Conspiracy theorists...

[eots]

Go ahead wade through the posts Eots has made if you can stop laughing long enough. You will find that unless he edits them, what I have said is in fat true.

IS IN FAT TRUE..IS THAT LIKE HIP HOP SLANG...ITS FAT TRUE MAN !

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/



Letter to Congress regarding the 9/11 Commission Report 9/13/04, signed by the following 25 military, intelligence, and law enforcement veterans: http://www.pogo.org/


"[W]e the undersigned wish to bring to the attention of the Congress and the people of the United States what we believe are serious shortcomings in the report and its recommendations. …

Omission is one of the major flaws in the Commission’s report. We are aware of significant issues and cases that were duly reported to the commission by those of us with direct knowledge, but somehow escaped attention. …

The omission of such serious and applicable issues and information by itself renders the report flawed, and casts doubt on the validity of many of its recommendations. ...

The Commission, with its incomplete report of "facts and circumstances", intentional avoidance of assigning accountability, and disregard for the knowledge, expertise and experience of those who actually do the job, has now set about pressuring our Congress and our nation to hastily implement all its recommendations. ...

We the undersigned, who have worked within various government agencies (FBI, CIA, FAA, DIA, Customs) responsible for national security and public safety, call upon you in Congress to include the voices of those with first-hand knowledge and expertise in the important issues at hand. We stand ready to do our part." http://www.pogo.org/


Edward J. Costello, Jr. – Former Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI. Former Judge pro tem., Los Angeles, CAA.


John M. Cole – Former Intelligence Operations Specialist, in the FBI’s Counterintelligence Division. In charge of FBI’s foreign intelligence investigations covering India, Pakistan and Afghanistan.18-year FBI career.


Mark Conrad, JD – Retired Agent in Charge, Internal Affairs, U.S. Customs, responsible for the internal integrity and security for areas encompassing nine states and two foreign locations. Former Federal Sky Marshall. 27-year U.S. Customs career. Currently Associate General Counsel, National Association of Federal Agents. Assistant Professor of Criminal Justice at Troy University.


Rosemary N. Dew – Former Supervisory Special Agent, Counterterrorism and Counterintelligence, FBI. Former member of The President's National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee (NSTAC) and the Electronic Commerce/Cyber Crime Working Group. 13-year FBI career.


Bogdan Dzakovic – Witness before the 9/11 Commission. 14-year Counter-terrorism expert in the Security Division of the Federal Aviation Administration. Team Leader of the FAA's Red (Terrorism) Team, which conducted undercover tests on airport security through simulated terrorist attacks. Former Team Leader in the Federal Air Marshal program. Former Coast Guard officer. (See also individual statement above.)


Sibel D. Edmonds – Witness before the 9/11 Commission. Former Language Translation Specialist, performing translations for counterterrorism and counterintelligence operations, FBI. (See also individual statement above.)


Steve Elson – Former Special Agent with the U.S. Navy and the FAA. Specialist in Counterterrorism, Intelligence, and Security. Twenty-two years military experience, primarily in Naval Special Warfare and nine years Federal service with the FAA and DEA. Retired Navy SEAL. (See also individual statement above.)


David Forbes – Former head of Thames Valley Police Fraud Squad, trained at New Scotland Yard. Over 30 years experience in law enforcement, commercial and industrial security-related risk management, and service sector business management. Currently Aviation, Logistics and Govt. Security Analyst, BoydForbes, Inc.


Melvin A. Goodman – Former Division Chief and Senior Analyst at the Office of Soviet Affairs, CIA,1966 - 1990. Senior Analyst at the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, State Department, 1974 - 1976. Professor of International Security at the National War College 1986 - 2004. Currently Senior Fellow at the Center for International Policy and Adjunct Professor of International Relations at Johns Hopkins University. He is the author and co-author of five books on international relations. (See also individual statement above.)


Mark Graf – Former Security Supervisor, Planner, and Derivative Classifier, Department of Energy. Former Chairman of the Rocky Flats (DOE) Physical Security Systems Working Group from 1990 through 1995.


Gilbert M. Graham – Retired Special Agent, Counterintelligence, FBI. 24-year FBI career.


Diane Kleiman – Former Special Agent, US Customs.


Lt. Col. Karen U. Kwiatkowski, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former Political-Military Affairs Officer in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Also served on the staff of the Director of the National Security Agency. 20-year Air Force veteran. (See also individual statement above.)


Lynne A. Larkin – Former CIA Operations Officer. Served in several CIA foreign stations and in the CIA's counter-intelligence center helping chair a multi-agency task force and seminars on coordinating intelligence among intelligence and crime prevention agencies.


David MacMichael, PhD – Former Senior Estimates Officer with special responsibility for Western Hemisphere Affairs at the CIA's National Intelligence Council. Former Captain, U.S. Marine Corps.


Raymond L. McGovern – Former Chairman, National Intelligence Estimates, CIA, responsible for preparing the President’ Daily Brief (PDB) for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. 27-year CIA veteran. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer. (See also individual statement above.)


Theodore J. Pahle – Former Senior Intelligence Officer with the Defense Intelligence Agency. His 37-year intelligence career was exclusively as a HUMINT (Human Intelligence) operations officer with DIA, Office of Naval Intelligence and U.S. Army Intelligence. He is a Middle East and Latin American operations specialist. Today, he continues to support the HUMINT effort as a contract instructor.


Behrooz Sarshar – Retired Language Translation Specialist, performing Farsi translations for counterterrorism and counterintelligence operations dealing with Iran and Afghanistan, FBI.


Brian F. Sullivan – Retired Special Agent and Risk Management Specialist, FAA. Retired Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police.


Commander Larry J. Tortorich, U.S. Navy (ret) – Former Deputy Program Manager for Logistics – Tomahawk Cruise Missiles. 24-year Navy career in the fields of aviation and counterterrorism. Two years as a federal employee with DHS/TSA in the fields of security and counterterrorism.


Jane A. Turner – Retired Special Agent, FBI. 24-year FBI career.


John B. Vincent – Retired Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI. 27-year FBI career.


Fred Whitehurst, JD, PhD – Retired Supervisory Special Agent / Laboratory Forensic Examiner, FBI. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer.


Col. Ann Wright, U.S. Army (ret) – Retired Army officer and former U.S. Diplomat. Served 13 years on active duty with the U.S. Army and 16 years in the U.S. Army Reserves. She was a member of the International law team in Operation Urgent Fury in Grenada and served in Panama and Somalia. She joined the Foreign Service in 1987 and served as Deputy Chief of Mission of U.S. Embassies in Sierra Leone, Micronesia and Afghanistan. She helped reopen the US Embassy in Kabul in December, 2001. One of three U.S. State Department officials to publicly resign in direct protest of the invasion of Iraq in March, 2003. (See also individual statement above.)


Matthew J. Zipoli – Special Response Team (SRT) Officer, DOE. Vice President, Security Police Officer's Association, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

 

[Steerpike]

Letter to Congress regarding the 9/11 Commission Report 9/13/04, signed by the following 25 military, intelligence, and law enforcement veterans: http://www.pogo.org/


"[W]e the undersigned wish to bring to the attention of the Congress and the people of the United States what we believe are serious shortcomings in the report and its recommendations. …

This is typical of nuts like you EOTS. I'm linking the entire letter, because it is clearly concerned with the Commission glossing over government failures that might have prevented the attacks, not directed to supporting some lunatic conspiracy theory like the ones you support.

Here's the letter for anyone who wants to see what it really says:

http://www.pogo.org/m/hsp/hsp-911commission-040913.pdf

 

[Helios]

Exactly Eots...it's an establishment propaganda piece, blah blah blah. No real comment from you. Maybe Lookout has more behind him than you do...

Your own point also applies to you, "blah blah blah" ? Is that the best answer to the real and justified claims Eots made?

You don't even consider other viewpoints at all. I read the little analysis (even though it is written by a highly questionable source) you posted completely. It's flawed logic is apparent from the beginning to the end. It opens saying that THE DOCUMENTS stored within the WTC, as well as the possible motives for the attack ARENT important in the consideration of the issue... tell me how those aren't relevant? It further claims that it's the only report about 9/11 published by explosives/demolitions experts... which is a blatant lie.

It also discounts the possibilities of explosives being used, or the multitude of eye witnesses who heard and felt them. PEOPLE WERE KNOCKED TO THE GROUND, several SECONDS before the planes hit. Let me guess, it was their overactive imagination that knocked them down?

 

[Toro]

This is typical of nuts like you EOTS. I'm linking the entire letter, because it is clearly concerned with the Commission glossing over government failures that might have prevented the attacks, not directed to supporting some lunatic conspiracy theory like the ones you support.

Here's the letter for anyone who wants to see what it really says:

http://www.pogo.org/m/hsp/hsp-911commission-040913.pdf

Its typical of the conspiracy theorists.

What the letter says is that no one is being held accountable and whistle blowers are being forward. That means nothing regarding any conspiracy theories. FFS, I think the 9/11 conspiracy theories are utter BS and I completely agree with the letter.

 

[Steerpike]

Your own point also applies to you, "blah blah blah" ? Is that the best answer to the real and justified claims Eots made?

You don't even consider other viewpoints at all. I read the little analysis (even though it is written by a highly questionable source) you posted completely. It's flawed logic is apparent from the beginning to the end. It opens saying that THE DOCUMENTS stored within the WTC, as well as the possible motives for the attack ARENT important in the consideration of the issue... tell me how those aren't relevant? It further claims that it's the only report about 9/11 published by explosives/demolitions experts... which is a blatant lie.

It also discounts the possibilities of explosives being used, or the multitude of eye witnesses who heard and felt them. PEOPLE WERE KNOCKED TO THE GROUND, several SECONDS before the planes hit. Let me guess, it was their overactive imagination that knocked them down?

The source isn't questionable just because you claim it is.

The paper is directed only at whether the planes could have brought down the buildings. The papers in the building or motives for bringing them down have nothing to do with that inquiry.

Look at the date of publication of the paper.

People weren't knocked down by explosions before the planes ever hit. Some people have claimed to have been knocked down or heard or felt explosions before the collapse, but after the planes hit. You can't even keep your own conspiracy theories straight. If there is evidence people were knocked down before the planes ever hit, then present it.

 

[Steerpike]

Its typical of the conspiracy theorists.

What the letter says is that no one is being held accountable and whistle blowers are being forward. That means nothing regarding any conspiracy theories. FFS, I think the 9/11 conspiracy theories are utter BS and I completely agree with the letter.

Yeah, I tend to agree with the letter as well. Can't help it if loons misuse it.

 

[Helios]

A little starter course for the people who have been deprived of the truth:


Created by Michael Ruppert, former FBI narcotics officer.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8797525979024486145&q=9%2F11&total=62838&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=8

Created by Aaron Russo, you might have heard of him.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173&q=america+freedom+to+facism&total=53&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0



5 questions for all of you who completely dismiss relevant evidence:

1) Why when they discovered that there were hijacked aircraft, they did not air defense deploy and take them down immediately?

2) If they are making it seem like it is very important to capture Bin Laden, why have they not done it yet? They have had plenty of chances to do this.

3) How did flames bring down THREE steal framed buildings, something that has never seen historical precedent and does not conform to the laws of physics?

4) Why if the government has nothing to hide, they are keeping a lot of the ‘evidence’ they have from public?

5) Why have government officials destroyed evidence of 9/11?

 

[Toro]

Your own point also applies to you, "blah blah blah" ? Is that the best answer to the real and justified claims Eots made?

You don't even consider other viewpoints at all. I read the little analysis (even though it is written by a highly questionable source) you posted completely.

A questionable source? Here are the authors.

http://www.implosionworld.com/about.htm

What is questionable about them?

It's flawed logic is apparent from the beginning to the end. It opens saying that THE DOCUMENTS stored within the WTC, as well as the possible motives for the attack ARENT important in the consideration of the issue... tell me how those aren't relevant?

Papers in the building or the motives for the attack are not relevant on how a building implodes unto itself or upon the seismic activity measured on the day. Political motives, for example, have no bearing on the measurement of an earthquake. Yet, you are arguing that political motives do matter when using the same process by which earthquakes are measured for detecting seismic activity on 9/11.

It further claims that it's the only report about 9/11 published by explosives/demolitions experts... which is a blatant lie.

Really? You want to show me where. Perhaps you are correct but I read the piece then skimmed the first page again and what I read was that it was the "first" not the "only" paper written by demolitions experts.

It also discounts the possibilities of explosives being used, or the multitude of eye witnesses who heard and felt them. PEOPLE WERE KNOCKED TO THE GROUND, several SECONDS before the planes hit. Let me guess, it was their overactive imagination that knocked them down?

You said you read the piece. Those answers are given in assertions 3, 4 and 5.

 

[Steerpike]

Some info from NISTs three-year or more study (including melting steel claims, etc.).

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

 

[Toro]

5 questions for all of you who completely dismiss relevant evidence:

1) Why when they discovered that there were hijacked aircraft, they did not air defense deploy and take them down immediately?

Because they didn't know they were going to slam into buildings.

Name me another time in US aviation history when the government has shot down a hijacked airplane full of US passengers.

2) If they are making it seem like it is very important to capture Bin Laden, why have they not done it yet? They have had plenty of chances to do this.

There could be many reasons, none of which have anything to do with 9/11. Reasons include the wholesale loss of life doing so when he was holed up in the Khyber Pass, he would be made a martyr, he is worth more alive to the US, etc.

3) How did flames bring down THREE steal framed buildings, something that has never seen historical precedent and does not conform to the laws of physics?

I thought you said you read the piece. The authors stated it is not unprecedented. Nor is it an accurate assertion.

4) Why if the government has nothing to hide, they are keeping a lot of the ‘evidence’ they have from public?

The greatest attack by a foreign entity on US soil in the 226 year history of the country resulting from an obvious intelligence and political failure, and its a great mystery to you that bureaucrats and politicians are trying to cover their asses? Especially when it happens on the watch of a supposedly kick-ass MFer cold-warrior, its-my-way-or-the-highway administration?

5) Why have government officials destroyed evidence of 9/11?

See answer to 4.)

 

[jillian]

A little starter course for the people who have been deprived of the truth:


Created by Michael Ruppert, former FBI narcotics officer.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8797525979024486145&q=9%2F11&total=62838&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=8

Created by Aaron Russo, you might have heard of him.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173&q=america+freedom+to+facism&total=53&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0



5 questions for all of you who completely dismiss relevant evidence:

1) Why when they discovered that there were hijacked aircraft, they did not air defense deploy and take them down immediately?

2) If they are making it seem like it is very important to capture Bin Laden, why have they not done it yet? They have had plenty of chances to do this.

3) How did flames bring down THREE steal framed buildings, something that has never seen historical precedent and does not conform to the laws of physics?

4) Why if the government has nothing to hide, they are keeping a lot of the ‘evidence’ they have from public?

5) Why have government officials destroyed evidence of 9/11?

You know, a lot of things happened that day that we'll never know about. Or at least won't know about during our lifetimes. But I hope you're not implying that planes didn't go into those buildings. I can assure you they did.

 

[Helios]

1. Because they didn't know they were going to slam into buildings.

In the year 2000, NORAD 67 successful intercepts. On the day of September 11, 2001, they fail 4 times on one day? Might it be the fact that they received over 200 fake radar blips that very morning as part of an emergency excercise?

2. Name me another time in US aviation history when the government has shot down a hijacked airplane full of US passengers.

See my comment on 1.)


3. There could be many reasons, none of which have anything to do with 9/11. Reasons include the wholesale loss of life doing so when he was holed up in the Khyber Pass, he would be made a martyr, he is worth more alive to the US, etc.

He was checked into an American hospital in Dubai for 2 weeks, and this was after he had been declared the mastermind of 9/11. He was treated by American doctors and visited by a CIA agent, then released.


4. I thought you said you read the piece. The authors stated it is not unprecedented. Nor is it an accurate assertion.

The greatest attack by a foreign entity on US soil in the 226 year history of the country resulting from an obvious intelligence and political failure, and its a great mystery to you that bureaucrats and politicians are trying to cover their asses? Especially when it happens on the watch of a supposedly kick-ass MFer cold-warrior, its-my-way-or-the-highway administration?

Not the greatest attack on U.S. soil. Try Pearl Harbor, and what's even better about PH is that it was actually carried out by the ENEMY. YES THEY ARE TRYING TO COVER THEIR ASSES, because the word has gotten out, and truth is gaining ground every day. Until an armed mob stands with shotguns and torches at their door.

 

[Helios]

You know, a lot of things happened that day that we'll never know about. Or at least won't know about during our lifetimes. But I hope you're not implying that planes didn't go into those buildings. I can assure you they did.

How was implying that? I'm guessing no one actually watched the videos on what really happened. The cycle of ignorance and ignored evidence continues...

 

[jillian]

How was implying that? I'm guessing no one actually watched the videos on what really happened. The cycle of ignorance and ignored evidence continues...

Nah... I just live here... and have at least half a dozen friends and family who ran their asses away from the buildings, a friend who took a roll of film of the second plane going over his apartment and into the tower, a husband who was there the day after getting pets watered and fed at Battery Park City and other friends who helped put out the fires and dug bodies out.

But I'm sure your little BS conspiracy sites have made you much more knowledgeable about what happened here.... NOT.

 

[Toro]

In the year 2000, NORAD 67 successful intercepts. On the day of September 11, 2001, they fail 4 times on one day? Might it be the fact that they received over 200 fake radar blips that very morning as part of an emergency excercise?

Answered

http://www.911myths.com/html/67_intercepts.html

He was checked into an American hospital in Dubai for 2 weeks, and this was after he had been declared the mastermind of 9/11. He was treated by American doctors and visited by a CIA agent, then released.

Yeah, right.

Not the greatest attack on U.S. soil. Try Pearl Harbor, and what's even better about PH is that it was actually carried out by the ENEMY. YES THEY ARE TRYING TO COVER THEIR ASSES, because the word has gotten out, and truth is gaining ground every day. Until an armed mob stands with shotguns and torches at their door.

Pretty much sums it up, I'd say.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Because they didn't know they were going to slam into buildings.

Name me another time in US aviation history when the government has shot down a hijacked airplane full of US passengers.



There could be many reasons, none of which have anything to do with 9/11. Reasons include the wholesale loss of life doing so when he was holed up in the Khyber Pass, he would be made a martyr, he is worth more alive to the US, etc.



I thought you said you read the piece. The authors stated it is not unprecedented. Nor is it an accurate assertion.



The greatest attack by a foreign entity on US soil in the 226 year history of the country resulting from an obvious intelligence and political failure, and its a great mystery to you that bureaucrats and politicians are trying to cover their asses? Especially when it happens on the watch of a supposedly kick-ass MFer cold-warrior, its-my-way-or-the-highway administration?



See answer to 4.)

Logic and reality do not work on people like this.

This guy , by the way, has just claimed on another thread , that before we invaded Iraq it had no army, airforce, navy or infrastructure.

 

[Helios]

Nah... I just live here... and have at least half a dozen friends and family who ran their asses away from the buildings, a friend who took a roll of film of the second plane going over his apartment and into the tower, a husband who was there the day after getting pets watered and fed at Battery Park City and other friends who helped put out the fires and dug bodies out.

But I'm sure your little BS conspiracy sites have made you much more knowledgeable about what happened here.... NOT.

I respect your opinion, but every man [or woman] takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world. If your standing so close to it, you see only a fraction of the truth. Thus, you do not have a complete view of the issue.

Thomas Paine:

The sublime and the ridiculous are often so nearly related, that it is difficult to class them separately. One step above the sublime makes the ridiculous, and one step above the ridiculous makes the sublime again.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I respect your opinion, but every man [or woman] takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world. If your standing so close to it, you see only a fraction of the truth. Thus, you do not have a complete view of the issue.

BUT you , of course, have a bigger picture.....

 

[Helios]

Answered

http://www.911myths.com/html/67_intercepts.html



Yeah, right.





Pretty much sums it up, I'd say.

Toro, so your reply is idiotic sarcasm, a completely unknown source that reeks of corporate propaganda from a mile away, and ignoring half the things I said?

 

[Helios]

BUT you , of course, have a bigger picture.....

Yeah, apparently I do. It's so big, you cant fit it into your skull long enough to consider it.