Conservatives don't know what insurance is or what insurance companies do.

[The Derp]

Premium's will only go down with plans that have a lot less coverage and you taking more of a personal responsibility.

But not really...because insurance companies have a profit-motive that guides every single decision they make. So while the premiums may go down on these plans, the out-of-pocket costs (deductibles, co-insurance, co-pays) go up. What does "personal responsibility" mean in your context? Paying more out-of-pocket? How does that save patients money? Seems, if anything, it will cost them more.

 

[debbiedowner]

So you have obamacare that has cost a trillion or so, but was helped being funded by the taxes that were attached to it and every insurance company paying a tax on each exchange they wrote.

So you have trumpcare pending legislation that wants states to set up risk pools funded by the Federal government. But also in this legislation it's taking all those taxes away and still giving out tax credits. So how much debt do you suppose the proposed trumpcare is going to cost without the taxes and still giving the tax credits?

If anyone can think of a way to reduce the federal costs you better tell congress and senate because these guys don't have a clue. You will still be in the same boat, trillion's being added to the debt.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

I'd say it's you who does not know what insurance is. Insurance is an assumption of risk by one party on behalf of another. Forcing coverage for damages that have in fact already occurred is not assumption of risk, but forced charitable contribution for a past occurrence. Call such a program what you will, but it is not insurance.

So of course, that's not what health insurance is at all. You say it's an assumption of risk...who's risk? Not the patient, not the provider, just the insurer's risk to their profit margins. That's what you guys always leave out. The only reason insurance premiums go up is because insurers have a profit motive. Nothing they do has any positive influence on the care you receive. So when you say "assumption of risk", that's just a teabaggery way of saying "protecting the profits of insurers at the expense of your health" because that is the risk we are talking about. The risk to insurance company profits.

So try again, moron. Everything you say belies the fatal flaw that you have no ******* clue of that which you speak.

Ignorance has a way of flailing about wildly. You're awful good at it, I see. Flail away.

 

[debbiedowner]

Premium's will only go down with plans that have a lot less coverage and you taking more of a personal responsibility.

But not really...because insurance companies have a profit-motive that guides every single decision they make. So while the premiums may go down on these plans, the out-of-pocket costs (deductibles, co-insurance, co-pays) go up. What does "personal responsibility" mean in your context? Paying more out-of-pocket? How does that save patients money? Seems, if anything, it will cost them more.

Personal responsibility in my context means you pay more out of pocket, quite a bit more. You cannot lower premiums with a $5000 deductible, $20 copay to pcp, $50 to specialist, drug copays and so on. If you gave up your copays which most people cannot even remember there weren't any 25 years ago and paid the first $5000 then 80/20 up to a moop of $10000, then the posibility exists of lower premium's. Or a straight cat plan with high deductible and a lifetime max of 1 million = lower premiums.

 

[PredFan]

This much is clear in the reform they have finally proposed, after a 7 year wait. Their bill does nothing to increase coverage or make coverage any more affordable. In fact, their bill would make coverage less affordable because it eliminates the federal protections for pre-existing conditions, turning it over to the states...because I guess people get a different kind of breast cancer in Oklahoma than they do in Massachusetts?

You ass has been handed to you multiple times but you still come back for more?

You aren't smart enough I guess to understand that there is a difference between one group of people, those who may have pre-existing conditions, who might have to pay more and the overall average premiums which will
go down. To your tiny little over stressed brain, one group equals all groups.

Dumbass.

Premium's will only go down with plans that have a lot less coverage and you taking more of a personal responsibility.

Only partly true. I'd have preferred eliminating 0bamacare altogether and not replacing it with anything. Have everyone return to being responsible for their healthcare.

 

[sealybobo]

This much is clear in the reform they have finally proposed, after a 7 year wait. Their bill does nothing to increase coverage or make coverage any more affordable. In fact, their bill would make coverage less affordable because it eliminates the federal protections for pre-existing conditions, turning it over to the states...because I guess people get a different kind of breast cancer in Oklahoma than they do in Massachusetts?

Republicans act like they'll never get sick and they'll never get old.

 

[The Derp]

If anyone can think of a way to reduce the federal costs you better tell congress and senate because these guys don't have a clue. You will still be in the same boat, trillion's being added to the debt.

Thing is, everyone already knows what the solution is; single payer. It's just that some have a purely ideological opposition to it, even though the economic arguments for it prevail every time. That was the genius of Obamacare; it shows how stupid and costly having for-profit health insurance is.

 

[The Derp]

Ignorance has a way of flailing about wildly. You're awful good at it, I see. Flail away.

Precisely...which is why the GOP's Obamacare "replacement" sucks. And I am god awful at ignorance, thanks. I'm not someone who puts people on ignore just because I can't win an argument against them. That's purely a Conservative thing.

 

[miketx]

This much is clear in the reform they have finally proposed, after a 7 year wait. Their bill does nothing to increase coverage or make coverage any more affordable. In fact, their bill would make coverage less affordable because it eliminates the federal protections for pre-existing conditions, turning it over to the states...because I guess people get a different kind of breast cancer in Oklahoma than they do in Massachusetts?

Tell us about the bill. be specific.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

This much is clear in the reform they have finally proposed, after a 7 year wait. Their bill does nothing to increase coverage or make coverage any more affordable. In fact, their bill would make coverage less affordable because it eliminates the federal protections for pre-existing conditions, turning it over to the states...because I guess people get a different kind of breast cancer in Oklahoma than they do in Massachusetts?

This much is clear in the reform they have finally proposed, after a 7 year wait. Their bill does nothing to increase coverage or make coverage any more affordable. In fact, their bill would make coverage less affordable because it eliminates the federal protections for pre-existing conditions, turning it over to the states...because I guess people get a different kind of breast cancer in Oklahoma than they do in Massachusetts?

Yo, move to California or New York, those Socialist Democrat Governments will pick up the tab!!! There is only about 16 States you can choose from who have a Socialist Democrat Government, Good Luck!!!

"GTP"
View attachment 124746

How do you like paying for the coal miners health care all your working life? Well, you have been and to this day, you pay for it..Now ***** about that..

Yes we do and well we have to since the corps aren't. We don't seem to hold the corps accountable for much in this country and with Trump easing regs soon they will be allowed to do whatever they chose. We also support them with state and fed tax cuts.

You have to remember Insurance company s that insure your life are betting you are going to live. You on the other hand are betting you are going to die soon....

 

[The Derp]

Personal responsibility in my context means you pay more out of pocket, quite a bit more. You cannot lower premiums with a $5000 deductible, $20 copay to pcp, $50 to specialist, drug copays and so on. If you gave up your copays which most people cannot even remember there weren't any 25 years ago and paid the first $5000 then 80/20 up to a moop of $10000, then the posibility exists of lower premium's. Or a straight cat plan with high deductible and a lifetime max of 1 million = lower premiums.

All of what you described above was the system that was in place before Obamacare was even contemplated. The reason for Obamacare was specifically because what you described above led to 60% of all bankruptcies with the average Medical debt being about $17K per bankrupted.

Rather than pay for all that shit, wouldn't it be a lot more economical to have a single payer funded by a flat payroll tax so that way everyone -businesses and individuals- didn't have to worry about coverage? It costs about $17k per employee to provide employer-provided care. $5k of that is paid by the employee and the remainder paid by the employer. For a business of 50 employees, that's $600K a year! Wouldn't it make much more sense to not have to burden employers with that and instead put in a modest 6-7% tax on income to expand Medicare to everyone? Under Bernie Sanders' single-payer proposal, a business would pay 6.2% of its income toward Medicare-for-all. Most small businesses barely clear $400k in income. It would take a small business to generate roughly $9.5 million in income to pay in taxes what they currently pay now to insure their workers. The only small businesses making that much income are hedge funds and financial services...in which case, **** those guys. **** them in their asses.

 

[The Derp]

Only partly true. I'd have preferred eliminating 0bamacare altogether and not replacing it with anything. Have everyone return to being responsible for their healthcare.

So what happens if you get cancer and can't afford the treatment? You die?

 

[The Derp]

Republicans act like they'll never get sick and they'll never get old.

Don'tcha know Trump is the pinnacle of health? His own personal doctor even said so, so you know it's true!

 

[The Derp]

Tell us about the bill. be specific.

What do you want to know? That it wipes out federal protections against pre-existing conditions? That it spikes the deficit and debt because it offers credits without the taxes to pay for them? That it will not lead to one more person gaining insurance coverage? That it eliminates the federal health insurance exchanges where consumers can go to compare plans, like employers do with the SHOP marketplace? That it cuts $80B out of Medicaid a year?

Or that it was sloppily cobbled together last-minute despite 7 ******* years of voting to repeal Obamacare 60+ times? Seriously, seven years is a long, long time. It's the same amount of time Brad Pitt spent in Tibet! You mean to tell me that Conservatives weren't using those 7 years constructively to come up with a viable replacement? How come? Are they just poseurs?

 

[The Derp]

You have to remember Insurance company s that insure your life are betting you are going to live. You on the other hand are betting you are going to die soon....

Health insurance and life insurance are two different things, regulated differently.

 

[PredFan]

Only partly true. I'd have preferred eliminating 0bamacare altogether and not replacing it with anything. Have everyone return to being responsible for their healthcare.

So what happens if you get cancer and can't afford the treatment? You die?

 

[debbiedowner]

Personal responsibility in my context means you pay more out of pocket, quite a bit more. You cannot lower premiums with a $5000 deductible, $20 copay to pcp, $50 to specialist, drug copays and so on. If you gave up your copays which most people cannot even remember there weren't any 25 years ago and paid the first $5000 then 80/20 up to a moop of $10000, then the posibility exists of lower premium's. Or a straight cat plan with high deductible and a lifetime max of 1 million = lower premiums.

All of what you described above was the system that was in place before Obamacare was even contemplated. The reason for Obamacare was specifically because what you described above led to 60% of all bankruptcies with the average Medical debt being about $17K per bankrupted.

Rather than pay for all that shit, wouldn't it be a lot more economical to have a single payer funded by a flat payroll tax so that way everyone -businesses and individuals- didn't have to worry about coverage? It costs about $17k per employee to provide employer-provided care. $5k of that is paid by the employee and the remainder paid by the employer. For a business of 50 employees, that's $600K a year! Wouldn't it make much more sense to not have to burden employers with that and instead put in a modest 6-7% tax on income to expand Medicare to everyone? Under Bernie Sanders' single-payer proposal, a business would pay 6.2% of its income toward Medicare-for-all. Most small businesses barely clear $400k in income. It would take a small business to generate roughly $9.5 million in income to pay in taxes what they currently pay now to insure their workers. The only small businesses making that much income are hedge funds and financial services...in which case, **** those guys. **** them in their asses.

No the American public was spoiled long before obamacare with low copays and deductible's.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Ignorance has a way of flailing about wildly. You're awful good at it, I see. Flail away.

Precisely...which is why the GOP's Obamacare "replacement" sucks. And I am god awful at ignorance, thanks. I'm not someone who puts people on ignore just because I can't win an argument against them. That's purely a Conservative thing.

I'm certainly not ignoring you. You're a marginally interesting case study.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Only partly true. I'd have preferred eliminating 0bamacare altogether and not replacing it with anything. Have everyone return to being responsible for their healthcare.

So what happens if you get cancer and can't afford the treatment? You die?

What happens if you meet a lion and have no spear?

 

[The Derp]

View attachment 125798

Soooo...yes? If a person cannot afford treatment, you think that person should just die?