Credit Card Abuses

[jreeves]

Greater power being the key. The average person or business that uses credit can not fight a bank. Major banks are abusing this power. They may have contracts but that does not mean they will abide in the contracts that they wrote. I may not know much about banking but I know when I sign a contract I expect both parties to meet the obligations of that contract. You can't have one party that is a giant changing the contract mid way at their own discretion. That is exactly what these banks are doing and have been doing. If I sign one piece of paper a bank has no legal right to add to that original paper I signed and agreed too. Credit card companies/Banks are changing the contracts after the fact.

If a bank doesn't follow through on their end of the credit contract then under current law you do have legal recourse.

Okay ... so then what's the problem.

You both sign a contract on terms you both agree to, the law upholds said contract. I don't see any problem at all.

People are claiming victim stating they didn't know that certain terms of the contract. Even though it is expressly stated in their credit agreements.....

 

[KittenKoder]

If a bank doesn't follow through on their end of the credit contract then under current law you do have legal recourse.

Okay ... so then what's the problem.

You both sign a contract on terms you both agree to, the law upholds said contract. I don't see any problem at all.

People are claiming victim stating they didn't know that certain terms of the contract. Even though it is expressly stated in their credit agreements.....

It baffles me ... if they have no intention of paying their credit card bills then they really are criminals, if they get credit knowing they can't pay it then they are no better. It's not rocket science, I live on a budget (about $700 a month) and do just fine, go out to movies, eat out about once a week, upgrade my tech when I feel like it, have plenty of food, pay rent ... I wouldn't even know what to do with $5,000 in credit though I could get it and pay it back ... I just don't know how no one else can or is willing to.

 

[strollingbones]

The worst credit card offers you’ll ever see - The Red Tape Chronicles - MSNBC.com

 

[Gunny]

The White House said Sunday that it will back congressional efforts to clamp down on credit card abuses in an effort to address the recession's effect on Main Street.

The House and Senate are considering a credit card bill of rights to limit the ability of credit card companies to raise interest rates on existing balances and to require greater disclosure. White House economic adviser Larry Summers said people need to save more, but that the government also needs to curb credit card pitches that addict people to plastic.

President Barack Obama is "going to be very focused, in a very near term, on a whole set of issues having to do with credit card abuses, having to do with the way people have been deceived into paying extraordinarily high rates that they wouldn't have paid if they knew what they were getting themselves into," Summers said.
Obama to address credit card abuses - White House- msnbc.com


How about the credit card abuses committed on the credit companies from individuals who charge up their credit cards? When they know there is no way in hell they will be able to repay it. What happened to Obama's era of responsibility?

I typed almost exactly that, THEN read your comment. Had to do some backspacing.

 

[Gunny]

I'd say when credit cards purposely send out statements late and charges $45.00 plus $45.00 each month on a $300.00 or less balance and they refuse to remedy the situation while racking the bill up to $900.00 plus in a few months is clearly abuse .

I have absoulutely no sympathy for banks and for very good reason. I also have the statements and paid cancelled check reciepts to verify that it is absolute abuse of power these companies have been using to enslave people into extra debt.

Know your balance, due date, and pay online. Doesn't matter WHEN my paper statement gets here.

 

[Gunny]

banks take full advantage....if you are late with your car insurance they can raise your interest rate...i called one time for a pay off on a simple interest loan....paid it off..well the lady who answered the phone was not qualified to give out that information...and i still owed money....i end up paying it to settle it..it was just going to continue to add up

People take full advantage as well. Our society as a whole operates on the "gimmee now -- defer the payment" process only no one likes that rude awakening when it arrives.

The banks aren't lily white, but they sure as Hell can't take advantage of nonexistent customers.

 

[editec]

The House and Senate are considering a credit card bill of rights to limit the ability of credit card companies to raise interest rates on existing balances and to require greater disclosure.

It's about fucking time.

You borrow money thinking you're borrowing at one rate, and the CC companies now have the right to jack up that rate to anything they damned well please?

Parsitic capitalism, folks.

Ought to hang the bastards and the members of congress who granted them that right, too.

And if most of you check, you'll find that in all probability YOUR favorite congressman or woman will be one of those Congressional enablers which gave them this right, too.

Just another example of how the undeclared CLASS WAR has been conducted against the American working classes for the last thirty years.

 

[Gunny]

i have to admit i'm perplexed by the resistence of some to people actually understanding the terms of their credit cards.

the credit card holder's "bill of rights" is already being distributed among professionals here in ny.

i think the credit card companies SHOULD have to give a minimum 20 day cycle...

I think they SHOULD make it clear how interest is calculated.

I think they SHOULD make it clear that if you pay your VISA bill late, that Mastercard WILL impose a default interest rate, sometimes 30%, even if you've never been so much as five minutes late paying your mastercard.

And I'll remind you that if WE ever lent money at the interest rates charged by banks, it would be considered USURY and we'd be prosecuted for it.

It's good to be the king.

You mean just like if *I* walk into your house and take your part of your paycheck every payday it's theft, but if the government does it it's tax?

Yeah, it's good to be King alright ... Hannibal.

 

[Gunny]

Excellent. This shows that you were well able to handle the situation on your own and didn't require an act of Congress to save you.
If the general public refuses to abide by changing the rules in mid stream then we'll find that they change their tactics. It's only because so many people are willing to play their game that they continue. The public has the ability to make current credit ratings obsolete.

That's nice... so you think less capable people should be victimized by banks?

And good luck living or operating a business without credit.

You won't get a phone company to hook you up; won't get gas or electric for your home; won't get a car except for cash... can't get improvement loans to expand your home or business...

I guess it's ok if you want to spend your life in the woods with a shotgun and hunt for your own food, chop wood for trees, etc.

But it sure isn't reality.

So you think Big Brother should babysit the world? If they are less capable, then they don't need to be flashing plastic all over town. It's amazing that it's okay to call people less capable when presenting them as victims but not okay to call them less capable to differentiate between them and more capable people.

That might not be YOUR reality, but don't superimpose your reality on everyone else. Requirements for any of those things are different every place I've lived.

 

[Gunny]

That's nice... so you think less capable people should be victimized by banks?

Everyone is that capable, Jillian. If you're responsible enough to have a license, drive, and own a car, you were also capable of reading everything you signed, you're capable of handling whatever arises with said responsibilities.. It's more getting off your tail and *doing* it, rather than screaming 'victim', and doing nothing waiiting to see what happens...

Too many people are content to just wait and see...

It doesn't matter if you read what you sign if you're not clearly informed and even if you are, if every bank is engaging in the same abuses, then where's your protection. It's not like anything a bank gives you is negotiable. It's an adhesion contract... I think consumer's should be protected from that.

What exactly do you find objectionable, if anything, about a Bill of Rights that keep banks from doing things like shortening the payment cycle in order to run up interest costs?

There's nothing in the BOR which would keep someone from having to pay legitimate debt. It just keeps them from getting ripped off while doing it.... kind of like requiring clear language in real estate contracts so you don't need a lawyer to understand what is in front of you.

which brings me back to my original point... I really don't understand why anyone has a problem with that.

I'm not arguing, fussing, playing ... I'm truly not following the philosophy behind it.

BS. When you sign what you read you are saying you are clearly informed.

You don't understand because you don't want to. The BOR addresses only ONE side of the issue and paints consumers as victims. Who is the victim when they default on their debts?

If they're going to crack down on the lenders, they need to crack down on the borrowers as well.

 

[Gunny]

It is not always a matter of someone understanding what they are signing or the ability to handle these situations. Truth is if we had not been through the ringer with Wells Fargo I would have had no clue. People should not have to have a LAW DEGREE to use a bank. Either banks need to be good citizens and work at being fair minded or they need to get out of business. Loan sharking was outllawed for a reason.

You take a guy or gal working 50 hours a week to make ends meet and then stress them with some unscrupulous banking theives that work in the grey areas. It is asking to much for people to accept.

If the congress is unwilling to protect the people, the people do not need them.

I hardly have anything near a law degree yet I managed to figure out I was getting caught up in the credit card game in the late 80s and I just sucked it up and did without until they were paid off. It's called personal responsibility, and I hated every minute of it but I damned sure didn't look around for someone else to make my payments.

It isn't Congress's place to protect the people from themselves. That's what freedom's all about. If you can't handle its inherent risks, then I guess you might need someone to babysit you.

 

[Care4all]

I do not believe the Banks can be victims, because it is their duty to protect their stock holders by making wise decisions on who they lend to...and to have measures that assure the area of business they are in for lending to those with higher risks, is still very profitable for them, in the end...basically justifying the risk and limiting the risk so that if it ALL goes south, they still have enough of their business in secure loans with high credit ratings and less risk....

Or through their HIGHER CREDIT INTEREST RATES that they charge all of their higher risk customers, so that they make enough profit off of the higher risk customers who do pay all of their bills on time, to cover any losses on those that default....

In addition to this, they have covered themselves with extra fees charged, one day late...a late fee, pay another credit card late and they raise your interest rate to 30%, going over your limit a $40 buck fee etc etc etc....

What made banks change? When I got my first Credit card, I had to give my soul to qualify for a $200 buck limit....I had to give them my checking account and savings account, i had to give them my notorized birth certificate, 3 months of pay stubs, my electric bill....all kinds of stuff BEFORE they would issue me this first credit card....

what happened to make them go after every college student out there, who doesn't even work....to just give them credit cards?

What happened to them not stopping you when you hit your limit at a store? Now they just let you go way over your limit and charge you a FEE?

What happened to them not issuing another credit card to a person that already had 10 of them? Yet now they issue them without thought?

WHY have they been so irresponsible to their stock holders in this manner? Was the immediate MONEY that they would make, worth the risk of it all falling apart?

Was the new bankruptcy laws they got congress to pass so beneficial to them that they thought they had less of a risk and more profits could be made?

OR DID THEY DO THE SAME THING with credit cards that they did with mortgages and POOL them together in to "Securities", masking the risk of all of the high risk customers they issued credit cards to that should not have gotten them at all....and sell these securities off to unsuspecting financial institutions and foreign countries as well?

I tell ya what....if it turns out that banks also loaned out all of this money via credit cards, to another crud load of people that should NOT have been given the credit in the first place, because they were hiding these risks via pooling them in to securities as they did with the Mortgage Backed Securities....

THEN THAT KILLS the theory that banks loaned money for mortgages to all of those high risk people because they were afraid of being sued due to CRA....the community reinvestment act.

That falls FLAT on its FACE....imo.

care

 

[editec]

What part of the bait and switch rip-off aren't you people understanding?

You sign on at one rate, borrow at that rate and then the CC company can charge a much higher rate of interest on the outstanding balance anytime and for any reason (or no reason!) they please?


I don't have credit cards. Got rid of them all in the early 90s.

I got my first credit card back (in ' 69) when the rate of interest was dictated at no more than 8% annually per year.

I could live with that. It was a fair rate of interest to be paying for a revolving line of credit.

THEN when I borrowed I KNEW how much I'd have to pay back.

Now?

Nobody knows what interest they'll be charging you AFTER you borrow, because the government made it legal for them to change the interest rates on EXISTING balances.

And some of you tools don't have a problem with that?

Astounding!

 

[Red Dawn]

The White House said Sunday that it will back congressional efforts to clamp down on credit card abuses in an effort to address the recession's effect on Main Street.

sounds like commie bs to me.


I believe in the repiublican mantra of leaving wall street and corporate america alone, deregulating them, and letting free markets work their magic.

 

[Care4all]

People say they want to leave it alone and not have the government involved, while the past 2 to 3 decades all our Congress has done is be involved in making regulations and laws that make it better and more profitable for the Credit card banks?

where were all of these people that are now saying they don't want our government involved back when our government got involved to change things in to the favor of the banks and less favorable to their constituants, who they are suppose to protect and represent?

I have no problem at all with out government getting involved to reverse some of the things congress changed that hurt all of us.

The thing is, I just don't TRUST congress because they are the ones that changed things that allowed us to be abused in the first place due to the bank lobbying front court press that they succumbed to in the first place...

Sometimes I wonder if they just don't do the wrong thing, so they can come back and play the HERO with their constituants later....

 

[RodISHI]

It is not always a matter of someone understanding what they are signing or the ability to handle these situations. Truth is if we had not been through the ringer with Wells Fargo I would have had no clue. People should not have to have a LAW DEGREE to use a bank. Either banks need to be good citizens and work at being fair minded or they need to get out of business. Loan sharking was outllawed for a reason.

You take a guy or gal working 50 hours a week to make ends meet and then stress them with some unscrupulous banking theives that work in the grey areas. It is asking to much for people to accept.

If the congress is unwilling to protect the people, the people do not need them.

I hardly have anything near a law degree yet I managed to figure out I was getting caught up in the credit card game in the late 80s and I just sucked it up and did without until they were paid off. It's called personal responsibility, and I hated every minute of it but I damned sure didn't look around for someone else to make my payments.

It isn't Congress's place to protect the people from themselves. That's what freedom's all about. If you can't handle its inherent risks, then I guess you might need someone to babysit you.

It is the job of congress to regulate. Inherent risks should not include alterations by one party of a contract afforded the ability to change that contract without both parties agreeing to the changes.

I have a problem with signing a contract where the other party can change that contract at will without both parties agreeing to that change. In order for anyone to challenge that bait and switch technique they have to fully understand how the courts and the law works.

Personal responsibility and accountability is what many of us out here have asked for. It flows both ways. It can't only work one way. There is no way that any one person can take on a giant corporation that changes and alters the paperwork after the fact without going to court. Going to court is no guarantee for a layman that they will recieve justice when these corporations go after them. If you do not know how to play the legal cat and mouse game you cannot win.

 

[dilloduck]

People say they want to leave it alone and not have the government involved, while the past 2 to 3 decades all our Congress has done is be involved in making regulations and laws that make it better and more profitable for the Credit card banks?

where were all of these people that are now saying they don't want our government involved back when our government got involved to change things in to the favor of the banks and less favorable to their constituants, who they are suppose to protect and represent?

I have no problem at all with out government getting involved to reverse some of the things congress changed that hurt all of us.

The thing is, I just don't TRUST congress because they are the ones that changed things that allowed us to be abused in the first place due to the bank lobbying front court press that they succumbed to in the first place...

Sometimes I wonder if they just don't do the wrong thing, so they can come back and play the HERO with their constituants later....

if you don't trust congress (and rightly so) why do you want them involved in anything ?

 

[Care4all]

People say they want to leave it alone and not have the government involved, while the past 2 to 3 decades all our Congress has done is be involved in making regulations and laws that make it better and more profitable for the Credit card banks?

where were all of these people that are now saying they don't want our government involved back when our government got involved to change things in to the favor of the banks and less favorable to their constituants, who they are suppose to protect and represent?

I have no problem at all with out government getting involved to reverse some of the things congress changed that hurt all of us.

The thing is, I just don't TRUST congress because they are the ones that changed things that allowed us to be abused in the first place due to the bank lobbying front court press that they succumbed to in the first place...

Sometimes I wonder if they just don't do the wrong thing, so they can come back and play the HERO with their constituants later....

if you don't trust congress (and rightly so) why do you want them involved in anything ?

dillo,
Leaving it the way it was changed to would be wrong, unjust....maybe some of the regulation changes are good ones and can stay but many of them are not fair business practice.

The only thing that can be done, is to watch them like a hawk on this and squawk as loud as we can if we see some hanky panky betweem them and the banks taking place.

 

[007]

I think they SHOULD make it clear that if you pay your VISA bill late, that Mastercard WILL impose a default interest rate, sometimes 30%, even if you've never been so much as five minutes late paying your mastercard.

This happened to me. When I moved back here from Reno I missed a payment on ONE of my five credit cards. The bill got tossed into a pile or something, I don't know, but I missed it in the confusion of moving. In any case, I didn't panic because I'd had that card for over twenty years. I thought I'll just call them and pay whatever to catch it back up. Well I did that BUT, they hiked my interest rate from 10% up to 23% without notice. I called them and asked them to lower it back down to what it was and they said, "that might be possible if I didn't make another late payment for a YEAR!" I told them to stick their card where the sun don't shine and close the account. In the meantime, the other four credit cards I had began automatically raising my interest rate also, AND lowered my credit limit. I called and asked them what they were doing that for when I'd never, EVER missed or had a late payment to THEM, and they said because of what happened on the OTHER card. I also then told them to stick their cards where the sun don't shine and close the accounts. I now have NO credit card, and feel absolutely LIBERATED. I don't think there's a bigger group of SHYSTERS on earth than those filthy credit card companies.

WTF -- you're a loyal customer for 20 years and they screw you over because you missed one payment? This type of thing is flat out wrong.

Bailing out people who don't read the fine print? No. Changing the way cc and banks screw people? Yes.

There's only one difference between Vinnie the loan shark and a credit card company... the credit cards are legal.... for the time being.

I'll never have another credit card. Not unless they lower their interest rates down to reasonable numbers.

 

[editec]

The mafia charges you the vig and TELLS YOU what it will be BEFORE you take the money

They don't change the VIG after you borrowed the money.

The credit game including our credit ratings is a farce.

Didn't USED to be that way, folks.

Some of you are old enough to understand what I'm talking about.