Consider The Facts

[Coyote]

Quote

I am not denying they are a people. I am denying they are the indigenous people.

End Quote

I sure am, Not only are the Arab Muslim colonists not an indiginous people but since palestine hasn't existed for more than about 100 years there simply isn't enough time to develop a distinct culture.

There can be no indiginous palestinians because not only is there no palestine but there is no distinct palestinian culture and even if there was that culture would have been superseded by a vastly older culture of the Judaic peoples.

The suggestion that there is a palestine or that there is a distinct palestinian culture is simply ludicrous.

By any measure the statement is entirely false.

Palestine, as an named region has existed for far more than a hundred years, and people have inhabited that region. Whatever semantical games you play - it doesn't alter the fact. They weren't transported in and plopped down 100 years ago.

History of the term Palestine: Timeline of the name "Palestine" - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[MJB12741]

Quote

I am not denying they are a people. I am denying they are the indigenous people.

End Quote

I sure am, Not only are the Arab Muslim colonists not an indiginous people but since palestine hasn't existed for more than about 100 years there simply isn't enough time to develop a distinct culture.

There can be no indiginous palestinians because not only is there no palestine but there is no distinct palestinian culture and even if there was that culture would have been superseded by a vastly older culture of the Judaic peoples.

The suggestion that there is a palestine or that there is a distinct palestinian culture is simply ludicrous.

By any measure the statement is entirely false.

Palestine, as an named region has existed for far more than a hundred years, and people have inhabited that region. Whatever semantical games you play - it doesn't alter the fact. They weren't transported in and plopped down 100 years ago.

History of the term Palestine: Timeline of the name "Palestine" - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If that is your take on the Palestinians then we must consider that Jews were there onthe land for thousands of years as a opposed to more than 100 years for Palestinians in a place called Palestine.

 

[Boston1]

Quote

I am not denying they are a people. I am denying they are the indigenous people.

End Quote

I sure am, Not only are the Arab Muslim colonists not an indiginous people but since palestine hasn't existed for more than about 100 years there simply isn't enough time to develop a distinct culture.

There can be no indiginous palestinians because not only is there no palestine but there is no distinct palestinian culture and even if there was that culture would have been superseded by a vastly older culture of the Judaic peoples.

The suggestion that there is a palestine or that there is a distinct palestinian culture is simply ludicrous.

By any measure the statement is entirely false.

Palestine, as an named region has existed for far more than a hundred years, and people have inhabited that region. Whatever semantical games you play - it doesn't alter the fact. They weren't transported in and plopped down 100 years ago.

History of the term Palestine: Timeline of the name "Palestine" - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No they weren't dropped off by aliens, they came from the Arabian peninsula as colonists and conquerers. They brought a culture from outside and have no distinct culture of their own.

However thats not really the issue. The issue is if you can explain how the Arab Muslim colonists on the east side of the Jordan have a culture distinct from the Arab Muslim colonists culture on the west.

Mind you these people have only been in the area for since at the earliest the mid 7th century. I'd also point out that the river narrows to only 100 feet or so in places and is only about 150 miles long. Not much of a geological barrier.

What is it you feel distinguishes the Arab Muslims on the west bank of the Jordan from those on the right ????????

Lets just cut to the chase. The Arab Muslims in the mandate area already have 75% of the land area and have no reason to demand more other than basic greed

 

[Coyote]

Quote

I am not denying they are a people. I am denying they are the indigenous people.

End Quote

I sure am, Not only are the Arab Muslim colonists not an indiginous people but since palestine hasn't existed for more than about 100 years there simply isn't enough time to develop a distinct culture.

There can be no indiginous palestinians because not only is there no palestine but there is no distinct palestinian culture and even if there was that culture would have been superseded by a vastly older culture of the Judaic peoples.

The suggestion that there is a palestine or that there is a distinct palestinian culture is simply ludicrous.

By any measure the statement is entirely false.

Palestine, as an named region has existed for far more than a hundred years, and people have inhabited that region. Whatever semantical games you play - it doesn't alter the fact. They weren't transported in and plopped down 100 years ago.

History of the term Palestine: Timeline of the name "Palestine" - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If that is your take on the Palestinians then we must consider that Jews were there onthe land for thousands of years as a opposed to more than 100 years for Palestinians in a place called Palestine.

Many Jews, as well as many of the people currently referred to as "Palestinians" have been there for thousands of years.

 

[Coyote]

Quote

I am not denying they are a people. I am denying they are the indigenous people.

End Quote

I sure am, Not only are the Arab Muslim colonists not an indiginous people but since palestine hasn't existed for more than about 100 years there simply isn't enough time to develop a distinct culture.

There can be no indiginous palestinians because not only is there no palestine but there is no distinct palestinian culture and even if there was that culture would have been superseded by a vastly older culture of the Judaic peoples.

The suggestion that there is a palestine or that there is a distinct palestinian culture is simply ludicrous.

By any measure the statement is entirely false.

Palestine, as an named region has existed for far more than a hundred years, and people have inhabited that region. Whatever semantical games you play - it doesn't alter the fact. They weren't transported in and plopped down 100 years ago.

History of the term Palestine: Timeline of the name "Palestine" - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No they weren't dropped off by aliens, they came from the Arabian peninsula as colonists and conquerers. They brought a culture from outside and have no distinct culture of their own.

However thats not really the issue. The issue is if you can explain how the Arab Muslim colonists on the east side of the Jordan have a culture distinct from the Arab Muslim colonists culture on the west.

Mind you these people have only been in the area for since at the earliest the mid 7th century. I'd also point out that the river narrows to only 100 feet or so in places and is only about 150 miles long. Not much of a geological barrier.

What is it you feel distinguished the Arab Muslims on the west bank of the Jordan than those on the right ????????

Lets just cut to the chase. The Arab Muslims in the mandate area already have 75% of the land area and have no reason to demand more other than basic greed

Some came from the Arabian Peninsula, many did not but were already indiginous there.

 

[Coyote]

i-n-d-i-g-e-n-o-u-s

I'm a lousy speller.

Is that a problem for you?

 

[Shusha]

i-n-d-i-g-e-n-o-u-s

I'm a lousy speller.

Is that a problem for you?

Yeah, I can be a bit of an ass when it comes to people repeatedly spelling things incorrectly. I give a pass when its unintentional, but I'll usually call you on it if the same mistake is made over and over and over. No offense intended.

 

[Shusha]

I sure am, Not only are the Arab Muslim colonists not an indiginous people but since palestine hasn't existed for more than about 100 years there simply isn't enough time to develop a distinct culture.

There can be no indiginous palestinians because not only is there no palestine but there is no distinct palestinian culture and even if there was that culture would have been superseded by a vastly older culture of the Judaic peoples.

The suggestion that there is a palestine or that there is a distinct palestinian culture is simply ludicrous.

By any measure the statement is entirely false.

We agree.

BUT being indigenous, or even having a distinct culture, are not the only criteria for self-determination.

We both agree that absorbing a hostile population is a bad idea. You say deport them. I say negotiate with them. That is the extent of our disagreement with each other.

The only reason I have a finger in this pie is to challenge the notion that the Jewish people are invaders and colonists in our own land. That idea needs to stop making its rounds on the internet.

 

[Coyote]

I sure am, Not only are the Arab Muslim colonists not an indiginous people but since palestine hasn't existed for more than about 100 years there simply isn't enough time to develop a distinct culture.

There can be no indiginous palestinians because not only is there no palestine but there is no distinct palestinian culture and even if there was that culture would have been superseded by a vastly older culture of the Judaic peoples.

The suggestion that there is a palestine or that there is a distinct palestinian culture is simply ludicrous.

By any measure the statement is entirely false.

We agree.

BUT being indigenous, or even having a distinct culture, are not the only criteria for self-determination.

We both agree that absorbing a hostile population is a bad idea. You say deport them. I say negotiate with them. That is the extent of our disagreement with each other.

The only reason I have a finger in this pie is to challenge the notion that the Jewish people are invaders and colonists in our own land. That idea needs to stop making its rounds on the internet.

I don't think EITHER is colonist or invader and I think the idea that the Palestinians are should also stop. They aren't colonists. They aren't squatters. It does nothing to solve the problem except turning it into a food fight who's main goal is to disenfrancise the other.

 

[Boston1]

i-n-d-i-g-e-n-o-u-s

I'm a lousy speller.

Is that a problem for you?

No worries, English is a difficult language.

The deal is you have yet to substantiate your claim that there is some difference between the Arab Mulsim colonists existing ( according to you ) within 100 feet or so of each other for all of known history, are somehow a distinctive cultural group deserving of some homeland, particularly carved out of Israel rather than Jordan.

My contention is there is absolutely not a shred of science to support your view.

The Arab Muslim colonists on the east bank of the Jordan in no way different from the Arab Muslim colonists on the west side ( about 100' away ).

Ergo the Arab Muslim colonists within the mandated area already have a state. A 75% stake actually within the mandated area, the Judaic peope, 25%. The two state solution

So how is a third or actually a fourth ( if you include Gaza ) state solution going to help ?

And why should any additional states be carved out of the 25% of the mandate awarded to Israel rather than the 75% awarded to the Arab Muslim colonists.

 

[aris2chat]

i-n-d-i-g-e-n-o-u-s

I'm a lousy speller.

Is that a problem for you?

No worries, English is a difficult language.

The deal is you have yet to substantiate your claim that there is some difference between the Arab Mulsim colonists within 100 feet or so of each other, are somehow a distinctive cultural group deserving of some homeland, particularly carved out of Israel rather than Jordan.

My contention is there is absolutely not a shred of science to support your view.

The Arab Muslim colonists on the east bank of the Jordan area in no way different from the Arab Muslim colonists on the west side.

Ergo the Arab Muslim colonists within the mandated area already have a state. A 75% stake actually within the mandated area, the Judaic peope, 25%. The two state solution

So how is a third of actually a fourth state going to help ?

Myths & Facts

 

[P F Tinmore]

i-n-d-i-g-e-n-o-u-s

I'm a lousy speller.

Is that a problem for you?

No worries, English is a difficult language.

The deal is you have yet to substantiate your claim that there is some difference between the Arab Mulsim colonists existing ( according to you ) within 100 feet or so of each other for all of known history, are somehow a distinctive cultural group deserving of some homeland, particularly carved out of Israel rather than Jordan.

My contention is there is absolutely not a shred of science to support your view.

The Arab Muslim colonists on the east bank of the Jordan in no way different from the Arab Muslim colonists on the west side ( about 100' away ).

Ergo the Arab Muslim colonists within the mandated area already have a state. A 75% stake actually within the mandated area, the Judaic peope, 25%. The two state solution

So how is a third or actually a fourth ( if you include Gaza ) state solution going to help ?

And why should any additional states be carved out of the 25% of the mandate awarded to Israel rather than the 75% awarded to the Arab Muslim colonists.

The Arab Muslim colonists on the east bank of the Jordan in no way different from the Arab Muslim colonists on the west side ( about 100' away ).​

Sure they are. The people in the East of the Jordan are citizens of Jordan. The people in the West of the Jordan are citizens of Palestine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Quote

I am not denying they are a people. I am denying they are the indigenous people.

End Quote

I sure am, Not only are the Arab Muslim colonists not an indiginous people but since palestine hasn't existed for more than about 100 years there simply isn't enough time to develop a distinct culture.

There can be no indiginous palestinians because not only is there no palestine but there is no distinct palestinian culture and even if there was that culture would have been superseded by a vastly older culture of the Judaic peoples.

The suggestion that there is a palestine or that there is a distinct palestinian culture is simply ludicrous.

By any measure the statement is entirely false.

Palestine, as an named region has existed for far more than a hundred years, and people have inhabited that region. Whatever semantical games you play - it doesn't alter the fact. They weren't transported in and plopped down 100 years ago.

History of the term Palestine: Timeline of the name "Palestine" - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No they weren't dropped off by aliens, they came from the Arabian peninsula as colonists and conquerers. They brought a culture from outside and have no distinct culture of their own.

However thats not really the issue. The issue is if you can explain how the Arab Muslim colonists on the east side of the Jordan have a culture distinct from the Arab Muslim colonists culture on the west.

Mind you these people have only been in the area for since at the earliest the mid 7th century. I'd also point out that the river narrows to only 100 feet or so in places and is only about 150 miles long. Not much of a geological barrier.

What is it you feel distinguishes the Arab Muslims on the west bank of the Jordan from those on the right ????????

Lets just cut to the chase. The Arab Muslims in the mandate area already have 75% of the land area and have no reason to demand more other than basic greed

The issue is if you can explain how the Arab Muslims blah, blah, blah​

What about the Arab Christians? You never mention them.

 

[Boston1]

List one single other instance where geographical location was ever used to distinguish cultural differences between colonial groups from the same culture.

English colonists in India for instance, were they any different than English colonists in say Australia in terms of culture ?

And mind you those two colonial groups were thousands of miles apart. the Arab Muslim colonists in the mandated area were separated by no more than about 100' of river maybe 10' deep ;--)

 

[MJB12741]

i-n-d-i-g-e-n-o-u-s

I'm a lousy speller.

Is that a problem for you?

No worries, English is a difficult language.

The deal is you have yet to substantiate your claim that there is some difference between the Arab Mulsim colonists existing ( according to you ) within 100 feet or so of each other for all of known history, are somehow a distinctive cultural group deserving of some homeland, particularly carved out of Israel rather than Jordan.

My contention is there is absolutely not a shred of science to support your view.

The Arab Muslim colonists on the east bank of the Jordan in no way different from the Arab Muslim colonists on the west side ( about 100' away ).

Ergo the Arab Muslim colonists within the mandated area already have a state. A 75% stake actually within the mandated area, the Judaic peope, 25%. The two state solution

So how is a third or actually a fourth ( if you include Gaza ) state solution going to help ?

And why should any additional states be carved out of the 25% of the mandate awarded to Israel rather than the 75% awarded to the Arab Muslim colonists.

Unless & until Palestinian leadership accepts the fact that Israel is there to stay, threre will no peace & no reason for peace negotiations.

 

[Coyote]

i-n-d-i-g-e-n-o-u-s

I'm a lousy speller.

Is that a problem for you?

No worries, English is a difficult language.

The deal is you have yet to substantiate your claim that there is some difference between the Arab Mulsim colonists existing ( according to you ) within 100 feet or so of each other for all of known history, are somehow a distinctive cultural group deserving of some homeland, particularly carved out of Israel rather than Jordan.

My contention is there is absolutely not a shred of science to support your view.

There is nothing that says a people must be "unique" to be deserving of a nation. Nothing. I can point out multiple examples of nations where there is little unique difference between inhabitants. I think that is a distraction.

The reason it should be, as you like to put it "carved out of Israel" is that that is there native land.

Your solution is mass expulsions. Sounds familiar doesn't it?

How will you accomplish that?

The Arab Muslim colonists on the east bank of the Jordan in no way different from the Arab Muslim colonists on the west side ( about 100' away ).

Ergo the Arab Muslim colonists within the mandated area already have a state. A 75% stake actually within the mandated area, the Judaic peope, 25%. The two state solution

So how is a third or actually a fourth ( if you include Gaza ) state solution going to help ?

And why should any additional states be carved out of the 25% of the mandate awarded to Israel rather than the 75% awarded to the Arab Muslim colonists.

Actually, the Palestinians do have their own unique cultural aspects that differentiate them from other Arabicized cultures (I posted that earlier).

What do you propose to do with Gaza? No way to hook it up to any of the West Bank while meeting Israel's needs for security and both their needs for continuity.

 

[Coyote]

i-n-d-i-g-e-n-o-u-s

I'm a lousy speller.

Is that a problem for you?

No worries, English is a difficult language.

The deal is you have yet to substantiate your claim that there is some difference between the Arab Mulsim colonists existing ( according to you ) within 100 feet or so of each other for all of known history, are somehow a distinctive cultural group deserving of some homeland, particularly carved out of Israel rather than Jordan.

My contention is there is absolutely not a shred of science to support your view.

The Arab Muslim colonists on the east bank of the Jordan in no way different from the Arab Muslim colonists on the west side ( about 100' away ).

Ergo the Arab Muslim colonists within the mandated area already have a state. A 75% stake actually within the mandated area, the Judaic peope, 25%. The two state solution

So how is a third or actually a fourth ( if you include Gaza ) state solution going to help ?

And why should any additional states be carved out of the 25% of the mandate awarded to Israel rather than the 75% awarded to the Arab Muslim colonists.

Unless & until Palestinian leadership accepts the fact that Israel is there to stay, threre will no peace & no reason for peace negotiations.

I agree. And I would add to that that unless the Israeli leadership accepts the Palestinians are there to stay, there will be no peace nor reason for negotiations. As Netanyahu said: no Palestinian state ever.

 

[Shusha]

The reason it should be, as you like to put it "carved out of Israel" is that that is there native land.

Its the Jewish people's native land as well. When can we be done carving? At what point does the carving stop?

Actually, the Palestinians do have their own unique cultural aspects that differentiate them from other Arabicized cultures (I posted that earlier).

I'm not at all convinced that you demonstrated any difference between Palestinians as distinct from Jordanians.

What do you propose to do with Gaza? No way to hook it up to any of the West Bank while meeting Israel's needs for security and both their needs for continuity.

Gaza sort of took care of that itself by electing Hamas. But there is no "need" for contiguity. Or Alaska should be in Canada.

 

[Boston1]

i-n-d-i-g-e-n-o-u-s

I'm a lousy speller.

Is that a problem for you?

No worries, English is a difficult language.

The deal is you have yet to substantiate your claim that there is some difference between the Arab Mulsim colonists existing ( according to you ) within 100 feet or so of each other for all of known history, are somehow a distinctive cultural group deserving of some homeland, particularly carved out of Israel rather than Jordan.

My contention is there is absolutely not a shred of science to support your view.

There is nothing that says a people must be "unique" to be deserving of a nation. Nothing. I can point out multiple examples of nations where there is little unique difference between inhabitants. I think that is a distraction.

The reason it should be, as you like to put it "carved out of Israel" is that that is there native land.

Your solution is mass expulsions. Sounds familiar doesn't it?

How will you accomplish that?

The Arab Muslim colonists on the east bank of the Jordan in no way different from the Arab Muslim colonists on the west side ( about 100' away ).

Ergo the Arab Muslim colonists within the mandated area already have a state. A 75% stake actually within the mandated area, the Judaic peope, 25%. The two state solution

So how is a third or actually a fourth ( if you include Gaza ) state solution going to help ?

And why should any additional states be carved out of the 25% of the mandate awarded to Israel rather than the 75% awarded to the Arab Muslim colonists.

Actually, the Palestinians do have their own unique cultural aspects that differentiate them from other Arabicized cultures (I posted that earlier).

What do you propose to do with Gaza? No way to hook it up to any of the West Bank while meeting Israel's needs for security and both their needs for continuity.

I wouldn't "do" anything with Gaza, Israel already relinquished that part of its land to the Arab Muslim colonists and I can't imagine they'd want ti back. Particularly after building such a nice fence around it ;--)

As for the Arab Muslim colonists in Judea and Samaria I'd expel only those that weren't legitimate refugees.

I'd refer you to the Geneva conventions to determine who those are. In the case of the Arab Muslim colonists I'd suggest that descendant of combatants, or those suspected or actually supporting combatants do not qualify as refugees. As such they are illegally occupying an area intended for the creation of a Jewish national homeland and may be expelled to their countries of origin. In this case Jordan.

The simple and judicial application of law would see every violent act by the Arab Muslim colonists followed by a few hundred deportations as well as home demolitions. Every single person who knew the terrorist should be evaluated for having lent assisted or even speaking in favor of the terrorist act.

See art 5 IV Geneva convention

Quote

• Art. 5 Where in the territory of a Party to the conflict, the latter is satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State, such individual person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges under the present Convention as would, if exercised in the favour of such individual person, be prejudicial to the security of such State.
• Where in occupied territory an individual protected person is detained as a spy or saboteur, or as a person under definite suspicion of activity hostile to the security of the Occupying Power, such person shall, in those cases where absolute military security so requires, be regarded as having forfeited rights of communication under the present Convention.

End Quote

 

[Coyote]

i-n-d-i-g-e-n-o-u-s

I'm a lousy speller.

Is that a problem for you?

No worries, English is a difficult language.

The deal is you have yet to substantiate your claim that there is some difference between the Arab Mulsim colonists existing ( according to you ) within 100 feet or so of each other for all of known history, are somehow a distinctive cultural group deserving of some homeland, particularly carved out of Israel rather than Jordan.

My contention is there is absolutely not a shred of science to support your view.

There is nothing that says a people must be "unique" to be deserving of a nation. Nothing. I can point out multiple examples of nations where there is little unique difference between inhabitants. I think that is a distraction.

The reason it should be, as you like to put it "carved out of Israel" is that that is there native land.

Your solution is mass expulsions. Sounds familiar doesn't it?

How will you accomplish that?

The Arab Muslim colonists on the east bank of the Jordan in no way different from the Arab Muslim colonists on the west side ( about 100' away ).

Ergo the Arab Muslim colonists within the mandated area already have a state. A 75% stake actually within the mandated area, the Judaic peope, 25%. The two state solution

So how is a third or actually a fourth ( if you include Gaza ) state solution going to help ?

And why should any additional states be carved out of the 25% of the mandate awarded to Israel rather than the 75% awarded to the Arab Muslim colonists.

Actually, the Palestinians do have their own unique cultural aspects that differentiate them from other Arabicized cultures (I posted that earlier).

What do you propose to do with Gaza? No way to hook it up to any of the West Bank while meeting Israel's needs for security and both their needs for continuity.

I wouldn't "do" anything with Gaza, Israel already relinquished that part of its land to the Arab Muslim colonists and I can't imagine they'd want ti back. Particularly after building such a nice fence around it ;--)

As for the Arab Muslim colonists in Judea and Samaria I'd expel only those that weren't legitimate refugees.

Let's get this part straight first. You would expel Muslim inhabitents of West Bank even though they'd lived there for generations - hundreds if not thousands of years?