Corporation vs Government: Who Do You Trust?

[Baruch Menachem]

I have to disagree totally with the OP. What government does to people through callousness, stupidity, crassness, or shortsightedness is a lot worse than what businesses do. Businesses do not have the option of coercing you to buy the product, and they need you to come back. Business also lacks the capacity to do things on the scale of government.

 

[American Horse]

I have worked for both: USG 4-years military and 3 years as GS employee both hourly and salaried; Corporations two very large ones, RR Donnelly & Son's Co, and Westinghouse Electric Corporation. I found much less favoritism, and greater advancement for merit in the corporations. The very highest levels of both tend to suck.

At higher levels of the GS, you find rewards for merit, while lower echelon is regulated by time served, correct? I can think of a handful of CIA that got advancements under Bush. The Military is basicall a little of both. You have to have the time first, then the merit, before you advance. Of course there are exceptions for heroism that can can scoot you up the ladder.

And about caring if people die: Westinghouse was found responsible for allowing PCB's get outside their factory and into waste facilities and the local soil, but they honored their obligations to clean it up, collecting and safely burning many thousands of tons of soil, and setting up monitoring facilities to keep them in check.

I wonder if the clean up was due to government intervention and inspections?

The military was superb for offering challenges, and placing responsiblity, then gauging the acceptance of both with promotions when earned. In the GS I saw a person given the senior position because they couldn't serve in independent capacity on 24-hour watches, only during daytime hours when there was plenty of back-up on board, so that the best were precluded from the top job.

Sure, eventually the government got involved, since there were higher incidents of cancer around the dumps, but the evidence was obvious, and the company lived up to it's responsibility. At the time PCB's, an oily substance used as an electrical insulator, were put in capacitors their effects on human beings were completely unknown. The finding came from court degrees, and of course the government had a hand. But when push comes to shove, who can subject the government to tough scrutiny? Certainly our media watchdogs aren't reliable.

 

[shintao]

I don't trust either, what I do trust is true free markets which we don't have, unlike government, I can take my business from Business "A" to Business "B" if I was not satisfied with price or service,

So you would trust unregulated, ungoverned corporations.

unlike government, I can sue a business that does me wrong,

Sorry, courts are government. Is there a corporate court in your free market? Sorry there are no government laws (consumer laws) to protect you. Does your corporations have rules in their free market court? Or does the free market dictate, if you don't like A, too bad, you can move onto B and see if they are any better.

unlike government, I don't have to wait for years in hopes of change only to be disappointed;I can change immediately

Well sure! The TV stand that was delivered by A, just dumped you big screen on the floor. You can immediately buy another stand from B. That is change you can believe in!

and unlike government, a business can't seize my assets or throw me in prison for not conforming to their wishes.

Corporations don't call it seizing your assets, they call it raising the interest rates on your maxed out credit card from 6% to 25% overnight. They call it gouging you at the pump so their CEOs & boardmembers do not have to take a salary cut. They call it a mistake when you lay dying in the $$hospital$$ from food poisoning or flipped SUV that had a flat tire.

And being a free marketeer like yourself, you will pay and hate government more because they didn't protect you from those ol meany corporations.

 

[Care4all]

Corporations do not hold a gun at me and take my $ and give it to other people.

Sure they do, corporations take your money ALL THE TIME and GIVE it to other people.

The government does not hold a gun to your head. You live in a democratic republic, and vote for those who make these decisions, without a gun held to your head.

 

[shintao]

Corporations do not hold a gun at me and take my $ and give it to other people.

Of course they do. They gouged you at the pump and gave those massive profits to their CEOs, stockholders & boardmembers, so they wouldn't suffer a loss in profits.

 

[Hum Dinger]

Hypothetically, we have government "for and by" the people.

Unfortunately, "the People" are collectively, a bunch of apathetic, ignorant and selfish morons.

This is the essential problem with government. It is also why the government is primarily controlled by the corporations.

Why would anyone state that they do not trust the goverment, but do trust the corporations? If the corporations control the government, then the government is a tool of the corporations and therefore if you trust the corporations, you should inherently trust the government.

However, the fact is that, the government is not completely controlled by the corporations. "The People", how ever collectively moronic they may be, still have a large amount of control over government.

But, the corporations have a huge amount of control over "the People". Corporate marketing of ideas - especially political ideas - causes the morons of this nation to act politically against their own best interests and in the political interests of of the corporations.

We call this idiots "wingnuts".

They are those who collectively use their voting power to promote the interest and power of the corporations at the expense of the American people.

 

[johnrocks]

I don't trust either, what I do trust is true free markets which we don't have, unlike government, I can take my business from Business "A" to Business "B" if I was not satisfied with price or service,

So you would trust unregulated, ungoverned corporations.

unlike government, I can sue a business that does me wrong,

Sorry, courts are government. Is there a corporate court in your free market? Sorry there are no government laws (consumer laws) to protect you. Does your corporations have rules in their free market court? Or does the free market dictate, if you don't like A, too bad, you can move onto B and see if they are any better.

unlike government, I don't have to wait for years in hopes of change only to be disappointed;I can change immediately

Well sure! The TV stand that was delivered by A, just dumped you big screen on the floor. You can immediately buy another stand from B. That is change you can believe in!

and unlike government, a business can't seize my assets or throw me in prison for not conforming to their wishes.

Corporations don't call it seizing your assets, they call it raising the interest rates on your maxed out credit card from 6% to 25% overnight. They call it gouging you at the pump so their CEOs & boardmembers do not have to take a salary cut. They call it a mistake when you lay dying in the $$hospital$$ from food poisoning or flipped SUV that had a flat tire.

And being a free marketeer like yourself, you will pay and hate government more because they didn't protect you from those ol meany corporations.

I didn't say I wanted anarchy, of course we need government in order to enforce contracts and protect property rights among a few other things but what we have is a marriage of the two beasts, we knock government on the right but use it to subsidize corporations(Medicare Part D), the left embraces government and opposes corporatism but uses government to subsidize corporations(Obamacare)...two peas in a pod.

 

[boedicca]

Corporations do not hold a gun at me and take my $ and give it to other people.

Sure they do, corporations take your money ALL THE TIME and GIVE it to other people.

The government does not hold a gun to your head. You live in a democratic republic, and vote for those who make these decisions, without a gun held to your head.

You certainly have that backasswards.

Corporations do not take our money - we pay prices for goods and services on a voluntary basis.

Government takes money in the form of taxes, behind which lies the threat of force. Don't believe me, stop paying your taxes and see what happens (unless, of course, you work for the government and get the free pass.).

 

[boedicca]

Corporations do not hold a gun at me and take my $ and give it to other people.

Of course they do. They gouged you at the pump and gave those massive profits to their CEOs, stockholders & boardmembers, so they wouldn't suffer a loss in profits.

Federal and state taxes added to a gallon of gas exceed oil company profits - so who is really doing the gouging here?

You can avoid paying for gas if you are willing to make the lifestyle changes to reduce your consumption. If you aren't willing to do so, then we can only assume that the benefits you derive from using petrol are worth the price you are voluntarily paying.

 

[johnrocks]

You trust a government that gives Haliburton and other corporations billions to "spread democracy" , send troops around the world to police others and stir shit up, you trust a government that gives billions to insurance and pharmacutical corporations in the form of subsidies, you love a government that tells you that you can have a beer from Budweiser INCORPORATED but can't grow some pot to enjoy in the privacy of your home, you support a government that gives billions in farm subsidies to put corn in your gas tank but won't allow sugar cane from Brazil or Cuba.

Your government is playing you like a cheap fiddle and like a woman that is getting cheated on...you seem to be loving every minute of it as long as it lays some wood to you every once in a while

 

[Avorysuds]

I tend to trust corporations because their motive is profit, which is understandable. I know that if I can appeal to them on that basis I can deal with them honestly. I also know that the people who work for corporations understand this, and we can talk the same language.

Government is about power, and I cannot deliver any power to them. As a result government views me as insignificant. The people who work for government also understand this, and treat me as an inconvenience. We do not speak the same language.

YOU are government. It is YOUR responsibility to run it. So if a corporation kills your family off with salmonella poison, you feel you can deal with them honestly? How about you lose an arm working for a corporation, will they treat you honestly? Did ENRON or EXXON treat it's employees and Americans in general honestly?

Your clear bias is showing...

Sad thing is most of the things you hate about big corporations were probably helped and empowered by Big Government in some simple to understand way.

I think the question of who would we trust more is just a childish way of looking at it. It's who would you rather deal with when you have a problem with them. Big Corp is simple to deal with, you don't buy their product... Government Goes to war in Iraq or passes Obamacare, you are forced to pay.

 

[Avorysuds]

Government doing things in the best interest of the people! You will agree I'm sure because it might be your beloved masta FDR ...

Japanese American internment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Oddball]

Neither.

Also, since the biggest multi-national corporation in the world is known as "District of Columbia" (per a little known piece of legislation; 16 Stat, 419*), the question is not only a false dichotomy but it ignores the fact that gubmints are the source of all corporate privilege and power.

You might as well be asking people whether they trust Don Vito Corleone more, over Fat Clemenza and Sal Tessio.

* Established: Effective June 1, 1871, by an act of February 21, 1871 (16 Stat. 419), abolishing the Corporations of the City of Washington, DC, and Georgetown, DC, and the Levy Court of Washington County, DC; and replacing them with a municipal corporation known as the District of Columbia. Source: National Archives

OpEdNews - Article: U.S. Corporate Takeover... of the United States of America

This is all a good points. Still, corporations are out there on their own for the most part, and only those parts regulated are government controlled. The worms might be in the apple, but they haven't consumed it entirely, the full apple is not in the worms.

Corporations only do what gubmint regulators allow them to do.

They get their limited liabilities for their negligence and willing malfeasance from politicians and bureaucrats.

Corporations are the servants and gubmint is their master.

The false dichotomy remains....And you're a fool to keep falling fore it.

 

[shintao]

Did the government treat the Vietnam veterans fairly? Did it deal with the vet who have Gulf War Syndrome honestly?

No, government never treats a veteran fairly, nor do Corporations.

Trust me on this one, for every example of corporate misdeeds I can supply an example of government misdeeds, so tossing those out is a loosing proposition for you, governments have been along much longer than corporations, so I have a much larger pool to draw from.

So for you, it comes down to a case of the lesser of two evils, where government has had more time to create evil. So next we come to, since you are receiving evil from corporations, who do you turn to to rectify the harm? The corporation has no law, no courts to address your problems in the free market. Who will turn to? Or will you just accept harm as a price of trusting the corporation with your family?

I am not government, I am me.

That is because you are not an American, you are a taker.

[/QUOTE]It is the responsibility of the government to stay out of my way, but thanks to idiots like you, they seem to think it is my responsibility to answer to them. I disagree, and as a result the government tends to not see me, or listen to me.[/QUOTE]

Why should they? You want to be independent, fend for yourself taker.

Thanks for playing though. It is too bad that Trajan was right about you, and that you are not honest.

Honest about what taker? Have a lie you can note? Anything? What is your butt buddy right about?

 

[shintao]

I have to disagree totally with the OP. What government does to people through callousness, stupidity, crassness, or shortsightedness is a lot worse than what businesses do. Businesses do not have the option of coercing you to buy the product, and they need you to come back.

With government out of the way, a free market and no regulations, of course they can dictate your life to you. They become Monopolies like Walmart would, and if you want to eat, you will buy from them, They become the complete owner of the seeds of produce that do not regenerate, so if farmers want the seeds they have to go to Monsanto. If you want gas, you will be gouged at the pump, and you will pay or walk to work.

Business also lacks the capacity to do things on the scale of government.

So I guess you will have toll roads at the end of each persons property, as you pay your way to reach the lake, to buy a bucket of water at whatever price they want to sell it to you. Forget sanitized. Dos he also charge you a toll to drive to his lake? How is that unregulated free market working out for you? Now don't lie to me,as Tragan will take his marbles and go home.

 

[shintao]

I didn't say I wanted anarchy, of course we need government in order to enforce contracts and protect property rights among a few other things but what we have is a marriage of the two beasts, we knock government on the right but use it to subsidize corporations(Medicare Part D), the left embraces government and opposes corporatism but uses government to subsidize corporations(Obamacare)...two peas in a pod.

Corporation vs Government: Who Do You Trust?

Ahh, so you do trust government to govern, more than you would trust corporations to govern.

 

[The Rabbi]

Corporations do not hold a gun at me and take my $ and give it to other people.

Sure they do, corporations take your money ALL THE TIME and GIVE it to other people.

The government does not hold a gun to your head. You live in a democratic republic, and vote for those who make these decisions, without a gun held to your head.

Poor poor Care. How do you even get through the day?

I have never given money to a corporation that didn't ask for it first and I always had the option of saying NO. Not so with gov't, which fines me and threatens me with jail terms.
I get to vote at most once a year for gov't at all levels. I get to vote every minute of the day with my wallet for which corporation I want to have my money.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Government is about power, and I cannot deliver any power to them. As a result government views me as insignificant. The people who work for government also understand this, and treat me as an inconvenience. We do not speak the same language.

It would be nice to find someone that is willing to defend government honestly, wouldn't it?

well if i was your Letter Carrier Qw....i would only look at you as insignificant if you never emptied your mail box.....otherwise we be fine.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

YOU are government. It is YOUR responsibility to run it. So if a corporation kills your family off with salmonella poison, you feel you can deal with them honestly? How about you lose an arm working for a corporation, will they treat you honestly? Did ENRON or EXXON treat it's employees and Americans in general honestly?

did you ever see how the Govt. treats its workers who are injured on the job?.....not much difference ......

 

[Harry Dresden]

Don't believe me, stop paying your taxes and see what happens (unless, of course, you work for the government and get the free pass.).

i dont pay any taxes?......wow 30 years times what they have been taking out....lets see....IM RICH!!!.......come on Boe.....we dont get no free pass....who told you that?.....