Creationists

[Youwerecreated]

What went wrong and still is going wrong people are choosing satans world over God's world.

What is telling is that you do not dare to tell who's at fault here -- no matter ho many times I asked. Is it the people themselves consciously choose to follow satan? Or if satan blinded them against their will, why God allowed this?

Some people see sin as innocent ,there is nothing wrong with it so that is how the conscience gets warped and people don't even realize that is happening.

Why most people don't realize? Because God created them this way, or because God failed to show them, or because God allows satan to blind them?

Your side can't even explain or verify where this conscience came from and they can't explain this voice inside us teaching us right from wrong.

Of course it can.

I thought I made the answer clear. It is the person who uses free will and decides the path they go down. Satan does does blind us with distraction but we allow ourselves to be distracted by satan.

Wrong, God has provided us a way to help in our decision making,it's called the conscience and his word. People have to start taking responsibility for their choices.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Faith in what exactly? I honestly don't know what is that thing that you think I have a faith in. Why don't you tell me?

For starters macro-evolution,it has never been observed.

So what, there is more than enough indirect evidence. This is not a faith, this is the best explanation of what we see -- which still can be wrong.

No, It's human nature to look at evidence and it explain in a way to support our presuppositions. Some of the honest scientist speak out against the theory because of the lack of evidence and they see the new evidence that becomes a problem for the theory.

Especially the origins of life question.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Despite the obvious opportunity to do so, you fail to identify my "faulty presuppositions."

Since your track record is unambiguous on this account, we'll just proceed knowing you can't identify any such "faulty presuppositions."

You didn't ask me about gradualism, did you? I believe the actual issue was macro-evolution, yes?

Douche.

Yes I have identified your faulty presuppositions by the questions I have asked You.

No, you asked some questions, identifying only that you forgot I had answered those questions a dozen times already.

Since your track record is unambiguous on this account, we'll just proceed knowing you can't identify any such "faulty presuppositions."

Of course because the fossil record is a problem for your theory because of the lack of evidence for gradualism.

Evolution and gradualism are not the same thing, and evolution is not dependent upon gradualism for validity. The fossil record really does not invalidate gradualism either.

Despite the obvious opportunity to do so, you fail to identify this "problem."

Since your track record is unambiguous on this account, we'll just proceed knowing you can't identify any such "problem."

Oh no you havn't you have linked to people trying to explain the answer to the question and it still lacked evidence.

Even evoluitionist admit your side should not use fossil evidence as support of the theory.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Despite the obvious opportunity to do so, you fail to identify my "faulty presuppositions."

Since your track record is unambiguous on this account, we'll just proceed knowing you can't identify any such "faulty presuppositions."

You didn't ask me about gradualism, did you? I believe the actual issue was macro-evolution, yes?

Douche.

Yes I have identified your faulty presuppositions by the questions I have asked You.

No, you asked some questions, identifying only that you forgot I had answered those questions a dozen times already.

Since your track record is unambiguous on this account, we'll just proceed knowing you can't identify any such "faulty presuppositions."

Of course because the fossil record is a problem for your theory because of the lack of evidence for gradualism.

Evolution and gradualism are not the same thing, and evolution is not dependent upon gradualism for validity. The fossil record really does not invalidate gradualism either.

Despite the obvious opportunity to do so, you fail to identify this "problem."

Since your track record is unambiguous on this account, we'll just proceed knowing you can't identify any such "problem."

Evolution is not gradualism

Sorry Loki but you are barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Youwerecreated]

You didn't ask for proof, you disingenuous retard, you asked for evidence.

No one is disputing the existence or role of genetic drift, you retard.

Proof comes from evidence nitwit.

Not for Creationists, retard.

That is right and I have explained to you why there are changes in small populations and it is through genetic drift not mutations.

The retard is not I.

Yes. I am aware that you insist that among all the various ways that a difference in genotype might arise, it is only those differences in genotype caused by mutation that cannot possibly lead to differences in phenotype.

You're so deeply retarded.

Back up your claim moron.

 

[Youwerecreated]

The theory of punctuated equilibrium is entirely compatible with the theory of evolution, and in no way invalidates gradualism ... at least according to those who proposed punctuated equilibrium.

Not if you believe in gradualism and that is what your theory teaches.

Think will you.

Since the theory of punctuated equilibrium is entirely compatible with the theory of evolution and in no way invalidates gradualism, what's your point?

Explain how they are compatible ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

Woyzeck another thing your side ignores is, since the Genome project mapped the Genome they have discovered there is no junk DNA how do you explain that ?

While you are at it,explain all the organs that was once thought to serve no purpose are now considered to serve a purpose ?

 

[ilia25]

What went wrong and still is going wrong people are choosing satans world over God's world.

What is telling is that you do not dare to tell who's at fault here -- no matter ho many times I asked. Is it the people themselves consciously choose to follow satan? Or if satan blinded them against their will, why God allowed this?



Why most people don't realize? Because God created them this way, or because God failed to show them, or because God allows satan to blind them?

Your side can't even explain or verify where this conscience came from and they can't explain this voice inside us teaching us right from wrong.

Of course it can.

I thought I made the answer clear. It is the person who uses free will and decides the path they go down.

The question was WHY most of people use their free will to make what you think are wrong decisions? What motivates them?

Satan does does blind us with distraction but we allow ourselves to be distracted by satan.

Why would anyone allow himself to be distracted by satan?

Wrong, God has provided us a way to help in our decision making,it's called the conscience and his word.

And WHY what God provided is apparently not enough for the most people?

 

[UltimateReality]

Despite the obvious opportunity to do so, you fail to identify my "faulty presuppositions."

Since your track record is unambiguous on this account, we'll just proceed knowing you can't identify any such "faulty presuppositions."

You didn't ask me about gradualism, did you? I believe the actual issue was macro-evolution, yes?

Douche.

Yes I have identified your faulty presuppositions by the questions I have asked You.

No, you asked some questions, identifying only that you forgot I had answered those questions a dozen times already.

Since your track record is unambiguous on this account, we'll just proceed knowing you can't identify any such "faulty presuppositions."

Of course because the fossil record is a problem for your theory because of the lack of evidence for gradualism.

Evolution and gradualism are not the same thing, and evolution is not dependent upon gradualism for validity. The fossil record really does not invalidate gradualism either.

Despite the obvious opportunity to do so, you fail to identify this "problem."

Since your track record is unambiguous on this account, we'll just proceed knowing you can't identify any such "problem."

Loki, you move the goalpost so many times I'm not even sure you know where the field is anymore!!!

 

[UltimateReality]

On RNA World...

"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you..."

 

[Youwerecreated]

On RNA World...

"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you..."

 

[daws101]

Look up a few terms and you see there definitely is a hell but it's not what you think it is.

Start with the terms sheol and hades.

DODGE, i KNOW THOSE TERMS.
YOU OR ANY BODY ELSE HAVE NO EXPERIENCE OR FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE THAT HELL EXISTS
WHEN YOU SAY YOU DO YOU'RE PILING IT HIGH AND DEEP!

The best discription of hell is : hell is the absence of reason...

Wrong, world of the dead,in other words the grave.

another one wizzes right past you...i'll make it easy " of all the man made disciption of hell this is the best: hell is the absence of reason.
your version presupposes that consciousness survives death and that hell actually exists.
also Hades ( /ˈheɪdiːz/; from Greek ᾍδης (older form Ἀϝίδη&#962, Hadēs, originally Ἅιδης, Haidēs or Άΐδης, Aidēs (Doric Ἀΐδας Aidas), meaning "the unseen"[1]) was the ancient Greek god of the underworld. The genitive ᾍδου, Haidou, was an elision to denote locality: "[the house/dominion] of Hades". Eventually, the nominative came to designate the abode of the dead.
so again your ignorance shines!

 

[The Irish Ram]

What is telling is that you do not dare to tell who's at fault here -- no matter ho many times I asked. Is it the people themselves consciously choose to follow satan? Or if satan blinded them against their will, why God allowed this?



Why most people don't realize? Because God created them this way, or because God failed to show them, or because God allows satan to blind them?



Of course it can.

I thought I made the answer clear. It is the person who uses free will and decides the path they go down.

The question was WHY most of people use their free will to make what you think are wrong decisions? What motivates them?

Satan does does blind us with distraction but we allow ourselves to be distracted by satan.

Why would anyone allow himself to be distracted by satan?

Wrong, God has provided us a way to help in our decision making,it's called the conscience and his word.

And WHY what God provided is apparently not enough for the most people?

Some people do choose to follow Satan. This goes back to an argument between God and Satan concerning the will of God's children, < we are unique in that respect. Angels stand, His children sit at His table. It is Satan's contention that if God gave us a choice, we would dis Him for Satan every time.
Satan is so skillful, that we can be led like puppies and we don't even know he's there, or that what he is proposing is considered sin. So as not to be taken advantage of, God (in his instruction manual) explains how to avoid "slings and arrows" from Satan by putting on the armor of God for complete protection. An absence of knowledge leaves us vulnerable, which is why we are urged to study his word. He did not leave us on our own when dealing with Satan because he knows we are no match.
Knowledge exposes Satan. The more you know about Satan, the quicker you realize when he's there.

Satan motivates bad decisions.

We allow our selves to be distracted by ignorance on how not to be distracted, and a corrupt human spirit that desires earthly things. Hence: Put the human spirit to death daily and your chances of being mislead decrease dramatically.

What God provided is more than enough, we just don't bother to acquaint ourselves with His instruction, or we decide to ignore it in favor of, or a desire for, immediate gratification.

 

[daws101]

I thought I made the answer clear. It is the person who uses free will and decides the path they go down.

The question was WHY most of people use their free will to make what you think are wrong decisions? What motivates them?



Why would anyone allow himself to be distracted by satan?

Wrong, God has provided us a way to help in our decision making,it's called the conscience and his word.

And WHY what God provided is apparently not enough for the most people?

Some people do choose to follow Satan. This goes back to an argument between God and Satan concerning the will of God's children, < we are unique in that respect. Angels stand, His children sit at His table. It is Satan's contention that if God gave us a choice, we would dis Him for Satan every time.
Satan is so skillful, that we can be led like puppies and we don't even know he's there, or that what he is proposing is considered sin. So as not to be taken advantage of, God (in his instruction manual) explains how to avoid "slings and arrows" from Satan by putting on the armor of God for complete protection. An absence of knowledge leaves us vulnerable, which is why we are urged to study his word. He did not leave us on our own when dealing with Satan because he knows we are no match.
Knowledge exposes Satan. The more you know about Satan, the quicker you realize when he's there.

Satan motivates bad decisions.

We allow our selves to be distracted by ignorance on how not to be distracted, and a corrupt human spirit that desires earthly things. Hence: Put the human spirit to death daily and your chances of being mislead decrease dramatically.

What God provided is more than enough, we just don't bother to acquaint ourselves with His instruction, or we decide to ignore it in favor of, or a desire for, immediate gratification.

 

[ilia25]

So as not to be taken advantage of, God (in his instruction manual) explains how to avoid "slings and arrows" from Satan by putting on the armor of God for complete protection.

My question is why most people who has access to the Bible and its Christian teaching find it so unconvincing? Why God did such a poor job at writing the "instruction manual" that it fails to resolve the very issue it was created for?

And it is not like God was facing an impossible task -- I can imagine countless things that God could have done in order to convince me and other people that Christianity is the way. Instead, He made the Bible look as 1000s years old fairy tale (no offence), and He put all fossils and other evidence that make TOE look as plausible, as any scientific theory can possibly be!

 

[Youwerecreated]

DODGE, i KNOW THOSE TERMS.
YOU OR ANY BODY ELSE HAVE NO EXPERIENCE OR FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE THAT HELL EXISTS
WHEN YOU SAY YOU DO YOU'RE PILING IT HIGH AND DEEP!

The best discription of hell is : hell is the absence of reason...

Wrong, world of the dead,in other words the grave.

another one wizzes right past you...i'll make it easy " of all the man made disciption of hell this is the best: hell is the absence of reason.
your version presupposes that consciousness survives death and that hell actually exists.
also Hades ( /&#712;he&#618;di&#720;z/; from Greek &#8077;&#948;&#951;&#962; (older form &#7944;&#989;&#943;&#948;&#951;&#962, Had&#275;s, originally &#7949;&#953;&#948;&#951;&#962;, Haid&#275;s or &#902;&#912;&#948;&#951;&#962;, Aid&#275;s (Doric &#7944;&#912;&#948;&#945;&#962; Aidas), meaning "the unseen"[1]) was the ancient Greek god of the underworld. The genitive &#8077;&#948;&#959;&#965;, Haidou, was an elision to denote locality: "[the house/dominion] of Hades". Eventually, the nominative came to designate the abode of the dead.
so again your ignorance shines!

Someone calling someone ignorant that does not know what he is talking about is priceless

Some people have taken a few verses out of context and present that hell is Gods place for torment or torture when it is only the grave and it's described as a state of sleep until the resurrection. God does not torment people nor torture people. That is a misrepresentation of the scriptures. Hell and hades are two different lanuages that mean the same thing.



Psa 139:8 If I go up into Heaven, You are there; if I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.

Psa 139:8 IfH518 I ascend upH5266 into heaven,H8064 thouH859 art there:H8033 if I make my bedH3331 in hell,H7585 behold,H2009 thou art there.

Hell
H7585
&#1513;&#1473;&#1488;&#1500; &#1513;&#1473;&#1488;&#1493;&#1500;
she'o&#770;l she'o&#770;l
sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.

Here Jonah refers to the belly of the fish as sheol because he thought he was gonna die.

Jon 2:2 and he said, I cried to Jehovah from my distress. And He answered me. Out of the belly of Sheol I cried for help, and You heard my voice.


Jon 2:2 And said,H559 I criedH7121 by reason of mine afflictionH4480 H6869 untoH413 the LORD,H3068 and he heardH6030 me; out of the bellyH4480 H990 of hellH7585 criedH7768 I, and thou heardestH8085 my voice.H6963

When you die you go to the grave and your thoughts perish,you are no more until the resurrection. Death is a state of sleep,there is no more life for the dead until the resurrection.

Psa 146:4 His breath goes forth; he returns to the earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Now Jesus speaking of the state of the dead.

Joh 11:11 He said these things; and after that He said to them, Our friend Lazarus sleeps. But I go so that I may awaken him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12 Then His disciples said, Lord, if he sleeps, he will get well.
Joh 11:13 But Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He had spoken of taking rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, Lazarus is dead.


Joh 11:17 Then when Jesus came, He found him already being held in the tomb four days.
Joh 11:18 And Bethany was near Jerusalem, fifteen stadia away.
Joh 11:19 And many of the Jews came to Martha and Mary in order to comfort them concerning their brother.
Joh 11:20 Then when Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she met Him. But Mary was sitting in the house.
Joh 11:21 Then Martha said to Jesus, Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died.
Joh 11:22 But I know that even now, whatever You will ask of God, God will give You.
Joh 11:23 Jesus said to her, Your brother shall rise again.
Joh 11:24 Martha said to Him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said to her, I am the Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live.
Joh 11:26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?
Joh 11:27 She said to Him, Yes, Lord, I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who has come into the world.
Joh 11:28 And saying these things, she went away and called Mary her sister secretly, saying, The Teacher has come and calls you.
Joh 11:29 As soon as she heard, she arose quickly and came to him.
Joh 11:30 Now Jesus had not yet come into the town, but was in that place where Martha met Him.
Joh 11:31 Then the Jews who were with her in the house, and comforted her, when they saw that Mary rose up hastily and went out, they followed her, saying, She is going to the tomb to weep there.
Joh 11:32 Then when Mary had come where Jesus was, seeing Him, Mary fell down at His feet, saying to Him, Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died.
Joh 11:33 Then when He saw her weeping, and also the Jews who came with her weeping, Jesus groaned in the spirit and troubled Himself.
Joh 11:34 And He said, Where have you laid him? They said to Him, Lord, come and see.
Joh 11:35 Jesus wept.
Joh 11:36 Then the Jews said, Behold how He loved him!
Joh 11:37 And some of them said, Was not this Man who opened the eyes of the blind able also to cause that even this one should not have died?
Joh 11:38 Then Jesus, groaning in Himself again, came to the tomb. And it was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.
Joh 11:39 Jesus said, Take away the stone. Martha, the sister of him who died, said to Him, Lord, by this time he stinks. For it is the fourth day.
Joh 11:40 Jesus answered her, Did I not say to you that if you would believe you would see the glory of God?
Joh 11:41 Then they took away the stone where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up His eyes and said, Father, I thank You that You have heard Me.
Joh 11:42 And I know that You hear Me always, but because of the people who stand by I said it, so that they may believe that You have sent Me.
Joh 11:43 And saying these things, He cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, Here! Outside!
Joh 11:44 And he who had died came out, bound hand and foot with sheets, and his face was bound with a cloth. Jesus said to them, Untie him and let him go!
Joh 11:45 Then many of the Jews who came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on Him.

Believers will be resurrected to life like lazarus on judgment day. There will be believers who will never die because they will be alive at his second coming.

 

[Youwerecreated]

So as not to be taken advantage of, God (in his instruction manual) explains how to avoid "slings and arrows" from Satan by putting on the armor of God for complete protection.

My question is why most people who has access to the Bible and its Christian teaching find it so unconvincing? Why God did such a poor job at writing the "instruction manual" that it fails to resolve the very issue it was created for?

And it is not like God was facing an impossible task -- I can imagine countless things that God could have done in order to convince me and other people that Christianity is the way. Instead, He made the Bible look as 1000s years old fairy tale (no offence), and He put all fossils and other evidence that make TOE look as plausible, as any scientific theory can possibly be!

The bible was not designed to give you all the answers to life. It gives you history both good and bad. It helps you in making proper decisions and living a good life,and for kickers God gave you a conscience to help guide you. No one is perfect and we fall short of pleasing God but we can have forgivness.

Satan blinds peoples minds to sound reason. You see you are trusting in the teachings of man rather then the teachings of God that is why you see fairy tales in the bible. You fail to understand all things are possible with God.

Mat 19:26 But Jesus looked on them and said to them, With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

 

[Youwerecreated]

The question was WHY most of people use their free will to make what you think are wrong decisions? What motivates them?



Why would anyone allow himself to be distracted by satan?



And WHY what God provided is apparently not enough for the most people?

Some people do choose to follow Satan. This goes back to an argument between God and Satan concerning the will of God's children, < we are unique in that respect. Angels stand, His children sit at His table. It is Satan's contention that if God gave us a choice, we would dis Him for Satan every time.
Satan is so skillful, that we can be led like puppies and we don't even know he's there, or that what he is proposing is considered sin. So as not to be taken advantage of, God (in his instruction manual) explains how to avoid "slings and arrows" from Satan by putting on the armor of God for complete protection. An absence of knowledge leaves us vulnerable, which is why we are urged to study his word. He did not leave us on our own when dealing with Satan because he knows we are no match.
Knowledge exposes Satan. The more you know about Satan, the quicker you realize when he's there.

Satan motivates bad decisions.

We allow our selves to be distracted by ignorance on how not to be distracted, and a corrupt human spirit that desires earthly things. Hence: Put the human spirit to death daily and your chances of being mislead decrease dramatically.

What God provided is more than enough, we just don't bother to acquaint ourselves with His instruction, or we decide to ignore it in favor of, or a desire for, immediate gratification.

Laugh now, because the bible is clear on what the non-believer will be doing on the day of judgment.

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every freeman, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains.
Rev 6:16 And they said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him sitting on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;
Rev 6:17 for the great day of His wrath has come, and who will be able to stand?

 

[The Irish Ram]

So as not to be taken advantage of, God (in his instruction manual) explains how to avoid "slings and arrows" from Satan by putting on the armor of God for complete protection.

My question is why most people who has access to the Bible and its Christian teaching find it so unconvincing? Why God did such a poor job at writing the "instruction manual" that it fails to resolve the very issue it was created for?

And it is not like God was facing an impossible task -- I can imagine countless things that God could have done in order to convince me and other people that Christianity is the way. Instead, He made the Bible look as 1000s years old fairy tale (no offence), and He put all fossils and other evidence that make TOE look as plausible, as any scientific theory can possibly be!

The Bible is an incredibly hard read, and you can study it for a lifetime and still not be able to pull it all together. But you can read it once and get started. The more studying you do the less unconvincing it becomes. To lay it all at our feet would remove faith from the equation. God would rather we feel his presence than to acknowledge it. He has given what he feels is necessary for us to get through this phase of our soul's existence. And, to make sense of what he DID give us, he promises to grant us the wisdom to understand it, if we ask for her. We rarely ask.
Science, fossils, cosmos, will all come together with 100% accuracy, when we get smart enough to make the connections. We are getting there.
For instance:
The body of Jesus was a flesh and bone body, but was glorified, after his death and no longer subject to gravity. What he was seen doing in that glorified body proved that there were at LEAST 6 dimensions. We have recently come to the scientific reality that there are probably more than the 4 dimensions we have figured out thus far. Ten most likely and if there are ten, then an infinite number of dimensions is now a possibility. The Bible had already revealed that to "those who have ears." Look how long it took "science" to catch up.

 

[UltimateReality]

A positive, testable case for Intelligent Design:

A Positive, Testable Case for Intelligent Design - Evolution News & Views

Let's see if Loki can come up with an actual logical argument to rebutt this. Or see if he just throws out common fallacies as the reason it isn't true without any detailed explanation for how the argument is a fallacy like he always does.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy