Deal with reality

[skookerasbil]

Ray......you are certainly an inspiration to us all..........taking a final and all at 96 years old and with pneumonia, much less!!!




Merry Christmas to all peeps..............

 

[Trakar]

Reality is even if GW were real I wouldn't give a shit. I will be dead in 100 years.

Well, both GW and the A-GW theories (explaining GW) are real and well supported scientific understandings. Fortunately, most people both look beyond what only they can take from the world during their lives and understand issues of personal culpability/responsibility toward their families, nation and the future of their species. I may, or may not, be dead in a hundred years, but such is irrelevant to my desires to leave my family, nation and species in a better situation if such is at all within my capabilities.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Years to All!
(Go Seahawks!!)

 

[boedicca]

The problem most often revolves around the introduction of individuals to reality, too many are sheltered from such by self-delusions, and socio-cultural illusions.

Your self-awareness is so refreshing, and yet you cling to the Cult of Global Warming Hysteria.

Go figure.

 

[Trakar]

What trillions of dollars in damage? Supporting evidence?

Most modern studies attempt to measure the costs of future changes and average out around 1.5% of GDP globally for changes we can expect over the next century (if temp changes stay under 2ºC, or roughly twice what we have experienced due to AGW over the last 100 years). Simplistic calculations derived from these analyses indicate that AGW impacts may have cost the world's economies some 2.795 trillion USD over the last century. Of course, this is a rough and very conservative estimate that lacks accounting for the true costs of such issues as forced extinctions/loss of biodiversity, full health and disease issues and is complicated by the fact that GDP analyses only capture a fraction of actual ecomic activity.

I'm still not sure what "squandering" you are referring to, but please feel free to list and reference actual federal expenditures and the objective pecuniary assessments that you feel justify qualifying them as wastes of money.

References:
"The Damage Costs of Climate Change Toward More Comprehensive Calculations" - https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:TDN8PFkuzQkJ:citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi%3D10.1.1.175.5700%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf+climate+change+damage+costs+over+last+century&hl=en&gl=ca&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjsjfsDwgI3tEjz6ixDW0zhAbAeN2FrFII2YvJ5k2CLtxHOfcbMecriEsXNCHDRcLQD2WIpXiDfFZ4N-7BXhz8oNWYREMVmAZBW1Ud89D4hjclpn9hbNiRmOYVDApvGTebbKcs1&sig=AHIEtbSjzj2N4tdrKgzXu2V9CSyBHShwIA



"Estimates of the Damage Costs of Climate Change" - https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:XUhkDGvvPO4J:citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi%3D10.1.1.175.5871%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf+climate+change+damage+costs+over+last+century&hl=en&gl=ca&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShrLZUTkdD8JXev3OnGb6y1ZdSVmTbaejt16NLvEuQBccTX3c7arzO5WYsmmIn-WnAVLDE7A76JrduvYLefqn-2OVcTdSPmBegBs7XSwZpZK-psPH5LTj-zIHqp47QmAmJZDwvz&sig=AHIEtbQ_7yITRJSOGUKI4ClkfAu-V8dUyA

"Climate Vulnerability Monitor: A Guide to the Cold Calculus of A Hot Planet" - http://daraint.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/CVM2ndEd-FrontMatter.pdf

"The Economics of Global Climate Change" -
http://www.ase.tufts.edu/gdae/education_materials/modules/The_Economics_of_Global_Climate_Change.pdf

"Valuing the Ocean Extended Executive Summary" - http://www.sei-international.org/mediamanager/documents/Publications/SEI-Report-ValuingTheOcean-ExtendedSummaryReport-2012.pdf
(more available upon request)

 

[Trakar]

The problem most often revolves around the introduction of individuals to reality, too many are sheltered from such by self-delusions, and socio-cultural illusions.

Your self-awareness is so refreshing, and yet you cling to the Cult of Global Warming Hysteria.

Go figure.

That you deem the leading scientific institutions/organizations, research professionals and the evidence supported understandings that they support to be a "Cult," speaks more to your own "clinging" than mine.

 

[ScienceRocks]

I want global warming.

It's really cold here

 

[Trakar]

I want global warming.

It's really cold here

Why do you wish harm and expense on everyone because you think your minute locality is a little cooler than you'd prefer in the middle of winter?

 

[westwall]

What trillions of dollars in damage? Supporting evidence?

Most modern studies attempt to measure the costs of future changes and average out around 1.5% of GDP globally for changes we can expect over the next century (if temp changes stay under 2ºC, or roughly twice what we have experienced due to AGW over the last 100 years). Simplistic calculations derived from these analyses indicate that AGW impacts may have cost the world's economies some 2.795 trillion USD over the last century. Of course, this is a rough and very conservative estimate that lacks accounting for the true costs of such issues as forced extinctions/loss of biodiversity, full health and disease issues and is complicated by the fact that GDP analyses only capture a fraction of actual ecomic activity.

I'm still not sure what "squandering" you are referring to, but please feel free to list and reference actual federal expenditures and the objective pecuniary assessments that you feel justify qualifying them as wastes of money.

References:
"The Damage Costs of Climate Change Toward More Comprehensive Calculations" - https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:TDN8PFkuzQkJ:citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi%3D10.1.1.175.5700%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf+climate+change+damage+costs+over+last+century&hl=en&gl=ca&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjsjfsDwgI3tEjz6ixDW0zhAbAeN2FrFII2YvJ5k2CLtxHOfcbMecriEsXNCHDRcLQD2WIpXiDfFZ4N-7BXhz8oNWYREMVmAZBW1Ud89D4hjclpn9hbNiRmOYVDApvGTebbKcs1&sig=AHIEtbSjzj2N4tdrKgzXu2V9CSyBHShwIA



"Estimates of the Damage Costs of Climate Change" - https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:XUhkDGvvPO4J:citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi%3D10.1.1.175.5871%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf+climate+change+damage+costs+over+last+century&hl=en&gl=ca&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShrLZUTkdD8JXev3OnGb6y1ZdSVmTbaejt16NLvEuQBccTX3c7arzO5WYsmmIn-WnAVLDE7A76JrduvYLefqn-2OVcTdSPmBegBs7XSwZpZK-psPH5LTj-zIHqp47QmAmJZDwvz&sig=AHIEtbQ_7yITRJSOGUKI4ClkfAu-V8dUyA

"Climate Vulnerability Monitor: A Guide to the Cold Calculus of A Hot Planet" - http://daraint.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/CVM2ndEd-FrontMatter.pdf

"The Economics of Global Climate Change" -
http://www.ase.tufts.edu/gdae/education_materials/modules/The_Economics_of_Global_Climate_Change.pdf

"Valuing the Ocean Extended Executive Summary" - http://www.sei-international.org/mediamanager/documents/Publications/SEI-Report-ValuingTheOcean-ExtendedSummaryReport-2012.pdf
(more available upon request)

So, do you ever have studies based on ACTUAL data and not computer models??? Ever?

The problem with the studies you incessantly post is they bear no relationship to reality. And they never have.

You really need to try harder.

 

[westwall]

The problem most often revolves around the introduction of individuals to reality, too many are sheltered from such by self-delusions, and socio-cultural illusions.

Your self-awareness is so refreshing, and yet you cling to the Cult of Global Warming Hysteria.

Go figure.

That you deem the leading scientific institutions/organizations, research professionals and the evidence supported understandings that they support to be a "Cult," speaks more to your own "clinging" than mine.

Your incessant appeals to authority are likewise indicative of your poor grasp of science.

 

[westwall]

I want global warming.

It's really cold here

Why do you wish harm and expense on everyone because you think your minute locality is a little cooler than you'd prefer in the middle of winter?

Why do you wish to cause even more harm on the biosphere of the planet? Cold kills far more than warmth. Why do you want everyone to die a cold hard death?

 

[Trakar]

I want global warming.

It's really cold here

Why do you wish harm and expense on everyone because you think your minute locality is a little cooler than you'd prefer in the middle of winter?

Why do you wish to cause even more harm on the biosphere of the planet? Cold kills far more than warmth. Why do you want everyone to die a cold hard death?

Please cite and reference the studies comparing current disease and climate related injury/death and planetary carrying capacity with those factors on a planet like ours with a 10-15ºC warmer than ours where that warming occurred over the period of a few centuries.

 

[westwall]

Why do you wish harm and expense on everyone because you think your minute locality is a little cooler than you'd prefer in the middle of winter?

Why do you wish to cause even more harm on the biosphere of the planet? Cold kills far more than warmth. Why do you want everyone to die a cold hard death?

Please cite and reference the studies comparing current disease and climate related injury/death and planetary carrying capacity with those factors on a planet like ours with a 10-15ºC warmer than ours where that warming occurred over the period of a few centuries.

Well, during the Holocene thermal max life seems to have been pretty darned nice. The PETM which you guys like to claim as a mass extinction event was actually anything but except for some benthic forams...

This is, of course, based on the observed paleo record unlike poorly constructed computer models that give pre-determined results.


"Contrarily, planktonic foraminifera diversified, and dinoflagellates bloomed. Success was also enjoyed by the mammals, who radiated profusely around this time."

Paleocene

 

[Trakar]

Why do you wish to cause even more harm on the biosphere of the planet? Cold kills far more than warmth. Why do you want everyone to die a cold hard death?

Please cite and reference the studies comparing current disease and climate related injury/death and planetary carrying capacity with those factors on a planet like ours with a 10-15ºC warmer than ours where that warming occurred over the period of a few centuries.

Well, during the Holocene thermal max life seems to have been pretty darned nice. The PETM which you guys like to claim as a mass extinction event was actually anything but except for some benthic forams...

This is, of course, based on the observed paleo record unlike poorly constructed computer models that give pre-determined results.

"Contrarily, planktonic foraminifera diversified, and dinoflagellates bloomed. Success was also enjoyed by the mammals, who radiated profusely around this time."

Paleocene

Again, lots of assertions, and wiki reference, but nothing compelling and/or substantive.

Real science seems to disagree with your assessment.

Long Ago, in a Climate Not Far Away - Long Ago, in a Climate Not Far Away

Patterns in Palaeontology: The Paleocene–Eocene Thermal Maximum -
www.palaeontologyonline.com | Article: Patterns in Palaeontology > Patterns in Palaeontology: The Paleocene

Life did recover as the climate recovered from the PETM event. As generally happens after such extreme events and die-offs, the surviving species radiated, evolved and speciated to fill the now largely vacant and changing ecological niches.

Of course, the important issue is that while no one I am aware of, has said that AGW will result in the death of our planet, it most certainly will have dramatic and serious impacts upon the current flora and fauna of our planet, and our civilization. Since the birth of our species, we have never had to deal with the types of conditions and problems that are inevitable with the expected range of changes resulting from another few decades of business as usual with regards to our carbon fuel usage.

 

[Old Rocks]

Your self-awareness is so refreshing, and yet you cling to the Cult of Global Warming Hysteria.

Go figure.

That you deem the leading scientific institutions/organizations, research professionals and the evidence supported understandings that they support to be a "Cult," speaks more to your own "clinging" than mine.

Your incessant appeals to authority are likewise indicative of your poor grasp of science.

One has to wonder if this person has ever written a scientific paper. And, if they did try to do that, they did so without any referances to the information that they used. For that is what they are stating when they state that backing up an assertation concerning a scientific subject is an "appeal to authority".

Ever single scientific paper I have ever read involves a lot of referances to source material. Even the short articles in Geology have at least half a page per article, often much more. Yet this person claims to be a degreed Geologist.