“Criminal Neocons” ripped by leftwing journalist on Tucker Carlson show

[flacaltenn]

You are right Trump policy is that we are no longer “Imperialists for Democracy” or “Nation Builders.” Actually, we haven’t been those for a long time.

We are mainly just plain “imperialists” defending a U.S.-dominated dollar “empire,” and we try to destroy nations under both Democratic and Republican Administrations if they strongly oppose U.S. corporate interests.

You're not way off the planet there.. But a lot of "corporate interests" are also "the people's interests when it comes to trade pacts and agreements.. We have no "empire" in the Mid East.. We like to sell military equipment there. If it gets properly PAID FOR without a lot of political/diplomatic strings -- I'm fine with that. USUALLY, the sales are a REWARD for stopping aggression, internal tyranny..

Today I watched Trump’s son-in-law, top advisor & international “peacemaker” Jared Kushner on CNN lying shamelessly about how the Trump Administration has been getting us out of “endless wars” in the Middle East — where he has in fact increased our military footprint in the last three years.

Let's go back to your OPENING post above.. Where are the lies? We are no longer prostelytizing "democracy" in an Imperialistic type of way.. And we've CLOSED the "Nation Building" biz down pretty completely.. And your last line there can be quibbled. We give "fusion centers" to many MidEast nations to tap Intelligence.. Those are staffed with military (and civil) American liasons. Beyond that and the occasional Carrier task Force sent to the Straits -- in WHICH countries does this INCREASED military presence exist?

Name the endless wars we've started in the last 4 years.. And the ones that still exist.. Already noted, that Trump did not follow Obama/Hillary into NEW endless wars in Libya and Syria...

You can sleep tonight.. The "neo-cons" have fled.. Closed up their think-tanks and lobbying.. Aint any WELCOME in the Trump Admin.. Unless you're gonna contend that Kushner is one.. LOL... That would be stupid..

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Let's look at this phrase, "criminal neocons", shall we? In many leftist hate sites "neocon" is tantamount to "Jew" as the original Neocons were disaffected liberals who were primarily Jewish and who sought a foreign policy that amounted to something of a muscular liberalism. They sought to expand liberal ideolody into the illiberal parts of the world.

Now, the problem with the neocons is more a matter of hubris than intent, as the notion that you can take primitives rooted in an ideology that roots them in a dysfunctional past and bring them into the modern world is naïve and unreasonable. Sure, Kelmal Ataturk was partially able to do that in Turkey due to his sheer determination, but the idea of doing it from without is quite ludicrous. Still, the idea was to bring liberal ideals into more parts of the middle east than just Israel, and so this inference that the very notion of wanting to succeed at such is criminal acts as a preemptive pejorative against any of us who think that such liberalization is actually a desirably objective.

IMO, the world would be a MUCH better place if the Arab world would adopt liberal attitudes. That does not make me a criminal, despite the attempt at establishing such attitudes as such.

 

[Olde Europe]

Rightfully so.. American public finally REALIZED that yet ANOTHER (maybe 7th) attempt at Neo Con follies was unacceptable.. Not wise to take a position FOR or AGAINST Assad in Civil War with literally 34 different factions fighting each other...

Think he walked that line pretty well.. Iran is no position to harm the CONUS in an all out war.. Think Trump was wise to back off on the drone shoot down.. The Iranian naval aggression in the Straits hasn't been an issue since.. That's the right direction..

Nice. Remember, your claim was there's "unanimous bipartisian support" for imperial ME adventures. Good to see you drop that libertarian propaganda lie.

Let's also note your facility with imperial verbiage, declaring Iran's policing THEIR OWN BACK YARD to be "naval aggression", irresponsibly defying the imperial intruder. Noting "CONUS" and it's protection against retaliation by an ocean's distance, you mention "all out war" and things going into the "right direction", namely, the empire getting its will and having its way with what is yet another Third World country. That serves to demonstrate, yet again, that libertarians are no less imperialistic than the rest of the bunch, but, as usual, they are entirely fine with taking no responsibility for their position. Decrying imperialism while celebrating the successful exercise of imperial power - how's that for having one's cake and eating it too? It's nothing out of the ordinary, though, just the usual hypocrisy.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Let's look at this phrase, "criminal neocons", shall we? In many leftist hate sites "neocon" is tantamount to "Jew" as the original Neocons were disaffected liberals who ...

Always when I discuss the failures of continuing U.S. policy in the Middle East somebody will draw out the cheap “anti-Semite” card, especially in regard to any criticism of Israel.

Here somebody writes a long analysis seemingly taking exception even to using the words “criminal neocon” — as if it were suspiciously anti-Jewish to apply the word “criminal” to those self avowed “neocons” who played such a key role advocating and defending Bush’s disasterous invasion and occupation of Iraq, and who are still active in both Trump’s Administration and Biden’s campaign.

I usually get criticism when I use the words “liberal imperialist.”

Apparently you can’t please everybody! Liberals, Conservatives, Zionists, Christian Zionists, Republicans, Democrats, even Trump supporters who used to pretend to oppose “Endless Wars” and now support a President who has done nothing to lower our military footprint overseas and the Middle East, but done everything to wage trade wars and “war by other means” against Syria, Iran, and even against allies like Germany who just want to buy oil from Russia — all these U.S. political forces support the same basic status quo policies.

As the Chatham House study I referenced concluded:

“The US military remains a robust permanent presence in the Middle East with greater numbers of troops now deployed there than under the previous administration. Those military assets ... are crucial for achieving US objectives in the region. The US military is indeed ‘stuck’ in the region, with all of the associated human and financial costs, unintended consequences, and opportunities to shape and influence political and security outcomes. A fundamental shift in this military policy remains unimaginable at present.”

Nobody should expect that a Trump Administration advocating a “strong military” will ever adopt such an “unimaginable” “fundamental shift in this military policy.” The issue in the end isn’t just the “advisors” the President selects, whether they are liberal or conservative, but the very “Military-Industrial-Complex” itself. There is a well-known revolving door in which up to 80% of retiring 3 and 4 star generals end up working for these companies. There are of course other powerful lobbyist groups involved as well.

US Military Policy in the Middle East

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Let's look at this phrase, "criminal neocons", shall we? In many leftist hate sites "neocon" is tantamount to "Jew" as the original Neocons were disaffected liberals who ...

Always when I discuss the failures of continuing U.S. policy in the Middle East somebody will draw out the cheap “anti-Semite” card, especially in regard to any criticism of Israel.

Here somebody writes a long analysis seemingly taking exception even to using the words “criminal neocon” — as if it were suspiciously anti-Jewish to apply the word “criminal” to those self avowed “neocons” who played such a key role advocating and defending Bush’s disasterous invasion and occupation of Iraq, and who are still active in both Trump’s Administration and Biden’s campaign.

I usually get criticism when I use the words “liberal imperialist.”

Apparently you can’t please everybody! Liberals, Conservatives, Zionists, Christian Zionists, Republicans, Democrats, even Trump supporters who used to pretend to oppose “Endless Wars” and now support a President who has done nothing to lower our military footprint overseas and the Middle East, but done everything to wage trade wars and “war by other means” against Syria, Iran, and even against allies like Germany who just want to buy oil from Russia — all these U.S. political forces support the same basic status quo policies.

As the Chatham House study I referenced concluded:

“The US military remains a robust permanent presence in the Middle East with greater numbers of troops now deployed there than under the previous administration. Those military assets ... are crucial for achieving US objectives in the region. The US military is indeed ‘stuck’ in the region, with all of the associated human and financial costs, unintended consequences, and opportunities to shape and influence political and security outcomes. A fundamental shift in this military policy remains unimaginable at present.”

Nobody should expect that a Trump Administration advocating a “strong military” will ever adopt such an “unimaginable” “fundamental shift in this military policy.” The issue in the end isn’t just the “advisors” the President selects, whether they are liberal or conservative, but the very “Military-Industrial-Complex” itself. There is a well-known revolving door in which up to 80% of retiring 3 and 4 star generals end up working for these companies. There are of course other powerful lobbyist groups involved as well.

US Military Policy in the Middle East

Actually, I say what I say because I am very familiar with the antisemitic hate site called "counterpunch" which you have promoted. I know their rhetoric and I know when people are repeating it. I also know that they have a history of posting Russian disinformation.

The woman you are promoting here wrote for Russia Times and openly admires a known terrorist. You have also promoted the idea of giving China control over Mideast oil.

I will leave it at that and allow others to decide for themselves what you are representing here.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Let's look at this phrase, "criminal neocons", shall we? In many leftist hate sites "neocon" is tantamount to "Jew" as the original Neocons were disaffected liberals who ...

Always when I discuss the failures of continuing U.S. policy in the Middle East somebody will draw out the cheap “anti-Semite” card, especially in regard to any criticism of Israel.

Here somebody writes a long analysis seemingly taking exception even to using the words “criminal neocon” — as if it were suspiciously anti-Jewish to apply the word “criminal” to those self avowed “neocons” who played such a key role advocating and defending Bush’s disasterous invasion and occupation of Iraq, and who are still active in both Trump’s Administration and Biden’s campaign.

I usually get criticism when I use the words “liberal imperialist.”

Apparently you can’t please everybody! Liberals, Conservatives, Zionists, Christian Zionists, Republicans, Democrats, even Trump supporters who used to pretend to oppose “Endless Wars” and now support a President who has done nothing to lower our military footprint overseas and the Middle East, but done everything to wage trade wars and “war by other means” against Syria, Iran, and even against allies like Germany who just want to buy oil from Russia — all these U.S. political forces support the same basic status quo policies.

As the Chatham House study I referenced concluded:

“The US military remains a robust permanent presence in the Middle East with greater numbers of troops now deployed there than under the previous administration. Those military assets ... are crucial for achieving US objectives in the region. The US military is indeed ‘stuck’ in the region, with all of the associated human and financial costs, unintended consequences, and opportunities to shape and influence political and security outcomes. A fundamental shift in this military policy remains unimaginable at present.”

Nobody should expect that a Trump Administration advocating a “strong military” will ever adopt such an “unimaginable” “fundamental shift in this military policy.” The issue in the end isn’t just the “advisors” the President selects, whether they are liberal or conservative, but the very “Military-Industrial-Complex” itself. There is a well-known revolving door in which up to 80% of retiring 3 and 4 star generals end up working for these companies. There are of course other powerful lobbyist groups involved as well.

US Military Policy in the Middle East

Actually, I say what I say because I am very familiar with the antisemitic hate site called "counterpunch" which you have promoted. I know their rhetoric and I know when people are repeating it. I also know that they have a history of posting Russian disinformation.

The woman you are promoting here wrote for Russia Times and openly admires a known terrorist. You have also promoted the idea of giving China control over Mideast oil.

I will leave it at that and allow others to decide for themselves what you are representing here.

Counterpunch is only a free Internet platform, and it carries dissenting political opinions from all over the place. They give a needed platform for some fine dissident writers who are ignored by the mainstream press. Certainly many articles that get published there are “anti-imperialist.” Personally I find many of those articles silly, but almost none of them anti-Semitic.

The Counterpunch website was foundered originally by the now deceased, one-of-a-kind Alexander Cockburne and his partner Jeffrey St. Clair, who is still the editor in chief. Cockburne was my favorite journalist in the 1980s. He became famous as the only widely read writer denouncing the then universally popular Cold War Carter-Reagan policy of support to the Islamic “freedom fighters” in Afghanistan (e.g. BinLaden). Cockburne with zest and clever ridicule defended the Soviets and the Soviet-supported government in Afghanistan in its fight against the U.S. armed and financed Afghan “barbarians.”

I’ve spoken of RT at length, and of the alt-right’s debt to this clever Russian nationalist propaganda outlet, which nevertheless publishes works by noteworthy Western journalists and dissidents, Edward Snowden among them. I feel pity for those millions of citizens who fear to appropriately utilize, or who use inappropriately and even unknowingly, truthful articles or pure propaganda from outside the U.S. media “bubble.”

Finally, Tucker Carlson invited the GreyZone journalist (“that woman”) to speak on his — in my opinion — often obnoxiously demagogic right wing propaganda program. Any complaints you have should properly be addressed to him.

One of my main purposes in creating this OP was precisely to “get the goat” of people like Dogmaphobe, and get everybody thinking outside of their comfortable party-partisan boxes, to address seriously the larger problem of increasingly aggressive U.S. nationalist and imperialist policies ... from a more relevant international perspective.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Let's look at this phrase, "criminal neocons", shall we? In many leftist hate sites "neocon" is tantamount to "Jew" as the original Neocons were disaffected liberals who ...

Always when I discuss the failures of continuing U.S. policy in the Middle East somebody will draw out the cheap “anti-Semite” card, especially in regard to any criticism of Israel.

Here somebody writes a long analysis seemingly taking exception even to using the words “criminal neocon” — as if it were suspiciously anti-Jewish to apply the word “criminal” to those self avowed “neocons” who played such a key role advocating and defending Bush’s disasterous invasion and occupation of Iraq, and who are still active in both Trump’s Administration and Biden’s campaign.

I usually get criticism when I use the words “liberal imperialist.”

Apparently you can’t please everybody! Liberals, Conservatives, Zionists, Christian Zionists, Republicans, Democrats, even Trump supporters who used to pretend to oppose “Endless Wars” and now support a President who has done nothing to lower our military footprint overseas and the Middle East, but done everything to wage trade wars and “war by other means” against Syria, Iran, and even against allies like Germany who just want to buy oil from Russia — all these U.S. political forces support the same basic status quo policies.

As the Chatham House study I referenced concluded:

“The US military remains a robust permanent presence in the Middle East with greater numbers of troops now deployed there than under the previous administration. Those military assets ... are crucial for achieving US objectives in the region. The US military is indeed ‘stuck’ in the region, with all of the associated human and financial costs, unintended consequences, and opportunities to shape and influence political and security outcomes. A fundamental shift in this military policy remains unimaginable at present.”

Nobody should expect that a Trump Administration advocating a “strong military” will ever adopt such an “unimaginable” “fundamental shift in this military policy.” The issue in the end isn’t just the “advisors” the President selects, whether they are liberal or conservative, but the very “Military-Industrial-Complex” itself. There is a well-known revolving door in which up to 80% of retiring 3 and 4 star generals end up working for these companies. There are of course other powerful lobbyist groups involved as well.

US Military Policy in the Middle East

Actually, I say what I say because I am very familiar with the antisemitic hate site called "counterpunch" which you have promoted. I know their rhetoric and I know when people are repeating it. I also know that they have a history of posting Russian disinformation.

The woman you are promoting here wrote for Russia Times and openly admires a known terrorist. You have also promoted the idea of giving China control over Mideast oil.

I will leave it at that and allow others to decide for themselves what you are representing here.

Counterpunch is only a free Internet platform, and it carries dissenting political opinions from all over the place. They give a needed platform for some fine dissident writers who are ignored by the mainstream press. Certainly many articles that get published there are “anti-imperialist.” Personally I find many of those articles silly, but almost none of them anti-Semitic.

The Counterpunch website was foundered originally by the now deceased, one-of-a-kind Alexander Cockburne and his partner Jeffrey St. Clair, who is still the editor in chief. Cockburne was my favorite journalist in the 1980s. He became famous as the only widely read writer denouncing the then universally popular Cold War Carter-Reagan policy of support to the Islamic “freedom fighters” in Afghanistan (e.g. BinLaden). Cockburne with zest and clever ridicule defended the Soviets and the Soviet-supported government in Afghanistan in its fight against the U.S. armed and financed Afghan “barbarians.”

I’ve spoken of RT at length, and of the alt-right’s debt to this clever Russian nationalist propaganda outlet, which nevertheless publishes works by noteworthy Western journalists and dissidents, Edward Snowden among them. I feel pity for those millions of citizens who fear to appropriately utilize, or who use inappropriately and even unknowingly, truthful articles or pure propaganda from outside the U.S. media “bubble.”

Finally, Tucker Carlson invited the GreyZone journalist (“that woman”) to speak on his — in my opinion — often obnoxiously demagogic right wing propaganda program. Any complaints you have should properly be addressed to him.

One of my main purposes in creating this OP was precisely to “get the goat” of people like Dogmaphobe, and get everybody thinking outside of their comfortable party-partisan boxes, to address seriously the larger problem of increasingly aggressive U.S. nationalist and imperialist policies ... from a more relevant international perspective.

Well, at least you admitted that your very very intent was to provoke and get people's goat.

 

[gipper]

Let's look at this phrase, "criminal neocons", shall we? In many leftist hate sites "neocon" is tantamount to "Jew" as the original Neocons were disaffected liberals who ...

Always when I discuss the failures of continuing U.S. policy in the Middle East somebody will draw out the cheap “anti-Semite” card, especially in regard to any criticism of Israel.

Here somebody writes a long analysis seemingly taking exception even to using the words “criminal neocon” — as if it were suspiciously anti-Jewish to apply the word “criminal” to those self avowed “neocons” who played such a key role advocating and defending Bush’s disasterous invasion and occupation of Iraq, and who are still active in both Trump’s Administration and Biden’s campaign.

I usually get criticism when I use the words “liberal imperialist.”

Apparently you can’t please everybody! Liberals, Conservatives, Zionists, Christian Zionists, Republicans, Democrats, even Trump supporters who used to pretend to oppose “Endless Wars” and now support a President who has done nothing to lower our military footprint overseas and the Middle East, but done everything to wage trade wars and “war by other means” against Syria, Iran, and even against allies like Germany who just want to buy oil from Russia — all these U.S. political forces support the same basic status quo policies.

As the Chatham House study I referenced concluded:

“The US military remains a robust permanent presence in the Middle East with greater numbers of troops now deployed there than under the previous administration. Those military assets ... are crucial for achieving US objectives in the region. The US military is indeed ‘stuck’ in the region, with all of the associated human and financial costs, unintended consequences, and opportunities to shape and influence political and security outcomes. A fundamental shift in this military policy remains unimaginable at present.”

Nobody should expect that a Trump Administration advocating a “strong military” will ever adopt such an “unimaginable” “fundamental shift in this military policy.” The issue in the end isn’t just the “advisors” the President selects, whether they are liberal or conservative, but the very “Military-Industrial-Complex” itself. There is a well-known revolving door in which up to 80% of retiring 3 and 4 star generals end up working for these companies. There are of course other powerful lobbyist groups involved as well.

US Military Policy in the Middle East

Actually, I say what I say because I am very familiar with the antisemitic hate site called "counterpunch" which you have promoted. I know their rhetoric and I know when people are repeating it. I also know that they have a history of posting Russian disinformation.

The woman you are promoting here wrote for Russia Times and openly admires a known terrorist. You have also promoted the idea of giving China control over Mideast oil.

I will leave it at that and allow others to decide for themselves what you are representing here.

Counterpunch is only a free Internet platform, and it carries dissenting political opinions from all over the place. They give a needed platform for some fine dissident writers who are ignored by the mainstream press. Certainly many articles that get published there are “anti-imperialist.” Personally I find many of those articles silly, but almost none of them anti-Semitic.

The Counterpunch website was foundered originally by the now deceased, one-of-a-kind Alexander Cockburne and his partner Jeffrey St. Clair, who is still the editor in chief. Cockburne was my favorite journalist in the 1980s. He became famous as the only widely read writer denouncing the then universally popular Cold War Carter-Reagan policy of support to the Islamic “freedom fighters” in Afghanistan (e.g. BinLaden). Cockburne with zest and clever ridicule defended the Soviets and the Soviet-supported government in Afghanistan in its fight against the U.S. armed and financed Afghan “barbarians.”

I’ve spoken of RT at length, and of the alt-right’s debt to this clever Russian nationalist propaganda outlet, which nevertheless publishes works by noteworthy Western journalists and dissidents, Edward Snowden among them. I feel pity for those millions of citizens who fear to appropriately utilize, or who use inappropriately and even unknowingly, truthful articles or pure propaganda from outside the U.S. media “bubble.”

Finally, Tucker Carlson invited the GreyZone journalist (“that woman”) to speak on his — in my opinion — often obnoxiously demagogic right wing propaganda program. Any complaints you have should properly be addressed to him.

One of my main purposes in creating this OP was precisely to “get the goat” of people like Dogmaphobe, and get everybody thinking outside of their comfortable party-partisan boxes, to address seriously the larger problem of increasingly aggressive U.S. nationalist and imperialist policies ... from a more relevant international perspective.

Good thread. Our government is certainly practicing imperialism on a grand scale, and this has been true through several presidents and by both political crime families.

While Trump hasn’t gotten us into new useless wars as his predecessors did, he continues a practice of overt intimidation and provocative military actions. Along with numerous economic sanctions, that easily could lead to war.

Trump also has an enormous military budget, ironically approved by the Ds in Congress even though they like to claim he’s unfit for the office and a threat to mankind.

While the country burns with division and outright rioting, along with a pandemic and high unemployment, our one party government (the War Party) continues massive military spending and provocations that could easily entangle us in another wasteful war.