Cowardly police run from protestors in minneapolis

Tipsycatlover

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The police need to replace the rubber bullets with Metallic ones
I do not know the facts in this case and since we cannot believe the media(especially in regards to racial matters) I will wait and see in regards to commenting on whether or not the police are guilty of misbehavior as in the guys death could have been due to natural causes as in a heart attack due to the stress of the event which he may have caused himself.

But a certain minority always wants to use these rare cases where it appears one of their members may have been mistreated to cause havoc in their city and or neighborhoods.....this should not be tolerated.

Blacks have access to the judicial system and that is where they should take their grievances...yet what we see time and again is for them to use violence or the threat of violence to get their way.

They know full well that politicians will cave in to them ...even to the point of indicting and arresting those who may be completely innocent and in some cases obviously so....like in the zimmerman case and now in the infamous Jawja jogga case...but the politicians are not interested in truth or justice...they only want to protect their careers and avoid being labeled racist...thus the blacks are able to extort or more like blackmail liberal politicians to give in to them.
I saw video where two cops had him walking around in hand cuffed with his hands behind his back and started to sit him down leaning against the wall a a building prior to walking him some more, without him struggling. Of course everybody has seen the video on the guy held down with a knee on the side of his neck and heard him pleading that he couldn't breath before he passed out. Are you saying one of the two videos made on somebody's home computer and is fake? Which one?
What’s that have to do with looting?
Oh, you probably skipped the OP's post at beginning of thread. He thinks the riots and looting is caused by the mainstream media. I think the riots and looting was sparked by the cops killing that guy while multiple people filmed it with their cellphones. Protests that turn into angry mobs is about mob psychology which to me is like a cattle herd that gets spooked and stampedes. You got a different theory? The OP thinks the cops are cowards, which I doubt. So he and I are not agreeing about a lot tonight. Are you a mainstream media started it guy, a cops are cowards guy, or somebody who thinks the cops should not have killed that handcuffed guy?
The cops aren't cowards. They are prohibited from fighting back so they may as well leave. We don't pay them to sit around until they get torn apart by sub human savages.

I have had the misfortune to have been in more than one riot. The Watts Riots, the Rodney King Riot and the smaller Staples Riot. The entire point of the riot is the looting and arson.
Don't worry. I was just quoting the OP not taking his side. For protection of human life when the rioters are not attacking people or firing weapons, standing back is probably the best method. Tactics have changed over the years since the 60s. Some people have not noticed. Were you a newsy or Law Enforcement? I certainly can't picture you breaking windows and stealing TVs.
Just a long time Southern California resident and criminal defense lawyer.

In Ohio the entire government abandoned the state house. Did you see that? I'm afraid democrats are entering the final act.
interesting. A little quieter over here in Tennessee.
No I did not see that til you mentioned. You think the whole situation will calm any now that at least the Officer holding him down has been taken into custody? 50/50? or think into the weekend to Sunday?
It has now been revealed the Negro died of natural causes and the fact he got over stressed by arguing with the police and resisting arrest.

in a nutshell he caused his own death....like I suggested previously.
The authorities do not agree. they seem to think the former officer killed him.

A white former Minneapolis police officer was charged with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter on Friday after a shocking video of him kneeling for nearly nine minutes on the neck of a black man set off a wave of protests across the country.
The former officer, Derek Chauvin, 44, was taken into custody on charges that carry a combined maximum 35-year sentence. Mr. Chauvin kept his knee planted even as the man, George Floyd, told all four officers involved in his arrest that he could not breathe. At times, Mr. Floyd begged “please” and cried out “mama,” according to a statement of probable cause released by prosecutors.
“The defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total,” the court document said. “Two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive.”
It is now known he died of natural causes....he was in very bad health ...heart problems etc.
Maybe you should contact him to take his case.
The case should be dismissed now that that the autopsy reveals he died of natural causes.
No. Clearly the officer has committed a manslaughter. His acts were the proximate cause of the man's death.

Who would have suspected that these black men were so fragile?
 
OP
MacTheKnife

MacTheKnife

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The police need to replace the rubber bullets with Metallic ones
I do not know the facts in this case and since we cannot believe the media(especially in regards to racial matters) I will wait and see in regards to commenting on whether or not the police are guilty of misbehavior as in the guys death could have been due to natural causes as in a heart attack due to the stress of the event which he may have caused himself.

But a certain minority always wants to use these rare cases where it appears one of their members may have been mistreated to cause havoc in their city and or neighborhoods.....this should not be tolerated.

Blacks have access to the judicial system and that is where they should take their grievances...yet what we see time and again is for them to use violence or the threat of violence to get their way.

They know full well that politicians will cave in to them ...even to the point of indicting and arresting those who may be completely innocent and in some cases obviously so....like in the zimmerman case and now in the infamous Jawja jogga case...but the politicians are not interested in truth or justice...they only want to protect their careers and avoid being labeled racist...thus the blacks are able to extort or more like blackmail liberal politicians to give in to them.
I saw video where two cops had him walking around in hand cuffed with his hands behind his back and started to sit him down leaning against the wall a a building prior to walking him some more, without him struggling. Of course everybody has seen the video on the guy held down with a knee on the side of his neck and heard him pleading that he couldn't breath before he passed out. Are you saying one of the two videos made on somebody's home computer and is fake? Which one?
What’s that have to do with looting?
Oh, you probably skipped the OP's post at beginning of thread. He thinks the riots and looting is caused by the mainstream media. I think the riots and looting was sparked by the cops killing that guy while multiple people filmed it with their cellphones. Protests that turn into angry mobs is about mob psychology which to me is like a cattle herd that gets spooked and stampedes. You got a different theory? The OP thinks the cops are cowards, which I doubt. So he and I are not agreeing about a lot tonight. Are you a mainstream media started it guy, a cops are cowards guy, or somebody who thinks the cops should not have killed that handcuffed guy?
The cops aren't cowards. They are prohibited from fighting back so they may as well leave. We don't pay them to sit around until they get torn apart by sub human savages.

I have had the misfortune to have been in more than one riot. The Watts Riots, the Rodney King Riot and the smaller Staples Riot. The entire point of the riot is the looting and arson.
Don't worry. I was just quoting the OP not taking his side. For protection of human life when the rioters are not attacking people or firing weapons, standing back is probably the best method. Tactics have changed over the years since the 60s. Some people have not noticed. Were you a newsy or Law Enforcement? I certainly can't picture you breaking windows and stealing TVs.
Just a long time Southern California resident and criminal defense lawyer.

In Ohio the entire government abandoned the state house. Did you see that? I'm afraid democrats are entering the final act.
interesting. A little quieter over here in Tennessee.
No I did not see that til you mentioned. You think the whole situation will calm any now that at least the Officer holding him down has been taken into custody? 50/50? or think into the weekend to Sunday?
It has now been revealed the Negro died of natural causes and the fact he got over stressed by arguing with the police and resisting arrest.

in a nutshell he caused his own death....like I suggested previously.
The authorities do not agree. they seem to think the former officer killed him.

A white former Minneapolis police officer was charged with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter on Friday after a shocking video of him kneeling for nearly nine minutes on the neck of a black man set off a wave of protests across the country.
The former officer, Derek Chauvin, 44, was taken into custody on charges that carry a combined maximum 35-year sentence. Mr. Chauvin kept his knee planted even as the man, George Floyd, told all four officers involved in his arrest that he could not breathe. At times, Mr. Floyd begged “please” and cried out “mama,” according to a statement of probable cause released by prosecutors.
“The defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total,” the court document said. “Two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive.”
It is now known he died of natural causes....he was in very bad health ...heart problems etc.
Maybe you should contact him to take his case.
The case should be dismissed now that that the autopsy reveals he died of natural causes.
Call Vegas. They are back open and will take bets on anything.
I think it is a sure bet that charges will not be dismissed....the beast must be fed.
 

Tipsycatlover

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The police need to replace the rubber bullets with Metallic ones
I do not know the facts in this case and since we cannot believe the media(especially in regards to racial matters) I will wait and see in regards to commenting on whether or not the police are guilty of misbehavior as in the guys death could have been due to natural causes as in a heart attack due to the stress of the event which he may have caused himself.

But a certain minority always wants to use these rare cases where it appears one of their members may have been mistreated to cause havoc in their city and or neighborhoods.....this should not be tolerated.

Blacks have access to the judicial system and that is where they should take their grievances...yet what we see time and again is for them to use violence or the threat of violence to get their way.

They know full well that politicians will cave in to them ...even to the point of indicting and arresting those who may be completely innocent and in some cases obviously so....like in the zimmerman case and now in the infamous Jawja jogga case...but the politicians are not interested in truth or justice...they only want to protect their careers and avoid being labeled racist...thus the blacks are able to extort or more like blackmail liberal politicians to give in to them.
I saw video where two cops had him walking around in hand cuffed with his hands behind his back and started to sit him down leaning against the wall a a building prior to walking him some more, without him struggling. Of course everybody has seen the video on the guy held down with a knee on the side of his neck and heard him pleading that he couldn't breath before he passed out. Are you saying one of the two videos made on somebody's home computer and is fake? Which one?
What’s that have to do with looting?
Oh, you probably skipped the OP's post at beginning of thread. He thinks the riots and looting is caused by the mainstream media. I think the riots and looting was sparked by the cops killing that guy while multiple people filmed it with their cellphones. Protests that turn into angry mobs is about mob psychology which to me is like a cattle herd that gets spooked and stampedes. You got a different theory? The OP thinks the cops are cowards, which I doubt. So he and I are not agreeing about a lot tonight. Are you a mainstream media started it guy, a cops are cowards guy, or somebody who thinks the cops should not have killed that handcuffed guy?
The cops aren't cowards. They are prohibited from fighting back so they may as well leave. We don't pay them to sit around until they get torn apart by sub human savages.

I have had the misfortune to have been in more than one riot. The Watts Riots, the Rodney King Riot and the smaller Staples Riot. The entire point of the riot is the looting and arson.
Don't worry. I was just quoting the OP not taking his side. For protection of human life when the rioters are not attacking people or firing weapons, standing back is probably the best method. Tactics have changed over the years since the 60s. Some people have not noticed. Were you a newsy or Law Enforcement? I certainly can't picture you breaking windows and stealing TVs.
Just a long time Southern California resident and criminal defense lawyer.

In Ohio the entire government abandoned the state house. Did you see that? I'm afraid democrats are entering the final act.
interesting. A little quieter over here in Tennessee.
No I did not see that til you mentioned. You think the whole situation will calm any now that at least the Officer holding him down has been taken into custody? 50/50? or think into the weekend to Sunday?
It has now been revealed the Negro died of natural causes and the fact he got over stressed by arguing with the police and resisting arrest.

in a nutshell he caused his own death....like I suggested previously.
The authorities do not agree. they seem to think the former officer killed him.

A white former Minneapolis police officer was charged with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter on Friday after a shocking video of him kneeling for nearly nine minutes on the neck of a black man set off a wave of protests across the country.
The former officer, Derek Chauvin, 44, was taken into custody on charges that carry a combined maximum 35-year sentence. Mr. Chauvin kept his knee planted even as the man, George Floyd, told all four officers involved in his arrest that he could not breathe. At times, Mr. Floyd begged “please” and cried out “mama,” according to a statement of probable cause released by prosecutors.
“The defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total,” the court document said. “Two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive.”
What did I say? Manslaughter. They stuck in a third degree murder charge for fun. They won't be able to make that stick. There was no underlying felony.
Even though there is no requirement for an underlying felony in Minnesota 609.195 Murder in the third degree?
What makes it third degree?
 

freyasman

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The police need to replace the rubber bullets with Metallic ones
I do not know the facts in this case and since we cannot believe the media(especially in regards to racial matters) I will wait and see in regards to commenting on whether or not the police are guilty of misbehavior as in the guys death could have been due to natural causes as in a heart attack due to the stress of the event which he may have caused himself.

But a certain minority always wants to use these rare cases where it appears one of their members may have been mistreated to cause havoc in their city and or neighborhoods.....this should not be tolerated.

Blacks have access to the judicial system and that is where they should take their grievances...yet what we see time and again is for them to use violence or the threat of violence to get their way.

They know full well that politicians will cave in to them ...even to the point of indicting and arresting those who may be completely innocent and in some cases obviously so....like in the zimmerman case and now in the infamous Jawja jogga case...but the politicians are not interested in truth or justice...they only want to protect their careers and avoid being labeled racist...thus the blacks are able to extort or more like blackmail liberal politicians to give in to them.
I saw video where two cops had him walking around in hand cuffed with his hands behind his back and started to sit him down leaning against the wall a a building prior to walking him some more, without him struggling. Of course everybody has seen the video on the guy held down with a knee on the side of his neck and heard him pleading that he couldn't breath before he passed out. Are you saying one of the two videos made on somebody's home computer and is fake? Which one?
What’s that have to do with looting?
Oh, you probably skipped the OP's post at beginning of thread. He thinks the riots and looting is caused by the mainstream media. I think the riots and looting was sparked by the cops killing that guy while multiple people filmed it with their cellphones. Protests that turn into angry mobs is about mob psychology which to me is like a cattle herd that gets spooked and stampedes. You got a different theory? The OP thinks the cops are cowards, which I doubt. So he and I are not agreeing about a lot tonight. Are you a mainstream media started it guy, a cops are cowards guy, or somebody who thinks the cops should not have killed that handcuffed guy?
It doesn’t take much for the BLM crowd to start a riot. Plenty of people get murdered in this country every day. But these losers are just waiting for a “white kills black” on camera to give themselves an excuse to riot and make the news. I guess they think America will finally “listen to them” in their pleas for “social justice”. Thing is, no one is buying their shit. America keeps rejecting their racist bullshit, and they are losing their minds over it.
Have you ever heard the old saying. The straw that broke the camels back? It is a curious truth. A straw is a very light item. It might weigh an ounce. If that. Probably less.

Yet the truth is that at some point, that straw exceeds the maximum capacity of something, like a camels back.

But what it implies is a lot of things were put on there first. A lot of straws. My father used to ask me what I would rather be crushed by. A ton of feathers, or a ton of lead? I would answer feathers because they were lighter and softer. The truth is as I grew and matured I figured out that what the material was did not matter. It was the ton that was the important part of the discussion. A ton of feathers would crush me as effectively as the lead would.

So let’s talk about those straws. Thousands of them piled up on the Camels back. Bullshit traffic stops to check for drugs. Do you own this car, and a thousand other nonsense interactions. Arrests for questionable reasons, and planted evidence. And finally the last straw falls, and it is imperfect. But it is the last straw. It is the one that will tip it over to disaster, crushing the Camel.

You deride the camel for surrendering to his one straw, but you don’t give it any credit for holding up under all the others.

You like to bring up Ferguson as an example. Well we know that Ferguson was violating the civil rights of the citizens. We know that Ferguson police were dumping bullshit charges on people. Including my personal favorite, charging a man they had beaten to a pulp for destruction of public property. The specifics? He bled on the police during the altercation, and ruined their uniforms. Seriously. He wasn’t the guy they were looking for, he wasn’t the man with a warrant. He had committed no crime. The charges were resisting arrest, and destruction of public property.

The DOJ using the same investigation standards started long before and carried out during the entire administration of W. Bush, found that Ferguson was violating the Constitution in many areas.

Yes, Mike Brown was an imperfect straw, but there were a lot of straws on that camel that were less imperfect. This situation is another imperfect straw, but there are a lot of straws dumped on the camel every day.
All you have is heresay.....the same thing that motivates any mob or lynching party.....yet when blacks do it....a different standard is applied .aika oh dey entitled.
No, we have the results of the investigation into the Ferguson Police Department which I highlighted.


Now, if it was your family, and friends, who were the victims of unconstitutional policing. Even if they were not arrested, wouldn’t you get angry? Wouldn’t that anger simmer?

The problem is that we view such things as individual incidents. Oh a cop just went a little too far. Oh this cop made a bad choice. We don’t think of the cumulative effect of it. Like Chinese Water Torture, a tiny thing adds up after time and repetition.

None of this is new, it is all old news. Baltimore, the Freddy Gray. No video there. But hey, the result was the same. And the investigation into the Police Department was as predictable.

The police had a pattern of unconstitutional stops, searches, and arrests. Each one of those was a straw on a camels back. Small and insignificant in the grand scheme, and taken with the other small and insignificant events, eventually certain to overwhelm the ability to resist.


Do I support Riots? Absolutely not. Do I understand why they are angry? I probably can not truly imagine the rage. But I do understand that the rage exists, and why. Now, Trump and Sessions shut down those DOJ department wide investigations. So now nobody is examining the policies and practices of the Police Departments. And that is always a bad thing. Because the oath Trump took was the same one every Federal Official took. To support and defend the Constitution. That means defending the rights contained within.

We have to be determined to defend those rights, of every citizen, every single time.
You are sounding more and more like a leftist.

There is zero excuse for the riots, and the riots alone were worse than police brutality for decades.

If you want to see the cops actually do something wrong, see how they arrested the business owner who defended his business against the savages. See how they arrest Americans for covid stupidity. A true wrong.
I wrote that I did not agree with the riots, but I understood the Underlying cause for the anger.

Odd isn’t it, that you are intent to label me? Ok. Here is the labels for you.

By Rural Georgia Standards I am reasonably Liberal. I am a member of the ACLU, NRA, and USCCA. I believe that we are duty bound to defend the rights contained within the Constitution. All the rights. Not just the second, or the first, or the fifth. All of them.

By San Francisco, or New York Standards, I am a rabid right wing radical gun nut bible thumping redneck asshole. Because I believe in God, and I believe that we all have the right to keep and bear arms. I don’t fly the American Flag, and haven’t in many years. I am ashamed of what my Country has become. The Department of Homeland Insecurity. The National Security Letters, and the violations of the Constitution that happen to prevent “IT” from ever happening again. That it has never worked, doesn’t matter to the supporters of the excesses. We must make the sacrifice if it means we can prevent even one terrorist attack.

I believe that if the Police or Prosecutors conduct misconduct, withhold evidence, lie, plant evidence, and any of the routine things, that we have to drop the charges. I believe that the Constitution intends us to make it hard to convict someone, and those restrictions are intended to prevent an innocent from going to prison. I agree wholeheartedly with the statement of Justice Blackwell. It is better for a thousand guilty men to go free, than one innocent man go to prison.

I believe you have a right to defend yourself. I also believe society has a duty to review the circumstances of that defense to insure it was justified. I do not care what color the people are, they have a right to self defense.

I believe the Civil War is nothing of the sort. A civil war is where two factions are fighting for control of the Government. The Southern States wanted to leave the Union, not control it.

I believe it is stupid and self destructive to hate. History has shown that when you hate, you become the mirror image of the thing you hate. Hitler hated the Jews and Soviets. So he embraced Fascism, which was bereft of a dimes worth of difference from the Soviets. The same secret police, the same rampant authoritarian nonsense. The same brutality. The same disregard for life. I believe there were no good guys on the Eastern Front, and that the T-34 was hands down the best tank of the entire war.
No one cares what you believe. However, we can't miss what you are doing - playing on the enemy lines. You should try hating the enemy instead of loving and you wouldn't be making such a stupid mistake. Reasonable people hate their enemies and evil.

There is no reason at all for you to defend them. No virtue points will be awarded, they know and hate their enemies - which is all Americans yourself included.
Reasonable people hate? Great. In the 1980’s, we were taught that we were the superior political system. One of those reasons given was the rights, and the constitution. Soviet Citizens had no such rights, and the secret police could break whatever rules existed, for the good of the State. We were taught that our system with its flaws was superior, because it allowed individual freedoms, and competition spurred advancement.

Today, our Secret Police are able to break the rules, and nobody minds because of Terrorism. Or something. The rights we so valiantly defended in the 1980’s, and 1990’s, were swept away in 2002. So what do I hate?

Do I hate the enemy I joined the Army and trained to defeat to defend the Constitution? Do I hate their abuses of the people? Their corrupt and vile system that trampled the rights of their own citizens? If so, who is the enemy? Because that would mean I would have to hate my own country, rather than be disappointed and even a little ashamed. I can’t very well hate the country I swore an oath to defend.

Hate is a weapon for your enemy. It poisons your soul. But let’s go to my Catholic Upbringing. I was taught that hate was a sin. I could defeat opponents without hating them. Playing hard in sports did not mean hating the opponent. Respect them, learn from them, learn about them, and defeat them. But Hate clouds your judgement, and you commit the sin. St. Augustine is famous for the quote of Hate the sin, and love the sinner. How could you not love another of God’s creations? Even while you must kill him in a war, and I did, I did not hate.

I joined the Army. I joined the Airborne, and went to war with the 82nd Airborne. I fought fellow soldiers in bar fights. But I never hated any of them. I fought Iraq and lost friends from our sister unit, the 37th Engineers. I did not hate the Iraqi’s. I believed they must be stopped, and pushed out of Kuwait. I did not believe we should eliminate all of them. When we took prisoners, I insured that the prisoners were treated in accordance with the laws of war.

Martial Arts teach us that hate and anger are weapons for your enemy. If hating my enemy makes the enemy stronger, why would I do so? The basic premise of Sun Tzu is to never do what your enemy wants. So if by hating him I make him stronger, and myself weaker, and it is what my enemy wants, why would I do it?

It is better to use determination, than hate. Even when you must kill your enemy, have no hate in your heart. Resolve is stronger, than hate, and lasts longer.

I don’t hate the North for the Civil war, and I don’t hate the South. I don’t hate the idiot racists. I have disdain for them, and utterly reject their flawed philosophy, but I don’t hate them. Black or whatever, brown or blue. It doesn’t matter. Hate makes you stupid, and stupid people are defeated easily.
There is far more racism and hate in the black community than the white.

Anyhow, hate is a relative term as in different people have different concepts of it.

The term like 'racism' is so misused I am reluctant to even talk about it.
Basically it is just a human emotion...not some demon like entity which you portend to make it into.

Like any human emotion it can be used for good or bad....it all comes down to what you hate.

Racism is a bias. A predisposition to believe a stereotype. Hate is an irrational emotion based upon those biased feelings.

Blacks who believe that all Whites are out to get them are wrong. Just as the Whites who claim Blacks are criminal and violent as a people. Both feel their bias is justified. Both are wrong.

I do not hate either Group. I feel disgust. I feel resolve not to fall into the easy hatreds. I feel determined to do the right thing.

I eschew the entire premise that one group of people is inherently evil. They may be wrong. But they are not evil.
You don’t hate black people rushing into a police precinct to burn it down looting stores? I hate to see who you do like
I think it was wrong. I think it was criminal. I think it was stupid. I do not hate those who did it.
When do you hate them! The 2nd building they loot or the tenth? Or just hug them lol
Who do I need to hate someone to stop them? We, and I mean my company. We killed more than five hundred people. I did not hate them. I still do not.

Hate is not necessary to stop someone. I can shoot someone invading my house today without hating them. In fact. Hate would cloud my judgement. I might miss a second person if I am not thinking. And I could end up dead.

Hating someone is exactly the opposite of the lessons that Jesus taught. The Serbs and Croats hated each other for centuries. It got more people dead for things that happened generations ago. Muslims and Jews hate. And they are still fighting.

Hate is one of those emotions you should try to resist and control. It does not make you stronger or smarter. It makes you weaker. You embrace evil yourself to justify your hate.

I do not hate anyone. I would not give them that kind of power over me.
It is truly astounding to watch you virtue signal about how you don't hate anyone, and how hating someone means giving them power over you. Truly pathetic...

This is exactly what the enemies of the people want to hear. Them being allowed to grow in power, while supposedly "good" people like yourself do nothing. Doing something about their evil would mean giving power to them after all.

That is if anyone accepts that you truly are as confused as you claim, and not simply a other disciple of the evil master, devoted to diversion.
The crews who dropped bombs on Japan were relieved that the Atomic Bomb had been dropped. They hated dropping the firebombs on Tokyo and the other cities. So they hated what they were doing more than the enemy? Yet we still won. They hated the smell of roasting burning flesh. The planes smelled of it even when they returned to base hours later.

Patton hated the Soviets so much he wanted to arm the Fascists to turn them East and go and get the Soviets. How did he defeat the Nazi’s if he hated the Soviets more?

A professional boxer does not hate his opponent. He wants to win, but he has resolve, determination, and desire. He fights hard, and risks brain injuries to win, and even death, but is not stupid enough to hate.

If hate is a good emotion, are there any bad ones? How about lust? Lusting after your neighbors wife or property is a sin isn’t it? Well God gave us those emotions they must be good. Adultery is from lust, and Adultery is a sin. But God gave us those emotions, they must be good.

Idiocy. Absolute idiocy. Every lesson from the Bible says not to do it. Every lesson from history shows that when you hate, you become the mirror of what you hate. So you become the thing you hate.

So the Left hates Conservatives. Run on issues, and populist ideals, and you’ll win generally speaking. Not every election, but enough to maintain control, if history is any indicator. When you embrace the hate, you drive supporters away.

Because the “enemy” does something, does not mean I have to. Because the Japanese tortured POW’s does not mean I need to. In fact, I would be wiser, much much wiser, not to. History, again, clearly shows that the most effective interrogation technique is not torture, anger, hatred. It is compassion, understanding, and patience. Atrocities do not dissuade the enemy, it gives them more reason to hate. Your hate, fuels their hate, and vice versa.

The worst thing to do to a Terrorist, is the one thing your Hatred won’t allow you to even consider. It is a trial, with all the rights, and bells and whistles intact. This allows you to show them to be nothing but common criminals. No more important than any run of the mill murderer.

When you torture them, to get information that is crap, you make yourself look weak. Stupid.
More nonsense....https://www.winonadailynews.com/news/opinion/columnists/other/glenn-garvin-ugly-truth-but-sometimes-torture-works/article_4d33c06e-b813-11e2-bcc9-001a4bcf887a.htmlGlenn Garvin: Ugly truth, but sometimes torture works
Torture is the worst method for gaining information. Seriously, the worst. You get far more information, from other means.


Now that is the result of the CIA’s own defense of their “enhanced interrogation” program. They did not get much information, and they got more information through other means, and it was better.

Now, you could argue that the CIA wasn’t torturing them enough. But let’s take the case of the RW’s Torture Champion. Former Congressman, Former Colonel in the Army. Alan West.

Alan West had his soldiers “detain” through a beating, a suspect. Then he decided the suspect was not afraid of the mean old Soldiers. So he fired his weapon next to the ear of the suspect. The suspect gave up names and locations. Nothing was found. No plans, no weapons, nothing. Later the Suspect said he made it up because he was afraid.

He made it up. A very common result in Torture. It is what our own troops did in Vietnam. Ted Williams the noted Baseball player was the commander of pretty much every unit. At least that was the name the guys gave up most often.

Sure, some real information made it out, but for the most part, they gave up garbage. Now, are Americans significantly different than the Terrorists? I mean, are our troops somehow motivated to withstand torture longer?
The expertise of the interrogators vary considerably some are more effective using one method some are more effective using others.

Just because one guy got bad info from using waterboarding or whatever does not mean that another interrogator will not be able to get good info.

I think the interrogation of prisoners should be left to those on the scene....they should not be under some pc b.s. that would hamper their best efforts to extract intelligence.

The real key is that we need the best interrogators with the freedom to do what they think is required.

Some indiot bureaucrat back in Washington should have no say over how prisoners are interrogated.

Anyhow on to something else.............I remember years ago sitting in a C 119 on a runway in Ft. Benning waiting for the plane to take off and wondering why in the hell anyone would want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane. hehheh

Thanks for your service but it always sad to see a fellow vet(particuarly an airborne one) get so confused about what is happening in America today.
There is no such thing as a "perfectly good airplane"; mechanical devices sometimes fail.
What's crazy, is getting on a plane without a parachute..... what are you gonna do if something goes wrong?

At least I can get off the damn bird.
 

Levant

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Face the facts. The guy was in precarious health and it killed him. Just like Eric Garner and Freddie Gray.
Freddie Gray had a broken neck...That's a pretty serious health condition. If only the cops who gave it to him had known; then they wouldn't have given him the joy ride.

Eric Garner could have been tazed, or waited out or even talked down; but he is at least the proof that the cops already know that choking kills. These are not the two cases that back up your lies. These are two who were murdered by the cops and the cops got away with it.
 
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MacTheKnife

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Am I the only one getting these real long black lines running down the page that requires you to scroll and scroll and get nowhere and wind up on another thread somehow?

This always happens on my computer when threads get real long.
 
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MacTheKnife

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The police need to replace the rubber bullets with Metallic ones
I do not know the facts in this case and since we cannot believe the media(especially in regards to racial matters) I will wait and see in regards to commenting on whether or not the police are guilty of misbehavior as in the guys death could have been due to natural causes as in a heart attack due to the stress of the event which he may have caused himself.

But a certain minority always wants to use these rare cases where it appears one of their members may have been mistreated to cause havoc in their city and or neighborhoods.....this should not be tolerated.

Blacks have access to the judicial system and that is where they should take their grievances...yet what we see time and again is for them to use violence or the threat of violence to get their way.

They know full well that politicians will cave in to them ...even to the point of indicting and arresting those who may be completely innocent and in some cases obviously so....like in the zimmerman case and now in the infamous Jawja jogga case...but the politicians are not interested in truth or justice...they only want to protect their careers and avoid being labeled racist...thus the blacks are able to extort or more like blackmail liberal politicians to give in to them.
I saw video where two cops had him walking around in hand cuffed with his hands behind his back and started to sit him down leaning against the wall a a building prior to walking him some more, without him struggling. Of course everybody has seen the video on the guy held down with a knee on the side of his neck and heard him pleading that he couldn't breath before he passed out. Are you saying one of the two videos made on somebody's home computer and is fake? Which one?
What’s that have to do with looting?
Oh, you probably skipped the OP's post at beginning of thread. He thinks the riots and looting is caused by the mainstream media. I think the riots and looting was sparked by the cops killing that guy while multiple people filmed it with their cellphones. Protests that turn into angry mobs is about mob psychology which to me is like a cattle herd that gets spooked and stampedes. You got a different theory? The OP thinks the cops are cowards, which I doubt. So he and I are not agreeing about a lot tonight. Are you a mainstream media started it guy, a cops are cowards guy, or somebody who thinks the cops should not have killed that handcuffed guy?
It doesn’t take much for the BLM crowd to start a riot. Plenty of people get murdered in this country every day. But these losers are just waiting for a “white kills black” on camera to give themselves an excuse to riot and make the news. I guess they think America will finally “listen to them” in their pleas for “social justice”. Thing is, no one is buying their shit. America keeps rejecting their racist bullshit, and they are losing their minds over it.
Have you ever heard the old saying. The straw that broke the camels back? It is a curious truth. A straw is a very light item. It might weigh an ounce. If that. Probably less.

Yet the truth is that at some point, that straw exceeds the maximum capacity of something, like a camels back.

But what it implies is a lot of things were put on there first. A lot of straws. My father used to ask me what I would rather be crushed by. A ton of feathers, or a ton of lead? I would answer feathers because they were lighter and softer. The truth is as I grew and matured I figured out that what the material was did not matter. It was the ton that was the important part of the discussion. A ton of feathers would crush me as effectively as the lead would.

So let’s talk about those straws. Thousands of them piled up on the Camels back. Bullshit traffic stops to check for drugs. Do you own this car, and a thousand other nonsense interactions. Arrests for questionable reasons, and planted evidence. And finally the last straw falls, and it is imperfect. But it is the last straw. It is the one that will tip it over to disaster, crushing the Camel.

You deride the camel for surrendering to his one straw, but you don’t give it any credit for holding up under all the others.

You like to bring up Ferguson as an example. Well we know that Ferguson was violating the civil rights of the citizens. We know that Ferguson police were dumping bullshit charges on people. Including my personal favorite, charging a man they had beaten to a pulp for destruction of public property. The specifics? He bled on the police during the altercation, and ruined their uniforms. Seriously. He wasn’t the guy they were looking for, he wasn’t the man with a warrant. He had committed no crime. The charges were resisting arrest, and destruction of public property.

The DOJ using the same investigation standards started long before and carried out during the entire administration of W. Bush, found that Ferguson was violating the Constitution in many areas.

Yes, Mike Brown was an imperfect straw, but there were a lot of straws on that camel that were less imperfect. This situation is another imperfect straw, but there are a lot of straws dumped on the camel every day.
All you have is heresay.....the same thing that motivates any mob or lynching party.....yet when blacks do it....a different standard is applied .aika oh dey entitled.
No, we have the results of the investigation into the Ferguson Police Department which I highlighted.


Now, if it was your family, and friends, who were the victims of unconstitutional policing. Even if they were not arrested, wouldn’t you get angry? Wouldn’t that anger simmer?

The problem is that we view such things as individual incidents. Oh a cop just went a little too far. Oh this cop made a bad choice. We don’t think of the cumulative effect of it. Like Chinese Water Torture, a tiny thing adds up after time and repetition.

None of this is new, it is all old news. Baltimore, the Freddy Gray. No video there. But hey, the result was the same. And the investigation into the Police Department was as predictable.

The police had a pattern of unconstitutional stops, searches, and arrests. Each one of those was a straw on a camels back. Small and insignificant in the grand scheme, and taken with the other small and insignificant events, eventually certain to overwhelm the ability to resist.


Do I support Riots? Absolutely not. Do I understand why they are angry? I probably can not truly imagine the rage. But I do understand that the rage exists, and why. Now, Trump and Sessions shut down those DOJ department wide investigations. So now nobody is examining the policies and practices of the Police Departments. And that is always a bad thing. Because the oath Trump took was the same one every Federal Official took. To support and defend the Constitution. That means defending the rights contained within.

We have to be determined to defend those rights, of every citizen, every single time.
You are sounding more and more like a leftist.

There is zero excuse for the riots, and the riots alone were worse than police brutality for decades.

If you want to see the cops actually do something wrong, see how they arrested the business owner who defended his business against the savages. See how they arrest Americans for covid stupidity. A true wrong.
I wrote that I did not agree with the riots, but I understood the Underlying cause for the anger.

Odd isn’t it, that you are intent to label me? Ok. Here is the labels for you.

By Rural Georgia Standards I am reasonably Liberal. I am a member of the ACLU, NRA, and USCCA. I believe that we are duty bound to defend the rights contained within the Constitution. All the rights. Not just the second, or the first, or the fifth. All of them.

By San Francisco, or New York Standards, I am a rabid right wing radical gun nut bible thumping redneck asshole. Because I believe in God, and I believe that we all have the right to keep and bear arms. I don’t fly the American Flag, and haven’t in many years. I am ashamed of what my Country has become. The Department of Homeland Insecurity. The National Security Letters, and the violations of the Constitution that happen to prevent “IT” from ever happening again. That it has never worked, doesn’t matter to the supporters of the excesses. We must make the sacrifice if it means we can prevent even one terrorist attack.

I believe that if the Police or Prosecutors conduct misconduct, withhold evidence, lie, plant evidence, and any of the routine things, that we have to drop the charges. I believe that the Constitution intends us to make it hard to convict someone, and those restrictions are intended to prevent an innocent from going to prison. I agree wholeheartedly with the statement of Justice Blackwell. It is better for a thousand guilty men to go free, than one innocent man go to prison.

I believe you have a right to defend yourself. I also believe society has a duty to review the circumstances of that defense to insure it was justified. I do not care what color the people are, they have a right to self defense.

I believe the Civil War is nothing of the sort. A civil war is where two factions are fighting for control of the Government. The Southern States wanted to leave the Union, not control it.

I believe it is stupid and self destructive to hate. History has shown that when you hate, you become the mirror image of the thing you hate. Hitler hated the Jews and Soviets. So he embraced Fascism, which was bereft of a dimes worth of difference from the Soviets. The same secret police, the same rampant authoritarian nonsense. The same brutality. The same disregard for life. I believe there were no good guys on the Eastern Front, and that the T-34 was hands down the best tank of the entire war.
No one cares what you believe. However, we can't miss what you are doing - playing on the enemy lines. You should try hating the enemy instead of loving and you wouldn't be making such a stupid mistake. Reasonable people hate their enemies and evil.

There is no reason at all for you to defend them. No virtue points will be awarded, they know and hate their enemies - which is all Americans yourself included.
Reasonable people hate? Great. In the 1980’s, we were taught that we were the superior political system. One of those reasons given was the rights, and the constitution. Soviet Citizens had no such rights, and the secret police could break whatever rules existed, for the good of the State. We were taught that our system with its flaws was superior, because it allowed individual freedoms, and competition spurred advancement.

Today, our Secret Police are able to break the rules, and nobody minds because of Terrorism. Or something. The rights we so valiantly defended in the 1980’s, and 1990’s, were swept away in 2002. So what do I hate?

Do I hate the enemy I joined the Army and trained to defeat to defend the Constitution? Do I hate their abuses of the people? Their corrupt and vile system that trampled the rights of their own citizens? If so, who is the enemy? Because that would mean I would have to hate my own country, rather than be disappointed and even a little ashamed. I can’t very well hate the country I swore an oath to defend.

Hate is a weapon for your enemy. It poisons your soul. But let’s go to my Catholic Upbringing. I was taught that hate was a sin. I could defeat opponents without hating them. Playing hard in sports did not mean hating the opponent. Respect them, learn from them, learn about them, and defeat them. But Hate clouds your judgement, and you commit the sin. St. Augustine is famous for the quote of Hate the sin, and love the sinner. How could you not love another of God’s creations? Even while you must kill him in a war, and I did, I did not hate.

I joined the Army. I joined the Airborne, and went to war with the 82nd Airborne. I fought fellow soldiers in bar fights. But I never hated any of them. I fought Iraq and lost friends from our sister unit, the 37th Engineers. I did not hate the Iraqi’s. I believed they must be stopped, and pushed out of Kuwait. I did not believe we should eliminate all of them. When we took prisoners, I insured that the prisoners were treated in accordance with the laws of war.

Martial Arts teach us that hate and anger are weapons for your enemy. If hating my enemy makes the enemy stronger, why would I do so? The basic premise of Sun Tzu is to never do what your enemy wants. So if by hating him I make him stronger, and myself weaker, and it is what my enemy wants, why would I do it?

It is better to use determination, than hate. Even when you must kill your enemy, have no hate in your heart. Resolve is stronger, than hate, and lasts longer.

I don’t hate the North for the Civil war, and I don’t hate the South. I don’t hate the idiot racists. I have disdain for them, and utterly reject their flawed philosophy, but I don’t hate them. Black or whatever, brown or blue. It doesn’t matter. Hate makes you stupid, and stupid people are defeated easily.
There is far more racism and hate in the black community than the white.

Anyhow, hate is a relative term as in different people have different concepts of it.

The term like 'racism' is so misused I am reluctant to even talk about it.
Basically it is just a human emotion...not some demon like entity which you portend to make it into.

Like any human emotion it can be used for good or bad....it all comes down to what you hate.

Racism is a bias. A predisposition to believe a stereotype. Hate is an irrational emotion based upon those biased feelings.

Blacks who believe that all Whites are out to get them are wrong. Just as the Whites who claim Blacks are criminal and violent as a people. Both feel their bias is justified. Both are wrong.

I do not hate either Group. I feel disgust. I feel resolve not to fall into the easy hatreds. I feel determined to do the right thing.

I eschew the entire premise that one group of people is inherently evil. They may be wrong. But they are not evil.
You don’t hate black people rushing into a police precinct to burn it down looting stores? I hate to see who you do like
I think it was wrong. I think it was criminal. I think it was stupid. I do not hate those who did it.
When do you hate them! The 2nd building they loot or the tenth? Or just hug them lol
Who do I need to hate someone to stop them? We, and I mean my company. We killed more than five hundred people. I did not hate them. I still do not.

Hate is not necessary to stop someone. I can shoot someone invading my house today without hating them. In fact. Hate would cloud my judgement. I might miss a second person if I am not thinking. And I could end up dead.

Hating someone is exactly the opposite of the lessons that Jesus taught. The Serbs and Croats hated each other for centuries. It got more people dead for things that happened generations ago. Muslims and Jews hate. And they are still fighting.

Hate is one of those emotions you should try to resist and control. It does not make you stronger or smarter. It makes you weaker. You embrace evil yourself to justify your hate.

I do not hate anyone. I would not give them that kind of power over me.
It is truly astounding to watch you virtue signal about how you don't hate anyone, and how hating someone means giving them power over you. Truly pathetic...

This is exactly what the enemies of the people want to hear. Them being allowed to grow in power, while supposedly "good" people like yourself do nothing. Doing something about their evil would mean giving power to them after all.

That is if anyone accepts that you truly are as confused as you claim, and not simply a other disciple of the evil master, devoted to diversion.
The crews who dropped bombs on Japan were relieved that the Atomic Bomb had been dropped. They hated dropping the firebombs on Tokyo and the other cities. So they hated what they were doing more than the enemy? Yet we still won. They hated the smell of roasting burning flesh. The planes smelled of it even when they returned to base hours later.

Patton hated the Soviets so much he wanted to arm the Fascists to turn them East and go and get the Soviets. How did he defeat the Nazi’s if he hated the Soviets more?

A professional boxer does not hate his opponent. He wants to win, but he has resolve, determination, and desire. He fights hard, and risks brain injuries to win, and even death, but is not stupid enough to hate.

If hate is a good emotion, are there any bad ones? How about lust? Lusting after your neighbors wife or property is a sin isn’t it? Well God gave us those emotions they must be good. Adultery is from lust, and Adultery is a sin. But God gave us those emotions, they must be good.

Idiocy. Absolute idiocy. Every lesson from the Bible says not to do it. Every lesson from history shows that when you hate, you become the mirror of what you hate. So you become the thing you hate.

So the Left hates Conservatives. Run on issues, and populist ideals, and you’ll win generally speaking. Not every election, but enough to maintain control, if history is any indicator. When you embrace the hate, you drive supporters away.

Because the “enemy” does something, does not mean I have to. Because the Japanese tortured POW’s does not mean I need to. In fact, I would be wiser, much much wiser, not to. History, again, clearly shows that the most effective interrogation technique is not torture, anger, hatred. It is compassion, understanding, and patience. Atrocities do not dissuade the enemy, it gives them more reason to hate. Your hate, fuels their hate, and vice versa.

The worst thing to do to a Terrorist, is the one thing your Hatred won’t allow you to even consider. It is a trial, with all the rights, and bells and whistles intact. This allows you to show them to be nothing but common criminals. No more important than any run of the mill murderer.

When you torture them, to get information that is crap, you make yourself look weak. Stupid.
More nonsense....https://www.winonadailynews.com/news/opinion/columnists/other/glenn-garvin-ugly-truth-but-sometimes-torture-works/article_4d33c06e-b813-11e2-bcc9-001a4bcf887a.htmlGlenn Garvin: Ugly truth, but sometimes torture works
Torture is the worst method for gaining information. Seriously, the worst. You get far more information, from other means.


Now that is the result of the CIA’s own defense of their “enhanced interrogation” program. They did not get much information, and they got more information through other means, and it was better.

Now, you could argue that the CIA wasn’t torturing them enough. But let’s take the case of the RW’s Torture Champion. Former Congressman, Former Colonel in the Army. Alan West.

Alan West had his soldiers “detain” through a beating, a suspect. Then he decided the suspect was not afraid of the mean old Soldiers. So he fired his weapon next to the ear of the suspect. The suspect gave up names and locations. Nothing was found. No plans, no weapons, nothing. Later the Suspect said he made it up because he was afraid.

He made it up. A very common result in Torture. It is what our own troops did in Vietnam. Ted Williams the noted Baseball player was the commander of pretty much every unit. At least that was the name the guys gave up most often.

Sure, some real information made it out, but for the most part, they gave up garbage. Now, are Americans significantly different than the Terrorists? I mean, are our troops somehow motivated to withstand torture longer?
The expertise of the interrogators vary considerably some are more effective using one method some are more effective using others.

Just because one guy got bad info from using waterboarding or whatever does not mean that another interrogator will not be able to get good info.

I think the interrogation of prisoners should be left to those on the scene....they should not be under some pc b.s. that would hamper their best efforts to extract intelligence.

The real key is that we need the best interrogators with the freedom to do what they think is required.

Some indiot bureaucrat back in Washington should have no say over how prisoners are interrogated.

Anyhow on to something else.............I remember years ago sitting in a C 119 on a runway in Ft. Benning waiting for the plane to take off and wondering why in the hell anyone would want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane. hehheh

Thanks for your service but it always sad to see a fellow vet(particuarly an airborne one) get so confused about what is happening in America today.
There is no such thing as a "perfectly good airplane"; mechanical devices sometimes fail.
What's crazy, is getting on a plane without a parachute..... what are you gonna do if something goes wrong?

At least I can get off the damn bird.
hehheh I know the feeling...I feel kinda nekid wid out mah chute.
I remember once we were all chuted up and ready to get on a C 130 and on the same runway was a civilian airliner getting ready to take off (Howard AFB) and our platoon sgt. says 'you guys are worried but those guys on that plane are the ones that should be worried.'

Not long after that one of the civilian planes flying from there did crash....a bunch of people were killed.
 

Tipsycatlover

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Face the facts. The guy was in precarious health and it killed him. Just like Eric Garner and Freddie Gray.
Freddie Gray had a broken neck...That's a pretty serious health condition. If only the cops who gave it to him had known; then they wouldn't have given him the joy ride.

Eric Garner could have been tazed, or waited out or even talked down; but he is at least the proof that the cops already know that choking kills. These are not the two cases that back up your lies. These are two who were murdered by the cops and the cops got away with it.
Neither Freddie Gray or Eric Garner should have been criminals.
 

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Just heard on the Laura show. It was the mayor that ordered the police station abandoned.
 

White 6

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The police need to replace the rubber bullets with Metallic ones
I do not know the facts in this case and since we cannot believe the media(especially in regards to racial matters) I will wait and see in regards to commenting on whether or not the police are guilty of misbehavior as in the guys death could have been due to natural causes as in a heart attack due to the stress of the event which he may have caused himself.

But a certain minority always wants to use these rare cases where it appears one of their members may have been mistreated to cause havoc in their city and or neighborhoods.....this should not be tolerated.

Blacks have access to the judicial system and that is where they should take their grievances...yet what we see time and again is for them to use violence or the threat of violence to get their way.

They know full well that politicians will cave in to them ...even to the point of indicting and arresting those who may be completely innocent and in some cases obviously so....like in the zimmerman case and now in the infamous Jawja jogga case...but the politicians are not interested in truth or justice...they only want to protect their careers and avoid being labeled racist...thus the blacks are able to extort or more like blackmail liberal politicians to give in to them.
I saw video where two cops had him walking around in hand cuffed with his hands behind his back and started to sit him down leaning against the wall a a building prior to walking him some more, without him struggling. Of course everybody has seen the video on the guy held down with a knee on the side of his neck and heard him pleading that he couldn't breath before he passed out. Are you saying one of the two videos made on somebody's home computer and is fake? Which one?
What’s that have to do with looting?
Oh, you probably skipped the OP's post at beginning of thread. He thinks the riots and looting is caused by the mainstream media. I think the riots and looting was sparked by the cops killing that guy while multiple people filmed it with their cellphones. Protests that turn into angry mobs is about mob psychology which to me is like a cattle herd that gets spooked and stampedes. You got a different theory? The OP thinks the cops are cowards, which I doubt. So he and I are not agreeing about a lot tonight. Are you a mainstream media started it guy, a cops are cowards guy, or somebody who thinks the cops should not have killed that handcuffed guy?
The cops aren't cowards. They are prohibited from fighting back so they may as well leave. We don't pay them to sit around until they get torn apart by sub human savages.

I have had the misfortune to have been in more than one riot. The Watts Riots, the Rodney King Riot and the smaller Staples Riot. The entire point of the riot is the looting and arson.
Don't worry. I was just quoting the OP not taking his side. For protection of human life when the rioters are not attacking people or firing weapons, standing back is probably the best method. Tactics have changed over the years since the 60s. Some people have not noticed. Were you a newsy or Law Enforcement? I certainly can't picture you breaking windows and stealing TVs.
Just a long time Southern California resident and criminal defense lawyer.

In Ohio the entire government abandoned the state house. Did you see that? I'm afraid democrats are entering the final act.
interesting. A little quieter over here in Tennessee.
No I did not see that til you mentioned. You think the whole situation will calm any now that at least the Officer holding him down has been taken into custody? 50/50? or think into the weekend to Sunday?
It has now been revealed the Negro died of natural causes and the fact he got over stressed by arguing with the police and resisting arrest.

in a nutshell he caused his own death....like I suggested previously.
The authorities do not agree. they seem to think the former officer killed him.

A white former Minneapolis police officer was charged with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter on Friday after a shocking video of him kneeling for nearly nine minutes on the neck of a black man set off a wave of protests across the country.
The former officer, Derek Chauvin, 44, was taken into custody on charges that carry a combined maximum 35-year sentence. Mr. Chauvin kept his knee planted even as the man, George Floyd, told all four officers involved in his arrest that he could not breathe. At times, Mr. Floyd begged “please” and cried out “mama,” according to a statement of probable cause released by prosecutors.
“The defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total,” the court document said. “Two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive.”
What did I say? Manslaughter. They stuck in a third degree murder charge for fun. They won't be able to make that stick. There was no underlying felony.
Even though there is no requirement for an underlying felony in Minnesota 609.195 Murder in the third degree?
What makes it third degree?
I posted the complete statute here somewhere, sounded like it fit, although I am aware prosecutors often over charge trying to find something the jury will buy off on. Your the barrister, not me. You already mentioned stuff I never heard of.
 

White 6

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The police need to replace the rubber bullets with Metallic ones
I do not know the facts in this case and since we cannot believe the media(especially in regards to racial matters) I will wait and see in regards to commenting on whether or not the police are guilty of misbehavior as in the guys death could have been due to natural causes as in a heart attack due to the stress of the event which he may have caused himself.

But a certain minority always wants to use these rare cases where it appears one of their members may have been mistreated to cause havoc in their city and or neighborhoods.....this should not be tolerated.

Blacks have access to the judicial system and that is where they should take their grievances...yet what we see time and again is for them to use violence or the threat of violence to get their way.

They know full well that politicians will cave in to them ...even to the point of indicting and arresting those who may be completely innocent and in some cases obviously so....like in the zimmerman case and now in the infamous Jawja jogga case...but the politicians are not interested in truth or justice...they only want to protect their careers and avoid being labeled racist...thus the blacks are able to extort or more like blackmail liberal politicians to give in to them.
I saw video where two cops had him walking around in hand cuffed with his hands behind his back and started to sit him down leaning against the wall a a building prior to walking him some more, without him struggling. Of course everybody has seen the video on the guy held down with a knee on the side of his neck and heard him pleading that he couldn't breath before he passed out. Are you saying one of the two videos made on somebody's home computer and is fake? Which one?
What’s that have to do with looting?
Oh, you probably skipped the OP's post at beginning of thread. He thinks the riots and looting is caused by the mainstream media. I think the riots and looting was sparked by the cops killing that guy while multiple people filmed it with their cellphones. Protests that turn into angry mobs is about mob psychology which to me is like a cattle herd that gets spooked and stampedes. You got a different theory? The OP thinks the cops are cowards, which I doubt. So he and I are not agreeing about a lot tonight. Are you a mainstream media started it guy, a cops are cowards guy, or somebody who thinks the cops should not have killed that handcuffed guy?
It doesn’t take much for the BLM crowd to start a riot. Plenty of people get murdered in this country every day. But these losers are just waiting for a “white kills black” on camera to give themselves an excuse to riot and make the news. I guess they think America will finally “listen to them” in their pleas for “social justice”. Thing is, no one is buying their shit. America keeps rejecting their racist bullshit, and they are losing their minds over it.
Have you ever heard the old saying. The straw that broke the camels back? It is a curious truth. A straw is a very light item. It might weigh an ounce. If that. Probably less.

Yet the truth is that at some point, that straw exceeds the maximum capacity of something, like a camels back.

But what it implies is a lot of things were put on there first. A lot of straws. My father used to ask me what I would rather be crushed by. A ton of feathers, or a ton of lead? I would answer feathers because they were lighter and softer. The truth is as I grew and matured I figured out that what the material was did not matter. It was the ton that was the important part of the discussion. A ton of feathers would crush me as effectively as the lead would.

So let’s talk about those straws. Thousands of them piled up on the Camels back. Bullshit traffic stops to check for drugs. Do you own this car, and a thousand other nonsense interactions. Arrests for questionable reasons, and planted evidence. And finally the last straw falls, and it is imperfect. But it is the last straw. It is the one that will tip it over to disaster, crushing the Camel.

You deride the camel for surrendering to his one straw, but you don’t give it any credit for holding up under all the others.

You like to bring up Ferguson as an example. Well we know that Ferguson was violating the civil rights of the citizens. We know that Ferguson police were dumping bullshit charges on people. Including my personal favorite, charging a man they had beaten to a pulp for destruction of public property. The specifics? He bled on the police during the altercation, and ruined their uniforms. Seriously. He wasn’t the guy they were looking for, he wasn’t the man with a warrant. He had committed no crime. The charges were resisting arrest, and destruction of public property.

The DOJ using the same investigation standards started long before and carried out during the entire administration of W. Bush, found that Ferguson was violating the Constitution in many areas.

Yes, Mike Brown was an imperfect straw, but there were a lot of straws on that camel that were less imperfect. This situation is another imperfect straw, but there are a lot of straws dumped on the camel every day.
All you have is heresay.....the same thing that motivates any mob or lynching party.....yet when blacks do it....a different standard is applied .aika oh dey entitled.
No, we have the results of the investigation into the Ferguson Police Department which I highlighted.


Now, if it was your family, and friends, who were the victims of unconstitutional policing. Even if they were not arrested, wouldn’t you get angry? Wouldn’t that anger simmer?

The problem is that we view such things as individual incidents. Oh a cop just went a little too far. Oh this cop made a bad choice. We don’t think of the cumulative effect of it. Like Chinese Water Torture, a tiny thing adds up after time and repetition.

None of this is new, it is all old news. Baltimore, the Freddy Gray. No video there. But hey, the result was the same. And the investigation into the Police Department was as predictable.

The police had a pattern of unconstitutional stops, searches, and arrests. Each one of those was a straw on a camels back. Small and insignificant in the grand scheme, and taken with the other small and insignificant events, eventually certain to overwhelm the ability to resist.


Do I support Riots? Absolutely not. Do I understand why they are angry? I probably can not truly imagine the rage. But I do understand that the rage exists, and why. Now, Trump and Sessions shut down those DOJ department wide investigations. So now nobody is examining the policies and practices of the Police Departments. And that is always a bad thing. Because the oath Trump took was the same one every Federal Official took. To support and defend the Constitution. That means defending the rights contained within.

We have to be determined to defend those rights, of every citizen, every single time.
You are sounding more and more like a leftist.

There is zero excuse for the riots, and the riots alone were worse than police brutality for decades.

If you want to see the cops actually do something wrong, see how they arrested the business owner who defended his business against the savages. See how they arrest Americans for covid stupidity. A true wrong.
I wrote that I did not agree with the riots, but I understood the Underlying cause for the anger.

Odd isn’t it, that you are intent to label me? Ok. Here is the labels for you.

By Rural Georgia Standards I am reasonably Liberal. I am a member of the ACLU, NRA, and USCCA. I believe that we are duty bound to defend the rights contained within the Constitution. All the rights. Not just the second, or the first, or the fifth. All of them.

By San Francisco, or New York Standards, I am a rabid right wing radical gun nut bible thumping redneck asshole. Because I believe in God, and I believe that we all have the right to keep and bear arms. I don’t fly the American Flag, and haven’t in many years. I am ashamed of what my Country has become. The Department of Homeland Insecurity. The National Security Letters, and the violations of the Constitution that happen to prevent “IT” from ever happening again. That it has never worked, doesn’t matter to the supporters of the excesses. We must make the sacrifice if it means we can prevent even one terrorist attack.

I believe that if the Police or Prosecutors conduct misconduct, withhold evidence, lie, plant evidence, and any of the routine things, that we have to drop the charges. I believe that the Constitution intends us to make it hard to convict someone, and those restrictions are intended to prevent an innocent from going to prison. I agree wholeheartedly with the statement of Justice Blackwell. It is better for a thousand guilty men to go free, than one innocent man go to prison.

I believe you have a right to defend yourself. I also believe society has a duty to review the circumstances of that defense to insure it was justified. I do not care what color the people are, they have a right to self defense.

I believe the Civil War is nothing of the sort. A civil war is where two factions are fighting for control of the Government. The Southern States wanted to leave the Union, not control it.

I believe it is stupid and self destructive to hate. History has shown that when you hate, you become the mirror image of the thing you hate. Hitler hated the Jews and Soviets. So he embraced Fascism, which was bereft of a dimes worth of difference from the Soviets. The same secret police, the same rampant authoritarian nonsense. The same brutality. The same disregard for life. I believe there were no good guys on the Eastern Front, and that the T-34 was hands down the best tank of the entire war.
No one cares what you believe. However, we can't miss what you are doing - playing on the enemy lines. You should try hating the enemy instead of loving and you wouldn't be making such a stupid mistake. Reasonable people hate their enemies and evil.

There is no reason at all for you to defend them. No virtue points will be awarded, they know and hate their enemies - which is all Americans yourself included.
Reasonable people hate? Great. In the 1980’s, we were taught that we were the superior political system. One of those reasons given was the rights, and the constitution. Soviet Citizens had no such rights, and the secret police could break whatever rules existed, for the good of the State. We were taught that our system with its flaws was superior, because it allowed individual freedoms, and competition spurred advancement.

Today, our Secret Police are able to break the rules, and nobody minds because of Terrorism. Or something. The rights we so valiantly defended in the 1980’s, and 1990’s, were swept away in 2002. So what do I hate?

Do I hate the enemy I joined the Army and trained to defeat to defend the Constitution? Do I hate their abuses of the people? Their corrupt and vile system that trampled the rights of their own citizens? If so, who is the enemy? Because that would mean I would have to hate my own country, rather than be disappointed and even a little ashamed. I can’t very well hate the country I swore an oath to defend.

Hate is a weapon for your enemy. It poisons your soul. But let’s go to my Catholic Upbringing. I was taught that hate was a sin. I could defeat opponents without hating them. Playing hard in sports did not mean hating the opponent. Respect them, learn from them, learn about them, and defeat them. But Hate clouds your judgement, and you commit the sin. St. Augustine is famous for the quote of Hate the sin, and love the sinner. How could you not love another of God’s creations? Even while you must kill him in a war, and I did, I did not hate.

I joined the Army. I joined the Airborne, and went to war with the 82nd Airborne. I fought fellow soldiers in bar fights. But I never hated any of them. I fought Iraq and lost friends from our sister unit, the 37th Engineers. I did not hate the Iraqi’s. I believed they must be stopped, and pushed out of Kuwait. I did not believe we should eliminate all of them. When we took prisoners, I insured that the prisoners were treated in accordance with the laws of war.

Martial Arts teach us that hate and anger are weapons for your enemy. If hating my enemy makes the enemy stronger, why would I do so? The basic premise of Sun Tzu is to never do what your enemy wants. So if by hating him I make him stronger, and myself weaker, and it is what my enemy wants, why would I do it?

It is better to use determination, than hate. Even when you must kill your enemy, have no hate in your heart. Resolve is stronger, than hate, and lasts longer.

I don’t hate the North for the Civil war, and I don’t hate the South. I don’t hate the idiot racists. I have disdain for them, and utterly reject their flawed philosophy, but I don’t hate them. Black or whatever, brown or blue. It doesn’t matter. Hate makes you stupid, and stupid people are defeated easily.
There is far more racism and hate in the black community than the white.

Anyhow, hate is a relative term as in different people have different concepts of it.

The term like 'racism' is so misused I am reluctant to even talk about it.
Basically it is just a human emotion...not some demon like entity which you portend to make it into.

Like any human emotion it can be used for good or bad....it all comes down to what you hate.

Racism is a bias. A predisposition to believe a stereotype. Hate is an irrational emotion based upon those biased feelings.

Blacks who believe that all Whites are out to get them are wrong. Just as the Whites who claim Blacks are criminal and violent as a people. Both feel their bias is justified. Both are wrong.

I do not hate either Group. I feel disgust. I feel resolve not to fall into the easy hatreds. I feel determined to do the right thing.

I eschew the entire premise that one group of people is inherently evil. They may be wrong. But they are not evil.
You don’t hate black people rushing into a police precinct to burn it down looting stores? I hate to see who you do like
I think it was wrong. I think it was criminal. I think it was stupid. I do not hate those who did it.
When do you hate them! The 2nd building they loot or the tenth? Or just hug them lol
Who do I need to hate someone to stop them? We, and I mean my company. We killed more than five hundred people. I did not hate them. I still do not.

Hate is not necessary to stop someone. I can shoot someone invading my house today without hating them. In fact. Hate would cloud my judgement. I might miss a second person if I am not thinking. And I could end up dead.

Hating someone is exactly the opposite of the lessons that Jesus taught. The Serbs and Croats hated each other for centuries. It got more people dead for things that happened generations ago. Muslims and Jews hate. And they are still fighting.

Hate is one of those emotions you should try to resist and control. It does not make you stronger or smarter. It makes you weaker. You embrace evil yourself to justify your hate.

I do not hate anyone. I would not give them that kind of power over me.
It is truly astounding to watch you virtue signal about how you don't hate anyone, and how hating someone means giving them power over you. Truly pathetic...

This is exactly what the enemies of the people want to hear. Them being allowed to grow in power, while supposedly "good" people like yourself do nothing. Doing something about their evil would mean giving power to them after all.

That is if anyone accepts that you truly are as confused as you claim, and not simply a other disciple of the evil master, devoted to diversion.
The crews who dropped bombs on Japan were relieved that the Atomic Bomb had been dropped. They hated dropping the firebombs on Tokyo and the other cities. So they hated what they were doing more than the enemy? Yet we still won. They hated the smell of roasting burning flesh. The planes smelled of it even when they returned to base hours later.

Patton hated the Soviets so much he wanted to arm the Fascists to turn them East and go and get the Soviets. How did he defeat the Nazi’s if he hated the Soviets more?

A professional boxer does not hate his opponent. He wants to win, but he has resolve, determination, and desire. He fights hard, and risks brain injuries to win, and even death, but is not stupid enough to hate.

If hate is a good emotion, are there any bad ones? How about lust? Lusting after your neighbors wife or property is a sin isn’t it? Well God gave us those emotions they must be good. Adultery is from lust, and Adultery is a sin. But God gave us those emotions, they must be good.

Idiocy. Absolute idiocy. Every lesson from the Bible says not to do it. Every lesson from history shows that when you hate, you become the mirror of what you hate. So you become the thing you hate.

So the Left hates Conservatives. Run on issues, and populist ideals, and you’ll win generally speaking. Not every election, but enough to maintain control, if history is any indicator. When you embrace the hate, you drive supporters away.

Because the “enemy” does something, does not mean I have to. Because the Japanese tortured POW’s does not mean I need to. In fact, I would be wiser, much much wiser, not to. History, again, clearly shows that the most effective interrogation technique is not torture, anger, hatred. It is compassion, understanding, and patience. Atrocities do not dissuade the enemy, it gives them more reason to hate. Your hate, fuels their hate, and vice versa.

The worst thing to do to a Terrorist, is the one thing your Hatred won’t allow you to even consider. It is a trial, with all the rights, and bells and whistles intact. This allows you to show them to be nothing but common criminals. No more important than any run of the mill murderer.

When you torture them, to get information that is crap, you make yourself look weak. Stupid.
More nonsense....https://www.winonadailynews.com/news/opinion/columnists/other/glenn-garvin-ugly-truth-but-sometimes-torture-works/article_4d33c06e-b813-11e2-bcc9-001a4bcf887a.htmlGlenn Garvin: Ugly truth, but sometimes torture works
Torture is the worst method for gaining information. Seriously, the worst. You get far more information, from other means.


Now that is the result of the CIA’s own defense of their “enhanced interrogation” program. They did not get much information, and they got more information through other means, and it was better.

Now, you could argue that the CIA wasn’t torturing them enough. But let’s take the case of the RW’s Torture Champion. Former Congressman, Former Colonel in the Army. Alan West.

Alan West had his soldiers “detain” through a beating, a suspect. Then he decided the suspect was not afraid of the mean old Soldiers. So he fired his weapon next to the ear of the suspect. The suspect gave up names and locations. Nothing was found. No plans, no weapons, nothing. Later the Suspect said he made it up because he was afraid.

He made it up. A very common result in Torture. It is what our own troops did in Vietnam. Ted Williams the noted Baseball player was the commander of pretty much every unit. At least that was the name the guys gave up most often.

Sure, some real information made it out, but for the most part, they gave up garbage. Now, are Americans significantly different than the Terrorists? I mean, are our troops somehow motivated to withstand torture longer?
The expertise of the interrogators vary considerably some are more effective using one method some are more effective using others.

Just because one guy got bad info from using waterboarding or whatever does not mean that another interrogator will not be able to get good info.

I think the interrogation of prisoners should be left to those on the scene....they should not be under some pc b.s. that would hamper their best efforts to extract intelligence.

The real key is that we need the best interrogators with the freedom to do what they think is required.

Some indiot bureaucrat back in Washington should have no say over how prisoners are interrogated.

Anyhow on to something else.............I remember years ago sitting in a C 119 on a runway in Ft. Benning waiting for the plane to take off and wondering why in the hell anyone would want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane. hehheh

Thanks for your service but it always sad to see a fellow vet(particuarly an airborne one) get so confused about what is happening in America today.
There is no such thing as a "perfectly good airplane"; mechanical devices sometimes fail.
What's crazy, is getting on a plane without a parachute..... what are you gonna do if something goes wrong?

At least I can get off the damn bird.
You airborne guys are all alike, my son included. I was on a puddle jumper sandwiched between the hull and a Humvee flying in to Kiztigen German from Belgium, that was probably going to crash because they blew the landing gear on take off. I was gonna ride that puppy to the ground, having no plans to get out and walk.
 

LuckyDuck

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Are we a nation of law and order or a nation of mob rule?

The msm has been striving for a long time to stir up a minority insurrection and they may now have suceeded...at least in Minneapolis and it may spread nation wide.


You support the police killing that hand cuffed guy? The video I saw first on the internet was taken by a bystander with a cellphone, not a news van. You sure it was the news media that sparked this and not some rogue cops?
An intelligent response to what the community saw, was for:
1. A peaceful demonstration.
2. Demand that the District Attorney review the case.
The District Attorney would "impartially" investigate and bring it before a Grand Jury, if needed.
The low IQ response by a community:
1. "Hey, let's burn things that have nothing to do with the arrest."
2. "Hey, let's steal things, because it's fun and has nothing to do with the arrest."
3. "Hey, let's destroy our own communities."
4. "Hey, let's be idiots, because it's fun."
I have heard that the Minnesota National Guard has been called in. If true, the National Guard should just go in shooting, to make a point as to who is actually in charge. Once the smoke clears and the bodies are piled up, see if the survivors are smiling.
The district attorney shot his mouth off and said there may be evidence that no crime was committed by the police.

The foolish man demonstrated the justice system is corrupt.
"May be" no evidence of a crime being committed is not the same as "no evidence of a crime being committed." This is true of any case brought before District Attorneys across the US. It has to be carefully researched via witnesses and bodycams of the officers, along with any additional video evidence that can be provided. Rioters and looters won't be the determining factor in what happens with the police officer involved. The looters are merely more crap that needs to be dealt with, with violence if necessary.
The District Attorney has inflamed the situation.

It appears that the "establishment" will pretend negligence and incompetence in the trial to defeat and deny justice.
Time will tell. We shall see.
 

TheGreenHornet

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The police need to replace the rubber bullets with Metallic ones
I do not know the facts in this case and since we cannot believe the media(especially in regards to racial matters) I will wait and see in regards to commenting on whether or not the police are guilty of misbehavior as in the guys death could have been due to natural causes as in a heart attack due to the stress of the event which he may have caused himself.

But a certain minority always wants to use these rare cases where it appears one of their members may have been mistreated to cause havoc in their city and or neighborhoods.....this should not be tolerated.

Blacks have access to the judicial system and that is where they should take their grievances...yet what we see time and again is for them to use violence or the threat of violence to get their way.

They know full well that politicians will cave in to them ...even to the point of indicting and arresting those who may be completely innocent and in some cases obviously so....like in the zimmerman case and now in the infamous Jawja jogga case...but the politicians are not interested in truth or justice...they only want to protect their careers and avoid being labeled racist...thus the blacks are able to extort or more like blackmail liberal politicians to give in to them.
I saw video where two cops had him walking around in hand cuffed with his hands behind his back and started to sit him down leaning against the wall a a building prior to walking him some more, without him struggling. Of course everybody has seen the video on the guy held down with a knee on the side of his neck and heard him pleading that he couldn't breath before he passed out. Are you saying one of the two videos made on somebody's home computer and is fake? Which one?
What’s that have to do with looting?
Oh, you probably skipped the OP's post at beginning of thread. He thinks the riots and looting is caused by the mainstream media. I think the riots and looting was sparked by the cops killing that guy while multiple people filmed it with their cellphones. Protests that turn into angry mobs is about mob psychology which to me is like a cattle herd that gets spooked and stampedes. You got a different theory? The OP thinks the cops are cowards, which I doubt. So he and I are not agreeing about a lot tonight. Are you a mainstream media started it guy, a cops are cowards guy, or somebody who thinks the cops should not have killed that handcuffed guy?
The cops aren't cowards. They are prohibited from fighting back so they may as well leave. We don't pay them to sit around until they get torn apart by sub human savages.

I have had the misfortune to have been in more than one riot. The Watts Riots, the Rodney King Riot and the smaller Staples Riot. The entire point of the riot is the looting and arson.
Don't worry. I was just quoting the OP not taking his side. For protection of human life when the rioters are not attacking people or firing weapons, standing back is probably the best method. Tactics have changed over the years since the 60s. Some people have not noticed. Were you a newsy or Law Enforcement? I certainly can't picture you breaking windows and stealing TVs.
Just a long time Southern California resident and criminal defense lawyer.

In Ohio the entire government abandoned the state house. Did you see that? I'm afraid democrats are entering the final act.
interesting. A little quieter over here in Tennessee.
No I did not see that til you mentioned. You think the whole situation will calm any now that at least the Officer holding him down has been taken into custody? 50/50? or think into the weekend to Sunday?
It has now been revealed the Negro died of natural causes and the fact he got over stressed by arguing with the police and resisting arrest.

in a nutshell he caused his own death....like I suggested previously.
The authorities do not agree. they seem to think the former officer killed him.

A white former Minneapolis police officer was charged with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter on Friday after a shocking video of him kneeling for nearly nine minutes on the neck of a black man set off a wave of protests across the country.
The former officer, Derek Chauvin, 44, was taken into custody on charges that carry a combined maximum 35-year sentence. Mr. Chauvin kept his knee planted even as the man, George Floyd, told all four officers involved in his arrest that he could not breathe. At times, Mr. Floyd begged “please” and cried out “mama,” according to a statement of probable cause released by prosecutors.
“The defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total,” the court document said. “Two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive.”
It is now known he died of natural causes....he was in very bad health ...heart problems etc.
Maybe you should contact him to take his case.
The case should be dismissed now that that the autopsy reveals he died of natural causes.
No. Clearly the officer has committed a manslaughter. His acts were the proximate cause of the man's death.

Who would have suspected that these black men were so fragile?
Not clear at all...…..a jury will make that determination. The central question being now that the autopsy reveals the black was not choked to death will be did the police perform the arrest with any illegal procedures...since the choke hold has been nullified by the autopsy....I dont know of any other move that has been ruled illegal other than the choke hold....I do not see any excessive force at all.

The knee on the guys neck would not be ruled ilegal since it did not interfere with his brething.

Now some misinfomed types will claim it was an illegal arrest....how so? He was comitting a crime....became angry, refused to follow police orders and they had to wrestle him to the ground as he was resisting arrest.....he died from natural causes as a result of getting stressed out which he provoked himself.

Unless the jury is all black I do not see the office being convicted as he should not be...he did nothing illegal.
 

SavannahMann

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The police need to replace the rubber bullets with Metallic ones
I do not know the facts in this case and since we cannot believe the media(especially in regards to racial matters) I will wait and see in regards to commenting on whether or not the police are guilty of misbehavior as in the guys death could have been due to natural causes as in a heart attack due to the stress of the event which he may have caused himself.

But a certain minority always wants to use these rare cases where it appears one of their members may have been mistreated to cause havoc in their city and or neighborhoods.....this should not be tolerated.

Blacks have access to the judicial system and that is where they should take their grievances...yet what we see time and again is for them to use violence or the threat of violence to get their way.

They know full well that politicians will cave in to them ...even to the point of indicting and arresting those who may be completely innocent and in some cases obviously so....like in the zimmerman case and now in the infamous Jawja jogga case...but the politicians are not interested in truth or justice...they only want to protect their careers and avoid being labeled racist...thus the blacks are able to extort or more like blackmail liberal politicians to give in to them.
I saw video where two cops had him walking around in hand cuffed with his hands behind his back and started to sit him down leaning against the wall a a building prior to walking him some more, without him struggling. Of course everybody has seen the video on the guy held down with a knee on the side of his neck and heard him pleading that he couldn't breath before he passed out. Are you saying one of the two videos made on somebody's home computer and is fake? Which one?
What’s that have to do with looting?
Oh, you probably skipped the OP's post at beginning of thread. He thinks the riots and looting is caused by the mainstream media. I think the riots and looting was sparked by the cops killing that guy while multiple people filmed it with their cellphones. Protests that turn into angry mobs is about mob psychology which to me is like a cattle herd that gets spooked and stampedes. You got a different theory? The OP thinks the cops are cowards, which I doubt. So he and I are not agreeing about a lot tonight. Are you a mainstream media started it guy, a cops are cowards guy, or somebody who thinks the cops should not have killed that handcuffed guy?
It doesn’t take much for the BLM crowd to start a riot. Plenty of people get murdered in this country every day. But these losers are just waiting for a “white kills black” on camera to give themselves an excuse to riot and make the news. I guess they think America will finally “listen to them” in their pleas for “social justice”. Thing is, no one is buying their shit. America keeps rejecting their racist bullshit, and they are losing their minds over it.
Have you ever heard the old saying. The straw that broke the camels back? It is a curious truth. A straw is a very light item. It might weigh an ounce. If that. Probably less.

Yet the truth is that at some point, that straw exceeds the maximum capacity of something, like a camels back.

But what it implies is a lot of things were put on there first. A lot of straws. My father used to ask me what I would rather be crushed by. A ton of feathers, or a ton of lead? I would answer feathers because they were lighter and softer. The truth is as I grew and matured I figured out that what the material was did not matter. It was the ton that was the important part of the discussion. A ton of feathers would crush me as effectively as the lead would.

So let’s talk about those straws. Thousands of them piled up on the Camels back. Bullshit traffic stops to check for drugs. Do you own this car, and a thousand other nonsense interactions. Arrests for questionable reasons, and planted evidence. And finally the last straw falls, and it is imperfect. But it is the last straw. It is the one that will tip it over to disaster, crushing the Camel.

You deride the camel for surrendering to his one straw, but you don’t give it any credit for holding up under all the others.

You like to bring up Ferguson as an example. Well we know that Ferguson was violating the civil rights of the citizens. We know that Ferguson police were dumping bullshit charges on people. Including my personal favorite, charging a man they had beaten to a pulp for destruction of public property. The specifics? He bled on the police during the altercation, and ruined their uniforms. Seriously. He wasn’t the guy they were looking for, he wasn’t the man with a warrant. He had committed no crime. The charges were resisting arrest, and destruction of public property.

The DOJ using the same investigation standards started long before and carried out during the entire administration of W. Bush, found that Ferguson was violating the Constitution in many areas.

Yes, Mike Brown was an imperfect straw, but there were a lot of straws on that camel that were less imperfect. This situation is another imperfect straw, but there are a lot of straws dumped on the camel every day.
All you have is heresay.....the same thing that motivates any mob or lynching party.....yet when blacks do it....a different standard is applied .aika oh dey entitled.
No, we have the results of the investigation into the Ferguson Police Department which I highlighted.


Now, if it was your family, and friends, who were the victims of unconstitutional policing. Even if they were not arrested, wouldn’t you get angry? Wouldn’t that anger simmer?

The problem is that we view such things as individual incidents. Oh a cop just went a little too far. Oh this cop made a bad choice. We don’t think of the cumulative effect of it. Like Chinese Water Torture, a tiny thing adds up after time and repetition.

None of this is new, it is all old news. Baltimore, the Freddy Gray. No video there. But hey, the result was the same. And the investigation into the Police Department was as predictable.

The police had a pattern of unconstitutional stops, searches, and arrests. Each one of those was a straw on a camels back. Small and insignificant in the grand scheme, and taken with the other small and insignificant events, eventually certain to overwhelm the ability to resist.


Do I support Riots? Absolutely not. Do I understand why they are angry? I probably can not truly imagine the rage. But I do understand that the rage exists, and why. Now, Trump and Sessions shut down those DOJ department wide investigations. So now nobody is examining the policies and practices of the Police Departments. And that is always a bad thing. Because the oath Trump took was the same one every Federal Official took. To support and defend the Constitution. That means defending the rights contained within.

We have to be determined to defend those rights, of every citizen, every single time.
You are sounding more and more like a leftist.

There is zero excuse for the riots, and the riots alone were worse than police brutality for decades.

If you want to see the cops actually do something wrong, see how they arrested the business owner who defended his business against the savages. See how they arrest Americans for covid stupidity. A true wrong.
I wrote that I did not agree with the riots, but I understood the Underlying cause for the anger.

Odd isn’t it, that you are intent to label me? Ok. Here is the labels for you.

By Rural Georgia Standards I am reasonably Liberal. I am a member of the ACLU, NRA, and USCCA. I believe that we are duty bound to defend the rights contained within the Constitution. All the rights. Not just the second, or the first, or the fifth. All of them.

By San Francisco, or New York Standards, I am a rabid right wing radical gun nut bible thumping redneck asshole. Because I believe in God, and I believe that we all have the right to keep and bear arms. I don’t fly the American Flag, and haven’t in many years. I am ashamed of what my Country has become. The Department of Homeland Insecurity. The National Security Letters, and the violations of the Constitution that happen to prevent “IT” from ever happening again. That it has never worked, doesn’t matter to the supporters of the excesses. We must make the sacrifice if it means we can prevent even one terrorist attack.

I believe that if the Police or Prosecutors conduct misconduct, withhold evidence, lie, plant evidence, and any of the routine things, that we have to drop the charges. I believe that the Constitution intends us to make it hard to convict someone, and those restrictions are intended to prevent an innocent from going to prison. I agree wholeheartedly with the statement of Justice Blackwell. It is better for a thousand guilty men to go free, than one innocent man go to prison.

I believe you have a right to defend yourself. I also believe society has a duty to review the circumstances of that defense to insure it was justified. I do not care what color the people are, they have a right to self defense.

I believe the Civil War is nothing of the sort. A civil war is where two factions are fighting for control of the Government. The Southern States wanted to leave the Union, not control it.

I believe it is stupid and self destructive to hate. History has shown that when you hate, you become the mirror image of the thing you hate. Hitler hated the Jews and Soviets. So he embraced Fascism, which was bereft of a dimes worth of difference from the Soviets. The same secret police, the same rampant authoritarian nonsense. The same brutality. The same disregard for life. I believe there were no good guys on the Eastern Front, and that the T-34 was hands down the best tank of the entire war.
No one cares what you believe. However, we can't miss what you are doing - playing on the enemy lines. You should try hating the enemy instead of loving and you wouldn't be making such a stupid mistake. Reasonable people hate their enemies and evil.

There is no reason at all for you to defend them. No virtue points will be awarded, they know and hate their enemies - which is all Americans yourself included.
Reasonable people hate? Great. In the 1980’s, we were taught that we were the superior political system. One of those reasons given was the rights, and the constitution. Soviet Citizens had no such rights, and the secret police could break whatever rules existed, for the good of the State. We were taught that our system with its flaws was superior, because it allowed individual freedoms, and competition spurred advancement.

Today, our Secret Police are able to break the rules, and nobody minds because of Terrorism. Or something. The rights we so valiantly defended in the 1980’s, and 1990’s, were swept away in 2002. So what do I hate?

Do I hate the enemy I joined the Army and trained to defeat to defend the Constitution? Do I hate their abuses of the people? Their corrupt and vile system that trampled the rights of their own citizens? If so, who is the enemy? Because that would mean I would have to hate my own country, rather than be disappointed and even a little ashamed. I can’t very well hate the country I swore an oath to defend.

Hate is a weapon for your enemy. It poisons your soul. But let’s go to my Catholic Upbringing. I was taught that hate was a sin. I could defeat opponents without hating them. Playing hard in sports did not mean hating the opponent. Respect them, learn from them, learn about them, and defeat them. But Hate clouds your judgement, and you commit the sin. St. Augustine is famous for the quote of Hate the sin, and love the sinner. How could you not love another of God’s creations? Even while you must kill him in a war, and I did, I did not hate.

I joined the Army. I joined the Airborne, and went to war with the 82nd Airborne. I fought fellow soldiers in bar fights. But I never hated any of them. I fought Iraq and lost friends from our sister unit, the 37th Engineers. I did not hate the Iraqi’s. I believed they must be stopped, and pushed out of Kuwait. I did not believe we should eliminate all of them. When we took prisoners, I insured that the prisoners were treated in accordance with the laws of war.

Martial Arts teach us that hate and anger are weapons for your enemy. If hating my enemy makes the enemy stronger, why would I do so? The basic premise of Sun Tzu is to never do what your enemy wants. So if by hating him I make him stronger, and myself weaker, and it is what my enemy wants, why would I do it?

It is better to use determination, than hate. Even when you must kill your enemy, have no hate in your heart. Resolve is stronger, than hate, and lasts longer.

I don’t hate the North for the Civil war, and I don’t hate the South. I don’t hate the idiot racists. I have disdain for them, and utterly reject their flawed philosophy, but I don’t hate them. Black or whatever, brown or blue. It doesn’t matter. Hate makes you stupid, and stupid people are defeated easily.
There is far more racism and hate in the black community than the white.

Anyhow, hate is a relative term as in different people have different concepts of it.

The term like 'racism' is so misused I am reluctant to even talk about it.
Basically it is just a human emotion...not some demon like entity which you portend to make it into.

Like any human emotion it can be used for good or bad....it all comes down to what you hate.

Racism is a bias. A predisposition to believe a stereotype. Hate is an irrational emotion based upon those biased feelings.

Blacks who believe that all Whites are out to get them are wrong. Just as the Whites who claim Blacks are criminal and violent as a people. Both feel their bias is justified. Both are wrong.

I do not hate either Group. I feel disgust. I feel resolve not to fall into the easy hatreds. I feel determined to do the right thing.

I eschew the entire premise that one group of people is inherently evil. They may be wrong. But they are not evil.
You don’t hate black people rushing into a police precinct to burn it down looting stores? I hate to see who you do like
I think it was wrong. I think it was criminal. I think it was stupid. I do not hate those who did it.
When do you hate them! The 2nd building they loot or the tenth? Or just hug them lol
Who do I need to hate someone to stop them? We, and I mean my company. We killed more than five hundred people. I did not hate them. I still do not.

Hate is not necessary to stop someone. I can shoot someone invading my house today without hating them. In fact. Hate would cloud my judgement. I might miss a second person if I am not thinking. And I could end up dead.

Hating someone is exactly the opposite of the lessons that Jesus taught. The Serbs and Croats hated each other for centuries. It got more people dead for things that happened generations ago. Muslims and Jews hate. And they are still fighting.

Hate is one of those emotions you should try to resist and control. It does not make you stronger or smarter. It makes you weaker. You embrace evil yourself to justify your hate.

I do not hate anyone. I would not give them that kind of power over me.
It is truly astounding to watch you virtue signal about how you don't hate anyone, and how hating someone means giving them power over you. Truly pathetic...

This is exactly what the enemies of the people want to hear. Them being allowed to grow in power, while supposedly "good" people like yourself do nothing. Doing something about their evil would mean giving power to them after all.

That is if anyone accepts that you truly are as confused as you claim, and not simply a other disciple of the evil master, devoted to diversion.
The crews who dropped bombs on Japan were relieved that the Atomic Bomb had been dropped. They hated dropping the firebombs on Tokyo and the other cities. So they hated what they were doing more than the enemy? Yet we still won. They hated the smell of roasting burning flesh. The planes smelled of it even when they returned to base hours later.

Patton hated the Soviets so much he wanted to arm the Fascists to turn them East and go and get the Soviets. How did he defeat the Nazi’s if he hated the Soviets more?

A professional boxer does not hate his opponent. He wants to win, but he has resolve, determination, and desire. He fights hard, and risks brain injuries to win, and even death, but is not stupid enough to hate.

If hate is a good emotion, are there any bad ones? How about lust? Lusting after your neighbors wife or property is a sin isn’t it? Well God gave us those emotions they must be good. Adultery is from lust, and Adultery is a sin. But God gave us those emotions, they must be good.

Idiocy. Absolute idiocy. Every lesson from the Bible says not to do it. Every lesson from history shows that when you hate, you become the mirror of what you hate. So you become the thing you hate.

So the Left hates Conservatives. Run on issues, and populist ideals, and you’ll win generally speaking. Not every election, but enough to maintain control, if history is any indicator. When you embrace the hate, you drive supporters away.

Because the “enemy” does something, does not mean I have to. Because the Japanese tortured POW’s does not mean I need to. In fact, I would be wiser, much much wiser, not to. History, again, clearly shows that the most effective interrogation technique is not torture, anger, hatred. It is compassion, understanding, and patience. Atrocities do not dissuade the enemy, it gives them more reason to hate. Your hate, fuels their hate, and vice versa.

The worst thing to do to a Terrorist, is the one thing your Hatred won’t allow you to even consider. It is a trial, with all the rights, and bells and whistles intact. This allows you to show them to be nothing but common criminals. No more important than any run of the mill murderer.

When you torture them, to get information that is crap, you make yourself look weak. Stupid.
More nonsense....https://www.winonadailynews.com/news/opinion/columnists/other/glenn-garvin-ugly-truth-but-sometimes-torture-works/article_4d33c06e-b813-11e2-bcc9-001a4bcf887a.htmlGlenn Garvin: Ugly truth, but sometimes torture works
Torture is the worst method for gaining information. Seriously, the worst. You get far more information, from other means.


Now that is the result of the CIA’s own defense of their “enhanced interrogation” program. They did not get much information, and they got more information through other means, and it was better.

Now, you could argue that the CIA wasn’t torturing them enough. But let’s take the case of the RW’s Torture Champion. Former Congressman, Former Colonel in the Army. Alan West.

Alan West had his soldiers “detain” through a beating, a suspect. Then he decided the suspect was not afraid of the mean old Soldiers. So he fired his weapon next to the ear of the suspect. The suspect gave up names and locations. Nothing was found. No plans, no weapons, nothing. Later the Suspect said he made it up because he was afraid.

He made it up. A very common result in Torture. It is what our own troops did in Vietnam. Ted Williams the noted Baseball player was the commander of pretty much every unit. At least that was the name the guys gave up most often.

Sure, some real information made it out, but for the most part, they gave up garbage. Now, are Americans significantly different than the Terrorists? I mean, are our troops somehow motivated to withstand torture longer?
The expertise of the interrogators vary considerably some are more effective using one method some are more effective using others.

Just because one guy got bad info from using waterboarding or whatever does not mean that another interrogator will not be able to get good info.

I think the interrogation of prisoners should be left to those on the scene....they should not be under some pc b.s. that would hamper their best efforts to extract intelligence.

The real key is that we need the best interrogators with the freedom to do what they think is required.

Some indiot bureaucrat back in Washington should have no say over how prisoners are interrogated.

Anyhow on to something else.............I remember years ago sitting in a C 119 on a runway in Ft. Benning waiting for the plane to take off and wondering why in the hell anyone would want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane. hehheh

Thanks for your service but it always sad to see a fellow vet(particuarly an airborne one) get so confused about what is happening in America today.
I have spent some time considering what you wrote. And the message you are communicating. First. The people in Washington are the Political Representatives of the people. They passed a law prohibiting Torture. The Government signed an international Treaty prohibiting Torture. The Senate ratified it.

So it is not some silly desk jockey who came up with this rule. It is the law.


Now. In Hollywood Torture works in seconds or a couple minutes at most. Gotta keep the plot moving. In reality you have to keep questioning the prisoner. You have to keep going over the information. Hours. And days later you might get to some good information.

What was the reason we needed torture during the debate while W was in office? The ticking time bomb scenario. So you have minutes or hours to stop a terrorist attack and the best idea you can come up with is a procedure that take hours or days or even longer to get good information on.

My Dad used to tell me about how angry the cops were when the Supreme Court ruled a coerced confession was inadmissible. In other words. You could not beat the confession out of the suspect. The cops argued that they would never be able to solve another crime without being able to motivate someone.

What they refused to acknowledge was that they hadn’t solved as many as they thought. Yes. They got a confession. But it is anybody’s guess if the guy confessing was telling the truth. I am sure some guilty men went free because an innocent confessed to stop the beatings.

So it is not viable in the situation the proponents claim it is needed for. It is unreliable to say the least according to the people who use it. And it is illegal.

The latter by the way is why they called it Enhanced Interrogation.

Now let’s consider what else happens. First. Allies get cooler when the news breaks. And it is going to break. We actually give the recruiters aligned against us more ammunition to convince the fence sitters that we are evil. And that is where we are now.

A couple years ago I watched a documentary on an infantry unit in Afghanistan. The new unit rotated in. The new Captain went to meet with the villagers. The Captain wanted to talk about working together to stop the Taliban. The Village elders wanted to talk about their people who were killed in the fields two years before. The Captain said he wasn’t going to talk about it.

You could see where it was going after that. The unit was going to find no help or information from the villagers. From their point of view it didn’t matter. The Taliban would kill them. But so would the Americans.

Somebody did something years before and nobody had gotten over it. The guy who did it probably wasn’t even in the Army anymore. But it didn’t matter.

I am not. Repeat. I am not saying we should have fried the guy. I do not know what happened. I do know it was troubling to the villagers.

Now. The Flying Boxcar. That plane had been retired for fifteen years when I stood up and took my oath. I jumped out of C-130’s. C-141’s, and UH-1. Yeah. I had a Helicopter drop.
 

SavannahMann

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The police need to replace the rubber bullets with Metallic ones
I do not know the facts in this case and since we cannot believe the media(especially in regards to racial matters) I will wait and see in regards to commenting on whether or not the police are guilty of misbehavior as in the guys death could have been due to natural causes as in a heart attack due to the stress of the event which he may have caused himself.

But a certain minority always wants to use these rare cases where it appears one of their members may have been mistreated to cause havoc in their city and or neighborhoods.....this should not be tolerated.

Blacks have access to the judicial system and that is where they should take their grievances...yet what we see time and again is for them to use violence or the threat of violence to get their way.

They know full well that politicians will cave in to them ...even to the point of indicting and arresting those who may be completely innocent and in some cases obviously so....like in the zimmerman case and now in the infamous Jawja jogga case...but the politicians are not interested in truth or justice...they only want to protect their careers and avoid being labeled racist...thus the blacks are able to extort or more like blackmail liberal politicians to give in to them.
I saw video where two cops had him walking around in hand cuffed with his hands behind his back and started to sit him down leaning against the wall a a building prior to walking him some more, without him struggling. Of course everybody has seen the video on the guy held down with a knee on the side of his neck and heard him pleading that he couldn't breath before he passed out. Are you saying one of the two videos made on somebody's home computer and is fake? Which one?
What’s that have to do with looting?
Oh, you probably skipped the OP's post at beginning of thread. He thinks the riots and looting is caused by the mainstream media. I think the riots and looting was sparked by the cops killing that guy while multiple people filmed it with their cellphones. Protests that turn into angry mobs is about mob psychology which to me is like a cattle herd that gets spooked and stampedes. You got a different theory? The OP thinks the cops are cowards, which I doubt. So he and I are not agreeing about a lot tonight. Are you a mainstream media started it guy, a cops are cowards guy, or somebody who thinks the cops should not have killed that handcuffed guy?
The cops aren't cowards. They are prohibited from fighting back so they may as well leave. We don't pay them to sit around until they get torn apart by sub human savages.

I have had the misfortune to have been in more than one riot. The Watts Riots, the Rodney King Riot and the smaller Staples Riot. The entire point of the riot is the looting and arson.
Don't worry. I was just quoting the OP not taking his side. For protection of human life when the rioters are not attacking people or firing weapons, standing back is probably the best method. Tactics have changed over the years since the 60s. Some people have not noticed. Were you a newsy or Law Enforcement? I certainly can't picture you breaking windows and stealing TVs.
Just a long time Southern California resident and criminal defense lawyer.

In Ohio the entire government abandoned the state house. Did you see that? I'm afraid democrats are entering the final act.
interesting. A little quieter over here in Tennessee.
No I did not see that til you mentioned. You think the whole situation will calm any now that at least the Officer holding him down has been taken into custody? 50/50? or think into the weekend to Sunday?
It has now been revealed the Negro died of natural causes and the fact he got over stressed by arguing with the police and resisting arrest.

in a nutshell he caused his own death....like I suggested previously.
The authorities do not agree. they seem to think the former officer killed him.

A white former Minneapolis police officer was charged with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter on Friday after a shocking video of him kneeling for nearly nine minutes on the neck of a black man set off a wave of protests across the country.
The former officer, Derek Chauvin, 44, was taken into custody on charges that carry a combined maximum 35-year sentence. Mr. Chauvin kept his knee planted even as the man, George Floyd, told all four officers involved in his arrest that he could not breathe. At times, Mr. Floyd begged “please” and cried out “mama,” according to a statement of probable cause released by prosecutors.
“The defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total,” the court document said. “Two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive.”
It is now known he died of natural causes....he was in very bad health ...heart problems etc.
Maybe you should contact him to take his case.
The case should be dismissed now that that the autopsy reveals he died of natural causes.
No. Clearly the officer has committed a manslaughter. His acts were the proximate cause of the man's death.

Who would have suspected that these black men were so fragile?
Not clear at all...…..a jury will make that determination. The central question being now that the autopsy reveals the black was not choked to death will be did the police perform the arrest with any illegal procedures...since the choke hold has been nullified by the autopsy....I dont know of any other move that has been ruled illegal other than the choke hold....I do not see any excessive force at all.

The knee on the guys neck would not be ruled ilegal since it did not interfere with his brething.

Now some misinfomed types will claim it was an illegal arrest....how so? He was comitting a crime....became angry, refused to follow police orders and they had to wrestle him to the ground as he was resisting arrest.....he died from natural causes as a result of getting stressed out which he provoked himself.

Unless the jury is all black I do not see the office being convicted as he should not be...he did nothing illegal.
For two minutes after the cops could not get a pulse the idiot cop left his knee on the neck. He knew what he was doing. He wanted to make sure it was done.
 
OP
MacTheKnife

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The police need to replace the rubber bullets with Metallic ones
I do not know the facts in this case and since we cannot believe the media(especially in regards to racial matters) I will wait and see in regards to commenting on whether or not the police are guilty of misbehavior as in the guys death could have been due to natural causes as in a heart attack due to the stress of the event which he may have caused himself.

But a certain minority always wants to use these rare cases where it appears one of their members may have been mistreated to cause havoc in their city and or neighborhoods.....this should not be tolerated.

Blacks have access to the judicial system and that is where they should take their grievances...yet what we see time and again is for them to use violence or the threat of violence to get their way.

They know full well that politicians will cave in to them ...even to the point of indicting and arresting those who may be completely innocent and in some cases obviously so....like in the zimmerman case and now in the infamous Jawja jogga case...but the politicians are not interested in truth or justice...they only want to protect their careers and avoid being labeled racist...thus the blacks are able to extort or more like blackmail liberal politicians to give in to them.
I saw video where two cops had him walking around in hand cuffed with his hands behind his back and started to sit him down leaning against the wall a a building prior to walking him some more, without him struggling. Of course everybody has seen the video on the guy held down with a knee on the side of his neck and heard him pleading that he couldn't breath before he passed out. Are you saying one of the two videos made on somebody's home computer and is fake? Which one?
What’s that have to do with looting?
Oh, you probably skipped the OP's post at beginning of thread. He thinks the riots and looting is caused by the mainstream media. I think the riots and looting was sparked by the cops killing that guy while multiple people filmed it with their cellphones. Protests that turn into angry mobs is about mob psychology which to me is like a cattle herd that gets spooked and stampedes. You got a different theory? The OP thinks the cops are cowards, which I doubt. So he and I are not agreeing about a lot tonight. Are you a mainstream media started it guy, a cops are cowards guy, or somebody who thinks the cops should not have killed that handcuffed guy?
It doesn’t take much for the BLM crowd to start a riot. Plenty of people get murdered in this country every day. But these losers are just waiting for a “white kills black” on camera to give themselves an excuse to riot and make the news. I guess they think America will finally “listen to them” in their pleas for “social justice”. Thing is, no one is buying their shit. America keeps rejecting their racist bullshit, and they are losing their minds over it.
Have you ever heard the old saying. The straw that broke the camels back? It is a curious truth. A straw is a very light item. It might weigh an ounce. If that. Probably less.

Yet the truth is that at some point, that straw exceeds the maximum capacity of something, like a camels back.

But what it implies is a lot of things were put on there first. A lot of straws. My father used to ask me what I would rather be crushed by. A ton of feathers, or a ton of lead? I would answer feathers because they were lighter and softer. The truth is as I grew and matured I figured out that what the material was did not matter. It was the ton that was the important part of the discussion. A ton of feathers would crush me as effectively as the lead would.

So let’s talk about those straws. Thousands of them piled up on the Camels back. Bullshit traffic stops to check for drugs. Do you own this car, and a thousand other nonsense interactions. Arrests for questionable reasons, and planted evidence. And finally the last straw falls, and it is imperfect. But it is the last straw. It is the one that will tip it over to disaster, crushing the Camel.

You deride the camel for surrendering to his one straw, but you don’t give it any credit for holding up under all the others.

You like to bring up Ferguson as an example. Well we know that Ferguson was violating the civil rights of the citizens. We know that Ferguson police were dumping bullshit charges on people. Including my personal favorite, charging a man they had beaten to a pulp for destruction of public property. The specifics? He bled on the police during the altercation, and ruined their uniforms. Seriously. He wasn’t the guy they were looking for, he wasn’t the man with a warrant. He had committed no crime. The charges were resisting arrest, and destruction of public property.

The DOJ using the same investigation standards started long before and carried out during the entire administration of W. Bush, found that Ferguson was violating the Constitution in many areas.

Yes, Mike Brown was an imperfect straw, but there were a lot of straws on that camel that were less imperfect. This situation is another imperfect straw, but there are a lot of straws dumped on the camel every day.
All you have is heresay.....the same thing that motivates any mob or lynching party.....yet when blacks do it....a different standard is applied .aika oh dey entitled.
No, we have the results of the investigation into the Ferguson Police Department which I highlighted.


Now, if it was your family, and friends, who were the victims of unconstitutional policing. Even if they were not arrested, wouldn’t you get angry? Wouldn’t that anger simmer?

The problem is that we view such things as individual incidents. Oh a cop just went a little too far. Oh this cop made a bad choice. We don’t think of the cumulative effect of it. Like Chinese Water Torture, a tiny thing adds up after time and repetition.

None of this is new, it is all old news. Baltimore, the Freddy Gray. No video there. But hey, the result was the same. And the investigation into the Police Department was as predictable.

The police had a pattern of unconstitutional stops, searches, and arrests. Each one of those was a straw on a camels back. Small and insignificant in the grand scheme, and taken with the other small and insignificant events, eventually certain to overwhelm the ability to resist.


Do I support Riots? Absolutely not. Do I understand why they are angry? I probably can not truly imagine the rage. But I do understand that the rage exists, and why. Now, Trump and Sessions shut down those DOJ department wide investigations. So now nobody is examining the policies and practices of the Police Departments. And that is always a bad thing. Because the oath Trump took was the same one every Federal Official took. To support and defend the Constitution. That means defending the rights contained within.

We have to be determined to defend those rights, of every citizen, every single time.
You are sounding more and more like a leftist.

There is zero excuse for the riots, and the riots alone were worse than police brutality for decades.

If you want to see the cops actually do something wrong, see how they arrested the business owner who defended his business against the savages. See how they arrest Americans for covid stupidity. A true wrong.
I wrote that I did not agree with the riots, but I understood the Underlying cause for the anger.

Odd isn’t it, that you are intent to label me? Ok. Here is the labels for you.

By Rural Georgia Standards I am reasonably Liberal. I am a member of the ACLU, NRA, and USCCA. I believe that we are duty bound to defend the rights contained within the Constitution. All the rights. Not just the second, or the first, or the fifth. All of them.

By San Francisco, or New York Standards, I am a rabid right wing radical gun nut bible thumping redneck asshole. Because I believe in God, and I believe that we all have the right to keep and bear arms. I don’t fly the American Flag, and haven’t in many years. I am ashamed of what my Country has become. The Department of Homeland Insecurity. The National Security Letters, and the violations of the Constitution that happen to prevent “IT” from ever happening again. That it has never worked, doesn’t matter to the supporters of the excesses. We must make the sacrifice if it means we can prevent even one terrorist attack.

I believe that if the Police or Prosecutors conduct misconduct, withhold evidence, lie, plant evidence, and any of the routine things, that we have to drop the charges. I believe that the Constitution intends us to make it hard to convict someone, and those restrictions are intended to prevent an innocent from going to prison. I agree wholeheartedly with the statement of Justice Blackwell. It is better for a thousand guilty men to go free, than one innocent man go to prison.

I believe you have a right to defend yourself. I also believe society has a duty to review the circumstances of that defense to insure it was justified. I do not care what color the people are, they have a right to self defense.

I believe the Civil War is nothing of the sort. A civil war is where two factions are fighting for control of the Government. The Southern States wanted to leave the Union, not control it.

I believe it is stupid and self destructive to hate. History has shown that when you hate, you become the mirror image of the thing you hate. Hitler hated the Jews and Soviets. So he embraced Fascism, which was bereft of a dimes worth of difference from the Soviets. The same secret police, the same rampant authoritarian nonsense. The same brutality. The same disregard for life. I believe there were no good guys on the Eastern Front, and that the T-34 was hands down the best tank of the entire war.
No one cares what you believe. However, we can't miss what you are doing - playing on the enemy lines. You should try hating the enemy instead of loving and you wouldn't be making such a stupid mistake. Reasonable people hate their enemies and evil.

There is no reason at all for you to defend them. No virtue points will be awarded, they know and hate their enemies - which is all Americans yourself included.
Reasonable people hate? Great. In the 1980’s, we were taught that we were the superior political system. One of those reasons given was the rights, and the constitution. Soviet Citizens had no such rights, and the secret police could break whatever rules existed, for the good of the State. We were taught that our system with its flaws was superior, because it allowed individual freedoms, and competition spurred advancement.

Today, our Secret Police are able to break the rules, and nobody minds because of Terrorism. Or something. The rights we so valiantly defended in the 1980’s, and 1990’s, were swept away in 2002. So what do I hate?

Do I hate the enemy I joined the Army and trained to defeat to defend the Constitution? Do I hate their abuses of the people? Their corrupt and vile system that trampled the rights of their own citizens? If so, who is the enemy? Because that would mean I would have to hate my own country, rather than be disappointed and even a little ashamed. I can’t very well hate the country I swore an oath to defend.

Hate is a weapon for your enemy. It poisons your soul. But let’s go to my Catholic Upbringing. I was taught that hate was a sin. I could defeat opponents without hating them. Playing hard in sports did not mean hating the opponent. Respect them, learn from them, learn about them, and defeat them. But Hate clouds your judgement, and you commit the sin. St. Augustine is famous for the quote of Hate the sin, and love the sinner. How could you not love another of God’s creations? Even while you must kill him in a war, and I did, I did not hate.

I joined the Army. I joined the Airborne, and went to war with the 82nd Airborne. I fought fellow soldiers in bar fights. But I never hated any of them. I fought Iraq and lost friends from our sister unit, the 37th Engineers. I did not hate the Iraqi’s. I believed they must be stopped, and pushed out of Kuwait. I did not believe we should eliminate all of them. When we took prisoners, I insured that the prisoners were treated in accordance with the laws of war.

Martial Arts teach us that hate and anger are weapons for your enemy. If hating my enemy makes the enemy stronger, why would I do so? The basic premise of Sun Tzu is to never do what your enemy wants. So if by hating him I make him stronger, and myself weaker, and it is what my enemy wants, why would I do it?

It is better to use determination, than hate. Even when you must kill your enemy, have no hate in your heart. Resolve is stronger, than hate, and lasts longer.

I don’t hate the North for the Civil war, and I don’t hate the South. I don’t hate the idiot racists. I have disdain for them, and utterly reject their flawed philosophy, but I don’t hate them. Black or whatever, brown or blue. It doesn’t matter. Hate makes you stupid, and stupid people are defeated easily.
There is far more racism and hate in the black community than the white.

Anyhow, hate is a relative term as in different people have different concepts of it.

The term like 'racism' is so misused I am reluctant to even talk about it.
Basically it is just a human emotion...not some demon like entity which you portend to make it into.

Like any human emotion it can be used for good or bad....it all comes down to what you hate.

Racism is a bias. A predisposition to believe a stereotype. Hate is an irrational emotion based upon those biased feelings.

Blacks who believe that all Whites are out to get them are wrong. Just as the Whites who claim Blacks are criminal and violent as a people. Both feel their bias is justified. Both are wrong.

I do not hate either Group. I feel disgust. I feel resolve not to fall into the easy hatreds. I feel determined to do the right thing.

I eschew the entire premise that one group of people is inherently evil. They may be wrong. But they are not evil.
You don’t hate black people rushing into a police precinct to burn it down looting stores? I hate to see who you do like
I think it was wrong. I think it was criminal. I think it was stupid. I do not hate those who did it.
When do you hate them! The 2nd building they loot or the tenth? Or just hug them lol
Who do I need to hate someone to stop them? We, and I mean my company. We killed more than five hundred people. I did not hate them. I still do not.

Hate is not necessary to stop someone. I can shoot someone invading my house today without hating them. In fact. Hate would cloud my judgement. I might miss a second person if I am not thinking. And I could end up dead.

Hating someone is exactly the opposite of the lessons that Jesus taught. The Serbs and Croats hated each other for centuries. It got more people dead for things that happened generations ago. Muslims and Jews hate. And they are still fighting.

Hate is one of those emotions you should try to resist and control. It does not make you stronger or smarter. It makes you weaker. You embrace evil yourself to justify your hate.

I do not hate anyone. I would not give them that kind of power over me.
It is truly astounding to watch you virtue signal about how you don't hate anyone, and how hating someone means giving them power over you. Truly pathetic...

This is exactly what the enemies of the people want to hear. Them being allowed to grow in power, while supposedly "good" people like yourself do nothing. Doing something about their evil would mean giving power to them after all.

That is if anyone accepts that you truly are as confused as you claim, and not simply a other disciple of the evil master, devoted to diversion.
The crews who dropped bombs on Japan were relieved that the Atomic Bomb had been dropped. They hated dropping the firebombs on Tokyo and the other cities. So they hated what they were doing more than the enemy? Yet we still won. They hated the smell of roasting burning flesh. The planes smelled of it even when they returned to base hours later.

Patton hated the Soviets so much he wanted to arm the Fascists to turn them East and go and get the Soviets. How did he defeat the Nazi’s if he hated the Soviets more?

A professional boxer does not hate his opponent. He wants to win, but he has resolve, determination, and desire. He fights hard, and risks brain injuries to win, and even death, but is not stupid enough to hate.

If hate is a good emotion, are there any bad ones? How about lust? Lusting after your neighbors wife or property is a sin isn’t it? Well God gave us those emotions they must be good. Adultery is from lust, and Adultery is a sin. But God gave us those emotions, they must be good.

Idiocy. Absolute idiocy. Every lesson from the Bible says not to do it. Every lesson from history shows that when you hate, you become the mirror of what you hate. So you become the thing you hate.

So the Left hates Conservatives. Run on issues, and populist ideals, and you’ll win generally speaking. Not every election, but enough to maintain control, if history is any indicator. When you embrace the hate, you drive supporters away.

Because the “enemy” does something, does not mean I have to. Because the Japanese tortured POW’s does not mean I need to. In fact, I would be wiser, much much wiser, not to. History, again, clearly shows that the most effective interrogation technique is not torture, anger, hatred. It is compassion, understanding, and patience. Atrocities do not dissuade the enemy, it gives them more reason to hate. Your hate, fuels their hate, and vice versa.

The worst thing to do to a Terrorist, is the one thing your Hatred won’t allow you to even consider. It is a trial, with all the rights, and bells and whistles intact. This allows you to show them to be nothing but common criminals. No more important than any run of the mill murderer.

When you torture them, to get information that is crap, you make yourself look weak. Stupid.
More nonsense....https://www.winonadailynews.com/news/opinion/columnists/other/glenn-garvin-ugly-truth-but-sometimes-torture-works/article_4d33c06e-b813-11e2-bcc9-001a4bcf887a.htmlGlenn Garvin: Ugly truth, but sometimes torture works
Torture is the worst method for gaining information. Seriously, the worst. You get far more information, from other means.


Now that is the result of the CIA’s own defense of their “enhanced interrogation” program. They did not get much information, and they got more information through other means, and it was better.

Now, you could argue that the CIA wasn’t torturing them enough. But let’s take the case of the RW’s Torture Champion. Former Congressman, Former Colonel in the Army. Alan West.

Alan West had his soldiers “detain” through a beating, a suspect. Then he decided the suspect was not afraid of the mean old Soldiers. So he fired his weapon next to the ear of the suspect. The suspect gave up names and locations. Nothing was found. No plans, no weapons, nothing. Later the Suspect said he made it up because he was afraid.

He made it up. A very common result in Torture. It is what our own troops did in Vietnam. Ted Williams the noted Baseball player was the commander of pretty much every unit. At least that was the name the guys gave up most often.

Sure, some real information made it out, but for the most part, they gave up garbage. Now, are Americans significantly different than the Terrorists? I mean, are our troops somehow motivated to withstand torture longer?
The expertise of the interrogators vary considerably some are more effective using one method some are more effective using others.

Just because one guy got bad info from using waterboarding or whatever does not mean that another interrogator will not be able to get good info.

I think the interrogation of prisoners should be left to those on the scene....they should not be under some pc b.s. that would hamper their best efforts to extract intelligence.

The real key is that we need the best interrogators with the freedom to do what they think is required.

Some indiot bureaucrat back in Washington should have no say over how prisoners are interrogated.

Anyhow on to something else.............I remember years ago sitting in a C 119 on a runway in Ft. Benning waiting for the plane to take off and wondering why in the hell anyone would want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane. hehheh

Thanks for your service but it always sad to see a fellow vet(particuarly an airborne one) get so confused about what is happening in America today.
There is no such thing as a "perfectly good airplane"; mechanical devices sometimes fail.
What's crazy, is getting on a plane without a parachute..... what are you gonna do if something goes wrong?

At least I can get off the damn bird.
You airborne guys are all alike, my son included. I was on a puddle jumper sandwiched between the hull and a Humvee flying in to Kiztigen German from Belgium, that was probably going to crash because they blew the landing gear on take off. I was gonna ride that puppy to the ground, having no plans to get out and walk.
Of all the times I have flown ...hundreds of times ... cannot even guess how many really but lots of flying time and during all those flights, in small planes, WWII era C 47, helicopters, passenger jets, C130's and flying boxcars while at Ft. Bennings jump school....I only had two incidents that were rather un nerving one in the military and one in a civilian plane.

Taking off from Maxwell AFB heading for Panama the plane was zooming down the runway then suddenly the pilot put the brakes on...we barely got stopped before the end of the runway came up.....so the pilot gets on the intercom and explains that he couldn't get up enough air speed and we would go back and try it again.....well fortunately he was able to do it the second time...lots of guys would have got off after the first try if we had the option hehheh

The second time was flying from Atlanta to Miami.....just before we began the landing approach the pilot gets on the intercom and tells us he is not sure the landing gear are secure...but he thinks the indicator light is just malfunctioning but just for pre caution everyone should take off their shoes and put their heads between their knees.

I didn't think too much of it until several women started crying and the lady sitting next to me started crying and she had a child with her and she was kinda embarassed about crying and she explained to me she was not crying for herself but for her kid. Then the flight attendant came and told me that if we crashed she wanted me to punch out the emergency window i was sitting by...at that point i got a little nervous. hehheh but all was fine.
 
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MacTheKnife

MacTheKnife

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The police need to replace the rubber bullets with Metallic ones
I do not know the facts in this case and since we cannot believe the media(especially in regards to racial matters) I will wait and see in regards to commenting on whether or not the police are guilty of misbehavior as in the guys death could have been due to natural causes as in a heart attack due to the stress of the event which he may have caused himself.

But a certain minority always wants to use these rare cases where it appears one of their members may have been mistreated to cause havoc in their city and or neighborhoods.....this should not be tolerated.

Blacks have access to the judicial system and that is where they should take their grievances...yet what we see time and again is for them to use violence or the threat of violence to get their way.

They know full well that politicians will cave in to them ...even to the point of indicting and arresting those who may be completely innocent and in some cases obviously so....like in the zimmerman case and now in the infamous Jawja jogga case...but the politicians are not interested in truth or justice...they only want to protect their careers and avoid being labeled racist...thus the blacks are able to extort or more like blackmail liberal politicians to give in to them.
I saw video where two cops had him walking around in hand cuffed with his hands behind his back and started to sit him down leaning against the wall a a building prior to walking him some more, without him struggling. Of course everybody has seen the video on the guy held down with a knee on the side of his neck and heard him pleading that he couldn't breath before he passed out. Are you saying one of the two videos made on somebody's home computer and is fake? Which one?
What’s that have to do with looting?
Oh, you probably skipped the OP's post at beginning of thread. He thinks the riots and looting is caused by the mainstream media. I think the riots and looting was sparked by the cops killing that guy while multiple people filmed it with their cellphones. Protests that turn into angry mobs is about mob psychology which to me is like a cattle herd that gets spooked and stampedes. You got a different theory? The OP thinks the cops are cowards, which I doubt. So he and I are not agreeing about a lot tonight. Are you a mainstream media started it guy, a cops are cowards guy, or somebody who thinks the cops should not have killed that handcuffed guy?
The cops aren't cowards. They are prohibited from fighting back so they may as well leave. We don't pay them to sit around until they get torn apart by sub human savages.

I have had the misfortune to have been in more than one riot. The Watts Riots, the Rodney King Riot and the smaller Staples Riot. The entire point of the riot is the looting and arson.
Don't worry. I was just quoting the OP not taking his side. For protection of human life when the rioters are not attacking people or firing weapons, standing back is probably the best method. Tactics have changed over the years since the 60s. Some people have not noticed. Were you a newsy or Law Enforcement? I certainly can't picture you breaking windows and stealing TVs.
Just a long time Southern California resident and criminal defense lawyer.

In Ohio the entire government abandoned the state house. Did you see that? I'm afraid democrats are entering the final act.
interesting. A little quieter over here in Tennessee.
No I did not see that til you mentioned. You think the whole situation will calm any now that at least the Officer holding him down has been taken into custody? 50/50? or think into the weekend to Sunday?
It has now been revealed the Negro died of natural causes and the fact he got over stressed by arguing with the police and resisting arrest.

in a nutshell he caused his own death....like I suggested previously.
The authorities do not agree. they seem to think the former officer killed him.

A white former Minneapolis police officer was charged with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter on Friday after a shocking video of him kneeling for nearly nine minutes on the neck of a black man set off a wave of protests across the country.
The former officer, Derek Chauvin, 44, was taken into custody on charges that carry a combined maximum 35-year sentence. Mr. Chauvin kept his knee planted even as the man, George Floyd, told all four officers involved in his arrest that he could not breathe. At times, Mr. Floyd begged “please” and cried out “mama,” according to a statement of probable cause released by prosecutors.
“The defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total,” the court document said. “Two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive.”
It is now known he died of natural causes....he was in very bad health ...heart problems etc.
Maybe you should contact him to take his case.
The case should be dismissed now that that the autopsy reveals he died of natural causes.
No. Clearly the officer has committed a manslaughter. His acts were the proximate cause of the man's death.

Who would have suspected that these black men were so fragile?
Not clear at all...…..a jury will make that determination. The central question being now that the autopsy reveals the black was not choked to death will be did the police perform the arrest with any illegal procedures...since the choke hold has been nullified by the autopsy....I dont know of any other move that has been ruled illegal other than the choke hold....I do not see any excessive force at all.

The knee on the guys neck would not be ruled ilegal since it did not interfere with his brething.

Now some misinfomed types will claim it was an illegal arrest....how so? He was comitting a crime....became angry, refused to follow police orders and they had to wrestle him to the ground as he was resisting arrest.....he died from natural causes as a result of getting stressed out which he provoked himself.

Unless the jury is all black I do not see the office being convicted as he should not be...he did nothing illegal.
For two minutes after the cops could not get a pulse the idiot cop left his knee on the neck. He knew what he was doing. He wanted to make sure it was done.
Why do you think he wanted to kill the guy?

You did hear about the autopsy report?
 

Norman

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The police need to replace the rubber bullets with Metallic ones
I do not know the facts in this case and since we cannot believe the media(especially in regards to racial matters) I will wait and see in regards to commenting on whether or not the police are guilty of misbehavior as in the guys death could have been due to natural causes as in a heart attack due to the stress of the event which he may have caused himself.

But a certain minority always wants to use these rare cases where it appears one of their members may have been mistreated to cause havoc in their city and or neighborhoods.....this should not be tolerated.

Blacks have access to the judicial system and that is where they should take their grievances...yet what we see time and again is for them to use violence or the threat of violence to get their way.

They know full well that politicians will cave in to them ...even to the point of indicting and arresting those who may be completely innocent and in some cases obviously so....like in the zimmerman case and now in the infamous Jawja jogga case...but the politicians are not interested in truth or justice...they only want to protect their careers and avoid being labeled racist...thus the blacks are able to extort or more like blackmail liberal politicians to give in to them.
I saw video where two cops had him walking around in hand cuffed with his hands behind his back and started to sit him down leaning against the wall a a building prior to walking him some more, without him struggling. Of course everybody has seen the video on the guy held down with a knee on the side of his neck and heard him pleading that he couldn't breath before he passed out. Are you saying one of the two videos made on somebody's home computer and is fake? Which one?
What’s that have to do with looting?
Oh, you probably skipped the OP's post at beginning of thread. He thinks the riots and looting is caused by the mainstream media. I think the riots and looting was sparked by the cops killing that guy while multiple people filmed it with their cellphones. Protests that turn into angry mobs is about mob psychology which to me is like a cattle herd that gets spooked and stampedes. You got a different theory? The OP thinks the cops are cowards, which I doubt. So he and I are not agreeing about a lot tonight. Are you a mainstream media started it guy, a cops are cowards guy, or somebody who thinks the cops should not have killed that handcuffed guy?
The cops aren't cowards. They are prohibited from fighting back so they may as well leave. We don't pay them to sit around until they get torn apart by sub human savages.

I have had the misfortune to have been in more than one riot. The Watts Riots, the Rodney King Riot and the smaller Staples Riot. The entire point of the riot is the looting and arson.
Don't worry. I was just quoting the OP not taking his side. For protection of human life when the rioters are not attacking people or firing weapons, standing back is probably the best method. Tactics have changed over the years since the 60s. Some people have not noticed. Were you a newsy or Law Enforcement? I certainly can't picture you breaking windows and stealing TVs.
Just a long time Southern California resident and criminal defense lawyer.

In Ohio the entire government abandoned the state house. Did you see that? I'm afraid democrats are entering the final act.
interesting. A little quieter over here in Tennessee.
No I did not see that til you mentioned. You think the whole situation will calm any now that at least the Officer holding him down has been taken into custody? 50/50? or think into the weekend to Sunday?
It has now been revealed the Negro died of natural causes and the fact he got over stressed by arguing with the police and resisting arrest.

in a nutshell he caused his own death....like I suggested previously.
The authorities do not agree. they seem to think the former officer killed him.

A white former Minneapolis police officer was charged with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter on Friday after a shocking video of him kneeling for nearly nine minutes on the neck of a black man set off a wave of protests across the country.
The former officer, Derek Chauvin, 44, was taken into custody on charges that carry a combined maximum 35-year sentence. Mr. Chauvin kept his knee planted even as the man, George Floyd, told all four officers involved in his arrest that he could not breathe. At times, Mr. Floyd begged “please” and cried out “mama,” according to a statement of probable cause released by prosecutors.
“The defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total,” the court document said. “Two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive.”
It is now known he died of natural causes....he was in very bad health ...heart problems etc.
Maybe you should contact him to take his case.
The case should be dismissed now that that the autopsy reveals he died of natural causes.
No. Clearly the officer has committed a manslaughter. His acts were the proximate cause of the man's death.

Who would have suspected that these black men were so fragile?
Not clear at all...…..a jury will make that determination. The central question being now that the autopsy reveals the black was not choked to death will be did the police perform the arrest with any illegal procedures...since the choke hold has been nullified by the autopsy....I dont know of any other move that has been ruled illegal other than the choke hold....I do not see any excessive force at all.

The knee on the guys neck would not be ruled ilegal since it did not interfere with his brething.

Now some misinfomed types will claim it was an illegal arrest....how so? He was comitting a crime....became angry, refused to follow police orders and they had to wrestle him to the ground as he was resisting arrest.....he died from natural causes as a result of getting stressed out which he provoked himself.

Unless the jury is all black I do not see the office being convicted as he should not be...he did nothing illegal.
For two minutes after the cops could not get a pulse the idiot cop left his knee on the neck. He knew what he was doing. He wanted to make sure it was done.
He likely had a pulse. Died later in the hospital from what I am reading. No evidence of asphyxiation.
 

White 6

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The police need to replace the rubber bullets with Metallic ones
I do not know the facts in this case and since we cannot believe the media(especially in regards to racial matters) I will wait and see in regards to commenting on whether or not the police are guilty of misbehavior as in the guys death could have been due to natural causes as in a heart attack due to the stress of the event which he may have caused himself.

But a certain minority always wants to use these rare cases where it appears one of their members may have been mistreated to cause havoc in their city and or neighborhoods.....this should not be tolerated.

Blacks have access to the judicial system and that is where they should take their grievances...yet what we see time and again is for them to use violence or the threat of violence to get their way.

They know full well that politicians will cave in to them ...even to the point of indicting and arresting those who may be completely innocent and in some cases obviously so....like in the zimmerman case and now in the infamous Jawja jogga case...but the politicians are not interested in truth or justice...they only want to protect their careers and avoid being labeled racist...thus the blacks are able to extort or more like blackmail liberal politicians to give in to them.
I saw video where two cops had him walking around in hand cuffed with his hands behind his back and started to sit him down leaning against the wall a a building prior to walking him some more, without him struggling. Of course everybody has seen the video on the guy held down with a knee on the side of his neck and heard him pleading that he couldn't breath before he passed out. Are you saying one of the two videos made on somebody's home computer and is fake? Which one?
What’s that have to do with looting?
Oh, you probably skipped the OP's post at beginning of thread. He thinks the riots and looting is caused by the mainstream media. I think the riots and looting was sparked by the cops killing that guy while multiple people filmed it with their cellphones. Protests that turn into angry mobs is about mob psychology which to me is like a cattle herd that gets spooked and stampedes. You got a different theory? The OP thinks the cops are cowards, which I doubt. So he and I are not agreeing about a lot tonight. Are you a mainstream media started it guy, a cops are cowards guy, or somebody who thinks the cops should not have killed that handcuffed guy?
It doesn’t take much for the BLM crowd to start a riot. Plenty of people get murdered in this country every day. But these losers are just waiting for a “white kills black” on camera to give themselves an excuse to riot and make the news. I guess they think America will finally “listen to them” in their pleas for “social justice”. Thing is, no one is buying their shit. America keeps rejecting their racist bullshit, and they are losing their minds over it.
Have you ever heard the old saying. The straw that broke the camels back? It is a curious truth. A straw is a very light item. It might weigh an ounce. If that. Probably less.

Yet the truth is that at some point, that straw exceeds the maximum capacity of something, like a camels back.

But what it implies is a lot of things were put on there first. A lot of straws. My father used to ask me what I would rather be crushed by. A ton of feathers, or a ton of lead? I would answer feathers because they were lighter and softer. The truth is as I grew and matured I figured out that what the material was did not matter. It was the ton that was the important part of the discussion. A ton of feathers would crush me as effectively as the lead would.

So let’s talk about those straws. Thousands of them piled up on the Camels back. Bullshit traffic stops to check for drugs. Do you own this car, and a thousand other nonsense interactions. Arrests for questionable reasons, and planted evidence. And finally the last straw falls, and it is imperfect. But it is the last straw. It is the one that will tip it over to disaster, crushing the Camel.

You deride the camel for surrendering to his one straw, but you don’t give it any credit for holding up under all the others.

You like to bring up Ferguson as an example. Well we know that Ferguson was violating the civil rights of the citizens. We know that Ferguson police were dumping bullshit charges on people. Including my personal favorite, charging a man they had beaten to a pulp for destruction of public property. The specifics? He bled on the police during the altercation, and ruined their uniforms. Seriously. He wasn’t the guy they were looking for, he wasn’t the man with a warrant. He had committed no crime. The charges were resisting arrest, and destruction of public property.

The DOJ using the same investigation standards started long before and carried out during the entire administration of W. Bush, found that Ferguson was violating the Constitution in many areas.

Yes, Mike Brown was an imperfect straw, but there were a lot of straws on that camel that were less imperfect. This situation is another imperfect straw, but there are a lot of straws dumped on the camel every day.
All you have is heresay.....the same thing that motivates any mob or lynching party.....yet when blacks do it....a different standard is applied .aika oh dey entitled.
No, we have the results of the investigation into the Ferguson Police Department which I highlighted.


Now, if it was your family, and friends, who were the victims of unconstitutional policing. Even if they were not arrested, wouldn’t you get angry? Wouldn’t that anger simmer?

The problem is that we view such things as individual incidents. Oh a cop just went a little too far. Oh this cop made a bad choice. We don’t think of the cumulative effect of it. Like Chinese Water Torture, a tiny thing adds up after time and repetition.

None of this is new, it is all old news. Baltimore, the Freddy Gray. No video there. But hey, the result was the same. And the investigation into the Police Department was as predictable.

The police had a pattern of unconstitutional stops, searches, and arrests. Each one of those was a straw on a camels back. Small and insignificant in the grand scheme, and taken with the other small and insignificant events, eventually certain to overwhelm the ability to resist.


Do I support Riots? Absolutely not. Do I understand why they are angry? I probably can not truly imagine the rage. But I do understand that the rage exists, and why. Now, Trump and Sessions shut down those DOJ department wide investigations. So now nobody is examining the policies and practices of the Police Departments. And that is always a bad thing. Because the oath Trump took was the same one every Federal Official took. To support and defend the Constitution. That means defending the rights contained within.

We have to be determined to defend those rights, of every citizen, every single time.
You are sounding more and more like a leftist.

There is zero excuse for the riots, and the riots alone were worse than police brutality for decades.

If you want to see the cops actually do something wrong, see how they arrested the business owner who defended his business against the savages. See how they arrest Americans for covid stupidity. A true wrong.
I wrote that I did not agree with the riots, but I understood the Underlying cause for the anger.

Odd isn’t it, that you are intent to label me? Ok. Here is the labels for you.

By Rural Georgia Standards I am reasonably Liberal. I am a member of the ACLU, NRA, and USCCA. I believe that we are duty bound to defend the rights contained within the Constitution. All the rights. Not just the second, or the first, or the fifth. All of them.

By San Francisco, or New York Standards, I am a rabid right wing radical gun nut bible thumping redneck asshole. Because I believe in God, and I believe that we all have the right to keep and bear arms. I don’t fly the American Flag, and haven’t in many years. I am ashamed of what my Country has become. The Department of Homeland Insecurity. The National Security Letters, and the violations of the Constitution that happen to prevent “IT” from ever happening again. That it has never worked, doesn’t matter to the supporters of the excesses. We must make the sacrifice if it means we can prevent even one terrorist attack.

I believe that if the Police or Prosecutors conduct misconduct, withhold evidence, lie, plant evidence, and any of the routine things, that we have to drop the charges. I believe that the Constitution intends us to make it hard to convict someone, and those restrictions are intended to prevent an innocent from going to prison. I agree wholeheartedly with the statement of Justice Blackwell. It is better for a thousand guilty men to go free, than one innocent man go to prison.

I believe you have a right to defend yourself. I also believe society has a duty to review the circumstances of that defense to insure it was justified. I do not care what color the people are, they have a right to self defense.

I believe the Civil War is nothing of the sort. A civil war is where two factions are fighting for control of the Government. The Southern States wanted to leave the Union, not control it.

I believe it is stupid and self destructive to hate. History has shown that when you hate, you become the mirror image of the thing you hate. Hitler hated the Jews and Soviets. So he embraced Fascism, which was bereft of a dimes worth of difference from the Soviets. The same secret police, the same rampant authoritarian nonsense. The same brutality. The same disregard for life. I believe there were no good guys on the Eastern Front, and that the T-34 was hands down the best tank of the entire war.
No one cares what you believe. However, we can't miss what you are doing - playing on the enemy lines. You should try hating the enemy instead of loving and you wouldn't be making such a stupid mistake. Reasonable people hate their enemies and evil.

There is no reason at all for you to defend them. No virtue points will be awarded, they know and hate their enemies - which is all Americans yourself included.
Reasonable people hate? Great. In the 1980’s, we were taught that we were the superior political system. One of those reasons given was the rights, and the constitution. Soviet Citizens had no such rights, and the secret police could break whatever rules existed, for the good of the State. We were taught that our system with its flaws was superior, because it allowed individual freedoms, and competition spurred advancement.

Today, our Secret Police are able to break the rules, and nobody minds because of Terrorism. Or something. The rights we so valiantly defended in the 1980’s, and 1990’s, were swept away in 2002. So what do I hate?

Do I hate the enemy I joined the Army and trained to defeat to defend the Constitution? Do I hate their abuses of the people? Their corrupt and vile system that trampled the rights of their own citizens? If so, who is the enemy? Because that would mean I would have to hate my own country, rather than be disappointed and even a little ashamed. I can’t very well hate the country I swore an oath to defend.

Hate is a weapon for your enemy. It poisons your soul. But let’s go to my Catholic Upbringing. I was taught that hate was a sin. I could defeat opponents without hating them. Playing hard in sports did not mean hating the opponent. Respect them, learn from them, learn about them, and defeat them. But Hate clouds your judgement, and you commit the sin. St. Augustine is famous for the quote of Hate the sin, and love the sinner. How could you not love another of God’s creations? Even while you must kill him in a war, and I did, I did not hate.

I joined the Army. I joined the Airborne, and went to war with the 82nd Airborne. I fought fellow soldiers in bar fights. But I never hated any of them. I fought Iraq and lost friends from our sister unit, the 37th Engineers. I did not hate the Iraqi’s. I believed they must be stopped, and pushed out of Kuwait. I did not believe we should eliminate all of them. When we took prisoners, I insured that the prisoners were treated in accordance with the laws of war.

Martial Arts teach us that hate and anger are weapons for your enemy. If hating my enemy makes the enemy stronger, why would I do so? The basic premise of Sun Tzu is to never do what your enemy wants. So if by hating him I make him stronger, and myself weaker, and it is what my enemy wants, why would I do it?

It is better to use determination, than hate. Even when you must kill your enemy, have no hate in your heart. Resolve is stronger, than hate, and lasts longer.

I don’t hate the North for the Civil war, and I don’t hate the South. I don’t hate the idiot racists. I have disdain for them, and utterly reject their flawed philosophy, but I don’t hate them. Black or whatever, brown or blue. It doesn’t matter. Hate makes you stupid, and stupid people are defeated easily.
There is far more racism and hate in the black community than the white.

Anyhow, hate is a relative term as in different people have different concepts of it.

The term like 'racism' is so misused I am reluctant to even talk about it.
Basically it is just a human emotion...not some demon like entity which you portend to make it into.

Like any human emotion it can be used for good or bad....it all comes down to what you hate.

Racism is a bias. A predisposition to believe a stereotype. Hate is an irrational emotion based upon those biased feelings.

Blacks who believe that all Whites are out to get them are wrong. Just as the Whites who claim Blacks are criminal and violent as a people. Both feel their bias is justified. Both are wrong.

I do not hate either Group. I feel disgust. I feel resolve not to fall into the easy hatreds. I feel determined to do the right thing.

I eschew the entire premise that one group of people is inherently evil. They may be wrong. But they are not evil.
You don’t hate black people rushing into a police precinct to burn it down looting stores? I hate to see who you do like
I think it was wrong. I think it was criminal. I think it was stupid. I do not hate those who did it.
When do you hate them! The 2nd building they loot or the tenth? Or just hug them lol
Who do I need to hate someone to stop them? We, and I mean my company. We killed more than five hundred people. I did not hate them. I still do not.

Hate is not necessary to stop someone. I can shoot someone invading my house today without hating them. In fact. Hate would cloud my judgement. I might miss a second person if I am not thinking. And I could end up dead.

Hating someone is exactly the opposite of the lessons that Jesus taught. The Serbs and Croats hated each other for centuries. It got more people dead for things that happened generations ago. Muslims and Jews hate. And they are still fighting.

Hate is one of those emotions you should try to resist and control. It does not make you stronger or smarter. It makes you weaker. You embrace evil yourself to justify your hate.

I do not hate anyone. I would not give them that kind of power over me.
It is truly astounding to watch you virtue signal about how you don't hate anyone, and how hating someone means giving them power over you. Truly pathetic...

This is exactly what the enemies of the people want to hear. Them being allowed to grow in power, while supposedly "good" people like yourself do nothing. Doing something about their evil would mean giving power to them after all.

That is if anyone accepts that you truly are as confused as you claim, and not simply a other disciple of the evil master, devoted to diversion.
The crews who dropped bombs on Japan were relieved that the Atomic Bomb had been dropped. They hated dropping the firebombs on Tokyo and the other cities. So they hated what they were doing more than the enemy? Yet we still won. They hated the smell of roasting burning flesh. The planes smelled of it even when they returned to base hours later.

Patton hated the Soviets so much he wanted to arm the Fascists to turn them East and go and get the Soviets. How did he defeat the Nazi’s if he hated the Soviets more?

A professional boxer does not hate his opponent. He wants to win, but he has resolve, determination, and desire. He fights hard, and risks brain injuries to win, and even death, but is not stupid enough to hate.

If hate is a good emotion, are there any bad ones? How about lust? Lusting after your neighbors wife or property is a sin isn’t it? Well God gave us those emotions they must be good. Adultery is from lust, and Adultery is a sin. But God gave us those emotions, they must be good.

Idiocy. Absolute idiocy. Every lesson from the Bible says not to do it. Every lesson from history shows that when you hate, you become the mirror of what you hate. So you become the thing you hate.

So the Left hates Conservatives. Run on issues, and populist ideals, and you’ll win generally speaking. Not every election, but enough to maintain control, if history is any indicator. When you embrace the hate, you drive supporters away.

Because the “enemy” does something, does not mean I have to. Because the Japanese tortured POW’s does not mean I need to. In fact, I would be wiser, much much wiser, not to. History, again, clearly shows that the most effective interrogation technique is not torture, anger, hatred. It is compassion, understanding, and patience. Atrocities do not dissuade the enemy, it gives them more reason to hate. Your hate, fuels their hate, and vice versa.

The worst thing to do to a Terrorist, is the one thing your Hatred won’t allow you to even consider. It is a trial, with all the rights, and bells and whistles intact. This allows you to show them to be nothing but common criminals. No more important than any run of the mill murderer.

When you torture them, to get information that is crap, you make yourself look weak. Stupid.
More nonsense....https://www.winonadailynews.com/news/opinion/columnists/other/glenn-garvin-ugly-truth-but-sometimes-torture-works/article_4d33c06e-b813-11e2-bcc9-001a4bcf887a.htmlGlenn Garvin: Ugly truth, but sometimes torture works
Torture is the worst method for gaining information. Seriously, the worst. You get far more information, from other means.


Now that is the result of the CIA’s own defense of their “enhanced interrogation” program. They did not get much information, and they got more information through other means, and it was better.

Now, you could argue that the CIA wasn’t torturing them enough. But let’s take the case of the RW’s Torture Champion. Former Congressman, Former Colonel in the Army. Alan West.

Alan West had his soldiers “detain” through a beating, a suspect. Then he decided the suspect was not afraid of the mean old Soldiers. So he fired his weapon next to the ear of the suspect. The suspect gave up names and locations. Nothing was found. No plans, no weapons, nothing. Later the Suspect said he made it up because he was afraid.

He made it up. A very common result in Torture. It is what our own troops did in Vietnam. Ted Williams the noted Baseball player was the commander of pretty much every unit. At least that was the name the guys gave up most often.

Sure, some real information made it out, but for the most part, they gave up garbage. Now, are Americans significantly different than the Terrorists? I mean, are our troops somehow motivated to withstand torture longer?
The expertise of the interrogators vary considerably some are more effective using one method some are more effective using others.

Just because one guy got bad info from using waterboarding or whatever does not mean that another interrogator will not be able to get good info.

I think the interrogation of prisoners should be left to those on the scene....they should not be under some pc b.s. that would hamper their best efforts to extract intelligence.

The real key is that we need the best interrogators with the freedom to do what they think is required.

Some indiot bureaucrat back in Washington should have no say over how prisoners are interrogated.

Anyhow on to something else.............I remember years ago sitting in a C 119 on a runway in Ft. Benning waiting for the plane to take off and wondering why in the hell anyone would want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane. hehheh

Thanks for your service but it always sad to see a fellow vet(particuarly an airborne one) get so confused about what is happening in America today.
There is no such thing as a "perfectly good airplane"; mechanical devices sometimes fail.
What's crazy, is getting on a plane without a parachute..... what are you gonna do if something goes wrong?

At least I can get off the damn bird.
You airborne guys are all alike, my son included. I was on a puddle jumper sandwiched between the hull and a Humvee flying in to Kiztigen German from Belgium, that was probably going to crash because they blew the landing gear on take off. I was gonna ride that puppy to the ground, having no plans to get out and walk.
Of all the times I have flown ...hundreds of times ... cannot even guess how many really but lots of flying time and during all those flights, in small planes, WWII era C 47, helicopters, passenger jets, C130's and flying boxcars while at Ft. Bennings jump school....I only had two incidents that were rather un nerving one in the military and one in a civilian plane.

Taking off from Maxwell AFB heading for Panama the plane was zooming down the runway then suddenly the pilot put the brakes on...we barely got stopped before the end of the runway came up.....so the pilot gets on the intercom and explains that he couldn't get up enough air speed and we would go back and try it again.....well fortunately he was able to do it the second time...lots of guys would have got off after the first try if we had the option hehheh

The second time was flying from Atlanta to Miami.....just before we began the landing approach the pilot gets on the intercom and tells us he is not sure the landing gear are secure...but he thinks the indicator light is just malfunctioning but just for pre caution everyone should take off their shoes and put their heads between their knees.

I didn't think too much of it until several women started crying and the lady sitting next to me started crying and she had a child with her and she was kinda embarassed about crying and she explained to me she was not crying for herself but for her kid. Then the flight attendant came and told me that if we crashed she wanted me to punch out the emergency window i was sitting by...at that point i got a little nervous. hehheh but all was fine.
I saw a wire snap on the wing of a c130 on the tarmac. The wing slapped the ground. I wasn't leaving with them, but went back on the plane to calm them as the ground crew and crew cheif lifted the wing with a forklift and restrung to cable support and then they took off. On the return trip from that flight to Fort Knox as the plane revved up, my troops told me later the right engine literally blew up and they had to wait for hours for another plane to arrive to bring them home. Many of those guys were with me on the puddle jumper out of Antwerpen with the landing gear thing. Some of them swore they would never get on a plane I had anything to do with after that. Flying is not a natural act. You just put your faith in everything functioning and people in control know what they are doing and don't sweat it. Like you, I have lived through every flight I ever took, (I think).
 
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MacTheKnife

MacTheKnife

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The police need to replace the rubber bullets with Metallic ones
I do not know the facts in this case and since we cannot believe the media(especially in regards to racial matters) I will wait and see in regards to commenting on whether or not the police are guilty of misbehavior as in the guys death could have been due to natural causes as in a heart attack due to the stress of the event which he may have caused himself.

But a certain minority always wants to use these rare cases where it appears one of their members may have been mistreated to cause havoc in their city and or neighborhoods.....this should not be tolerated.

Blacks have access to the judicial system and that is where they should take their grievances...yet what we see time and again is for them to use violence or the threat of violence to get their way.

They know full well that politicians will cave in to them ...even to the point of indicting and arresting those who may be completely innocent and in some cases obviously so....like in the zimmerman case and now in the infamous Jawja jogga case...but the politicians are not interested in truth or justice...they only want to protect their careers and avoid being labeled racist...thus the blacks are able to extort or more like blackmail liberal politicians to give in to them.
I saw video where two cops had him walking around in hand cuffed with his hands behind his back and started to sit him down leaning against the wall a a building prior to walking him some more, without him struggling. Of course everybody has seen the video on the guy held down with a knee on the side of his neck and heard him pleading that he couldn't breath before he passed out. Are you saying one of the two videos made on somebody's home computer and is fake? Which one?
What’s that have to do with looting?
Oh, you probably skipped the OP's post at beginning of thread. He thinks the riots and looting is caused by the mainstream media. I think the riots and looting was sparked by the cops killing that guy while multiple people filmed it with their cellphones. Protests that turn into angry mobs is about mob psychology which to me is like a cattle herd that gets spooked and stampedes. You got a different theory? The OP thinks the cops are cowards, which I doubt. So he and I are not agreeing about a lot tonight. Are you a mainstream media started it guy, a cops are cowards guy, or somebody who thinks the cops should not have killed that handcuffed guy?
The cops aren't cowards. They are prohibited from fighting back so they may as well leave. We don't pay them to sit around until they get torn apart by sub human savages.

I have had the misfortune to have been in more than one riot. The Watts Riots, the Rodney King Riot and the smaller Staples Riot. The entire point of the riot is the looting and arson.
Don't worry. I was just quoting the OP not taking his side. For protection of human life when the rioters are not attacking people or firing weapons, standing back is probably the best method. Tactics have changed over the years since the 60s. Some people have not noticed. Were you a newsy or Law Enforcement? I certainly can't picture you breaking windows and stealing TVs.
Just a long time Southern California resident and criminal defense lawyer.

In Ohio the entire government abandoned the state house. Did you see that? I'm afraid democrats are entering the final act.
interesting. A little quieter over here in Tennessee.
No I did not see that til you mentioned. You think the whole situation will calm any now that at least the Officer holding him down has been taken into custody? 50/50? or think into the weekend to Sunday?
It has now been revealed the Negro died of natural causes and the fact he got over stressed by arguing with the police and resisting arrest.

in a nutshell he caused his own death....like I suggested previously.
The authorities do not agree. they seem to think the former officer killed him.

A white former Minneapolis police officer was charged with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter on Friday after a shocking video of him kneeling for nearly nine minutes on the neck of a black man set off a wave of protests across the country.
The former officer, Derek Chauvin, 44, was taken into custody on charges that carry a combined maximum 35-year sentence. Mr. Chauvin kept his knee planted even as the man, George Floyd, told all four officers involved in his arrest that he could not breathe. At times, Mr. Floyd begged “please” and cried out “mama,” according to a statement of probable cause released by prosecutors.
“The defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total,” the court document said. “Two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive.”
It is now known he died of natural causes....he was in very bad health ...heart problems etc.
Maybe you should contact him to take his case.
The case should be dismissed now that that the autopsy reveals he died of natural causes.
No. Clearly the officer has committed a manslaughter. His acts were the proximate cause of the man's death.

Who would have suspected that these black men were so fragile?
Not clear at all...…..a jury will make that determination. The central question being now that the autopsy reveals the black was not choked to death will be did the police perform the arrest with any illegal procedures...since the choke hold has been nullified by the autopsy....I dont know of any other move that has been ruled illegal other than the choke hold....I do not see any excessive force at all.

The knee on the guys neck would not be ruled ilegal since it did not interfere with his brething.

Now some misinfomed types will claim it was an illegal arrest....how so? He was comitting a crime....became angry, refused to follow police orders and they had to wrestle him to the ground as he was resisting arrest.....he died from natural causes as a result of getting stressed out which he provoked himself.

Unless the jury is all black I do not see the office being convicted as he should not be...he did nothing illegal.
For two minutes after the cops could not get a pulse the idiot cop left his knee on the neck. He knew what he was doing. He wanted to make sure it was done.
He likely had a pulse. Died later in the hospital from what I am reading. No evidence of asphyxiation.
So that rules out the knee on the neck choking him to death...not sure why the cop would have his knee on his neck...if he did. A lot of fake videos out there.

But undoubtedly the cop will be indicted and put on trial irregardless of whether he caused any damage to the guy or not.....they got to have a sacrifical lamb in this case...not that it will do them any good....the protestors will not be mollified until they get tired of looting and burning or the military steps end and forces them to cease and desist.
 

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