just facts, nothing antisemitic about presenting facts.

 

[Hollie]

Yes,

The early Zionists knew who the indigenous people were, they knew that the Muslim and Christian Arabs were the indigenous people and planned, from the beginning, to steal the land from them. The revisionist propaganda is designed to justify the expropriation and ethnic cleansing of said indigenous people, the Muslims and Christians.

Monte, I gotta hand it to you, you often make a better argument for my side than I do.

See, this is EXACTLY why the Arab Muslims had to give a negative meaning to "Zionism" -- so they could sell the narrative that the Jewish people and "Zionists" are somehow disconnected from each other and not the same people. In fact, it is imperative to the Arab narrative that this disconnection happen. Elsewise, people will start to realize .... "Hey, wait a minute. The Jewish people were there in the land before the Arabs and Christians, the Arabs and the Christians invaded and conquered the Jewish people, the Jewish people ARE the indigenous people. Its rather self-evident.

The early Jewish people knew who the indigenous people were.... Yep. They sure did.

Yes they did. You just have never read the source documents. Vladimir Jabotinsky, an influential Zionist, knew full well, for example.

The Iron Wall (We and the Arabs)
by Vladimir Jabotinsky
The Jewish Herald
November 26, 1937

"......The inhabitants fought the white settlers not out of fear that they might be expropriated, but simply because there has never been an indigenous inhabitant anywhere or at any time who has ever accepted the settlement of others in his country. Any native people – its all the same whether they are civilized or savage – views their country as their national home, of which they will always be the complete masters. They will not voluntarily allow, not only a new master, but even a new partner.

And so it is for the Arabs. Compromisers in our midst attempt to convince us that the Arabs are some kind of fools who can be tricked by a softened formulation of our goals, or a tribe of money grubbers who will abandon their birthright to Palestine for cultural and economic gains. I flatly reject this assessment of the Palestinian Arabs. Culturally they are 500 years behind us, spiritually they do not have our endurance or our strength of will, but this exhausts all of the internal differences.

We can talk as much as we want about our good intentions; but they understand as well as we what is not good for them. They look upon Palestine with the same instinctive love and true fervor that any Aztec looked upon his Mexico or any Sioux looked upon his prairie. To think that the Arabs will voluntarily consent to the realization of Zionism in return for the cultural and economic benefits we can bestow on them is infantile. This childish fantasy of our "Arabo-philes" comes from some kind of contempt for the Arab people, of some kind of unfounded view of this race as a rabble ready to be bribed in order to sell out their homeland for a railroad network.

This view is absolutely groundless. Individual Arabs may perhaps be bought off but this hardly means that all the Arabs in Eretz Israel are willing to sell a patriotism that not even Papuans will trade. Every indigenous people will resist alien settlers as long as they see any hope of ridding themselves of the danger of foreign settlement. That is what the Arabs in Palestine are doing, and what they will persist in doing as long as there remains a solitary spark of hope that they will be able to prevent the transformation of "Palestine" into the "Land of Israel"...."

The Iron Wall (We and the Arabs)

You always manage to waste a lot your time (and bandwidth), with these long cut and paste dumps. What you don't understand is the Arab-Moslem squatters / colonists you like to call "indigenous Arabs" were just a more recent collection of invaders.

You have never studied the history of the area and you don't understand that the owners of much of your invented "country of Pal'istan" were the Ottoman Turks and secondarily, foreigners.

While you find the facts disagreeable, those are facts.