Cops in schools: The downside

[Oldguy]

With the current push to place armed police officers in schools, perhaps we should look at what's happened in schools which have already done it.

The most striking effect is that more and more children are being pushed into the criminal justice system....from the schoolhouse! Discipline problems that used to be handled in the Principal's office now become legal issues as kids are written misdemeanor citations or charged with a crime.

Not surprisingly, Texas leads the nation:

"...Such criminal charges may be most prevalent in Texas, where police officers based in schools write more than 100,000 misdemeanor tickets each year..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/12/e...&_r=0&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130412

In a speech to the Texas Legislature last month, the Chief Justice of the Texas Supreme Court put the figure at 300,000.

"...."We are criminalizing our children for nonviolent offenses," he said, offering the startling statistic that the state issues some 300,000 tickets in public schools each year..."

A Call to Arms | Texas Monthly

Do we really want to criminalize juvenile, school yard behavior? Do we really want our schools to become revenue generating centers for cash strapped cities and counties? What effect will it have on future generations who are compelled to attend schools where they are locked in and kept in line by armed cops? How is that much different from a prison? Is all that really worth defending against the highly unlikely event of an armed intrusion?

We're not talking about adults here, but children as young as elementary age.

I say no. It's not worth it.

 

[Agit8r]

With the current push to place armed police officers in schools, perhaps we should look at what's happened in schools which have already done it.

The most striking effect is that more and more children are being pushed into the criminal justice system....from the schoolhouse! Discipline problems that used to be handled in the Principal's office now become legal issues as kids are written misdemeanor citations or charged with a crime.

Not surprisingly, Texas leads the nation:

"...Such criminal charges may be most prevalent in Texas, where police officers based in schools write more than 100,000 misdemeanor tickets each year..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/12/e...&_r=0&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130412

In a speech to the Texas Legislature last month, the Chief Justice of the Texas Supreme Court put the figure at 300,000.

"...."We are criminalizing our children for nonviolent offenses," he said, offering the startling statistic that the state issues some 300,000 tickets in public schools each year..."

A Call to Arms | Texas Monthly

Do we really want to criminalize juvenile, school yard behavior? Do we really want our schools to become revenue generating centers for cash strapped cities and counties? What effect will it have on future generations who are compelled to attend schools where they are locked in and kept in line by armed cops? How is that much different from a prison? Is all that really worth defending against the highly unlikely event of an armed intrusion?

We're not talking about adults here, but children as young as elementary age.

I say no. It's not worth it.

Most of the places that I've heard the horror stories are places like Arizona and Texas. While I'm not sure that cops in schools are necessarily the greatest idea, my guess would be that these aren't necessarily as big of problems in more sensible states.

 

[Zoom-boing]

With the current push to place armed police officers in schools, perhaps we should look at what's happened in schools which have already done it.

The most striking effect is that more and more children are being pushed into the criminal justice system....from the schoolhouse! Discipline problems that used to be handled in the Principal's office now become legal issues as kids are written misdemeanor citations or charged with a crime.

Not surprisingly, Texas leads the nation:

"...Such criminal charges may be most prevalent in Texas, where police officers based in schools write more than 100,000 misdemeanor tickets each year..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/12/e...&_r=0&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130412

In a speech to the Texas Legislature last month, the Chief Justice of the Texas Supreme Court put the figure at 300,000.

"...."We are criminalizing our children for nonviolent offenses," he said, offering the startling statistic that the state issues some 300,000 tickets in public schools each year..."

A Call to Arms | Texas Monthly

Do we really want to criminalize juvenile, school yard behavior? Do we really want our schools to become revenue generating centers for cash strapped cities and counties? What effect will it have on future generations who are compelled to attend schools where they are locked in and kept in line by armed cops? How is that much different from a prison? Is all that really worth defending against the highly unlikely event of an armed intrusion?

We're not talking about adults here, but children as young as elementary age.

I say no. It's not worth it.

That's what happens when PC language/ideas/povs are shoved down people's throats. No one can say anything for fear of 'offending' and now that typical kid behavior is being officially written up? Not surprised.

 

[Oldguy]

With the current push to place armed police officers in schools, perhaps we should look at what's happened in schools which have already done it.

The most striking effect is that more and more children are being pushed into the criminal justice system....from the schoolhouse! Discipline problems that used to be handled in the Principal's office now become legal issues as kids are written misdemeanor citations or charged with a crime.

Not surprisingly, Texas leads the nation:

"...Such criminal charges may be most prevalent in Texas, where police officers based in schools write more than 100,000 misdemeanor tickets each year..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/12/e...&_r=0&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130412

In a speech to the Texas Legislature last month, the Chief Justice of the Texas Supreme Court put the figure at 300,000.

"...."We are criminalizing our children for nonviolent offenses," he said, offering the startling statistic that the state issues some 300,000 tickets in public schools each year..."

A Call to Arms | Texas Monthly

Do we really want to criminalize juvenile, school yard behavior? Do we really want our schools to become revenue generating centers for cash strapped cities and counties? What effect will it have on future generations who are compelled to attend schools where they are locked in and kept in line by armed cops? How is that much different from a prison? Is all that really worth defending against the highly unlikely event of an armed intrusion?

We're not talking about adults here, but children as young as elementary age.

I say no. It's not worth it.

Most of the places that I've heard the horror stories are places like Arizona and Texas. While I'm not sure that cops in schools are necessarily the greatest idea, my guess would be that these aren't necessarily as big of problems in more sensible states.

That's probably because there are no uniform statistics being accumulated nationwide. This report looks at a study done by the Universities of Maryland and Massachusetts which looked at 5 different states. You can find their conclusions beginning on page 13:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...RJUZZ7&sig=AHIEtbQvyGvkjJFEO-78pMnDpjYKqffHCg

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

With the current push to place armed police officers in schools, perhaps we should look at what's happened in schools which have already done it.

The most striking effect is that more and more children are being pushed into the criminal justice system....from the schoolhouse! Discipline problems that used to be handled in the Principal's office now become legal issues as kids are written misdemeanor citations or charged with a crime.

Not surprisingly, Texas leads the nation:

"...Such criminal charges may be most prevalent in Texas, where police officers based in schools write more than 100,000 misdemeanor tickets each year..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/12/e...&_r=0&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130412

In a speech to the Texas Legislature last month, the Chief Justice of the Texas Supreme Court put the figure at 300,000.

"...."We are criminalizing our children for nonviolent offenses," he said, offering the startling statistic that the state issues some 300,000 tickets in public schools each year..."

A Call to Arms | Texas Monthly

Do we really want to criminalize juvenile, school yard behavior? Do we really want our schools to become revenue generating centers for cash strapped cities and counties? What effect will it have on future generations who are compelled to attend schools where they are locked in and kept in line by armed cops? How is that much different from a prison? Is all that really worth defending against the highly unlikely event of an armed intrusion?

We're not talking about adults here, but children as young as elementary age.

I say no. It's not worth it.

My brother and I were talking about this the other day. And while I agree the ticket writing is BS and discipline should be handled differently, you seem to be advocating school shootings rather then cops in schools.
A little extreme dont you think?
I think an adjustment in policy would be a better solution then allowing our kids to be gunned down in the classroom.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

With the current push to place armed police officers in schools, perhaps we should look at what's happened in schools which have already done it.

The most striking effect is that more and more children are being pushed into the criminal justice system....from the schoolhouse! Discipline problems that used to be handled in the Principal's office now become legal issues as kids are written misdemeanor citations or charged with a crime.

Not surprisingly, Texas leads the nation:

"...Such criminal charges may be most prevalent in Texas, where police officers based in schools write more than 100,000 misdemeanor tickets each year..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/12/e...&_r=0&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130412

In a speech to the Texas Legislature last month, the Chief Justice of the Texas Supreme Court put the figure at 300,000.

"...."We are criminalizing our children for nonviolent offenses," he said, offering the startling statistic that the state issues some 300,000 tickets in public schools each year..."

A Call to Arms | Texas Monthly

Do we really want to criminalize juvenile, school yard behavior? Do we really want our schools to become revenue generating centers for cash strapped cities and counties? What effect will it have on future generations who are compelled to attend schools where they are locked in and kept in line by armed cops? How is that much different from a prison? Is all that really worth defending against the highly unlikely event of an armed intrusion?

We're not talking about adults here, but children as young as elementary age.

I say no. It's not worth it.

Most of the places that I've heard the horror stories are places like Arizona and Texas. While I'm not sure that cops in schools are necessarily the greatest idea, my guess would be that these aren't necessarily as big of problems in more sensible states.

That's probably because there are no uniform statistics being accumulated nationwide. This report looks at a study done by the Universities of Maryland and Massachusetts which looked at 5 different states. You can find their conclusions beginning on page 13:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...RJUZZ7&sig=AHIEtbQvyGvkjJFEO-78pMnDpjYKqffHCg

List of school shootings in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Looks like Texas should be the least of our worries. NY is a F'n warzone.

 

[Oldguy]

you seem to be advocating school shootings rather then cops in schools.
A little extreme dont you think?
I think an adjustment in policy would be a better solution then allowing our kids to be gunned down in the classroom.

Talk about extremes! Because I don't support cops in schools means I support school shootings? How on earth did you make the leap to THAT conclusion?

 

[Agit8r]

With the current push to place armed police officers in schools, perhaps we should look at what's happened in schools which have already done it.

The most striking effect is that more and more children are being pushed into the criminal justice system....from the schoolhouse! Discipline problems that used to be handled in the Principal's office now become legal issues as kids are written misdemeanor citations or charged with a crime.

Not surprisingly, Texas leads the nation:

"...Such criminal charges may be most prevalent in Texas, where police officers based in schools write more than 100,000 misdemeanor tickets each year..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/12/e...&_r=0&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130412

In a speech to the Texas Legislature last month, the Chief Justice of the Texas Supreme Court put the figure at 300,000.

"...."We are criminalizing our children for nonviolent offenses," he said, offering the startling statistic that the state issues some 300,000 tickets in public schools each year..."

A Call to Arms | Texas Monthly

Do we really want to criminalize juvenile, school yard behavior? Do we really want our schools to become revenue generating centers for cash strapped cities and counties? What effect will it have on future generations who are compelled to attend schools where they are locked in and kept in line by armed cops? How is that much different from a prison? Is all that really worth defending against the highly unlikely event of an armed intrusion?

We're not talking about adults here, but children as young as elementary age.

I say no. It's not worth it.

Most of the places that I've heard the horror stories are places like Arizona and Texas. While I'm not sure that cops in schools are necessarily the greatest idea, my guess would be that these aren't necessarily as big of problems in more sensible states.

That's probably because there are no uniform statistics being accumulated nationwide. This report looks at a study done by the Universities of Maryland and Massachusetts which looked at 5 different states. You can find their conclusions beginning on page 13:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...RJUZZ7&sig=AHIEtbQvyGvkjJFEO-78pMnDpjYKqffHCg

I see in the notes that the five states in the study were Hawaii, Arizona, Missouri, South Carolina And West Virginia. I bet I can guess which 4 had more referrals from schools.

 

[Mad Scientist]

The sooner Gov't gets kids into the Penal system the sooner Gov't can make them Wards of the State, Medicate them and take away their Gun Rights.

As an added benefit, more Prisoners equals lots of cheap Labor for those Prisons.

It's the American way. That's what your sons and daughters are fighting and dying for in Afghanistan .

 

[Katzndogz]

The school the obama girls go to has armed guards. It's good for them.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

you seem to be advocating school shootings rather then cops in schools.
A little extreme dont you think?
I think an adjustment in policy would be a better solution then allowing our kids to be gunned down in the classroom.

Talk about extremes! Because I don't support cops in schools means I support school shootings? How on earth did you make the leap to THAT conclusion?

You have a better way to stop school shootings? Anyone who is against cops in schools is a nut job. There is no better way to address the problem.

 

[Oldguy]

you seem to be advocating school shootings rather then cops in schools.
A little extreme dont you think?
I think an adjustment in policy would be a better solution then allowing our kids to be gunned down in the classroom.

Talk about extremes! Because I don't support cops in schools means I support school shootings? How on earth did you make the leap to THAT conclusion?

You have a better way to stop school shootings? Anyone who is against cops in schools is a nut job. There is no better way to address the problem.

The threat isn't great enough to warrant turning our children into criminals to "protect" them. The likelihood of it happening at any school is infinitesimal and, admit it, you can't make schools or any other place perfectly, 100% safe all the time.

The lack of armed guards does not guarantee an attack, nor does the presence of them guarantee they won't be attacked. Columbine and Virginia Tech illustrate perfectly that armed guards are no panacea.

Schools should take reasonable precautions and be aware of the threat, but let's not jump off the deep end and turn our schools into prisons in the name of safety, shall we?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Talk about extremes! Because I don't support cops in schools means I support school shootings? How on earth did you make the leap to THAT conclusion?

You have a better way to stop school shootings? Anyone who is against cops in schools is a nut job. There is no better way to address the problem.

The threat isn't great enough to warrant turning our children into criminals to "protect" them. The likelihood of it happening at any school is infinitesimal and, admit it, you can't make schools or any other place perfectly, 100% safe all the time.

The lack of armed guards does not guarantee an attack, nor does the presence of them guarantee they won't be attacked. Columbine and Virginia Tech illustrate perfectly that armed guards are no panacea.

Schools should take reasonable precautions and be aware of the threat, but let's not jump off the deep end and turn our schools into prisons in the name of safety, shall we?

And I said it would make more sense to curb the use of our legal system for school discipline and use the cops only for protection unless an obvious crime has been committed.
As of right now cops in our schools is probably our best bet in curbing school shootings.
Because it's pretty obvious that "gun free zones" ain't gonna cut it.

 

[OODA_Loop]

So if a student commits a misdemeanor at school he shouldn't be charged ?

Example of a charged misdemeanor that should be handled by the school admin ?

 

[Oldguy]

So if a student commits a misdemeanor at school he shouldn't be charged ?

Example of a charged misdemeanor that should be handled by the school admin ?

You're damn right the cops shouldn't be involved unless it's a serious crime.

It's funny that we managed to get through a century or more of public education without cops patrolling the hallways. Why do we need them now? Kids are still just kids and schools should be a place for learning, not a place which generates fear.

Case in point: About 70% of schools do not have armed cops right now and they're no more "unsafe" than schools with cops. All of my grandkids attend schools without armed guards and, strange to say, they've never been assaulted or had a problem come up which couldn't be dealt with in the office.

 

[OODA_Loop]

So if a student commits a misdemeanor at school he shouldn't be charged ?

Example of a charged misdemeanor that should be handled by the school admin ?

You're damn right the cops shouldn't be involved unless it's a serious crime.

It's funny that we managed to get through a century or more of public education without cops patrolling the hallways. Why do we need them now? Kids are still just kids and schools should be a place for learning, not a place which generates fear.

Case in point: About 70% of schools do not have armed cops right now and they're no more "unsafe" than schools with cops. All of my grandkids attend schools without armed guards and, strange to say, they've never been assaulted or had a problem come up which couldn't be dealt with in the office.

So you have no example of a misdemeanor that should be overlooked ?

 

[Oldguy]

So if a student commits a misdemeanor at school he shouldn't be charged ?

Example of a charged misdemeanor that should be handled by the school admin ?

You're damn right the cops shouldn't be involved unless it's a serious crime.

It's funny that we managed to get through a century or more of public education without cops patrolling the hallways. Why do we need them now? Kids are still just kids and schools should be a place for learning, not a place which generates fear.

Case in point: About 70% of schools do not have armed cops right now and they're no more "unsafe" than schools with cops. All of my grandkids attend schools without armed guards and, strange to say, they've never been assaulted or had a problem come up which couldn't be dealt with in the office.

So you have no example of a misdemeanor that should be overlooked ?

How about a schoolyard fight not involving weapons? How about talking back to a teacher? How about skipping class? How about being caught smoking a cigarette out back? How about using a curse word in the hallways?

In many places, any of those things can cause a kid to be arrested, booked and fined instead of being sent to the Principal's office for a "counseling" session. Those things aren't crimes: They're discipline problems and NO school needs an armed cop enforcing discipline. That's what we hire teachers and staff to do.

 

[OODA_Loop]

In many places, any of those things can cause a kid to be arrested, booked and fined instead of being sent to the Principal's office for a "counseling" session. Those things aren't crimes: They're discipline problems and NO school needs an armed cop enforcing discipline. That's what we hire teachers and staff to do.

Link to arrests made for these ?

 

[FJO]

What would happen if the armed guard, a retired police officer suddenly and inexplicably went crazy, like a postal "worker" and started shooting up kids and teachers?

After all, a military officer of high rank went insane at a military base not so long ago.

 

[Seawytch]

Handcuffing kids?

Handcuffed 6-year-old in Georgia renews school policing debate

Wilson Reyes, 7-Year-Old Boy, Handcuffed By NYPD For Hours Over Five Dollars

Private prison systems that profit from criminal activity?

Pennsylvania rocked by 'jailing kids for cash' scandal


This is the American we want to live in?